I think Priests just needs to realize what type of class they play and how to build according to the meta's need. If you fill your entire deck with boardclears, you will struggle against control match ups. Likewise, if you have too much single removal, you will struggle against faster decks. I think most current priest decks floating around are simply "unbalanced" in that department and need refinement. Priest doesn't struggle with "not working", but with "working consistently".
It is highly unlikely that they will buff any classic/basic cards, no point in even suggesting changes there, IMO.
They really needed to stop making the class expansion/adventure cards unusable crap.
The problem with priest is not getting early aoe. They have a 2 mana 2 card 4 damage to all minions. Early aoe isn't the problem. More cards like circle would help priest a lot (4 activities, but only 2 cards out of 30 to activate... Consistency is obviously going to be a problem.)
Priest's biggest issue, IMO, is the lack of card draw. Took many cards promoting card advantage, but not enough cards that let you access the tools in your own deck.
I like your suggestion to introduce cards that complements solid priest cards like Auchenai synergy but 2 card sweeper is too situational. Thats the problem with priests you have to have the right card or cards for the right moment.
You say it's too situational, but if you want efficiently mana costs and powerful effects, ten you must live with situational combos.
Execute wouldn't be nearly as great if warrior didn't have (at least) 4 great pings to activate it. Same with shield slam. People act like those cards are so OP, but they are also situational. The difference between warrior and priest is that warrior doesn't rely on a specific 2 card combo to get that desired effect. They have made enough synergistic cards for warrior's "situational" control cards that they aren't simply spending every game hoping for 2 specific cards out of 30 by turn 4.
The thing about Embrace the Shadow combos (removal/sweeper) is you spend more resources for the same effect of standalone cards and you said yourself that priest needed card draw. They wouldn't desperately need draw if they have efficient standalone cards. I kinda like the playstyle where priest get card advantage through trading and heals. I think adding cycle cards would be sufficient for their card draw needs. Comparing Shieldslam and Execute isn't fair because they're both very efficient. Warrior pings or cards with whirlwind effects are versatile can be used all through out. Using an auchenai/embrace + CoH for sweeps is pretty much useless or risky if you don't have one of the combo piece. Embrace the Shadow alone has very limited use, so is CoH. So without each other they can sit for a while on your hand. IMO adding more situational/reactive cards will not help priest. Priest have enough of them.
The many reasons Priests are terrible at the moment:
Unlike what OP said, Priest is *too* reliant on combo. Many of their cards do almost nothing on their own. So many games, you have circle, but are just waiting around to draw Auchenai or you die. Also, many combo pieces do nothing on their own. They have no value outside of the combo. Embrace the Shadows does nothing on it own. Flash heal does almost nothing on it's own.
Along these lines, Priest lack threat density mostly because Priests need to carry so many combo pieces, there just isn't enough room to carry too many threatening minions.
No early game. In order to get value from Priest's hero power, you need something to stick on the board with more than 2 health and have it survive. Dragon Priest can accomplish this, but there are no other archetypes that can challenge the early game.
Along those line, Northshire used to be good in classic set. The 3 health was hard to deal with in the early turns. However, zoo, shaman, or 3 attack weapons easily kill it these days. It provides no board presence anymore.
No comeback mechanisms. This is what Lightbomb did so well. Once you loose the early game, which is most of the time, there's no good way to clear the board.
Priest actually don't have enough healing. When they get low on health in the mid-game, they can't heal up fast enough to avoid burst. It used to be a joke that Paladins could heal better than the class that supposedly specialized in healing. Then, Priests got Flash Heal and Justicar and they were the best healers again. But now, Paladins have Forbidden Healing and Rag the Lightlord and once again, they are the kings of survivability. Rag would actually be a perfect Priest card. It's everything Lightwell should be (has attack, heals at the end of the turn, not the start of the next one), but Pally's got it.
Solutions:
Priests need some minions that generate tempo on their own and are not situational. Something that can be played when you're ahead or behind. This will allow priests to be more proactive and replace situational combos. Positive Example, Dark Cultist. Negative Example, Shifting Shade. This card provides value, but not tempo. Doesn't help you with board control.
Card Draw that doesn't depend on having board control. Sucks to have to play Northshire and heal an enemy minion when desperate for a specific card. That, or have to carry a pyro/circle and hope you have them both when you need them at the same time your opponent has stuff on the board.
Go play wild. Its like travelling back in time to like...2 months ago....when priests destroyed every single control deck they came across. Your problem here is you believe standard means something or is something other than a cash grab to keep you on an endless tradmill of buying new cards as they are released. It is not improving gameplay, it is in fact, pure greed. And most of the Hearthstone fanbois fell for it.
Go play wild. Its like travelling back in time to like...2 months ago....when priests destroyed every single control deck they came across. Your problem here is you believe standard means something or is something other than a cash grab to keep you on an endless tradmill of buying new cards as they are released. It is not improving gameplay, it is in fact, pure greed. And most of the Hearthstone fanbois fell for it.
I'm almost an f2p player, bought a couple of packs for the Mekkatorque promo on open beta or launch but thats it. Almost playing exclusively Standard now. It's a good option for those who want a different experience free of Dr. Boom, Shredders, Belchers and all of the other OP cards. Never bought a single non-classic and I'm at the point that I can sustain myself. Its really easy once you have all of the important cards. When Blizz starts teaser for an expanion I start saving gold. I have managed to save 4k gold and now I've got all of the important cards for WoTOG. If blizzard release an expansion wild players also buy tons of packs so what you're saying doesn't make any sense.
It's funny of all the cards to say priest needs you say LOH. Which goes against your fatigue plan, which heals VERY low for it's cost, is a huge tempo loss, and in general is regarded as a weak card and that's why paladins play forbidden healing over it.
Now, despite how situational those cards are, it's what they have. Warriors, which are doing very well right now, their primary source of draw is battle rage which incase you wern't aware is EVEN MORE situational. What makes priest half way decent is that yes, if you have circle but not priestess... you can't draw... but since you still have embrance / auchinai you have a huge board clear.
I think an interesting addition to the priest style would be something like a "3 mana 4/3- has no maximum health." As soon as this minion is played it appears damaged, and can be healed infinitely. While it's always vulnerable to execute, it helps with the board presence priest that Blizzard seems to be trying for.
Also, something like "3 mana heal your minions for 2, draw a card for each minion healed" could be helpful for draw and board presence synergy. I think draw is really important for priest with their combo nature, but there needs to be a more efficient archetype that could have cards like this without worrying about overdraw.
It's funny of all the cards to say priest needs you say LOH. Which goes against your fatigue plan, which heals VERY low for it's cost, is a huge tempo loss, and in general is regarded as a weak card and that's why paladins play forbidden healing over it.
Now, despite how situational those cards are, it's what they have. Warriors, which are doing very well right now, their primary source of draw is battle rage which incase you wern't aware is EVEN MORE situational. What makes priest half way decent is that yes, if you have circle but not priestess... you can't draw... but since you still have embrance / auchinai you have a huge board clear.
I only mentioned lay of hands for the non-situational card draw - draw 3 cards for priest is a pretty big deal, considering you are lucky to draw one or two cards with the traditional methods (that no longer work). Priest does need some heavy duty heal spells, though - and not something as lame as flash heal. Flash heal would have been a decent card if it was recover 5 health and draw a card, but no, the only cards that do that are the crappy power word shield (which used to be a good card) and mass dispel (which has never been a good card).
As for Warrior card draw, don't even go there - while his card draw may be situational, he has so many tools to make it happen. And then he gets to draw a card for each damaged friendly minion. Comparing Warrior's so called situational cards versus priest's is comparing apples to oranges. If Priest could draw even a fraction of what the Warrior could, we would not even be having this conversation right now. Priest has, literally, ZERO reliable card draw. If you do not mulligan your hand from the get-go, you are going to die a miserable death. It does not help matters any that Priest also no longer has any 2 OR 3 drops. So even if you do mulligan a bunch of semi-decent neutrals, the deck is stacked against you, and you are going to die a miserable death because the nincompoop's at Activision don't know how to make new cards, much less balance them. Dark Arakkoa is a perfect example of a card that wasn't thought out very well. 5/7 stats for 6 mana is pretty insane by itself, but it also gives a +3/+3 to C'thun and it's a taunt! What the hell!? That card costs way too little for those stats - it should be a 9 or 10 mana card. Or, at the very least, it should be a PUNISHMENT card and be -3/-3 to C'thun.
The person who comes up with these cards is a blatant moron.
I think Priests just needs to realize what type of class they play and how to build according to the meta's need. If you fill your entire deck with boardclears, you will struggle against control match ups. Likewise, if you have too much single removal, you will struggle against faster decks. I think most current priest decks floating around are simply "unbalanced" in that department and need refinement. Priest doesn't struggle with "not working", but with "working consistently".
You aren't incorrect in your description of single minded deck builds. However priest has no "type" as was mentioned earlier comparing the niche builds of other classes. The struggle with 'working consistently' as you pointed out, Is in part what this thread is based on. if priest were consistent then there would be no reason to think that a fix is needed. Priest is missing elements to make is consistent for aggro, combo, control, fatigue or what ever meta is deemed current.
C'thun DrD/War is more consistent then priest. Aggro Shmn/Lock is more consistent. Yogg priest isn't even a thing. And that's just a few examples for current meta.
Priest does hold its own up to a point on ladder, but its so far and few between that the class has become luck/grind based rather then skill based. Finding future cards to help fill in holes to make it more consistent doesn't seem out of place.
However as some people have asked for - priest doesn't need a power play overhaul, just some smoothing out.
The problem is Blizzard needs to STOP printing these situational, reactive bullshit cards for Priest and START printing from decent standalone early game cards that don't rely on some woowoo bullshit 2nd condition to be effective. Priest was in a *ok* place when Cultist was the best 3drop in HS, then we also had Gelbin and Velens to help with early tempo. Now all that is gone and we have garbage like Word Horror and Word Tentacles.
I think Blizzard's mistake was, they VASTLY overestimated a slower meta and purposely did not want Priest very strong because they have so much power in a ctrl vs ctrl meta. As it turned out, the meta actually got faster than it was before and now there's no time to play any of later game Priest cards. The thing that really upsets me is, they recently acknowledged the problem but don't want to do anything about it because they are waiting for players to innovate a new, good Priest deck on their own. That's the stupidest thing ever, some new wonder build that returns the class to greatness isn't going to happen because they didn't give us the tools to do it.
I currently have 247 wins with priest, and ever since the Old Gods expansion came out, I haven't even touched my priest decks or played priest at all. it seems like all the priest cards are going to complete garbage.. hopefully Priest can gain its reign again.
I currently have 247 wins with priest, and ever since the Old Gods expansion came out, I haven't even touched my priest decks or played priest at all. it seems like all the priest cards are going to complete garbage.. hopefully Priest can gain its reign again.
It's not looking very likely at this point - the reason being, of course, is priest's basic/classic cards SUCK and cost too much for what they do. Priest needs a complete overhaul, NOT new cards.
Shrifting Shade?? it is pretty good, but statwise, it is much worse than Undercity Huckster. Dark Cultist probably was they only minion that had solid stats for cost and an additional effect (and it got removed). And also, no Velen's Chosen.
The current priest is more like thief... you steal your opponent's cards because yours sucks...
There is no need to change the current priest set to make it more viable, we priest just need some more reliable options in early game. Some OP turn 2 for exemple, Priest never had a turn 2 which is effective on T2. Wyrmrest Agent is good but yeah dragons...
I play since the seventh season and Priest never was dominant in the meta, while all the other classes have been op at some point. Don't wonder why there is this cliché of the crying priest, we deserve better lol
They play a 3/2, you play this and they have a 2/2 and you have a 3/3. Combo with SW:P, SW:H, Cabal. Lets you kill fatties with your small attack dragons. You want Priest to be good, give them Panda Priest!
If blizzard stops giving high health low cost options to aggro like darkshire council man and flameweather faceless everything would be fine. Cards like these have made board clears a joke. The only class that is effectively dealing with them is warrior. Whirlwind effects and execute.. The meta would have been a lot more diverse if not for these kind of cards. Aggro kills mid range. Mid range kills control. Control kills aggro. This is how it should have worked. The only mid range deck that is seen is Hunter because of its favourable matchup against warrior.
Mind Vision and Thoughtsteal NEED to go back to the way they were originally intended - instead of simply copying cards and putting them in your hand, they copy and REMOVE those cards from the opponent's deck.
That change, alone, would make priest a contender.
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http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/class-discussion/priest/158904-how-to-buff-priest
By the way, why Blizzard dont buff old cards? It will be good idea, especially for priest. For instance, reduce mana cost.
Yes, zombie chow too, the best 1 drop for control players is gone, the aggro have insany good minions for early game.
I think Priests just needs to realize what type of class they play and how to build according to the meta's need. If you fill your entire deck with boardclears, you will struggle against control match ups. Likewise, if you have too much single removal, you will struggle against faster decks. I think most current priest decks floating around are simply "unbalanced" in that department and need refinement. Priest doesn't struggle with "not working", but with "working consistently".
The many reasons Priests are terrible at the moment:
Solutions:
give them a 7/7 for 4 mana kappa
Go play wild. Its like travelling back in time to like...2 months ago....when priests destroyed every single control deck they came across. Your problem here is you believe standard means something or is something other than a cash grab to keep you on an endless tradmill of buying new cards as they are released. It is not improving gameplay, it is in fact, pure greed. And most of the Hearthstone fanbois fell for it.
It's funny of all the cards to say priest needs you say LOH. Which goes against your fatigue plan, which heals VERY low for it's cost, is a huge tempo loss, and in general is regarded as a weak card and that's why paladins play forbidden healing over it.
Now, despite how situational those cards are, it's what they have. Warriors, which are doing very well right now, their primary source of draw is battle rage which incase you wern't aware is EVEN MORE situational. What makes priest half way decent is that yes, if you have circle but not priestess... you can't draw... but since you still have embrance / auchinai you have a huge board clear.
I think an interesting addition to the priest style would be something like a "3 mana 4/3- has no maximum health." As soon as this minion is played it appears damaged, and can be healed infinitely. While it's always vulnerable to execute, it helps with the board presence priest that Blizzard seems to be trying for.
Also, something like "3 mana heal your minions for 2, draw a card for each minion healed" could be helpful for draw and board presence synergy. I think draw is really important for priest with their combo nature, but there needs to be a more efficient archetype that could have cards like this without worrying about overdraw.
Cute, ineffective, but cute.
The problem is Blizzard needs to STOP printing these situational, reactive bullshit cards for Priest and START printing from decent standalone early game cards that don't rely on some woowoo bullshit 2nd condition to be effective. Priest was in a *ok* place when Cultist was the best 3drop in HS, then we also had Gelbin and Velens to help with early tempo. Now all that is gone and we have garbage like Word Horror and Word Tentacles.
I think Blizzard's mistake was, they VASTLY overestimated a slower meta and purposely did not want Priest very strong because they have so much power in a ctrl vs ctrl meta. As it turned out, the meta actually got faster than it was before and now there's no time to play any of later game Priest cards. The thing that really upsets me is, they recently acknowledged the problem but don't want to do anything about it because they are waiting for players to innovate a new, good Priest deck on their own. That's the stupidest thing ever, some new wonder build that returns the class to greatness isn't going to happen because they didn't give us the tools to do it.
I currently have 247 wins with priest, and ever since the Old Gods expansion came out, I haven't even touched my priest decks or played priest at all. it seems like all the priest cards are going to complete garbage.. hopefully Priest can gain its reign again.
Priests need better class card minions-
Shrifting Shade?? it is pretty good, but statwise, it is much worse than Undercity Huckster. Dark Cultist probably was they only minion that had solid stats for cost and an additional effect (and it got removed). And also, no Velen's Chosen.
The current priest is more like thief... you steal your opponent's cards because yours sucks...
There is no need to change the current priest set to make it more viable, we priest just need some more reliable options in early game. Some OP turn 2 for exemple, Priest never had a turn 2 which is effective on T2. Wyrmrest Agent is good but yeah dragons...
I play since the seventh season and Priest never was dominant in the meta, while all the other classes have been op at some point. Don't wonder why there is this cliché of the crying priest, we deserve better lol
They play a 3/2, you play this and they have a 2/2 and you have a 3/3. Combo with SW:P, SW:H, Cabal. Lets you kill fatties with your small attack dragons. You want Priest to be good, give them Panda Priest!
Galavant Animation
If blizzard stops giving high health low cost options to aggro like darkshire council man and flameweather faceless everything would be fine. Cards like these have made board clears a joke. The only class that is effectively dealing with them is warrior. Whirlwind effects and execute.. The meta would have been a lot more diverse if not for these kind of cards. Aggro kills mid range. Mid range kills control. Control kills aggro. This is how it should have worked. The only mid range deck that is seen is Hunter because of its favourable matchup against warrior.
Mind Vision and Thoughtsteal NEED to go back to the way they were originally intended - instead of simply copying cards and putting them in your hand, they copy and REMOVE those cards from the opponent's deck.
That change, alone, would make priest a contender.