This is a venting thread.... . I play "netdecks" on US server to quickly get to legend every season, but on the Asia server I only climb ladder with rogue for the challenge and because its my favorite class despite how shit it is. I play everything from acolytemiracle, standardmiracle, renorogue, n'zothrogue, malyrogue, thistleteaggro, pickpocketrogue, boardclearrogue...
Honestly as bad as rogue is currently, I wouldn't complain if the devs hadn't nerfed flurry. That way we would be able to easily sweep the DOMINANT SHAMAN board and also contend with ZOO as long as we draw the right cards. It would take skill in waiting for the right time to use flurry and shaman would also have to play around it which would make it more skill based. Right now clearing the board for zoo and shaman is very difficult running thalnos/azure drake/fan of knives. Sometimes you need prep&thalnos/azure&fok which is a 3-4 combo card....Having 3 of those when you need to clear board is a pain in the butt. I've resorted to run evolved kobold card just so I can do full clears of those 3health minions with a lower mana usage.
And yes I know we have Dark Iron Skulker but sometimes their minions are damaged, or not all minions have 2 health as above, so its usually RNG running that. Sometimes dark iron skulker & fan of knives combo can do full board clears when they dont expect it but that pretty much takes a full turn.
1. I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU DEVS SUPER-NERFED BLADE FLURRY. IN STANDARD, TINKER IS UNPLAYABLE SO THERE IS NO FEAR FOR MASSIVE BOARD CLEARS and FACE DAMAGE COMBOS. You could have simply nerfed blade flurry by not letting the weapon damage do hero damage and keeping it the same mana cost....but no some intern in your department decided to get his revenge on rogue players who made him cry by making what used to be 2 mana from CLASSIC to 4 FREAKING MANA!!!!
Also the cards they added to supposedly countereffect the nerf is way too slow. Obviously the devs don't play rogue competitively.
Deadly Fork: 3 Mana 3/2 Deathrattle add a 3/2 weapon to your hand. It's almost 6 mana total to get it's complete use.
Southsea Squidface: 4 mana 4/4 Deathrattle give your weapon +2 attack. Same thing as above, way too slow, you need to have a dagger equipped to get full 2 charges out of it. If you have no weapon, your screwed if they kill it next turn and even one charge is pretty useless.
Anyways, I hope you guys learn to make Rogue good again.
None of those cards were made to counteract the blade flurry nerf.
Deadly fork is obviously a more fatigue/arena card
Squidface is a decent deathrattle for rogue it's just not as good as tomb pillager so nzoth rogue would prefer that.
Thistle Tea...uh....is a completely different card possibly designed towards a fatigue game plan.
Rogue is completely designed around miracle and stealing cards right now, both of which work fine. It's the meta that is hurting rogue. Blade flurry would be nice against shaman though, but we have Skulker as the tech for that. Against a lot of other decks I don't see blade flurry helping enough. What rogue needs more than anything is probably defensive tools, or a board clear much better than blade flurry.
So yah, if you want to rant about blade flurry go ahead. It was a pretty bad decision the way they nerfed it in the current card pool, but they probably did it to open up design space further on. Overall rogue works really well right now, it just has an unfortunate position against a lot of top meta decks.
It is kind of funny though reading this post, it's like you just woke up after we've been playing standard for quite a while.
I just ranted on another topic the other day. Good nerfs would have been same mana cost but affect only minions or 4 mana cost same effect. Why the decision was made to render the card useless remains a mistery.
While Oil Rogue was one of my favorite decks, I understand the Blade Flurry nerf. They did it so that they can give rogue better weapons/weapon buffs. They said that flurry limited the design space for that. What makes me angry is that we are yet to see those new, strong weapons.
Since the nerf, they haven't released a single good Rogue weapon, making the nerf "meaningless". Instead, we got steal some random shit from opponent't class -_-
They nerver the card in oblivian. But they made no alternative, properly because oil roque was dominant during GvG, perhaps now a new board clear will be introduced in Gadgetzan
I agree they went overboard but lets be honest here, rogue would be insanely broken with the old version in standard meta. If they made it 2 mana it would probly be 2 off in every single rogue deck currently. Which leads to my next point.
Im pretty happy about the nerf because blade flurry didn't take 2 slots but atleast 4. You would always play 2 deadly poisons on top of BFs. And why I am happy? I don't want to be stuck for all eternity to always autoinclude those card. We already have strong classic set and a lot of autoinclude cards.
Maybe nerfing it to to 4 mana with the old effect would've been ok so malygos rogue cant abuse it too easily.
Your argument is flawed and biased, there are plenty of cards that are IN EVERY FUCKING DECK and you will see them EVERY FUCKING TIME, but the execute nerf was just so-so and the others are here to fucking stay, fuck that prick intern who decided to go overboard with the nerf, and fuck Ben Brode too, just for the hell of it.
They nerver the card in oblivian. But they made no alternative, properly because oil roque was dominant during GvG, perhaps now a new board clear will be introduced in Gadgetzan
Oil was never dominant, not a single damn time, but it was a competitive deck, a working deck and a combo deck, so they fucked it for all the wild players.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The 1st step towards a better game is firing Mike Donais! We had enough of his "skillful" balances!
In retrospect I think all of the nerfs to Rogue and Warlock were horrible for the game, they nerfed Blade Flurry, Molten Giant, Big Game Hunter and Ironbeak Owl in order to stop Malygos Rogue and Handlock/Renolock from being grandfathered into the new meta but those decks would have been exactly what we needed to contest Shamans. To this day, I can't understand the logic of nerfing Molten Giant and then printing Thing From Below and Arcane Giant, and nerfing Silence had an overall negative effect on Control being able to deal with Deathrattle - which was only exascerbated by N'zoth - so Shaman gained the premium removal spell by defacto.
I am really hoping the whole control vibe of this expansion makes up for their stupidity, because they seem to be unable to admit mistakes and reverse nerfs.
Since the nerf, they haven't released a single good Rogue weapon, rendering the nerf "meaningless". Instead, we got steal some random shit from opponent't class -_-
*Since beta, they haven't released a single good Rogue weapon.
FTFY.
Team 5 can't balance their game, that's obvious. Nerfing to oblivion balanced stuff and leaving broken stuff alone for years.
I agree they went overboard but lets be honest here, rogue would be insanely broken with the old version in standard meta. If they made it 2 mana it would probly be 2 off in every single rogue deck currently. Which leads to my next point.
Im pretty happy about the nerf because blade flurry didn't take 2 slots but atleast 4. You would always play 2 deadly poisons on top of BFs. And why I am happy? I don't want to be stuck for all eternity to always autoinclude those card. We already have strong classic set and a lot of autoinclude cards.
Maybe nerfing it to to 4 mana with the old effect would've been ok so malygos rogue cant abuse it too easily.
Your argument is flawed and biased, there are plenty of cards that are IN EVERY FUCKING DECK and you will see them EVERY FUCKING TIME, but the execute nerf was just so-so and the others are here to fucking stay, fuck that prick intern who decided to go overboard with the nerf, and fuck Ben Brode too, just for the hell of it.
So what is your point actually? You are saying that other classes have good cards too? And please, if you say that my logic is flawed and biased, at least explain why.
Ill write it again if it was hard to understand:
-Yes there are cards in all classes that goes to every deck (which is obvious and its not really useful to point stuff like that).
-The thing about bladeflurry is that it doesn't take just 2 slots from deck. It takes atleast 4 slots. It was a great solution to nerf that card instead of, lets say preparation. Some nerf was needed. Rogue would've been really broken without any nerfs in standard. It opened up alot of options for rogue. The decks were really tight in BF days.
-When they nerfed BF, most of the sticky OP deathrattle minions rotated out. That means AOEs are better in general int standard.
If they didn't nerf Blade Flurry, rogue would be the king of standard meta. While some people like their class to be OP, some want them to be balanced. And btw I love to play rogue. Its the only class I don't get bored of.
- You can't know that, and you are making absolutely no point. Just saying "if BF didn't got nerfed, Rogue would be OP". Then I can say "if BF didn't got nerfed, Rogue would be thrash tier". See ? Not giving any argument, just saying stupid things like that. - Blade Flurry enough to counter Shamanstone ? Make me laugh. - Sure, far better to have a cancer meta for 8 months than an actually skillful dominating nerf. I don't see why Rogue has no right to be dominant while Shaman, Paladin, Warrior, Mage, etc. can be everywhere for months ?
Watch how easy this is guys, watch these sick nerfs:
Blade Flurry - 2 mana, destroy your weapon and deal its attack to all enemy minions
Warsong Commander - Your minions with 3 or less attack HAVE charge (not GAIN charge)
Molten Giant - OH WAIT, IT DIDN'T NEED A NERF AT ALL
See how damn easy it is, Blizzard? And when they get community backlash in response to a nerf, they ignore it. I also think the Ancient of Lore, Rockbiter Weapon, and Keeper of the Grove nerfs were done poorly, but those aren't nearly as bad as the first 3 I listed.
I'm not a big Rogue player, but I agree they went overboard...it was probably already said, it should've been only damage the minions...or if that is not acceptable, up it to 4 mana with the old effect...
Since the nerf, they haven't released a single good Rogue weapon, rendering the nerf "meaningless". Instead, we got steal some random shit from opponent't class -_-
*Since beta, they haven't released a single good Rogue weapon.
FTFY.
Team 5 can't balance their game, that's obvious. Nerfing to oblivion balanced stuff and leaving broken stuff alone for years.
Honestly I'm more upset they haven't made any new poisons as opposed to any new weapons, if you think about it making weapons for a class that has a weapon as its hero power is a pretty poor design. My main issue is that of all the classes Rogue is the only class that Blizzard hasn't given anything new to since Beta, we're still playing the same gimped deck 3 years on.
the funny thing is, that they nerfed cards nobody even knew that they were there, becuase you met them every now and them and it was nothing special. But somehow blizzard considerd them unbalanced lol...
Since the nerf, they haven't released a single good Rogue weapon, rendering the nerf "meaningless". Instead, we got steal some random shit from opponent't class -_-
*Since beta, they haven't released a single good Rogue weapon.
FTFY.
Team 5 can't balance their game, that's obvious. Nerfing to oblivion balanced stuff and leaving broken stuff alone for years.
Honestly I'm more upset they haven't made any new poisons as opposed to any new weapons, if you think about it making weapons for a class that has a weapon as its hero power is a pretty poor design. My main issue is that of all the classes Rogue is the only class that Blizzard hasn't given anything new to since Beta, we're still playing the same gimped deck 3 years on.
Yeah I totally agree. Blizzard don't know what to do with Rogue class and prefer to leave it untouched rather than find some imagination. The community would be far better at balancing the game and creating content that the people actually paid for it.
Rogue players are not asking for a 4 mana 7/7 or a Dr.6, we don't want broken stuff, we just want DECENT stuff, or at least new things that are not completely garbage. There totally is a room for it, but Blizzard is too scared (or hate Rogue) to give good cards with good stats.
- Cutpurse ? Nice idea, should be "everytime this minion attack" or at least with 3 health - Deadly Fork ? 3 mana 3-2 + 3 mana 3/2 weapon ? AHAHAH - Perdition's Blade ? Should be a 3/2 or 2/3 - Poisoned Blade ? Shall we talk about it ? - Xaril, Poisoned Mind ? Would have been so great with decent stats, not even near broken as Shaman or Paladin cards but actually good. - Dark Iron Skulker ? Our only real AoE is so ridiculous it's not even played ... - Kidnapper ? What awful stats for a good idea ... Why combo with such stats ? - Thistle Tea ? Compare it to Nourish or Cabalist's Tome ... Would be thrash even à 4 mana. - Blade Flurry ? 7 mana 2 cards 3 damage AoE that doesn't hit face. AHAHAH - Counterfeit Coin ? Innervate plz ... - Shaku, the Collector ? Because Darnassus Aspirant is so broken let's make a legendary cost 3 for 2/3 body and draw a random card ...
Getting 3 or 4 cards like that could be just errors. Getting so many proves that Blizzard doesn't give a damn about the class.
Yes, Blizzard is just really really bad in nerfing of cards.
I can agree that Bladefury was limiting a future card design and that it was an autoinclude card ,but they have overnerfed it way too much. I actually think that 3 mana and the current card text would be completly fine. It's not broken or an autoinclude card, but you can still run it if your deck really lacks on AOEs and it allready runs some weapon synergies like Southsea Squidface.
Warsong Commander was a really tricky card and I understand why they decided to completly remove the Charge gaining effect, but I don't get why they made it such a bad card. I think that the right nerf would be something around the effect of the current Charge card. Like (3 mana 2/3) give a minion with three or less attack charge + It can't attack face this turn.
Molten Giant This nerf was completly uneeded and I don't know the reason behind this nerf, but if they needed to nerf this card they should just increase the cost by 2 instead of 5.
Ancient of Lore -Another well deserved nerf and yet another gaint overnerf. This card should be a 5/7 or 7/5.
Keeper of the Grove- Well, I don't see any reason why this shouldn't be 2/3.
You have to be really stupid not to recognize that this nerf was fucking horrible. I dont know what devs were thinking about but they are still in a position to recognize thier error.
- agree that we need something that affect the weapon more than new weapons, it can be even better if they make something useful.
- been experimenting with squidface, it's actually somewhat good, people get scared of it, "i am not giving this guy's weapon a deadly poison for free, better hex it.", done, my sylvanas and caerne are free to go next.
Yes, Blizzard is just really really bad in nerfing of cards.
I can agree that Bladefury was limiting a future card design and that it was an autoinclude card ,but they have overnerfed it way too much. I actually think that 3 mana and the current card text would be completly fine. It's not broken or an autoinclude card, but you can still run it if your deck really lacks on AOEs and it allready runs some weapon synergies like Southsea Squidface.
Warsong Commander was a really tricky card and I understand why they decided to completly remove the Charge gaining effect, but I don't get why they made it such a bad card. I think that the right nerf would be something around the effect of the current Charge card. Like (3 mana 2/3) give a minion with three or less attack charge + It can't attack face this turn.
Molten Giant This nerf was completly uneeded and I don't know the reason behind this nerf, but if they needed to nerf this card they should just increase the cost by 2 instead of 5.
Ancient of Lore -Another well deserved nerf and yet another gaint overnerf. This card should be a 5/7 or 7/5.
Keeper of the Grove- Well, I don't see any reason why this shouldn't be 2/3.
Yeah, that's it, I think everyone concur with this guy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My magic will tear you apart!
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This is a venting thread.... . I play "netdecks" on US server to quickly get to legend every season, but on the Asia server I only climb ladder with rogue for the challenge and because its my favorite class despite how shit it is. I play everything from acolytemiracle, standardmiracle, renorogue, n'zothrogue, malyrogue, thistleteaggro, pickpocketrogue, boardclearrogue...
Honestly as bad as rogue is currently, I wouldn't complain if the devs hadn't nerfed flurry. That way we would be able to easily sweep the DOMINANT SHAMAN board and also contend with ZOO as long as we draw the right cards. It would take skill in waiting for the right time to use flurry and shaman would also have to play around it which would make it more skill based. Right now clearing the board for zoo and shaman is very difficult running thalnos/azure drake/fan of knives. Sometimes you need prep&thalnos/azure&fok which is a 3-4 combo card....Having 3 of those when you need to clear board is a pain in the butt. I've resorted to run evolved kobold card just so I can do full clears of those 3health minions with a lower mana usage.
And yes I know we have Dark Iron Skulker but sometimes their minions are damaged, or not all minions have 2 health as above, so its usually RNG running that. Sometimes dark iron skulker & fan of knives combo can do full board clears when they dont expect it but that pretty much takes a full turn.
1. I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU DEVS SUPER-NERFED BLADE FLURRY. IN STANDARD, TINKER IS UNPLAYABLE SO THERE IS NO FEAR FOR MASSIVE BOARD CLEARS and FACE DAMAGE COMBOS. You could have simply nerfed blade flurry by not letting the weapon damage do hero damage and keeping it the same mana cost....but no some intern in your department decided to get his revenge on rogue players who made him cry by making what used to be 2 mana from CLASSIC to 4 FREAKING MANA!!!!
Also the cards they added to supposedly countereffect the nerf is way too slow. Obviously the devs don't play rogue competitively.
Deadly Fork: 3 Mana 3/2 Deathrattle add a 3/2 weapon to your hand. It's almost 6 mana total to get it's complete use.
Southsea Squidface: 4 mana 4/4 Deathrattle give your weapon +2 attack. Same thing as above, way too slow, you need to have a dagger equipped to get full 2 charges out of it. If you have no weapon, your screwed if they kill it next turn and even one charge is pretty useless.
Anyways, I hope you guys learn to make Rogue good again.
None of those cards were made to counteract the blade flurry nerf.
Deadly fork is obviously a more fatigue/arena card
Squidface is a decent deathrattle for rogue it's just not as good as tomb pillager so nzoth rogue would prefer that.
Thistle Tea...uh....is a completely different card possibly designed towards a fatigue game plan.
Rogue is completely designed around miracle and stealing cards right now, both of which work fine. It's the meta that is hurting rogue. Blade flurry would be nice against shaman though, but we have Skulker as the tech for that. Against a lot of other decks I don't see blade flurry helping enough. What rogue needs more than anything is probably defensive tools, or a board clear much better than blade flurry.
So yah, if you want to rant about blade flurry go ahead. It was a pretty bad decision the way they nerfed it in the current card pool, but they probably did it to open up design space further on. Overall rogue works really well right now, it just has an unfortunate position against a lot of top meta decks.
It is kind of funny though reading this post, it's like you just woke up after we've been playing standard for quite a while.
I just ranted on another topic the other day. Good nerfs would have been same mana cost but affect only minions or 4 mana cost same effect. Why the decision was made to render the card useless remains a mistery.
While Oil Rogue was one of my favorite decks, I understand the Blade Flurry nerf. They did it so that they can give rogue better weapons/weapon buffs. They said that flurry limited the design space for that. What makes me angry is that we are yet to see those new, strong weapons.
Since the nerf, they haven't released a single good Rogue weapon, making the nerf "meaningless". Instead, we got steal some random shit from opponent't class -_-
Valar Morghulis
They nerver the card in oblivian. But they made no alternative, properly because oil roque was dominant during GvG, perhaps now a new board clear will be introduced in Gadgetzan
The 1st step towards a better game is firing Mike Donais! We had enough of his "skillful" balances!
#FireMikeDonais
The 1st step towards a better game is firing Mike Donais! We had enough of his "skillful" balances!
#FireMikeDonais
In retrospect I think all of the nerfs to Rogue and Warlock were horrible for the game, they nerfed Blade Flurry, Molten Giant, Big Game Hunter and Ironbeak Owl in order to stop Malygos Rogue and Handlock/Renolock from being grandfathered into the new meta but those decks would have been exactly what we needed to contest Shamans. To this day, I can't understand the logic of nerfing Molten Giant and then printing Thing From Below and Arcane Giant, and nerfing Silence had an overall negative effect on Control being able to deal with Deathrattle - which was only exascerbated by N'zoth - so Shaman gained the premium removal spell by defacto.
I am really hoping the whole control vibe of this expansion makes up for their stupidity, because they seem to be unable to admit mistakes and reverse nerfs.
- Blade Flurry enough to counter Shamanstone ? Make me laugh.
- Sure, far better to have a cancer meta for 8 months than an actually skillful dominating nerf. I don't see why Rogue has no right to be dominant while Shaman, Paladin, Warrior, Mage, etc. can be everywhere for months ?
Watch how easy this is guys, watch these sick nerfs:
See how damn easy it is, Blizzard? And when they get community backlash in response to a nerf, they ignore it. I also think the Ancient of Lore, Rockbiter Weapon, and Keeper of the Grove nerfs were done poorly, but those aren't nearly as bad as the first 3 I listed.
I'm not a big Rogue player, but I agree they went overboard...it was probably already said, it should've been only damage the minions...or if that is not acceptable, up it to 4 mana with the old effect...
You can't stop the signal.
the funny thing is, that they nerfed cards nobody even knew that they were there, becuase you met them every now and them and it was nothing special. But somehow blizzard considerd them unbalanced lol...
- Deadly Fork ? 3 mana 3-2 + 3 mana 3/2 weapon ? AHAHAH
- Perdition's Blade ? Should be a 3/2 or 2/3
- Poisoned Blade ? Shall we talk about it ?
- Xaril, Poisoned Mind ? Would have been so great with decent stats, not even near broken as Shaman or Paladin cards but actually good.
- Dark Iron Skulker ? Our only real AoE is so ridiculous it's not even played ...
- Kidnapper ? What awful stats for a good idea ... Why combo with such stats ?
- Thistle Tea ? Compare it to Nourish or Cabalist's Tome ... Would be thrash even à 4 mana.
- Blade Flurry ? 7 mana 2 cards 3 damage AoE that doesn't hit face. AHAHAH
- Counterfeit Coin ? Innervate plz ...
- Shaku, the Collector ? Because Darnassus Aspirant is so broken let's make a legendary cost 3 for 2/3 body and draw a random card ...
Yes, Blizzard is just really really bad in nerfing of cards.
Take a look at my card creations here in vojza's mini expansion topic.
You have to be really stupid not to recognize that this nerf was fucking horrible. I dont know what devs were thinking about but they are still in a position to recognize thier error.
Even though I'm not a rogue player, I feel your pain.
Howdy! [cardimg=gold ]Card Name[ /cardimg] (no space)
Hey, how's it going?
What's poppin,' player?
- agree that we need something that affect the weapon more than new weapons, it can be even better if they make something useful.
- been experimenting with squidface, it's actually somewhat good, people get scared of it, "i am not giving this guy's weapon a deadly poison for free, better hex it.", done, my sylvanas and caerne are free to go next.
need take time to make new pic and signature using the new cards.
My magic will tear you apart!