So this season I've been trying to make legend playing a non-typical deck. I've failed with a couple other decks and I'm currently playing an Anyfin Paladin OTK deck and i've been fluttering between Rank 5 and Rank 3.
First of all, I saw the streamer "Dog" play an Anyfin deck to legendary a season ago. I believe for a while he was using a Reno Anyfin deck, but then once he hit legend I saw him using a non Reno 2x Anyfin deck. Not sure what he actually took from rank 2 to legend though. Regardless the meta has changed since last season since the LoE expansion has fully been revealed. So let's focus on right now and not even last season.
My general game plan with Anyfin: Take a well known and consistent Mid Range Paladin deck that's solid, and make slight altercations to be an Anyfin OTK deck.
-Remove 2x knife juggler, add in 2x Bluegill. -Remove Blessing of Kings and 1x Truesilver, add in 2x Warleader -Remove Justicar, Tirion, Dr Boom, and add in Old Murc-eye, 2x Anyfin -Remove cards like Owl, Quartermaster, Loatheb, and start adding in cards that Draw.
You'll end up with something like this my deck below..
When I win games, i'm typically facing control oriented decks. I'm actually smashing them to oblivion. When I see a Priest I even open emote "Sorry" because it's basically the Freeze mage vs Control Warrior matchup. They have no chance. But when I lose games, it's typically to face oriented aggro decks like Face Hunter or Aggro Shaman.
Here's what i've noticed:
When I win: -I win the early game and take board control -My draws hit and i cycle cards during the mid-late game -Or Im simply playing against priest or control warrior (opponents who don’t stand much of a chance at beating Anyfin)
When I lose: -I get stuck with 2x Lay on Hands or 2x Anyfin in my hand very early in the game and can’t do jack -I can’t draw any cards and run out of gas. -I play against face hunter (can’t seem to beat them, period)
Anyway, i'm fluttering around a 50% win rate and I'd like some input from you guys. I'm trying to improve this deck and push it to legend before this season is over. Any suggestions? I personally am hating the 2x Lay on Hands right now. I've gotten stuck with both of them in my hand very early in the game very many times against aggro. I'm not sure if it's bad luck or if that's my sign to simply cut one of them for another lower mana card because we're in an aggro meta. Thoughts on that? This deck really needs draw power to make the combo, and I feel like the 1x Blessing of Wisdom has done VERY well for me. But I'm not so sure I'd go as far as making it a 2x. And I'm not so sure cutting the 2nd Lay on Hands for a Healbot makes any sense. I'm thinking either cut it for either Loatheb, or Shredder, or possibly another draw card like a 2nd Blessing of Wisdom or even a 2nd Solemn Vigil.
I think the strongest Anyfin deck currently in existence is the control one that focuses solely on the double Anyfin combo as finisher and does not attempt to be a midrange deck as well. Neviilz's list is probably the standard such deck list at the moment:
As far as I know, attempts to make a midrange-combo version have so far failed, because in order to run your combo, you sacrifice too much of the midrange goodies and have a hard time competing for the board against both aggro and midrange decks, thus not living long enough to actually play your combo. I don't happen to have a silver bullet in my pocket for how to fix this, but perhaps you might also consider other Anyfin approaches beside midrange.
I was wondering what is the game plan when two Murloc Paladins play vs each other? Keep Coin so you first can play Anyfin can happen, Not play any murlocs unless you have The Coin?
You lack double healbot in your deck, pyros to combo with Equality, 1x Refreshment Vendor is good to have too. Put that, and your matchup vs Aggro will be much better.
I also don't like double Lay on Hands. But why you no double solemn vigil?
Just posting my deck in case you want some ideas, I'm not a legend player, tho it works fine for me.
@Old_Guardian: I see what you're saying. That's the trouble I'm running into, i'm cutting out some key mid range paladin cards and failing at what mid range paladin does best vs many aggro/tempo decks. I'll give this deck a shot, it's more of an all in with drawing and healing.
I may run 2x Belcher and 1x Healbot instead of the other way around, but i'll give this list a go before I decide. I can see the Doomsayers as being a good run in this deck. I've never considered it because anytime I've ever had a mirror match, my mid range anyfin has always beaten this heal/doom sayer anyfin. Could be luck or could just be a good matchup, not sure. But regardless, that's not a reason to not consider something (just because it's bad at one matchup)
@needmoredesu: I was trying to avoid double healbot and going with mid range cards like 2x Belcher and 1x Coghammer and going for board control early with Shielded Minibot and Muster for Battle. I left out healbot on purpose trying to play it as if it's Mid Range Paladin.
I'll try out 2x Solemn Vigil for sure.
Thoughts on Hammer of Wrath? How has it played for you? I see it as basically a darkbomb + life tap rolled into one card, which is okay.
I may run 2x Belcher and 1x Healbot instead of the other way around, but i'll give this list a go before I decide. I can see the Doomsayers as being a good run in this deck. I've never considered it because anytime I've ever had a mirror match, my mid range anyfin has always beaten this heal/doom sayer anyfin.
When it comes anyfin vs anyfin decks. Doesn't it come down to who plays it first? Any combination of 7 murlocs is 30+ damage unless opponent has a taunt, and even then it's very likely to be lethal. Let's say I don't have Coghammer, Truesilver Championequiped then 2 Bluegill Warriors, 3 Murloc Warleader and 2 Old Murk-Eye are 28 damage.
I may run 2x Belcher and 1x Healbot instead of the other way around, but i'll give this list a go before I decide. I can see the Doomsayers as being a good run in this deck. I've never considered it because anytime I've ever had a mirror match, my mid range anyfin has always beaten this heal/doom sayer anyfin.
When it comes anyfin vs anyfin decks. Doesn't it come down to who plays it first? Any combination of 7 murlocs is 30+ damage unless opponent has a taunt, and even then it's very likely to be lethal. Let's say I don't have Coghammer, Truesilver Championequiped then 2 Bluegill Warriors, 3 Murloc Warleader and 2 Old Murk-Eye are 28 damage.
Not necessarily who plays it first, but who plays it with lethal. There are a lot of situations where you'll hit turn 10 with Anyfin in your hand and only have seen 1 or 2 murlocs die. It happens more often then you'd think.
I have played about two dozen games with 2x Solem Vigil and it's much better. Running only 1 Lay on Hands. Im' back to trying my mid range paladin version of anyfin. For some reason it's doing better than the version with Doomsayers and such.
I may run 2x Belcher and 1x Healbot instead of the other way around, but i'll give this list a go before I decide. I can see the Doomsayers as being a good run in this deck. I've never considered it because anytime I've ever had a mirror match, my mid range anyfin has always beaten this heal/doom sayer anyfin.
When it comes anyfin vs anyfin decks. Doesn't it come down to who plays it first? Any combination of 7 murlocs is 30+ damage unless opponent has a taunt, and even then it's very likely to be lethal. Let's say I don't have Coghammer, Truesilver Championequiped then 2 Bluegill Warriors, 3 Murloc Warleader and 2 Old Murk-Eye are 28 damage.
Not necessarily who plays it first, but who plays it with lethal. There are a lot of situations where you'll hit turn 10 with Anyfin in your hand and only have seen 1 or 2 murlocs die. It happens more often then you'd think.
I wasn't asking how likely it is, but what is the general game plan for the game? About playing or not playing murlocs.
How do you avoid giving lethal to opponent's Anyfin? How you make sure only 1 or 2 murlocs have died by turn 9? Don't play any murlocs yourself?
Let's say you played one Bluegill and one Warleader by turn 6 and opponent hasn't played any. All it takes for opponent is to play both Warleaders and both Bluegills and Old Murk-Eye to have 7 murlocs from Anyfin? Which is not very likely, but you can't do nothing to prevent it and more murlocs you have played the more likely it is.
I have played about two dozen games with 2x Solem Vigil and it's much better. Running only 1 Lay on Hands. Im' back to trying my mid range paladin version of anyfin. For some reason it's doing better than the version with Doomsayers and such.
I have seen decks that have Azure Drakes instead of Solem Vigil to ensure some minion body presence on board. Have you tried?
I have played about two dozen games with 2x Solem Vigil and it's much better. Running only 1 Lay on Hands. Im' back to trying my mid range paladin version of anyfin. For some reason it's doing better than the version with Doomsayers and such.
I have seen decks that have Azure Drakes instead of Solem Vigil to ensure some minion body presence on board. Have you tried?
Interesting, no I have not. I'm not sure that's ideal though, but it's probably more efficient. I have been debating this tonight to myself, same concept really. What would you rather have, guaranteed draw 1 cards, or a gamble draw that could be draw a lot of cards or draw nothing? Because Cult Master is a gamble. You'll draw zero with a crappy 4 mana 4/2, or you'll draw lots of cards. And you typically lose games when you don't draw cards, and win games when you do draw lots of cards... So you DO want those up swing games when you draw 2-5 cards from a cult master because they help you win. But it does make for streaky play. I'll win like 3 games in a row then lose 3 games in a row...
I may run 2x Belcher and 1x Healbot instead of the other way around, but i'll give this list a go before I decide. I can see the Doomsayers as being a good run in this deck. I've never considered it because anytime I've ever had a mirror match, my mid range anyfin has always beaten this heal/doom sayer anyfin.
When it comes anyfin vs anyfin decks. Doesn't it come down to who plays it first? Any combination of 7 murlocs is 30+ damage unless opponent has a taunt, and even then it's very likely to be lethal. Let's say I don't have Coghammer, Truesilver Championequiped then 2 Bluegill Warriors, 3 Murloc Warleader and 2 Old Murk-Eye are 28 damage.
Not necessarily who plays it first, but who plays it with lethal. There are a lot of situations where you'll hit turn 10 with Anyfin in your hand and only have seen 1 or 2 murlocs die. It happens more often then you'd think.
I wasn't asking how likely it is, but what is the general game plan for the game? About playing or not playing murlocs.
How do you avoid giving lethal to opponent's Anyfin? How you make sure only 1 or 2 murlocs have died by turn 9? Don't play any murlocs yourself?
Let's say you played one Bluegill and one Warleader by turn 6 and opponent hasn't played any. All it takes for opponent is to play both Warleaders and both Bluegills and Old Murk-Eye to have 7 murlocs from Anyfin? Which is not very likely, but you can't do nothing to prevent it and more murlocs you have played the more likely it is.
Honestly, I don't think you can really play out everything. An Anyfin mirror is one of those games where there are so many variables that you can't have one single strategy. You have to just focus on counting dead murlocs and make sure you know who has OTK and when based on life totals. And if you get yourself in one of those situations you brought up (remember, that's 1 situation of dozens of possible situations) you have to just make the judgement call based on the following information: 1.) How many cards does he have in his hand. 2.) Did he just draw lots of cards, or have some of the cards been sitting in his hand since the mulligan? 3.) What is he likely to top deck. You can easily do math on his odds of topdecking a charge murloc that will get boosted from your murlocs. You can also make guesstimations on what he's holding. Say he hasn't played 2 cards in his hand the entire game and it's turn 7. You can probably safely assume they are cards like Lay on Hands or Anyfin Can Happen. Unless he's running a Dr Boom or a Cult Master/Solemn Vigil and didn't get an opportunity to play it and draw cards from it.
I've updated the deck. So far I think it's better but I've only played about 10 games with this new version. I've made it even more like Mid Range Paladin. I've cut Blessing Of Wisdom, 1x Belcher, 1x Solemn Vigil, 1x Equality and added 1x Knife Juggler, 1x Shredder, Dr Boom, 1x Healbot. Those cards are just pure value cards and it's helping me make value plays to control the board.
I just played a mirror match. I was using my Mid Range Anyfin and my opponent was using the reactive heal + removal focused version of Anyfin. So he had cards like Doomsayer and Hammer of Wrath. I absolutely demolished him. I took board control very early in the game and held it through all of his removal. He played both Consecrates Equalities and attempted a Doomsayer. But my board control based deck was too much for him. From turn 1 to turn 9 I was dinking his health down. I kept track that an Anyfin would deal a max of 18 Damage based on the murlocs that died and I was safe with a health of 20 and a taunt on the board. He played Anyfin first on turn 10, then I railed him the following turn for the win. And it was all because I had board control the entire game instead of playing reactively
Wow I just beat a Druid in 5 turns with the amazing Mid Range Paladin style curve. Turn 1 Coin Juggler, Turn 2 Minibot, Turn 3 Muster for Battle, Turn 4 Double BlueGill (Had to clear a taunt). Turn 5 Lethal with the help of a Truesilver. Sick.
You can also make guesstimations on what he's holding. Say he hasn't played 2 cards in his hand the entire game and it's turn 7. You can probably safely assume they are cards like Lay on Hands or Anyfin Can Happen. Unless he's running a Dr Boom or a Cult Master/Solemn Vigil and didn't get an opportunity to play it and draw cards from it.
I don't understand how can I assume that cards he hasn't played by turn 7 are Lay on Hands or Anyfin Can Happen, Dr Boom or a Cult Master/Solemn Vigil?
He could have had 2 equalities in hand, or Old Murk-Eye and didn't want risking giving opponent lethal since one Old Murk-Eye has died already. Some Anyfin decks have Tirion.
I agree that I could assume he has Anyfin in hand.
I think more logical assumtion is that if opponent has played all his hand and has very few cards, then it's very likely he doesn't have Anyfin.
@needmoredesu: I was trying to avoid double healbot and going with mid range cards like 2x Belcher and 1x Coghammer and going for board control early with Shielded Minibot and Muster for Battle. I left out healbot on purpose trying to play it as if it's Mid Range Paladin.
I'll try out 2x Solemn Vigil for sure.
Thoughts on Hammer of Wrath? How has it played for you? I see it as basically a darkbomb + life tap rolled into one card, which is okay.
Hammer of Wrath is just another tool in reactive control style of play. It kills weak threats and combos with Keeper of Uldaman. Being a cantrip is good too, ensuring we don't run out of steam faster than we need.
2x Vigil's are good if you play control and AoE or trade stuff. If you don't - then it's not that good.
I dunno why you like midrange stuff better. Just think about this: midrange is here to beat control (big number of best threats on their respective turns). Aggro/tempo is here to beat midrange by being faster. Control is here to beat aggro/tempo by out-valuing. And combo OTK's is here to beat control decks by just one turn swing he can't avoid.
So, murloc OTK is essentially good against control by it's very nature. You don't need to improve this matchup any further. You can try to go more tempo'ish approach, but with that you may suffer from losing value too fast.
I've tested your version and no offense but so far i think the control version is way way better. The outcome is just too weak. You can't really put pressure with those murlocs in hand. Every other deck just seem to be able to overtake the board quite easily while you lack of response to his creatures.
I'm having the exact opposite experience. I've been owning board most games and winning over 50% of my games. (Not recording stats so not sure on the exact number but my rank is climbing and I've played over 20 games now). How many games did you play? You need a large sample size to games to really test a deck.
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So this season I've been trying to make legend playing a non-typical deck. I've failed with a couple other decks and I'm currently playing an Anyfin Paladin OTK deck and i've been fluttering between Rank 5 and Rank 3.
First of all, I saw the streamer "Dog" play an Anyfin deck to legendary a season ago. I believe for a while he was using a Reno Anyfin deck, but then once he hit legend I saw him using a non Reno 2x Anyfin deck. Not sure what he actually took from rank 2 to legend though. Regardless the meta has changed since last season since the LoE expansion has fully been revealed. So let's focus on right now and not even last season.
My general game plan with Anyfin: Take a well known and consistent Mid Range Paladin deck that's solid, and make slight altercations to be an Anyfin OTK deck.
So basically, take this deck..
-Remove 2x knife juggler, add in 2x Bluegill.
-Remove Blessing of Kings and 1x Truesilver, add in 2x Warleader
-Remove Justicar, Tirion, Dr Boom, and add in Old Murc-eye, 2x Anyfin
-Remove cards like Owl, Quartermaster, Loatheb, and start adding in cards that Draw.
You'll end up with something like this my deck below..
When I win games, i'm typically facing control oriented decks. I'm actually smashing them to oblivion. When I see a Priest I even open emote "Sorry" because it's basically the Freeze mage vs Control Warrior matchup. They have no chance. But when I lose games, it's typically to face oriented aggro decks like Face Hunter or Aggro Shaman.
Here's what i've noticed:
When I win:
-I win the early game and take board control
-My draws hit and i cycle cards during the mid-late game
-Or Im simply playing against priest or control warrior (opponents who don’t stand much of a chance at beating Anyfin)
When I lose:
-I get stuck with 2x Lay on Hands or 2x Anyfin in my hand very early in the game and can’t do jack
-I can’t draw any cards and run out of gas.
-I play against face hunter (can’t seem to beat them, period)
Anyway, i'm fluttering around a 50% win rate and I'd like some input from you guys. I'm trying to improve this deck and push it to legend before this season is over. Any suggestions? I personally am hating the 2x Lay on Hands right now. I've gotten stuck with both of them in my hand very early in the game very many times against aggro. I'm not sure if it's bad luck or if that's my sign to simply cut one of them for another lower mana card because we're in an aggro meta. Thoughts on that? This deck really needs draw power to make the combo, and I feel like the 1x Blessing of Wisdom has done VERY well for me. But I'm not so sure I'd go as far as making it a 2x. And I'm not so sure cutting the 2nd Lay on Hands for a Healbot makes any sense. I'm thinking either cut it for either Loatheb, or Shredder, or possibly another draw card like a 2nd Blessing of Wisdom or even a 2nd Solemn Vigil.
-----------------UPDATE-----------------
I made legend! Anyfin is my favorite deck
I think the strongest Anyfin deck currently in existence is the control one that focuses solely on the double Anyfin combo as finisher and does not attempt to be a midrange deck as well. Neviilz's list is probably the standard such deck list at the moment:
As far as I know, attempts to make a midrange-combo version have so far failed, because in order to run your combo, you sacrifice too much of the midrange goodies and have a hard time competing for the board against both aggro and midrange decks, thus not living long enough to actually play your combo. I don't happen to have a silver bullet in my pocket for how to fix this, but perhaps you might also consider other Anyfin approaches beside midrange.
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/OldGuardian
Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/old_guardian
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Old_GuardianHS
Blog: http://www.kilkku.com/oldguardian/
I was wondering what is the game plan when two Murloc Paladins play vs each other? Keep Coin so you first can play Anyfin can happen, Not play any murlocs unless you have The Coin?
I double control approach.
You lack double healbot in your deck, pyros to combo with Equality, 1x Refreshment Vendor is good to have too. Put that, and your matchup vs Aggro will be much better.
I also don't like double Lay on Hands. But why you no double solemn vigil?
Just posting my deck in case you want some ideas, I'm not a legend player, tho it works fine for me.
@Old_Guardian: I see what you're saying. That's the trouble I'm running into, i'm cutting out some key mid range paladin cards and failing at what mid range paladin does best vs many aggro/tempo decks. I'll give this deck a shot, it's more of an all in with drawing and healing.
I may run 2x Belcher and 1x Healbot instead of the other way around, but i'll give this list a go before I decide. I can see the Doomsayers as being a good run in this deck. I've never considered it because anytime I've ever had a mirror match, my mid range anyfin has always beaten this heal/doom sayer anyfin. Could be luck or could just be a good matchup, not sure. But regardless, that's not a reason to not consider something (just because it's bad at one matchup)
@needmoredesu: I was trying to avoid double healbot and going with mid range cards like 2x Belcher and 1x Coghammer and going for board control early with Shielded Minibot and Muster for Battle. I left out healbot on purpose trying to play it as if it's Mid Range Paladin.
I'll try out 2x Solemn Vigil for sure.
Thoughts on Hammer of Wrath? How has it played for you? I see it as basically a darkbomb + life tap rolled into one card, which is okay.
I have played about two dozen games with 2x Solem Vigil and it's much better. Running only 1 Lay on Hands. Im' back to trying my mid range paladin version of anyfin. For some reason it's doing better than the version with Doomsayers and such.
I've updated the deck. So far I think it's better but I've only played about 10 games with this new version. I've made it even more like Mid Range Paladin. I've cut Blessing Of Wisdom, 1x Belcher, 1x Solemn Vigil, 1x Equality and added 1x Knife Juggler, 1x Shredder, Dr Boom, 1x Healbot. Those cards are just pure value cards and it's helping me make value plays to control the board.
Again, here's the decklist:
I just played a mirror match. I was using my Mid Range Anyfin and my opponent was using the reactive heal + removal focused version of Anyfin. So he had cards like Doomsayer and Hammer of Wrath. I absolutely demolished him. I took board control very early in the game and held it through all of his removal. He played both Consecrates Equalities and attempted a Doomsayer. But my board control based deck was too much for him. From turn 1 to turn 9 I was dinking his health down. I kept track that an Anyfin would deal a max of 18 Damage based on the murlocs that died and I was safe with a health of 20 and a taunt on the board. He played Anyfin first on turn 10, then I railed him the following turn for the win. And it was all because I had board control the entire game instead of playing reactively
Wow I just beat a Druid in 5 turns with the amazing Mid Range Paladin style curve. Turn 1 Coin Juggler, Turn 2 Minibot, Turn 3 Muster for Battle, Turn 4 Double BlueGill (Had to clear a taunt). Turn 5 Lethal with the help of a Truesilver. Sick.
To put all my previous questions in a simpler way:
What card do you keep vs paladin?
If your starting hand has 2 Bluegill Warriors, keep one, both, or none?
What if you have 2 cards you don't ever want to keep and a Warleader? do you keep it?
Do you keep Old Murk-Eye with The Coin? or it depends on other cards?