Hearthpwn

Quote from NzlPapa >>

Quote from Komorebi3 >>

That's because undertaker was used on top of already T1 decks. Entomb isn't, YET. Now priests can't get anything good because if they get better it'll be completely broken. Such an amazing design space.

Also if Entomb is fair so was Undertaker. A priest who entombs an Ysera, Anub'Arak or Tirion will almost surely win the lategame because they both negated an enemy win condition and acquired one. In both cases drawing that card at the right moment is a sure win, even less in Undertaker's case because you could just silence it, whereas you will never get your card back with Entomb, and Undertaker needed to make your deck around it, Entomb just is yet another removal.

Major difference is how fast they are drawn/played. Undertaker was on board turn 1 giving you absolutely no time to react. Either you were lucky enough to get an answer in your starting hand (+ maybe first and second draw) or you lost because if you waited until turn 3 to clear it was already too late.

Even IF entomb is as broken as undertaker was (which it definitely isn't) you  have more time to react to it.

As others have said before, try to apply pressure and bait it out before you drop your win condition(s). If you can't do that it means you don't have board control and you know what happens when you lose board control against a priest? You lose the game. 

Keep in mind you dind't lose to entomb though. It just feels that way because you were desperately hoping that last threat you played would win you the game (or at least bring you back to it) when it gets easily dealt the salt level exponentially increases. 

Quote from Komorebi3 >>

Quote from NzlPapa >>

Quote from Komorebi3 >>

That's because undertaker was used on top of already T1 decks. Entomb isn't, YET. Now priests can't get anything good because if they get better it'll be completely broken. Such an amazing design space.

Also if Entomb is fair so was Undertaker. A priest who entombs an Ysera, Anub'Arak or Tirion will almost surely win the lategame because they both negated an enemy win condition and acquired one. In both cases drawing that card at the right moment is a sure win, even less in Undertaker's case because you could just silence it, whereas you will never get your card back with Entomb, and Undertaker needed to make your deck around it, Entomb just is yet another removal.

Major difference is how fast they are drawn/played. Undertaker was on board turn 1 giving you absolutely no time to react. Either you were lucky enough to get an answer in your starting hand (+ maybe first and second draw) or you lost because if you waited until turn 3 to clear it was already too late.

Even IF entomb is as broken as undertaker was (which it definitely isn't) you  have more time to react to it.

As others have said before, try to apply pressure and bait it out before you drop your win condition(s). If you can't do that it means you don't have board control and you know what happens when you lose board control against a priest? You lose the game. 

Keep in mind you dind't lose to entomb though. It just feels that way because you were desperately hoping that last threat you played would win you the game (or at least bring you back to it) when it gets easily dealt the salt level exponentially increases. 

 

 Considering priest has some of the most massive AOE clears ( Lightbomb and Auchenai + Circle ) in the game, how do I retain board control without dropping big threats again ? I'm playing dragon rogue, and I can tell you you nearly can't win without Ysera, Anub'Arak or a very good Chromagus. Anything not one of those will die to a single late game minion or almost any board clear.

Anybody claiming you can win against priest without dropping big threats as a control deck ( Except warrior which nowadays can just wait out their opponent dying from fatigue ), which ALWAYS relies on said big threats to win, has never played against a priest.

Quote from NzlPapa >>

Quote from Komorebi3 >>

Quote from NzlPapa >>

Quote from Komorebi3 >>

That's because undertaker was used on top of already T1 decks. Entomb isn't, YET. Now priests can't get anything good because if they get better it'll be completely broken. Such an amazing design space.

Also if Entomb is fair so was Undertaker. A priest who entombs an Ysera, Anub'Arak or Tirion will almost surely win the lategame because they both negated an enemy win condition and acquired one. In both cases drawing that card at the right moment is a sure win, even less in Undertaker's case because you could just silence it, whereas you will never get your card back with Entomb, and Undertaker needed to make your deck around it, Entomb just is yet another removal.

Major difference is how fast they are drawn/played. Undertaker was on board turn 1 giving you absolutely no time to react. Either you were lucky enough to get an answer in your starting hand (+ maybe first and second draw) or you lost because if you waited until turn 3 to clear it was already too late.

Even IF entomb is as broken as undertaker was (which it definitely isn't) you  have more time to react to it.

As others have said before, try to apply pressure and bait it out before you drop your win condition(s). If you can't do that it means you don't have board control and you know what happens when you lose board control against a priest? You lose the game. 

Keep in mind you dind't lose to entomb though. It just feels that way because you were desperately hoping that last threat you played would win you the game (or at least bring you back to it) when it gets easily dealt the salt level exponentially increases. 

 

 Considering priest has some of the most massive AOE clears ( Lightbomb and Auchenai + Circle ) in the game, how do I retain board control without dropping big threats again ? I'm playing dragon rogue, and I can tell you you nearly can't win without Ysera, Anub'Arak or a very good Chromagus. Anything not one of those will die to a single late game minion or almost any board clear.

Anybody claiming you can win against priest without dropping big threats as a control deck ( Except warrior which nowadays can just wait out their opponent dying from fatigue ), which ALWAYS relies on said big threats to win, has never played against a priest.

 I'm sorry if I was not clear enough. Off course you have to drop threats to apply pressure but if you have to force him to entomb your midgame threats instead of your win conditions. A priest will ideally  save entomb for your biggest bombs but what will happen if you drop a thaurrisan and the priest doesn't have another answer in his hand? He'll entomb it! He won't let it live just to save an entomb.

That's what I meant. If your win condition is to exaust your opponent's removal and drop ysera or anub'arak for infinite value try to make him 'waste' his entombs on other cards like thaurrisan, boom, ragnaros, nefarian, alex or whatever else you play.

If your deck doens't apply enough pression midgame and it runs few late game threats you are screwed against priest. 

Except no deck can realistically do that AND fare even remotely well in a temp oriented meta. Having even 2 late game threats is already pretty insane for any deck nowadays, and no, Entomb isn't the only removal priests have, they have SW:D, Vol'Jin, Lightbomb and sometimes even Holy Fire.

Seriously, look up any control priest decklist and you'll realize someone would need at least 5 mid-late game threats to even remotely hope having one stick ( And even then good luck maintaining pressure on a control deck with a measly 5/5 ), which simply isn't possible ; Even control warrior doesn't.

Control priest is only kept in check by the dominance of tempo decks, but any control mirror is nigh-unwinnable against them.

I agree with every point you made but I want to point out that priest has been the king of late game for as far as I've played this game. That heavy control priest with 2x entombs you described is a very greedy deck and in a control vs control match up the greediest deck (in general) has the upper-hand.

If you tech too much early game in order to do well in what you've called "the dominance of tempo decks" you will lose to greedier decks. That's just how hearthstone is: you sacrifice some match ups to be better in others. I bet those greedy priest decks have a harder time in this meta than you (specially if they don't draw their deathlords). I haven't played control priest lately but I bet these new reno decks might challenge them even late game.

I still don't think entomb is the problem.

Quote from NzlPapa >>

I agree with every point you made but I want to point out that priest has been the king of late game for as far as I've played this game. That heavy control priest with 2x entombs you described is a very greedy deck and in a control vs control match up the greediest deck (in general) has the upper-hand.

If you tech too much early game in order to do well in what you've called "the dominance of tempo decks" you will lose to greedier decks. That's just how hearthstone is: you sacrifice some match ups to be better in others. I bet those greedy priest decks have a harder time in this meta than you (specially if they don't draw their deathlords). I haven't played control priest lately but I bet these new reno decks might challenge them even late game.

I still don't think entomb is the problem.

When I say greedy I mean "contains a lot of cards that are more impactful in the late game".

Holy fire is 6 mana, vol'jin + holy nova is 10 mana, lightbomb is 6 mana, entomb is 6 mana. Most of these cards are included to make your late game stronger but if this is all your late game you'll get crushed by heavy control decks.

I sometimes run a sort of anti-aggro priest and my list runs 2x entombs and 2x SWD to help against control but I'll mostly still get outgunned by any heavy control deck (handlock, freeze mage, control priest, control warrior, reno decks).

Against not so heavy control decks that only run 2-3 big guys (which seems to be the case of your dragon rogue) I'll usually win though, but my deck was built to counter those decks so I guess it's fair.

Entomb still only goes so far as you will most likely only draw one if the game doesn't go super late. If your deck doesn't have enough big guys to "have one of them stick" consider adding other tools to help you win late game or consider ending the game faster.