Rogue is one of the only classes left that requires skill. Miracle Rogue was powerful but still took skill. Now, not so much. Blizzard is really pushing the stealing cards too far. Sure, it's a fun concept but.. It's too random. It turns every game into an RNG clown fiesta. It kinds of reminds me of Evolve, it's gimmicky and all RNG. But you don't see Blizzard basing every Shaman card around Evolve, do you? It's like Blizzard got tired of always seeing Miracle Rogue so they shit all over the cards and turn the whole class into an RNG fiesta.
The worst part is that Blizzard knows these types of cards are bad. They made Nefarian and Burgle, and were they used? No. So who thought that they should give an already weak class useless cards. So seriously Blizzard, when are you going to get real and balance out the classes?
It's as dumb as trying to make Discard Warlock a thing. Oh...
I dunno it's a lot of fun IMO. Been playing a N'Zoth Burgle homebrew a little. Usually the cards you steal are fairly useful, unless you're playing against a Priest(lol burgle rogue hard counter cause their cards suck). Got 2x Tirion Fordring and a Ragnaros Lightlord my last match against a Paladin. That was the sickest N'Zoth ever lol...
Burgle Rogue is fine for shits and giggles, but I don't think that deck should be the 'identity' of Rogue. That would be so lame. Team 5 stubbornly continues to try and force feed us these 'archetypes' like Beast Druid or Discardlock.
Yes please print more weapon buffs for rogue! They dont even need to be super stronk like oil add other interesting effects to them! And PLEASE give us ONE good weapon we have been waiting to long for that...
Blizzard hates Rogues, this is just to keep things in line with WoW.
Agreed, all these "get a random card" things are very unappealing. I think babbling book is a decent example of it done right and swashburglar etc good examples of it going to far.
Rouge always has some time to shine, then it gets less popular, then it shines again and so on... Rogue is very meta-dependant class - in some metas it's absolutely amazing, in other it's utter trash. But just like Warrior or Druid all of its main components are in basic/classic set. Therefore there is no worry Rogue once becomes Priest - it will always be somewhere around, simply waiting for more suitable meta.
You should rather worry about Paladin, Shaman and Priest, since their basic core is very limited and they basically demand new op tools every single expansion in order to stay in the game.
Yes rogues have some good basic cards and that almost makes them viable but with every expansion that comes out they get the warlock treatment: getting maybe one single good card and then utter trash, while other classes get more that a single good card.
On top of this rogue is a weapon class, but it has no good weapon and it even got its only viable board clear nerfed into oblivion.
The "steal" mechanic is rubbish because it's not reliable, you can get a good card or a useless card(Shatter) with the help of a minion with sub optimal stats so if you don't get a good card you are in trouble, and you can't afford to drop sub optimal minions when playing curvestone because you are going to get eaten alive by high value minions dropped on curve by shamans and hunters.
I am a huge Rouge fan since I started playing the game. I have a golden Rouge and love how challenging the class is. You could have 4 different ways to play a single turn but which one is the correct one? I love the amount of skill and thought it takes to plan out every turn and every move. When Oil rouge was a thing back when Blade Flurry was a thing (RIP Blade Flurry) it was the most fun I've had playing the game.
I just wanted to touch up really quick on Blade flurry. How can you destroy one of the only AOE cards for one class so much? I agree the card was really good but to just kill a card like that is stupid? Think about other AOE cards for other classes. Consecration; 4 mana deals two to everything. Holy Nova; 5 mana 2 damage to everything. lighting storm 5 mana 2-3 damage to every thing. Blade flurry you have to pay two mana to hero power and then Blade Flurry? That's 6 mana for dealing one damage to everything. Let’s say you Deadly poison then blade flurry that's 7 mana for 3 damage to other side of the board and you need two cards in order for this to go off. It’s just not fair. Rouge has gotten so many stupid cards and barley gets a single good card out of new sets, adventures. It relies so much on its class cards and cards from the basic set its annoying. When was the last time you saw a competitive rouge deck that didn't play two Backstab, two Deadly Posion two Eviscerate, two Sap, two SI:7 agent, two Prepeperation, two Fan of knives? Thats nearly half of almost all rouge decks being the exact same. These cards are good but there is nothing to replace them with. Same cards for over two years. So stop wasting our time and get back to the core of the class. Decent combo's and a class that actually requires thought and skill. If you want to make a simple play and pass class like shamen do that, but don't make a sexy bitch like Valeera suffer :)
When you talk about RNG it can either be good random or bad random. RGN for damage like Flamewaker or knife juggler is fine because you're pushing damage to the other side of the board. If you play minions or spells damage is being dealt. When it comes to RNG with cards that's another story. An example is Lock and Load. This card never took off because it would shit out random cards for hunter and most of the hunter cards sucked ass like cobra strike or misdirection. So when rouge comes along and is like "hey lets jump on the HUGE RNG train that is now Hearthstone!!!" (cabalist tomb, yogg, ect) I say stop. I do believe we need to draw the line somewhere. The game needs to get away from random bullshit (purify) and get back to making the game about skill. Turns that require though and not just playing over powered crap like 4 mana for a 7/7. Stop taking the easy way out and start putting more thought into the cards that you create.
How is Swashburglar more random than Novice Engineer? You don't control what you draw either.
It's the difference between ranges. With novice your opponent knows that he should play around your deck(and has a good idea of what cards you should be playing), with swashburglar there's no way to play around it as the range of cards is too big and you have to consider your own class, you can't play around a flamestrike from swashburglar for example, because it's not worth it and it's sooo random.
I just wanted to touch up really quick on Blade flurry. How can you destroy one of the only AOE cards for one class so much? I agree the card was really good but to just kill a card like that is stupid?
At first, it makes sense when it comes to future class design. Blizz didn't want to punish rogue players for thinking outside the box and play a non-weapon based strategy, so I believe the plan was to nerf BF into oblivion and then introduce an AOE removal that doesn't require a weapon, that'd improve variety and thats always good for the game.
Problem is, the damn aoe removal never came, so the conclusion is: Blizzard hates rogues LUL
I really think that people read far too much into Blizzard's efforts to round out certain components of a variety of classes to be at least options as "This is the only possible thing to do with the class."
Discard Warlock was something that's been toyed with in the past with cards like Fist of Jaraxxus but that alone doesn't make a discard deck viable, so they went ahead and made some cards that do help flesh it out. That doesn't mean you can expect every flipping card in the next big expansion to be discard based. The same is true of Rogue and stealing class cards. The same is true of Beast Druid. The same is true of control/spell hunter. The same is true of Pirate/Weapon warrior.
They seem like efforts to help make certain decks at least an option. The problem is the way things come out people see "Wow, the majority of the rogue cards in this *ADVENTURE* deal with stealing class cards, and we've had a few of those in recent expansions" or "Wow, they're really pushing beast druid" - it doesn't mean that's all you're ever going to get. In previous expansions things like Demonlock got pushed, but that's not really a huge archetype and never really became that. Things like Totem Shaman have been pushed and seem to some extent to still be in that category, but there still aren't a tremendous amount of decks running totem buffs.
I guess what I'm trying to say is don't think the sky is falling just yet. A batch of cards designed for a specific deck or style of deck does not mean you should expect that's all you'll get going forward.
I really think that people read far too much into Blizzard's efforts to round out certain components of a variety of classes to be at least options as "This is the only possible thing to do with the class."
Discard Warlock was something that's been toyed with in the past with cards like Fist of Jaraxxus but that alone doesn't make a discard deck viable, so they went ahead and made some cards that do help flesh it out. That doesn't mean you can expect every flipping card in the next big expansion to be discard based. The same is true of Rogue and stealing class cards. The same is true of Beast Druid. The same is true of control/spell hunter. The same is true of Pirate/Weapon warrior.
They seem like efforts to help make certain decks at least an option. The problem is the way things come out people see "Wow, the majority of the rogue cards in this *ADVENTURE* deal with stealing class cards, and we've had a few of those in recent expansions" or "Wow, they're really pushing beast druid" - it doesn't mean that's all you're ever going to get. In previous expansions things like Demonlock got pushed, but that's not really a huge archetype and never really became that. Things like Totem Shaman have been pushed and seem to some extent to still be in that category, but there still aren't a tremendous amount of decks running totem buffs.
I guess what I'm trying to say is don't think the sky is falling just yet. A batch of cards designed for a specific deck or style of deck does not mean you should expect that's all you'll get going forward.
What I don't like about this game is synergy doesn't make a good deck simply good cards make a good deck. As you said, pirate anything, demon warlock, taunt warrior, purify preist, ect. That's the way the game is built. Some things you can build off like discard warlock.. maybe but Zoo is still better since you can just play good minions.
I just wanted to touch up really quick on Blade flurry. How can you destroy one of the only AOE cards for one class so much? I agree the card was really good but to just kill a card like that is stupid? Think about other AOE cards for other classes. Consecration; 4 mana deals two to everything. Holy Nova; 5 mana 2 damage to everything. lighting storm 5 mana 2-3 damage to every thing. Blade flurry you have to pay two mana to hero power and then Blade Flurry? That's 6 mana for dealing one damage to everything. Let’s say you Deadly poison then blade flurry that's 7 mana for 3 damage to other side of the board and you need two cards in order for this to go off. It’s just not fair.
You forgot to mention that since the nerf Blade Flurry no longer hits the enemy's face, unlike Consecration and Holy Nova... Blizzard really does hate Rogue.
HAVE THE REMOVAL, AoE AND WEAPONS FROM AAAALLLL THE CLASSES MOHAHAHA..
Oh Rogue mirror? Fuck you.
What good removal does Rogue have(sap is not really removal)? What good weapons does Rogue have? What good AOE does Rogue have? Id rather have one good card of those three rather than 3 shitty types of cards
There's a good solution for all of this: Stop spending money on the game until they start printing better cards for us.
Blizzard wants classes to fluctuate in power level over time, which is fine, but my spending patterns will fluctuate to match.
I want to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt, but it's really hard to get past some of the bullshit in these patch notes. Blizzard: When you say you are anti-OTK, and you nerf one OTK deck (Worgen) but leave another as-is (Anyfin), it's hard to take anything you say seriously.
There's a good solution for all of this: Stop spending money on the game until they start printing better cards for us.
Blizzard wants classes to fluctuate in power level over time, which is fine, but my spending patterns will fluctuate to match.
I want to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt, but it's really hard to get past some of the bullshit in these patch notes. Blizzard: When you say you are anti-OTK, and you nerf one OTK deck (Worgen) but leave another as-is (Anyfin), it's hard to take anything you say seriously.
agreed. I mean you have to play an entire game in order to go through that.
Rogue is one of the only classes left that requires skill. Miracle Rogue was powerful but still took skill. Now, not so much. Blizzard is really pushing the stealing cards too far. Sure, it's a fun concept but.. It's too random. It turns every game into an RNG clown fiesta. It kinds of reminds me of Evolve, it's gimmicky and all RNG. But you don't see Blizzard basing every Shaman card around Evolve, do you? It's like Blizzard got tired of always seeing Miracle Rogue so they shit all over the cards and turn the whole class into an RNG fiesta.
The worst part is that Blizzard knows these types of cards are bad. They made Nefarian and Burgle, and were they used? No. So who thought that they should give an already weak class useless cards. So seriously Blizzard, when are you going to get real and balance out the classes?
It's as dumb as trying to make Discard Warlock a thing. Oh...
I think you will always have some kind of theme that they are trying to push but I agree that roque is a little stupid. I would go as far as saying that without Purify, Ethereal Peddler would have been discussed way more because there are simply no ways to build a consistent decks around these cards.
Even with the current balance changes I am not sure that Blizzard got the message. Yes, Yogg is gone but we are going to see whether they will really start to cut back on RN based cards.
Karazhan really made me worry for Rogue's future.
Rogue is one of the only classes left that requires skill. Miracle Rogue was powerful but still took skill. Now, not so much. Blizzard is really pushing the stealing cards too far. Sure, it's a fun concept but.. It's too random. It turns every game into an RNG clown fiesta. It kinds of reminds me of Evolve, it's gimmicky and all RNG. But you don't see Blizzard basing every Shaman card around Evolve, do you? It's like Blizzard got tired of always seeing Miracle Rogue so they shit all over the cards and turn the whole class into an RNG fiesta.
The worst part is that Blizzard knows these types of cards are bad. They made Nefarian and Burgle, and were they used? No. So who thought that they should give an already weak class useless cards. So seriously Blizzard, when are you going to get real and balance out the classes?
It's as dumb as trying to make Discard Warlock a thing. Oh...
TIL miracle rogue takes skill
I dunno it's a lot of fun IMO. Been playing a N'Zoth Burgle homebrew a little. Usually the cards you steal are fairly useful, unless you're playing against a Priest(lol burgle rogue hard counter cause their cards suck). Got 2x Tirion Fordring and a Ragnaros Lightlord my last match against a Paladin. That was the sickest N'Zoth ever lol...
Next year, Blizz will push either Priest or Rogue. If Rogue, I hope they give more and better Combo cards. I miss this mechanic.
NA golden heroes: Hunter, and Rogue! Let's try for Paladin next!
How is Swashburglar more random than Novice Engineer? You don't control what you draw either.
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
Burgle Rogue is fine for shits and giggles, but I don't think that deck should be the 'identity' of Rogue. That would be so lame. Team 5 stubbornly continues to try and force feed us these 'archetypes' like Beast Druid or Discardlock.
Make the Card: The biggest thread on the site!
My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
Agreed, all these "get a random card" things are very unappealing. I think babbling book is a decent example of it done right and swashburglar etc good examples of it going to far.
The 1st step towards a better game is firing Mike Donais! We had enough of his "skillful" balances!
#FireMikeDonais
I am a huge Rouge fan since I started playing the game. I have a golden Rouge and love how challenging the class is. You could have 4 different ways to play a single turn but which one is the correct one? I love the amount of skill and thought it takes to plan out every turn and every move. When Oil rouge was a thing back when Blade Flurry was a thing (RIP Blade Flurry) it was the most fun I've had playing the game.
I just wanted to touch up really quick on Blade flurry. How can you destroy one of the only AOE cards for one class so much? I agree the card was really good but to just kill a card like that is stupid? Think about other AOE cards for other classes. Consecration; 4 mana deals two to everything. Holy Nova; 5 mana 2 damage to everything. lighting storm 5 mana 2-3 damage to every thing. Blade flurry you have to pay two mana to hero power and then Blade Flurry? That's 6 mana for dealing one damage to everything. Let’s say you Deadly poison then blade flurry that's 7 mana for 3 damage to other side of the board and you need two cards in order for this to go off. It’s just not fair. Rouge has gotten so many stupid cards and barley gets a single good card out of new sets, adventures. It relies so much on its class cards and cards from the basic set its annoying. When was the last time you saw a competitive rouge deck that didn't play two Backstab, two Deadly Posion two Eviscerate, two Sap, two SI:7 agent, two Prepeperation, two Fan of knives? Thats nearly half of almost all rouge decks being the exact same. These cards are good but there is nothing to replace them with. Same cards for over two years. So stop wasting our time and get back to the core of the class. Decent combo's and a class that actually requires thought and skill. If you want to make a simple play and pass class like shamen do that, but don't make a sexy bitch like Valeera suffer :)
When you talk about RNG it can either be good random or bad random. RGN for damage like Flamewaker or knife juggler is fine because you're pushing damage to the other side of the board. If you play minions or spells damage is being dealt. When it comes to RNG with cards that's another story. An example is Lock and Load. This card never took off because it would shit out random cards for hunter and most of the hunter cards sucked ass like cobra strike or misdirection. So when rouge comes along and is like "hey lets jump on the HUGE RNG train that is now Hearthstone!!!" (cabalist tomb, yogg, ect) I say stop. I do believe we need to draw the line somewhere. The game needs to get away from random bullshit (purify) and get back to making the game about skill. Turns that require though and not just playing over powered crap like 4 mana for a 7/7. Stop taking the easy way out and start putting more thought into the cards that you create.
I really think that people read far too much into Blizzard's efforts to round out certain components of a variety of classes to be at least options as "This is the only possible thing to do with the class."
Discard Warlock was something that's been toyed with in the past with cards like Fist of Jaraxxus but that alone doesn't make a discard deck viable, so they went ahead and made some cards that do help flesh it out. That doesn't mean you can expect every flipping card in the next big expansion to be discard based. The same is true of Rogue and stealing class cards. The same is true of Beast Druid. The same is true of control/spell hunter. The same is true of Pirate/Weapon warrior.
They seem like efforts to help make certain decks at least an option. The problem is the way things come out people see "Wow, the majority of the rogue cards in this *ADVENTURE* deal with stealing class cards, and we've had a few of those in recent expansions" or "Wow, they're really pushing beast druid" - it doesn't mean that's all you're ever going to get. In previous expansions things like Demonlock got pushed, but that's not really a huge archetype and never really became that. Things like Totem Shaman have been pushed and seem to some extent to still be in that category, but there still aren't a tremendous amount of decks running totem buffs.
I guess what I'm trying to say is don't think the sky is falling just yet. A batch of cards designed for a specific deck or style of deck does not mean you should expect that's all you'll get going forward.
Balancing busted cards version 1.0.
There's a good solution for all of this: Stop spending money on the game until they start printing better cards for us.
Blizzard wants classes to fluctuate in power level over time, which is fine, but my spending patterns will fluctuate to match.
I want to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt, but it's really hard to get past some of the bullshit in these patch notes. Blizzard: When you say you are anti-OTK, and you nerf one OTK deck (Worgen) but leave another as-is (Anyfin), it's hard to take anything you say seriously.
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#JeSuisFieryWarAxe!