From the start, I readily suspected that Malygos Miracle would return to fill the role of post-nerfed Leeroy Jenkins, but a couple days ago on a post from GosuGamers (full article) and through a little experimentation of my own, I found that the Southsea Deckhand used as a finisher was pretty viable, too. Both have their trade-offs, which I'll explain here in case you're not aware of them.
This one can be devastating for your opponent if you make it to turn 9/10 and (Preparation) + Conceal him, but that's the main issue with this build in my opinion; so many Midrange and Aggro decks can roll you over by this point of the game. It's also reliant on having the Sinister Strikes or other direct damage you likely burnt as removal earlier on into the game in your hand, which seem like they'd be dead cards most of the game if you draw them early (granted, you could feed them to Gadgetzan Auctioneer, but that removes most of the burst potential with Malygos). Some interesting combos include having 6+ damage Blade Flurry's, 8+ damage Sinister Strikes, and 9+ damage Eviscerates. If anyone is willing to convince me more with this build, let me know as a response!
The one that caught me by surprise after reading through some decklists a couple days ago. The main goal with this build is to finish your opponent with a 20 damage turn 8/10 combo: Wicked Knife + Southsea Deckhand + x2 Cold Blood + Faceless Manipulator for 20 burst damage onto the face. Comparing this to Leeroy Jenkins and being able to do an extra 6 damage in one turn before with Leeroy + x2 Shadowstep + Cold Blood makes using the Deckhand almost just as good. Now, the problem with this build is that the 2 Cold Bloods are often going to be dead draws unless you're able to combo them onto a minion that can attack the turn you play it, or feed them onto the Gadgetzan Auctioneer to get your draws flowing. the single Faceless Manipulator and Southsea Deckhand can also be rather dead draws, too until you can finish the opponent, so only including 1 of each reduces the chance of getting bad hands.
I'd recommend playing this variation over the other two for laddering after nerf day due to it's shear consistency and no reliance on a win condition. :]
If anyone has more ideas for the potential future of Miracle Rogue, feel free to share them in this thread!
There are other iterations as well, for instance some of us are still using Shadowstep with Arcane Golem and Cold Blood + Faceless Manipulator for T9 16 burst or T10 24 burst damage off the combo and having more modular use of the combo pieces with Shadowstep being used on other minions having the burst damage from Cold Blood or Cold Blood being used on other minions and having the Shadowsteps for burst. Sometimes just Arcane Golem can get there with the 3 mana difference amounting to a Cold Blood and an Eviscerate to make up the lost damage.
The Southsea Deckhand version has the fastest fundamental turn, but Coldblood is inflexible and that can be a problem when you're trying to incrementally win the game. Your deck isn't limited to just 1 copy of Faceless Manipulator and Southsea Deckhand, I actually use 2 copies of both because I find them rather useful as removal or at stealing taunts and win conditions etc.
There are other iterations as well, for instance some of us are still using Shadowstep with Arcane Golem and Cold Blood + Faceless Manipulator for T9 16 burst or T10 24 burst damage off the combo and having more modular use of the combo pieces with Shadowstep being used on other minions having the burst damage from Cold Blood or Cold Blood being used on other minions and having the Shadowsteps for burst. Sometimes just Arcane Golem can get there with the 3 mana difference amounting to a Cold Blood and an Eviscerate to make up the lost damage.
The Southsea Deckhand version has the fastest fundamental turn, but Coldblood is inflexible and that can be a problem when you're trying to incrementally win the game. Your deck isn't limited to just 1 copy of Faceless Manipulator and Southsea Deckhand, I actually use 2 copies of both because I find them rather useful as removal or at stealing taunts and win conditions etc.
Yeah, I can see potential in adding in the second Deckhand and Faceless; I'll just wait and see where Miracle goes in the competitive scene after the Leeroy nerf. [:
Removing/nerfing Leeroy from Miracle, has in my opinion, just changed the win condition.
Indeed. I still think that the Southsea Deckhand will prove the most reliable/powerful win condition post-Leeroy Jenkins nerf. (Probably better than running no win condition at all, as you noted.)
Call me crazy, but I'm thinking of sticking with Leeroy Jenkins. Instead of switching him out, I'm adding in an Alexstrasza. This is obviously pretty weak against Paladin, which can use Lay on Hands/Guardian of Kings to heal him afterwards, but most people won't be expecting Alex in Miracle Rogue decks. A couple of pro's: I don't need to put any burn, like eviscerate, on the opponent's hero. Instead I can use it all on the opponent's board, since Alex will do around 10-15 damage to bring him down to 15hp. The turn after I'll play Leeroy + Shadowstep + Cold Blood to finish him off for 16 damage. I'm trying this list right now and I've been having pretty good results in a lot of matchups. I'll test a little more, though. I have to thank Firebat for giving me the idea of running Alex in Miracle, btw. Credit is where it's due.
I've also been interested in where people take Miracle with Alexstrasza in the list. We'll see after nerf day if this variation vastly catches on into the competitive scene!
Alexstraza is reasonable, for the most part tho' I think it's just a question of how people plan to offset the total burst damage in the deck, cards like Alextraza and Faceless Manipulator are doing more or less the same thing as a part of a combo but both have their own individual utility as well.
You don't necessarily have to abandon Leeroy, he's still pretty good damage output with Shadowstep even if you can only get one in. There are also some cool but slower versions that use both Alexstraza and Malygos and I've seen some really crazy people just drop Magma Giants. The engine is still intact, we just need to reconsider how we end the game.
What I don't like about the Deckhand version tho' is how necesarry keeping Cold Blood in your hand for the combo is, like pre-nerf Miracle I always thought it was really important for every piece of the deck to be pretty modular. The question should probably be do we still run Shadowstep, and if we don't run Shadowstep then is Earthen Ring Farseer really better than a 4 drop aggro stop like Sen'Jin or maybe Violete Teacher?
Miracle will be pretty bad since you will see a rise in handlock decks.
There's definitely that, but as people start to counter the FOTM Handlock deck (with Shaman, for example), that's when Miracle will shine a bit more. Still one of the (top?) decks in the game, but is a bit weaker/more inconsistent now because of the Leeroy Jenkins nerf.
Call me crazy, but I'm thinking of sticking with Leeroy Jenkins. Instead of switching him out, I'm adding in an Alexstrasza. This is obviously pretty weak against Paladin, which can use Lay on Hands/Guardian of Kings to heal him afterwards, but most people won't be expecting Alex in Miracle Rogue decks. A couple of pro's: I don't need to put any burn, like eviscerate, on the opponent's hero. Instead I can use it all on the opponent's board, since Alex will do around 10-15 damage to bring him down to 15hp. The turn after I'll play Leeroy + Shadowstep + Cold Blood to finish him off for 16 damage. I'm trying this list right now and I've been having pretty good results in a lot of matchups. I'll test a little more, though. I have to thank Firebat for giving me the idea of running Alex in Miracle, btw. Credit is where it's due.
I've also been interested in where people take Miracle with Alexstrasza in the list. We'll see after nerf day if this variation vastly catches on into the competitive scene!
alexstraza in miracle :o? do u have a list for this lol i want to see how that works out. also i think malygos miracle is strong enough to be viable in the curent and next meta. its not going to be the strongest deck out there for sure but you wont get facerolled if you run it
The advantage to running Southsea is that its incredibly flexible. Unlike the Leeroy combo, you dont have to save your combo pieces for a big finisher. Cold bloods are still strong on their own, and faceless allows for larger minions like a pumped up Shade/Van Cleef/Questing to be cloned. Southsea is also incredible against hunters as a 1 mana trap checker.
I like it more than malagos rouge because malagos is incredibly susceptible to hard removal and loatheb. If you save your Sinister Strikes and Eviscerates until you play malagos, and your opponent saves loatheb till then, your fancy finish has just been shut down.
The advantage to running Southsea is that its incredibly flexible. Unlike the Leeroy combo, you dont have to save your combo pieces for a big finisher. Cold bloods are still strong on their own, and faceless allows for larger minions like a pumped up Shade/Van Cleef/Questing to be cloned. Southsea is also incredible against hunters as a 1 mana trap checker.
I like it more than malagos rouge because malagos is incredibly susceptible to hard removal and loatheb. If you save your Sinister Strikes and Eviscerates until you play malagos, and your opponent saves loatheb till then, your fancy finish has just been shut down.
90% of the time they loatheb your gadget instead of saving it for malygos, you can use a gadget as bait almost. also you dont have to save the spells, sometimes you can just outright kill them with damage before you have to drop malygos. also you need to either conceal malygos or do a prep play, if u just throw a big minion out its going to get removed
Malygos is way too late IMO. By T9 you are either dead to Aggro or had burnt lots of cards in hand against Mid-range/Control. I don't see how Maly presence would help much. I would definitely run Soulsea Deckhand list with an Arcane Golem or 2.
Malygos is way too late IMO. By T9 you are either dead to Aggro or had burnt lots of cards in hand against Mid-range/Control. I don't see how Maly presence would help much. I would definitely run Soulsea Deckhand list with an Arcane Golem or 2.
you have to run cards that stall for malygos rogue to be better. since your win condition is so late i threw in things like doomsayer/senjin/sludge belcher to stay alive. its been working pretty well so far. the deckhand combo is also good though but u need way more cards and getting either faceless or deckhand without the rest of the combo ends up being a dead draw
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From the start, I readily suspected that Malygos Miracle would return to fill the role of post-nerfed Leeroy Jenkins, but a couple days ago on a post from GosuGamers (full article) and through a little experimentation of my own, I found that the Southsea Deckhand used as a finisher was pretty viable, too. Both have their trade-offs, which I'll explain here in case you're not aware of them.
If anyone has more ideas for the potential future of Miracle Rogue, feel free to share them in this thread!
3x Legend | 2 Gold Heroes
I feel having two Faceless Manipulator isn't bad since at worse case scenario you can clone an enemy minion.
Get with it.
There are other iterations as well, for instance some of us are still using Shadowstep with Arcane Golem and Cold Blood + Faceless Manipulator for T9 16 burst or T10 24 burst damage off the combo and having more modular use of the combo pieces with Shadowstep being used on other minions having the burst damage from Cold Blood or Cold Blood being used on other minions and having the Shadowsteps for burst. Sometimes just Arcane Golem can get there with the 3 mana difference amounting to a Cold Blood and an Eviscerate to make up the lost damage.
The Southsea Deckhand version has the fastest fundamental turn, but Coldblood is inflexible and that can be a problem when you're trying to incrementally win the game. Your deck isn't limited to just 1 copy of Faceless Manipulator and Southsea Deckhand, I actually use 2 copies of both because I find them rather useful as removal or at stealing taunts and win conditions etc.
Yeah, I can see potential in adding in the second Deckhand and Faceless; I'll just wait and see where Miracle goes in the competitive scene after the Leeroy nerf. [:
3x Legend | 2 Gold Heroes
Yep, that's my thoughts on the whole thing. I feel it's more likely for the Deckhand version to go competitive in my opinion.
3x Legend | 2 Gold Heroes
Indeed. I still think that the Southsea Deckhand will prove the most reliable/powerful win condition post-Leeroy Jenkins nerf. (Probably better than running no win condition at all, as you noted.)
3x Legend | 2 Gold Heroes
I've also been interested in where people take Miracle with Alexstrasza in the list. We'll see after nerf day if this variation vastly catches on into the competitive scene!
3x Legend | 2 Gold Heroes
Alexstraza is reasonable, for the most part tho' I think it's just a question of how people plan to offset the total burst damage in the deck, cards like Alextraza and Faceless Manipulator are doing more or less the same thing as a part of a combo but both have their own individual utility as well.
You don't necessarily have to abandon Leeroy, he's still pretty good damage output with Shadowstep even if you can only get one in. There are also some cool but slower versions that use both Alexstraza and Malygos and I've seen some really crazy people just drop Magma Giants. The engine is still intact, we just need to reconsider how we end the game.
What I don't like about the Deckhand version tho' is how necesarry keeping Cold Blood in your hand for the combo is, like pre-nerf Miracle I always thought it was really important for every piece of the deck to be pretty modular. The question should probably be do we still run Shadowstep, and if we don't run Shadowstep then is Earthen Ring Farseer really better than a 4 drop aggro stop like Sen'Jin or maybe Violete Teacher?
I will continue to use Leeroy in my Miracle deck post-nerf. It is a slower variation but not so slow as to use Alexstrasza.
let me change your mind...
Tempo rogue
Yes I do up vote everyone who post in my threads as a thanx for taking the time to look at and comment on my post.
Miracle will be pretty bad since you will see a rise in handlock decks.
There's definitely that, but as people start to counter the FOTM Handlock deck (with Shaman, for example), that's when Miracle will shine a bit more. Still one of the (top?) decks in the game, but is a bit weaker/more inconsistent now because of the Leeroy Jenkins nerf.
3x Legend | 2 Gold Heroes
alexstraza in miracle :o? do u have a list for this lol i want to see how that works out. also i think malygos miracle is strong enough to be viable in the curent and next meta. its not going to be the strongest deck out there for sure but you wont get facerolled if you run it
malygos rogue. it's underestimated.
The advantage to running Southsea is that its incredibly flexible. Unlike the Leeroy combo, you dont have to save your combo pieces for a big finisher. Cold bloods are still strong on their own, and faceless allows for larger minions like a pumped up Shade/Van Cleef/Questing to be cloned. Southsea is also incredible against hunters as a 1 mana trap checker.
I like it more than malagos rouge because malagos is incredibly susceptible to hard removal and loatheb. If you save your Sinister Strikes and Eviscerates until you play malagos, and your opponent saves loatheb till then, your fancy finish has just been shut down.
90% of the time they loatheb your gadget instead of saving it for malygos, you can use a gadget as bait almost. also you dont have to save the spells, sometimes you can just outright kill them with damage before you have to drop malygos. also you need to either conceal malygos or do a prep play, if u just throw a big minion out its going to get removed
your playing malygos rouge wrong then.
Leeroy + Alex or Malygos. I've been doing great with Malygos rogue recently.
Malygos is way too late IMO. By T9 you are either dead to Aggro or had burnt lots of cards in hand against Mid-range/Control. I don't see how Maly presence would help much. I would definitely run Soulsea Deckhand list with an Arcane Golem or 2.
you have to run cards that stall for malygos rogue to be better. since your win condition is so late i threw in things like doomsayer/senjin/sludge belcher to stay alive. its been working pretty well so far. the deckhand combo is also good though but u need way more cards and getting either faceless or deckhand without the rest of the combo ends up being a dead draw