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The thing that baffles me is why they even made the change in the first place. Eve then the Paladin Secrets weren't good, but situational as hell and made some fun gimmick decks. Now they aren't even worth it to use as a gimmick. The change really didn't affect anyone else for that matter.
Whenever you face a Paladin there is a 90% chance that it is Noble Sacrifice. Hell, Noble Sacrifice could have just been a 1 Mana with the same effect and be more interesting because you could buff it. I don't even think my suggestions would be that overpowered.
Redemption is a 1 Mana less Ancestral Spirit, in which the enemy can choose the guy that gets revived. Even then no Shamans use Ancestral Spirit.
Repentance isn't OP as you can counteract it. However the Silence doesn't affect battlecries, because that would be a bit OP in my mind. The fact that it can take Charge away is good enough I believe.
Eye for an Eye is a decision made for the opponent. I could stop attacking him, but what if he heals all the way back up, now I basically did the damage to myself!
Also the Light's Justice change is needed for some early game removal on the Paladin's part, it wouldn't even be that bad. The enemies would still be able to hurt you, but that extra protection would make using the Light's Justice worth it.
Because several of them were being used as spells not secrets and were consequently getting incredibly good value for cost.
Also, shaman definitely do run Ancestral Spirit (though mostly in Taunt, Charge, Divine Shield, or Deathrattle heavy decks).
This is great, now the Shaman gets an excellent card which is basically Ancestral Spirit that is 10X better.
Paladins need these buffs now. They are by far the hardest class to play as, and as the least amount of viable class cards.
Honestly, I think the devs have gone a little overboard with their boosts to Shaman.
In addition to giving the Shaman a 2nd ancestral spirit card, they're buffing the effects of the current ancestral spirit so that rebirths can stack to produce multiple copies of the original card.
This is going to make Shaman very nasty for a season or two - but I suspect that it will eventually result in Shaman being hit with a rather significant NERF bat.
Why do Paladins even have secrets ffs, it doesn't make any sense in the lore and it doesn't particularly fit with the rest of the class cards, even outside of the fact that they are terrible.
Each new Naxx card for other classes just makes Avenge look like more and more of a nerf to Paladin.
Obviously Blizz are pthinking to themselve,s oh these whiners, wait till they see what you can do with Avenge and deathrattle minions! The problem is that 1/ the buff is random, so to be sure of getting that use you need nothing else on the board 2/ we already have powerful buffslike BoM and BoK and they haven't broght us much success, why would one random applied be useful? Because you can use it in the early game? It will simply succumb to silence or removal, two things that we STILL lack and 3/ as a secret that procs on a single target, just like our other secrets it can be easily worked around by the opponent, if you don't want an 11/10 molten giant,kill the giant and leave them with a 4/3 recruit, big deal in the late game and yet more anti-syngergy with our hero power making it even less viable during later turns.
I can't help but feel like whoever is in charge of the Paladin in Team 5 just cannot be bothered, the inclusion of secrets in the first place feels lazy and the inclusion of another in Naxx just stinks of blatant disregard for the fact that we have all been complaining about secrets for months and crying out for removal/debuffs which are instead handed to other classes that already have options!
All that quoting for a simple +1
'Go home and be a family man!'
Decks (Current as of 12/28):
Sonic boom! | Iron Juggernaut | Rogue
1) What are you talking about? No 1 Mana card deals 4 damage. Unless you are talking about LIGHTS Justice. Light's Justice is still horrible because most drops have 2 health, you would be taking double damage. Just INCREASE the mana cost to 2 and make you immune while attacking. Now it is a good card.
2) HE DOESN'T have deadly poison, so your point is super invalid. Why would you even say that?
2?) Redemption used to be a good card when you could activate it on your turn. However now that it has to be activated on the enemy's turn, it is near worthless. The enemy can just attack your weakest minion,
3) Repentance is horrible. The fact that it brings it down to 1 health doesn't change anything. Your Hero Power couldn't even kill it on the same turn it is summoned. The silence will have a lot more strategy and planning. It also stops charge creatures which is very cool, something that the Paladin doesn't have.
4) The fact is that no one plays anything besides Noble for a reason. The other cards USED to be a neat situational secret, but now they are just bad that you cannot use them on your turn. The reason why these cards are so bad is because the enemy can choose which cards get revived and who gets down to 1 health.
5) These cards are not great in aggro at all. Eye for an Eye is worthless, Repentance is to random for it to matter, and Redemption is way to easy to counter with a hero power.
1) It still is a bad card that I see no one ever use. Making it a 2 Mana that is immune when attacking is perfectly balanced.
2) Stop calling it Knights Justice. Its Lights Justice. It wouldn't be brokenly good. Paladin doesn't have any cards that buff his attack of the weapon. He would only be able to use 2 cards, Spiteful Smith and Greenskin. Which would still be balanced in my eyes.
2?) It isn't a fair card, the fact is that the opponent can choose which minions to bring back to life. Also it is easy to spot and counteract, this also goes along with Repentance and Eye for an Eye.
3) Hunter's Mark is a 0 Mana that you can CHOOSE the person that gets brought down to 1 health. That just goes to show how underpowered Repentance is. It should be my suggestion because it can be both played around, but useful in situations.
4) The thing is that, would you rather put this in your deck over a Chillwind or another great minion? I would say no, so thats that.
5) They are also horrible in control, none of these secrets are useless in anyway other than to slightly annoy the opponent. If every case I would use a good card like chillwind instead of one of the secrets, except for Noble and the new Avenge which are GOOD paladin secrets.
Yet more reasons not to use our hero ability. At this point we are better off without a hero ability at all, it actually has negative synergy with half the bloody class cards we are supposed to make use of. Awful awful awful design.
It's a pretty enormous hamstring to have a hero ability that actually causes you more harm than good a lot of the time, and at best does 1 damage that can't bypass taunts on the following turn lol.
Especially when you're competing against a class that can armour up by 2 and deal damage based on it's armour, and a class that can frigging draw cards immediately with it's hero ability!
Warrior can do damage based on its armor precisely twice, and only use it to target minions. If you've flooded your board with small stuff, shield slam is kind of a wasted card.
Still better than a wisp with summoning sickness.
now that's a solid suggestion. thumbs up!
The problem is that our hero power has anti synergy with Now two of our secrets.
Don't you think we should have these cards you mention already? When other classes have such powerful combos, ours just feel thrown together without thought and we are left waiting for new cards to make our very hero power worth using. We're already coming up to the first injection of new cards and the class card there hasn't done it, another secret that is exactly symptomatic of all the issues we've been raising for months.
If this existed if that existed.. Of course, if Paladin had different class cards, it would be a better class, that's exactly what we're asking Blizzard to do, fix our class cards, or at least start by not making the first new class card in the game a useless non-entity like some of the others.
I appreciate you're looking on the bright side but we're all agreeing with the deficiencies and highly situational dream scenarios aren't going to change that.
And on T3 you can Pop a reinforce and kill a 3-drop with it.
By the time T4 rolls around you'll have a fairly massive board advantage. Remeber what Dr_Smash said about how easy it would be to make Light's Justice OP - this is one of those.
The Silver Hand Recruit has positive synergy with Noble Sacrifice + Avenge when put together: If you have a secret out, your opponent wants to play around Noble Sacrifice by attacking with the least impactful attack first (IE hitting the 1/1), but if you have Avenge out you want to hit the most important target first and give the buff to the 1/1. And frankly Avenge hitting a Recruit isn't a bad deal: It's essentially a 3 mana 4/3 for 1 card. And of course combining the two is both low cost, pretty great and not situational. Redemption also isn't a bad secret, but it probably doesn't fit in a Noble Sacrifice/Avenge deck. (Though it does work quite well if you Divine Shield it up and with Tirion/Legendaries and you can bluff it by not using your hero power)
The Paladin Secrets that are bad are mostly Eye For An Eye and Repentance: Repentance isn't bad but it's usually an Execute that you can't control and Eye For An Eye is just bad. But Noble Sacrifice/Redemption/Avenge all have some uses. Hunter secrets were once considered kinda bad too, to my knowledge, it wouldn't surprise me if Pally secrets end up a bit better than expected.
That's a 4/3 for 2 cards that trades unfavourable with a 2 mana 3/2. As with the other secrets it is basically just offering your opponent a 2-for-1.
Its also relies on getting a minion or guy out plus another guy, so you're talking about turn 3 or 4 before it even procs.
And that's the ideal situation, when the dream isn't even any good then you know there's a problem.
It's so great that Mages get a card that would potentially change the whole way they play. It shows that the Paladin got the short end of the stick when it comes to Naxxramas.
I was watching Raynad play that Mid-Range Paladin and he brings up some points. Paladin is SO close to becoming viable, but a lot of his cards are't great. I think the changes Is suggested would push Paladin over that threshold and allow some great viable decks.
Also I nerfed Humility to 2-mana because I think that's a bit to much value, but now it is still worth it.
The Paladin secret is going to be great for rush. The Mage secret is not. 3-mana is a pretty serious tempo hit for something that does not immediately impact the board... and while Kirin Tor could mitigate that cost the odds of having Kirin Tor and a secret in hand at the same time while still being able to play in a mana-efficient manner over the previous two turns and not open up a counter-play is asking quite a lot.
But the thing is that it is a secret. You might not expect to play around it. You might trigger it thinking it is an ice block instead, and now the Mage has an extra 2 Yeti's in her hand.
The problem with Paladin's secrets is that they are predictable, the exact opposite of what a secret is supposed to be.