The card was supposedly nerfed so that Blizzard could make new cards without worrying about how broken they would be in conjunction with Blade Flurry. While we haven't seen many cards that would have comboed with it in the last 3 sets, I think it is good that rogue has no strong AOE removal. It helps set the class apart from other classes. Rogue has always had strong removal for single minions, which is what I think their identity should be. If Blade Flurry were to be moved to the Hall of Fame set then I think it should be reverted back to original form, or at the very least buffed to be a bit better than it is now.
yeah the one glaring problem with that is that they gutted neutral healing, so if you are facing a board flooding deck or something like pirate warrior, you either get a good opening hand that can deal with it or you lose the game outright. Rogue has absolutely no comeback mechanisms if you lose the board (spending your entire hand to clear theirs and end up one creature, while they still have 5 cards in hand...isnt exactly good)
Even without Blade Flurry Rogue seems to be doing quite well for itself. It's got two high-tier decks in Standard right now (Quest and Miracle). Some classes don't even have one good deck. So while not having neutral healing hurts the class, it doesn't seem to be hurting it too much. I think part of Rogue's identity as a class is tempo, direct removal, and combos. Giving them efficient AOE and good healing would make the class have no weaknesses.
The card was supposedly nerfed so that Blizzard could make new cards without worrying about how broken they would be in conjunction with Blade Flurry. While we haven't seen many cards that would have comboed with it in the last 3 sets, I think it is good that rogue has no strong AOE removal. It helps set the class apart from other classes. Rogue has always had strong removal for single minions, which is what I think their identity should be. If Blade Flurry were to be moved to the Hall of Fame set then I think it should be reverted back to original form, or at the very least buffed to be a bit better than it is now.
yeah the one glaring problem with that is that they gutted neutral healing, so if you are facing a board flooding deck or something like pirate warrior, you either get a good opening hand that can deal with it or you lose the game outright. Rogue has absolutely no comeback mechanisms if you lose the board (spending your entire hand to clear theirs and end up one creature, while they still have 5 cards in hand...isnt exactly good)
Even without Blade Flurry Rogue seems to be doing quite well for itself. It's got two high-tier decks in Standard right now (Quest and Miracle).
What? When? Where? Rogue is not t1 anymore. It was before un'goro got explored enough
During the HCT events the past two weeks most players ran at least one version of Rogue in their lineups. If most pros are running Rogue at the highest level events then I think we can assume that Rogue isn't in a bad place, even without good AOE removal or neutral healing.
The card was supposedly nerfed so that Blizzard could make new cards without worrying about how broken they would be in conjunction with Blade Flurry. While we haven't seen many cards that would have comboed with it in the last 3 sets, I think it is good that rogue has no strong AOE removal. It helps set the class apart from other classes. Rogue has always had strong removal for single minions, which is what I think their identity should be. If Blade Flurry were to be moved to the Hall of Fame set then I think it should be reverted back to original form, or at the very least buffed to be a bit better than it is now.
yeah the one glaring problem with that is that they gutted neutral healing, so if you are facing a board flooding deck or something like pirate warrior, you either get a good opening hand that can deal with it or you lose the game outright. Rogue has absolutely no comeback mechanisms if you lose the board (spending your entire hand to clear theirs and end up one creature, while they still have 5 cards in hand...isnt exactly good)
Even without Blade Flurry Rogue seems to be doing quite well for itself. It's got two high-tier decks in Standard right now (Quest and Miracle).
What? When? Where? Rogue is not t1 anymore. It was before un'goro got explored enough
During the HCT events the past two weeks most players ran at least one version of Rogue in their lineups. If most pros are running Rogue at the highest level events then I think we can assume that Rogue isn't in a bad place, even without good AOE removal or neutral healing.
again with this dumb argument....let's make something clear in here: you CAN'T compare tournament scene to ladder because of two reasons, 1. less than 1% than the playerbase plays in tournments, 2. Line-ups are static and feature class bans.
those two reasons alone mean that rogue can do good in tournaments because they can target stuff and ban other stuff, plus line-ups mean you can cover rogue's weaknesses with other classes, like bringing Paladin or Mage along to deal with swarm decks that'd kill the rogue, ladder is different tho, you can't support your rogue with your line-up because it isn't line-up based and not being able to ban stuff means you are instantlyd ead against pirate warrior or token decks
The card was supposedly nerfed so that Blizzard could make new cards without worrying about how broken they would be in conjunction with Blade Flurry. While we haven't seen many cards that would have comboed with it in the last 3 sets, I think it is good that rogue has no strong AOE removal. It helps set the class apart from other classes. Rogue has always had strong removal for single minions, which is what I think their identity should be. If Blade Flurry were to be moved to the Hall of Fame set then I think it should be reverted back to original form, or at the very least buffed to be a bit better than it is now.
yeah the one glaring problem with that is that they gutted neutral healing, so if you are facing a board flooding deck or something like pirate warrior, you either get a good opening hand that can deal with it or you lose the game outright. Rogue has absolutely no comeback mechanisms if you lose the board (spending your entire hand to clear theirs and end up one creature, while they still have 5 cards in hand...isnt exactly good)
Even without Blade Flurry Rogue seems to be doing quite well for itself. It's got two high-tier decks in Standard right now (Quest and Miracle).
What? When? Where? Rogue is not t1 anymore. It was before un'goro got explored enough
During the HCT events the past two weeks most players ran at least one version of Rogue in their lineups. If most pros are running Rogue at the highest level events then I think we can assume that Rogue isn't in a bad place, even without good AOE removal or neutral healing.
again with this dumb argument....let's make something clear in here: you CAN'T compare tournament scene to ladder because of two reasons, 1. less than 1% than the playerbase plays in tournments, 2. Line-ups are static and feature class bans.
those two reasons alone mean that rogue can do good in tournaments because they can target stuff and ban other stuff, plus line-ups mean you can cover rogue's weaknesses with other classes, like bringing Paladin or Mage along to deal with swarm decks that'd kill the rogue, ladder is different tho, you can't support your rogue with your line-up because it isn't line-up based and not being able to ban stuff means you are instantlyd ead against pirate warrior or token decks
TLDR: Ladder =/= tournaments.
I am fully aware that ladder and tournaments are not 100% the same environment, but you can't deny the general sentiment that at the end of the day pros won't bother with a deck that isn't good on some level. A deck has to perform well enough against the other meta decks to even have a spot in their lineup, regardless of the conquest format. If Rogue was so bad they'd be playing Hunter or Warlock instead. Therefore, anyone who plays Rogue on ladder should feel that they have a reasonable chance to win games as well. Sure, you'll have good/bad matchups, but so does every deck/class. Plus, both Quest Rogue and Miracle Rogue are widely considered to be at worst Tier 2 decks by most publications tracking the ladder metagame.
Accordig to you "Rogue Guys", Rogue is weak and it needs a spell like "0 Mana, Draw 2 0 Mana Spells ana Deal 5 Damage to all enemies." Yeah, poor Rogue needs it for sure :(
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"Sit and come relax, riddle off the mac. It's the patch."
I don't think Team 5 nerfed Blade Flurry because they wanted to print new weapons and poisons for Rogue or they would've printed them already, rather Blade Flurry was nerfed for the same reason Magma Giant was nerfed i.e. Blizzard didn't want Malygos Rogue to be one of the best possible decks at the start of the Standard season. With Emperor and Drake gone, I think that nerf should probably be re-evaluated.
Accordig to you "Rogue Guys", Rogue is weak and it needs a spell like "0 Mana, Draw 2 0 Mana Spells ana Deal 5 Damage to all enemies." Yeah, poor Rogue needs it for sure :(
Not at all, it's not what I meant by starting this thread. I just feel like the blade flurry nerf was way too strong. It's not like i didn't try to make the card work, i did, and it's really clunky.
I wish blizzard could revise the nerf, because 4 mana just made the card almost impossible to work with, considering the destroy your weapon drawback etc...
I could say the same with molten giant, compare it to arcane giant, rogue or mage can consistently play it for 0 mana for no effort whatsoever. Some of the nerfs they made are stupid.
But i guess they're too busy giving stupid cards to the rogue class like the quest, when they could have done something combo related etc. I mean, the quest is not that bad i guess, works with a lot of the rogue tools, but the reward is so stupid, i hope they'll change it.
The card was supposedly nerfed so that Blizzard could make new cards without worrying about how broken they would be in conjunction with Blade Flurry. While we haven't seen many cards that would have comboed with it in the last 3 sets, I think it is good that rogue has no strong AOE removal. It helps set the class apart from other classes. Rogue has always had strong removal for single minions, which is what I think their identity should be. If Blade Flurry were to be moved to the Hall of Fame set then I think it should be reverted back to original form, or at the very least buffed to be a bit better than it is now.
yeah the one glaring problem with that is that they gutted neutral healing, so if you are facing a board flooding deck or something like pirate warrior, you either get a good opening hand that can deal with it or you lose the game outright. Rogue has absolutely no comeback mechanisms if you lose the board (spending your entire hand to clear theirs and end up one creature, while they still have 5 cards in hand...isnt exactly good)
Even without Blade Flurry Rogue seems to be doing quite well for itself. It's got two high-tier decks in Standard right now (Quest and Miracle).
What? When? Where? Rogue is not t1 anymore. It was before un'goro got explored enough
During the HCT events the past two weeks most players ran at least one version of Rogue in their lineups. If most pros are running Rogue at the highest level events then I think we can assume that Rogue isn't in a bad place, even without good AOE removal or neutral healing.
again with this dumb argument....let's make something clear in here: you CAN'T compare tournament scene to ladder because of two reasons, 1. less than 1% than the playerbase plays in tournments, 2. Line-ups are static and feature class bans.
those two reasons alone mean that rogue can do good in tournaments because they can target stuff and ban other stuff, plus line-ups mean you can cover rogue's weaknesses with other classes, like bringing Paladin or Mage along to deal with swarm decks that'd kill the rogue, ladder is different tho, you can't support your rogue with your line-up because it isn't line-up based and not being able to ban stuff means you are instantlyd ead against pirate warrior or token decks
TLDR: Ladder =/= tournaments.
I am fully aware that ladder and tournaments are not 100% the same environment, but you can't deny the general sentiment that at the end of the day pros won't bother with a deck that isn't good on some level. A deck has to perform well enough against the other meta decks to even have a spot in their lineup, regardless of the conquest format. If Rogue was so bad they'd be playing Hunter or Warlock instead. Therefore, anyone who plays Rogue on ladder should feel that they have a reasonable chance to win games as well. Sure, you'll have good/bad matchups, but so does every deck/class. Plus, both Quest Rogue and Miracle Rogue are widely considered to be at worst Tier 2 decks by most publications tracking the ladder metagame.
The issue right now is the rogue is very boom or bust. I always either stick a turn two 8/8 van cleef (while backstabbing their minion to clear the board) and pressure them enough to overtake the game by turn 5 or I'm stuck praying for a key card like auctioneer to go off of to get back into the game as my life total dwindles.
It's just annoying that you HAVE to include thalnos + FoK in every deck to make sure you can take out a board of free totems or unpumped murlocks (when both those decks have multiple board clears).
The card was supposedly nerfed so that Blizzard could make new cards without worrying about how broken they would be in conjunction with Blade Flurry. While we haven't seen many cards that would have comboed with it in the last 3 sets, I think it is good that rogue has no strong AOE removal. It helps set the class apart from other classes. Rogue has always had strong removal for single minions, which is what I think their identity should be. If Blade Flurry were to be moved to the Hall of Fame set then I think it should be reverted back to original form, or at the very least buffed to be a bit better than it is now.
yeah the one glaring problem with that is that they gutted neutral healing, so if you are facing a board flooding deck or something like pirate warrior, you either get a good opening hand that can deal with it or you lose the game outright. Rogue has absolutely no comeback mechanisms if you lose the board (spending your entire hand to clear theirs and end up one creature, while they still have 5 cards in hand...isnt exactly good)
Even without Blade Flurry Rogue seems to be doing quite well for itself. It's got two high-tier decks in Standard right now (Quest and Miracle).
What? When? Where? Rogue is not t1 anymore. It was before un'goro got explored enough
During the HCT events the past two weeks most players ran at least one version of Rogue in their lineups. If most pros are running Rogue at the highest level events then I think we can assume that Rogue isn't in a bad place, even without good AOE removal or neutral healing.
again with this dumb argument....let's make something clear in here: you CAN'T compare tournament scene to ladder because of two reasons, 1. less than 1% than the playerbase plays in tournments, 2. Line-ups are static and feature class bans.
those two reasons alone mean that rogue can do good in tournaments because they can target stuff and ban other stuff, plus line-ups mean you can cover rogue's weaknesses with other classes, like bringing Paladin or Mage along to deal with swarm decks that'd kill the rogue, ladder is different tho, you can't support your rogue with your line-up because it isn't line-up based and not being able to ban stuff means you are instantlyd ead against pirate warrior or token decks
TLDR: Ladder =/= tournaments.
I am fully aware that ladder and tournaments are not 100% the same environment, but you can't deny the general sentiment that at the end of the day pros won't bother with a deck that isn't good on some level. A deck has to perform well enough against the other meta decks to even have a spot in their lineup, regardless of the conquest format. If Rogue was so bad they'd be playing Hunter or Warlock instead. Therefore, anyone who plays Rogue on ladder should feel that they have a reasonable chance to win games as well. Sure, you'll have good/bad matchups, but so does every deck/class. Plus, both Quest Rogue and Miracle Rogue are widely considered to be at worst Tier 2 decks by most publications tracking the ladder metagame.
The issue right now is the rogue is very boom or bust. I always either stick a turn two 8/8 van cleef (while backstabbing their minion to clear the board) and pressure them enough to overtake the game by turn 5 or I'm stuck praying for a key card like auctioneer to go off of to get back into the game as my life total dwindles.
It's just annoying that you HAVE to include thalnos + FoK in every deck to make sure you can take out a board of free totems or unpumped murlocks (when both those decks have multiple board clears).
To be fair most classes have their "I hate to have to do this" aspects. Druid has no good way to deal with large minions effectively now that Mulch is gone (Naturalize is so bad). Paladin has no good way to deal with single minions as well outside of Aldor Peacekeeper style effects. Priest has trouble putting pressure on opponents outside of gimmicky stuff like Inner Fire/Divine Spirit combo. If all of the classes had no weaknesses then every class would feel almost exactly the same. Rogue's identity is tempo and efficient single target removal. Just gotta play to your strengths and know how to mitigate your weaknesses. Hopefully with the new sets later this year some different play patterns will be introduced for the classes that are a bit shallow right now.
Just came back to hearthstone about 2 weeks ago and hadn't played since December 2015 where I played a bunch of Oil rogue and for me Tinker's Sharpsword Oil was the problematic card not blade flurry. Blade flurry without a buffed weapon seemed more like a poor mans fan of knives if you desperately needed some form of board clear. Was bummed when I came back to playing and saw the huge nerf to blade flurry. Being able to do anywhere from 8-19 damage on turn 6 solely because of Oil was way to strong.
It was definitely needed. Old blade flurry was incredibly broken. I thought of the same one you recommended: just the old one but only damaging minions
It certainly should only burn one durability on your weapon considering how crazily expensive it is. It might at least be playable as a one-off in some kind of pirate/weapon-buff deck.
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Rogue is not supposed to have AOE removal, that's part of the class.
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
Accordig to you "Rogue Guys", Rogue is weak and it needs a spell like "0 Mana, Draw 2 0 Mana Spells ana Deal 5 Damage to all enemies." Yeah, poor Rogue needs it for sure :(
"Sit and come relax, riddle off the mac. It's the patch."
I don't think Team 5 nerfed Blade Flurry because they wanted to print new weapons and poisons for Rogue or they would've printed them already, rather Blade Flurry was nerfed for the same reason Magma Giant was nerfed i.e. Blizzard didn't want Malygos Rogue to be one of the best possible decks at the start of the Standard season. With Emperor and Drake gone, I think that nerf should probably be re-evaluated.
It's just annoying that you HAVE to include thalnos + FoK in every deck to make sure you can take out a board of free totems or unpumped murlocks (when both those decks have multiple board clears).
Just came back to hearthstone about 2 weeks ago and hadn't played since December 2015 where I played a bunch of Oil rogue and for me Tinker's Sharpsword Oil was the problematic card not blade flurry. Blade flurry without a buffed weapon seemed more like a poor mans fan of knives if you desperately needed some form of board clear. Was bummed when I came back to playing and saw the huge nerf to blade flurry. Being able to do anywhere from 8-19 damage on turn 6 solely because of Oil was way to strong.
It was definitely needed. Old blade flurry was incredibly broken. I thought of the same one you recommended: just the old one but only damaging minions
Fuck cubelock
It certainly should only burn one durability on your weapon considering how crazily expensive it is. It might at least be playable as a one-off in some kind of pirate/weapon-buff deck.