Well met! Now as many of you already know, we are in a time of great peril as Paladin players. We are considered the weakest class by most people and even some big name Hearthstone websites have placed us at the bottom multiple times now (the most recent of which on 04/16/2014: http://ihearthu.com/the-meta-report-13/). So I'm making this thread as a means of support for all the new struggling Paladins and maybe even the old ones that want to try some new decks out. I guess my main priority with this post is going to be to equip all Paladin players with the ability to run their Paladin Control decks confidently on the Ranked ladder. With that in mind, I'm going to try and keep this updated as much as possible, and something like a go-to source for all our Paladin needs. Any recommendations, comments, or whatever you guys think is more than welcome in a reply to the thread and I'll do as best I can to work it in when I can.
I've just recently started writing guides for this game as well as streaming my very feeble climb to Legend (come chill with us if you can!: www.twitch.tv/leajawijac9). I've met all kinds of really cool people along the way, but you'd be surprised at the amount of questions I get on, "do you know of any other Paladin decks I can try out?" I also get a surprising amount of questions like, "these Paladin decks are not working for me, what do you recommend?" Well, I'm just going to tell everyone right now as straight forward as possible the same thing I have been telling myself. Which is, if you are not winning consistently Paladin, you may need to step up your game. Like I was saying, I have to step my game up just as much as anyone else, so don't think I'm just pointing the finger at everyone but myself. No matter what way you look at the issue of Paladin being too "weak" right now, the fact of the matter is, there are people who are making it to Legend as Paladin. Understand right up front, that there are going to be games you lose to straight up bad draws, bad matchups, or just extremely bad luck. Do not complain about/blame the Class for this. I really can't stress that enough. Just as with any card game, there are some pulls that are unstoppable. However, as long as we are playing smart and have a strong and consistent deck, overall we will have strong and consistent results.
***One last thing that I want to mention as early as possible, is that this is mainly going to be a focus on Control Paladin. I will list a few variations towards the bottom of the write-up on some very solid Midrange and Blitz decks, but that's about it. I have played most iterations of Midrange and Rush/Blitz decks as Paladin and they are strong, but they will not be a focus of mine in this particular write-up. Sorry to all the people running those decks, but most Rush and Midrange players only want the list to begin with and that's just about all they really need.***
So lets hop right into what we have going for us as Paladin. I think one of the main ways of knowing how to play a deck or even making a deck is understanding what you can and can't do as your class. So what can we do? What are our strengths? Better yet, what can we not do? What are our weaknesses? Below is just a basic list of of Pro's and Con's for Paladin (If there are any other big general ones that I've missed, tell me and I'll try and add it asap):
Pro's
-Versatile Stat Manipulation -Powerful Sweepers -Great Healing Power
We have some really interesting ways to play around with Minion stats as a Paladin. While we do have a lot of options to buff our own Minions, the main thing you will see most Paladin decks do is shrink the opponents Minions (only rush decks really prioritize buff cards). We also have full board sweepers going for us. I think it is because of this feature alone that we should actually focus primarily on Control as Paladin. Don't get me wrong, I know we have solid Midrange and Rush decks, but it makes my heart sad to see a sweeper like Wild Pyromancer + Equality or Equality + Consecration go to waste. Last but not least of the Pro's listed, we have very strong heals. Some people say we have better Heals than the Priest class does. I would argue that we don't, but it really is just a matter of opinion. Regardless, the Healing power and Utility that we get from cards like Lay on Hands, Guardian of Kings, Truesilver Champion, and Holy Light let us sustain for long enough to get to our big cards late game. I would consider this another strong reason to focus on Control as our primary deck archetype.
Con's
-No big Damage "OTK" potential (ie Savage Roar + Force of Nature, etc..) -No early Removal/Single Target Removal -No steady Card Draw engine/mechanic
All these weaknesses are what people have to be really conscience of when making a deck. The number one Con I listed, is that we don't have a real quick 10+ points of damage available to us in any of our Control decks, so always focus on board control over "face damage." Next I mention our lack of single target removal, that is where cards like Big Game Hunter and The Black Knight come in real handy. While were on the subject, I'll go ahead and mention this little tidbit real quick; From the experience I've gathered, I have found a single Silence and Weapon destruction to be irreplaceable, so definitely include one of each in your deck if you can squeeze them in. Lastly we are somewhat lacking in the card draw department for wanting to be a Control deck. We don't have a Life Tap, Northshire Cleric, Mana Tide Totem, or anything else like that to keep our draws going. Before, we were able to rely slightly on Nat Pagle every now and then, but now we really only have the mid game cycle from Hammer of Wrath and the late game Lay on Hands. I recommend throwing an Acolyte of Pain in your deck sometime and combo him with an Aldor Peacekeeper if possible. I have gotten some real value out of that synergy (Sometimes he just eats up a removal spell, which isn't half bad either).
Decklists
Alright, so I've been compiling a list of some of the best performing Paladin Control decks that I could find on Twitch TV. These are all essentially what the top level Paladin players used or are using to get to Legend now. A list like this serves several purposes, some of the more important purposes being:
It gives you guys some hope that people are in fact making it to Legend as Paladin. (ITS POSSIBLE?!)
There are a few options out there on how to make it to Legend as Paladin.
We can see what all the Paladin decks have in common and establish the Core cards for our own decks.
You don't have to go looking around the Internet and Twitch trying to find all these decks.
First up we have Koyuki, he's a NA player that runs a very straight forward Paladin Control Deck. A lot of people are probably already familiar with Koyuki because of his stream. Koyuki also use to run a Paladin Giant Control deck that was very similar to the Handlock build that people are still using today. Nat Pagle and Tinkmaster Overspark were pretty detrimental to that decks stability/card draw, so with their nerf (and a few other things like meta shifts, etc..), you don't really see Koyuki run it that much anymore. Koyuki seems to really favor the "steal your guy" style of play, incorporating Sylvanas Windrunner and Mind Control Tech into the main build. These obviously can cause huge momentum swings and are good enough value cards for their cost even when silenced or not used for their effect. A few other cards that I have seen Koyuki swap in and out of this deck are Divine Favor and Sunwalker.
Next we have Abver the Russian (EU) player that I came across on twitch just very recently. He has a really unique take on Paladin Control. Abver's deck seems to be the new spin on the old "Giant's" version of Control for Paladin. The Mountain Giant's, Nat Pagle and Tinkmaster Overspark are gone, but all that did was make room for more big drops and meta options such as; Ragnaros the Firelord, Faceless Manipulator, Blood Knight, and Big Game Hunter. One of my favorite things about this deck are the Twilight Drake's. Those Drake's are great right now against just about everything but Earth Shock. I have seen Abver mess around with Abomination in the deck as well.
You may not understand him if you can't speak Russian, but check out his stream sometime for some very high quality Paladin play: http://www.twitch.tv/roxkisabver
Lastly, I have Kolento list. He's another EU player that I watch stream Paladin pretty much whenever he is playing it. He hasn't updated his list in a while now on his Twitch account (at least not that I saw), but it's still a very intriguing deck. Kolento has a really nice synergy in his deck with the Youthful Brewmaster. Considering all the cards with strong Battlecry's in our deck like Aldor Peacekeeper, Guardian of Kings, and Stampeding Kodo you can get a lot of value out of the Brewmaster. I haven't seen Kolento play Paladin in a while now unfortunately, so I don't know if there have been any recent changes to this deck.
Be sure to stop by Kolento's Twitch channel every now and then, he speaks pretty good English as well: http://www.twitch.tv/kolento
Established Staples
Listed below are what seem to be absolute staples in any Paladin Control deck.
Given the fact that these 18-20 cards are seen in most, if not all, high level Paladin Control decks, its safe to say that we only have about 10-12 cards that we can actually customize in our own deck (before you start hurting the decks integrity). I always recommend players be creative and try their own things in decks, and knowing the core of the deck allows you to be pretty spontaneous and unique. So, realistically, just under 2/3rd's of the deck seems to be self made for us Paladin Control players, from here we just need to throw in all our meta and preference cards to deal with whatever else we struggle with in the format. Are you having poor results against Priest? Well add some Chillwind Yeti's or Twilight Drake's. Is Zoolock beating you down? Add in some Sen'jin Shieldmasta's and Earthen Ring Farseer's.
Preference Cards, Meta Cards, and Close Similarities
Listed Below are some things that you can mess around with, these aren't the only options available, just some quick idea's:
Sunfury Protector - Solid 2-drop and can give out Taunt, this is in a lot of Paladin Control decks. Acolyte of Pain - I love this card, I think it is the extra card draw that we need as Paladin. Blood Knight - Great for eating up the Divine Shield's on those Argent Squire's and Scarlet Crusader's. Earthen Ring Farseer - Solid 3-drop that heals something for 3, so good utility. Harvest Golem - Another Solid 3-drop, basically a 4/4 for 3. Mind Control Tech - So many solid 3-drops, this one can really turn the momentum around. Chillwind Yeti - Solid 4-drop, pretty hard for most classes to deal with by only using 1 card. Leeroy Jenkins - Because why not? : ] Sen'jin Shieldmasta - Great at slowing down Rush decks Twilight Drake - Super Yeti. Stampeding Kodo - This Minion is already in most Paladin decks actually. Azure Drake - Incredible value and strong curve with Avenging Wrath the next turn.
As I mentioned above, there are plenty of other cards to throw in and mess around with, so please, try something new and crazy and tell us all if it works.
Class Versus Class Match Breakdown
I'm just going to do a real basic matchup breakdown, because there really is nothing better than actual experience, and things change up pretty often in the meta. In all honesty, the match breakdown is better to talk about as a reply below, that way its not just me answering, but instead, anyone who reads it can. And that's good for a multitude of reasons, some people might be more equipped to answer a certain question than I am. So please guys, if you have any questions on something more specific than the broad explanations I'm leaving below, don't be afraid to ask (and don't be afraid to answer if you know someone's question).
Warlock - You never really know what you are going to get when you go against a Warlock these days. A large majority of the time it will be Zoo, every now and then you will run into a Handlock on the ladder, and lastly you may still run into a Murlock once in a blue moon. Safest bet for you is to mulligan everything unless its a Consecration, Equality, or Wild Pyromancer.
Hunter - Truesilver Champion does work in all matchups, but versus Hunter in particular it's pretty huge. Two big cards you want to aggressively mulligan for are Truesilver and some Weapon destruction. Never ever put more than 2 bodies on the board unless you know both Unleash the Hounds have been used.
Warrior - This can be a very tricky matchup, you need to make sure you save a Big Game Hunter or Aldor Peacekeeper in hand at all times to deal with the first 7+ Attack creature you come across. Truesilver should be reserved for taking out Frothing Berserker's, Armorsmith's, and Acolyte's. One last thing, always be weary of Brawl.
Druid - This can be a pretty tough matchup, especially if they get the silence off on Ancient Watcher early enough or super Innervate combo's. Late game always be expecting the Savage Roar + Force of Nature combo which is exactly 14 damage on turn 9 even on an empty board. Always play around that and try and get an Aldor Peacekeeper or Equality in your starting hand to start the game.
Rogue - Probably one of the most annoying classes to play against in the game (imo). I feel like this matchup is just as much of a coinflip as Zoo is sometimes, but here is the worst part, the games with Rogue take twice as long. Some games they get that 28 damage burst on turn 8 or whatever it is, and sometimes they don't. There are a few different Rogue decks lingering around nowadays, just try to make sure you save your Equality combo's for when Conceal is used.
Shaman - Save Truesilver charges for taking out 0/3 special purpose totems and Unbound Elemental's if at all possible. Save Peacekeeper's for Fire Elemental's. Consecration and Hammer of Wrath can be very strong cards in this matchup for clearing or sniping totems. Always take Lightning Storm into consideration before overextending.
Mage - There are a few things that Mage can do that is frustrating, but the biggest card you need to try and play around is the Water Elemental. It is hard to say really how to play versus Mage right now, I just don't feel like they have a deck set in stone. The best advice I can give here is to always take your life total into consideration in conjunction with Pyroblast and to always play around Flamestrike and Blizzard to the best of your ability.
Priest - It is very rare that I see a Priest these days, but just always play reserving your best cards for when you can counter them with the cards in your own hand. In other words, you might as well not even play Tirion unless you have The Black Knight and Acidic Swamp Ooze in hand for the next turn after they Faceless or Mind Control it.
Midrange is probably my favorite style of deck to play. When I use to play Magic: the Gathering, the first home-brew deck that I would make for every new set was always Rock. Black, White, and Green were my absolute favorite colors (and sometimes Blue), so I'm sure MTG players out there know exactly where I'm coming from. But in Hearthstone, I tend to lean more towards Control decks. This may just have to do with the cards that are out right now, but who knows, only time will tell. As far Midrange Paladin decks go, they are very rare, I could only find one that really stuck out to me. In fact, it was the only one that I could find a streamer using in Legend.
This is m1ssf0xyiio7's Paladin Midrange deck. M1ssf0xyiio7 is a EU player that took a slightly different approach to the deck than most other top level Paladin's I have seen. In fact, this deck is very nearly a 50/50 mix between Midrange and Control. He runs Sword of Justice, double Azure Drake, double Stampeding Kodo, and double Avenging Wrath which is very aggressive and fits quite well in a Midrange deck. Then you also see him running the full suite of Taunt-givers, board sweepers, and 8-drop finishers. One of my favorite things about this deck is actually how simple it looks on paper. I mean you look at the list its just 2 of everything and then just 4 cards that are 1-ord. Great job with this deck, simple but effective.
Midrange Variations and Similarities to Control Decks
Midrange Paladin decks can be very similar to Control Paladin decks. Now I know some people reading this are probably face-palming to that previous sentence. And that's fine, but the truth is, approximately 14 of the cards that I listed as the "core/staples" in all the control decks, are in this deck minus these 4:
Holy Light - Because of the aggressive nature of Midrange, there's no time for single function heals. Big Game Hunter - Anything it can't deal with on board, it finally drops its board sweeper on. Hammer of Wrath - Basically runs an additional Avenging Wrath instead of 1 Hammer and 1 Avenging. Guardian of Kings - Anything above 8 mana has to be something that keeps you in the driver seat.
On top of that, the Midrange deck that I posted also shares a few cards with some of the control decks outside of the "staples":
Sunfury Protector - Koyuki's deck doesn't run these right now, but I believe he normally does. Earthen Ring Farseer - Abver doesn't run these in his deck so that he can get to the Molten Giant's faster. Stampeding Kodo - Abver is one of the only Paladin decks that doesn't run the Kodo. Ragnaros the Firelord - Kolento and Koyuki aren't running this right now, too much RNG for some Control decks at that point of the game.
I'm sure there are a few other solid Midrange variations out there, but I really haven't seen any as of late. I know Reynad made a Midrange and Control deck and I looked them up, but they were just about as outdated as Kolento's deck I posted above, but I've never seen him play either of them (or at least not that I can remember). I did also manage to message Gabe Walls (TheGwalls) on his Twitch while he was playing yesterday (04/16/2014) because I noticed a Paladin deck in his roster. I asked him what kind it was, and he replied "its just beatdown." Now that could mean a few things all depending on your terminology/definitions, but I think it means something in-between Rush and Midrange. With the way the current meta is going, Midrange may be a slightly more favorable deck for us right now, especially considering it has a little more dominance in the early game. That could be pretty amazing against Rush decks. Something to consider at least.
Paladin Blitz as an Alternative Deck
Paladin Blitz/Rush/etc.. decks are very doable right now and can easily have 50/50 results against any matchup (ultimately giving you the opportunity to outplay your opponent most the time). Just like with any other Rush or Zoo deck, there are going to be those games where you get the most amazing pulls, that are going to be literally unbeatable. However, the games you don't get that pull, you may be at a greater disadvantage than most other classes in the same predicament. Warlock can Life Tap for more cards and Hunter can Steady Shot for more damage. Whereas, if we don't see that properly timed Divine Favor, we can run out of gas very quickly. Sometimes even with a Divine Favor, it just sits in our hand dead against other Rush matchups, which is probably our biggest weakness as Paladin Blitz. When one of our most important/powerful cards is dead against opposing Blitz decks.. that is a real problem.
Holyrock has piloted this deck to Legends, so you know that Paladin can be very successful on the offense. I'm pretty sure I alluded to it earlier in this thread, but I'll go ahead and stress it again here; Control decks focus on shrinking the opponents minions and Blitz decks focus on buffing theirs, and that is exactly what we see in this deck list. Abusive Sergeant, Blessing of Might, Blessing of Kings, and even Argent Protector are all at home in this deck. Get some guys on the board early, support them the best that you can, and then squeeze by that extra damage needed to win the game. Not surprisingly there are 2 Leper Gnome's, 2 Avenging Wrath's, and tons of Charge creatures in here for maximum damage output. One thing that is really nice about this deck and worth noting is the synergy between King Mukla and Divine Favor. Playing both in one turn will probably net you a minimum of 4 cards.
This deck has a slightly different approach to buffing it's Minions than the "Mini Pally" does. It looks like MaatiSan is counting on Sword of Justice to buff his guys over Blessing of Might. I think personally I like the SoJ's over the BoM's because of the extra Utility in being able to take out something with 1 Toughness. However, I do still see the Utility in getting that quick extra 3 Attack from BoM to either punch through that last bit of Damage or finish off a Taunt Minion. It also looks like both decks are running the Sergeants and Protectors for the quick buffs and early momentum plays. Interestingly, MaatiSan's deck is running only 1 Divine Favor and 1 Lay on Hands.
*On a side note, it seems that no matter what Paladin deck that we find these days, it is going to be running dubs Equality. Even these Rush decks are running it as a 2-of.*
So there you have it, pretty straight forward. Both Aggro decks that I posted were pretty similar but at the same time very unique. It looked as though the only real difference was the "Mini Pally" deck was more focused on barging through and getting that damage out as fast as possible. Whereas, the "Winadin" deck, was more about completely owning the board with cards like Knife Juggler, Noble Sacrifice, and Scarlet Crusader. All in all, you want to fill up the board, only trade if its favorable, and send everything else to the dome. While I don't necessarily prefer these kinds of decks, every now and then it does feel good to play them. It can be a really nice way to blow off some steam.
Priority Crafting List
I'm just going to add this little piece to the thread so that people know what to craft first and what to use in place of cards that they don't have yet.
Tirion Fordring - This guy is in every deck I listed above except the Aggro deck, so ya, he's top priority.
Cairne Bloodhoof - Technically, this should be your priority craft in general if you aren't going only Paladin.
Ragnaros the Firelord - Some people say craft this first over Cairne, but not all Paladin decks use him.
Lay on Hands - Almost as hard to replace as Tirion for Paladin. Almost.
The Black Knight - Similar story to Cairne, just a great universal 6-drop.
Big Game Hunter - Great card that goes in a large majority of decks and almost all Paladin decks as a 1-of.
Avenging Wrath - Very powerful card and is at least a 1-of in almost all Paladin decks.
Faceless Manipulator - Very universal application, but not in most Paladin decks right now.
Sylvanas Windrunner - Same idea as Faceless, but more expensive in every way.
Anything after that is really just a matter of preference.
I really hope this Thread helps people out or that they at least just enjoyed reading it. I have a real passion for games, figuring them out, playing them, talking to people about them, writing guides for them, and competing in them. If you have any questions or comments please post it on here. I would really like for this Thread to become the home of all things Ranked/Competitive Paladin (at least on Hearthpwn).
Oh, and don't forget to always PUT YOUR FAITH IN THE LIGHT!
Your "number one con" is actually nonexistant. Paladin does have big finisher potential. Leeroy Jenkins + Blessing of Might + Faceless Manipulator OR Blessed Champion = 18 dmg, which is more than your typical force of nature + savage roar combo.
Your "number one con" is actually nonexistant. Paladin does have big finisher potential. Leeroy Jenkins + Blessing of Might + Faceless Manipulator OR Blessed Champion = 18 dmg, which is more than your typical force of nature + savage roar combo.
Your "number one con" is actually nonexistant. Paladin does have big finisher potential. Leeroy Jenkins + Blessing of Might + Faceless Manipulator OR Blessed Champion = 18 dmg, which is more than your typical force of nature + savage roar combo.
You can't compare 3-card combo to 2-card combo
Tell me then, what classes have high damage 2-card combos? Even still you don't need the blessing of might per say, leeroy jenkins + faceless manipulator (which can be done with every class) is still a ton of damage. 14 damage from force of nature + savage roar isn't much better than 12 damage from leeroy + faceless, and the leeroy combo has more potential to use additional cards for even more damage.
Idk, 3-card combos require lots of card-draws.. or luck to pull off. He also says the con is for control decks so blessing of might you'll probably not include just for a finishing combo.
For classes other than Druid, Warriors have Grommash + Cruel Taskmaster, Shamans have Windfury + Rockbiter, Rogues, Warlocks and Hunters have low-mana cost 3 or even 4 card combos thanks to their great card draws(Miracle Rogue, Starving Buzzard, Warlock Hero Power..)
Paladin (or priest and mage) just doesn't excel in finishing as well as other classes and that's what he is saying. That's just my opinion though.
Windfury + Rockbiter is a 3 card combo, because you need something on the field or a charge card. 3-card combos are actually pretty easy in my opinion, anything beyond that gets pretty iffy. Miracle rogue combos aren't instant damage, you usually have a turn to deal with what they have before they combo you. Hunter combos typically lack damage... although there are some 4+ card combos that can hit hard. Blessing of might isn't a bad card to have in any deck, just don't run two unless it has a good purpose.
So pretty much the only other 2 card combo you mentioned is grommash + cruel taskmaster OR inner rage, which is the same dmg as leeroy + faceless.
There is no lack of ability for paladins to hit hard... His specifics words were talking about one turn instant damage which isn't the same as how well the class finishes the opponent. If you're having a hard time finishing as control paladin then run Alexstrasza to help you along.
Personally I don't believe that paladin is a weak class, but I also don't play at the higher levels. Does anyone remember when druid became popular out of nowhere? It was considered a pretty bad class and nothing changed but suddenly it became very popular and people considered it to be the best class for a while. Then they nerfed tinkmaster and now people think that druid is horrible. One card doesn't make or break the deck... The fact that tinkmaster could give your opponent a 5/5 made him risky and a removal for only the most powerful of minions. As the meta changes people change their minds on what they think about each class. Priest even became popular for a time, despite nothing changing. Honestly the community is ruled by people that watch streamers and believe that whatever class they play is overpowered because they keep winning with it.
As someone who's doing the climb as a paladin, I'd like to thank you for the time invested in this guide. While I've learned how to play against Warrior, Warlocks and Hunters due to the over-abundance of them, it's nice to see some tips for other classes which I'd be afraid I wouldn't know how to handle.
Your "number one con" is actually nonexistant. Paladin does have big finisher potential. Leeroy Jenkins + Blessing of Might + Faceless Manipulator OR Blessed Champion = 18 dmg, which is more than your typical force of nature + savage roar combo.
First of all, I tried to mention that we don't have the potential in our Control decks. What I will add later to clear everything up, is that there is also no need to have the potential in said decks. I say that because Paladin has Defensive abilities to make it through the game, not offensive ones. Where Warrior has Slam, Druid has Wrath, and Rogues have Backstab/Shiv, Paladin has Holy Light. With that in mind, what good would a 10+ dmg burst be with our opponent at 25+ health? Si: Agent 7, Frothing Berserker, and Unbound Elemental can be very aggressive, but Paladin has Aldor Peacekeeper. There is nothing wrong with Peacekeeper, he is just going a different direction if you see what I'm saying.
The quote below mentions that you think we should also run Alexstrasza. Try it out man, wait for that game you get Alex vs a Rush/zoo deck. I'm sure here you will probably reason in your mind something along the lines of, "well handlock can do it," and you are sure right, so can Warrior, but with Hero Powers and Removal like what they have, they can do just about whatever they want (Especially Warlock). I'm not going to bash you like I feel you did me, but I am going to point out that this is why I made this thread and the whole "Staple" section. You know all you need to know to make Paladin Control now and Ladder with it. There are 10-12 spots left for you to add whatever meta/combo's makes your heart happy. Just remember, we don't have a way to cycle through our cards like Warrior, Druid, Rogue, Hunter, and Warlock do. If you get the deck to work with combo's like Leeroy + Alex + Faceless, please come back to us on here and report it, we are looking to win man, we don't care what it takes or to admit we were wrong. JUSTICE DEMANDS RETRIBUTION!
Windfury + Rockbiter is a 3 card combo, because you need something on the field or a charge card. 3-card combos are actually pretty easy in my opinion, anything beyond that gets pretty iffy. Miracle rogue combos aren't instant damage, you usually have a turn to deal with what they have before they combo you. Hunter combos typically lack damage... although there are some 4+ card combos that can hit hard. Blessing of might isn't a bad card to have in any deck, just don't run two unless it has a good purpose.
So pretty much the only other 2 card combo you mentioned is grommash + cruel taskmaster OR inner rage, which is the same dmg as leeroy + faceless.
There is no lack of ability for paladins to hit hard... His specifics words were talking about one turn instant damage which isn't the same as how well the class finishes the opponent. If you're having a hard time finishing as control paladin then run Alexstrasza to help you along.
Personally I don't believe that paladin is a weak class, but I also don't play at the higher levels. Does anyone remember when druid became popular out of nowhere? It was considered a pretty bad class and nothing changed but suddenly it became very popular and people considered it to be the best class for a while. Then they nerfed tinkmaster and now people think that druid is horrible. One card doesn't make or break the deck... The fact that tinkmaster could give your opponent a 5/5 made him risky and a removal for only the most powerful of minions. As the meta changes people change their minds on what they think about each class. Priest even became popular for a time, despite nothing changing. Honestly the community is ruled by people that watch streamers and believe that whatever class they play is overpowered because they keep winning with it.
So real quick, let me get this straight, you don't even play Paladin at higher ranks. Okay, understood. Everything that you mentioned above makes sense now. I'm not going to make fun of you man, I'm really not, I literally just totally understand now where you are coming from. On paper, Alex + Leeroy + Faceless + BoM look good, they really do. Did you know that I have even tried that combo in Paladin? But, as I already stated in this reply, the real problem that Paladin is having is making it through the early stages of the game alive. What also happens when we add things like that, is we start hurting the integrity of the deck. When we add combo's like that to our deck, what early game potential are we going to lose against the majority of the environment (like Rush/Zoo)? Don't get me wrong, if we had the early game removal, cycle, and bodies as other Control decks, trust me man, we would be running it in our control decks too (and we'd have a reason to run the burst you are talking about at that point). But Paladin has to take a slightly different approach to it than other classes because of our skill/creature set.
I'm not trying to come across as offensive and I'm sure you aren't either, lets keep it friendly in here, I'll update the Thread after work tonight to stress the things that I stressed to you here, good eye man, thank you for pointing out something that is very confusing. I apologize for the misunderstanding.
I feel like he could be a good replacement for Rag since most of the time there are too many minions for Rag to do anything and having an additional consecrate is nice as well!
Any tips on this new kolento hunter deck? It's pretty crazy because your punished for playing too many minions and then your punished for not playing enough against value cards such as the Savannah Highmane.. Tough time to be a paladin...
Oh and great write up. I never took the time to analyse the class as a whole and as such I missed the fact that there are so many cards that are solely dependent on the current meta. I'm going to have to take a look at my decklist and see if I can change anything to do better against Hunters and Warlocks.
Any tips on this new kolento hunter deck? It's pretty crazy because your punished for playing too many minions and then your punished for not playing enough against value cards such as the Savannah Highmane.. Tough time to be a paladin...
None that I've found. Went from rank 3 (4 stars) to rank 7 and it's all hunters and I don't know to deal, I've thrown in silences but it doesn't do anything.
Don't mind using any card, even if its not for its normally intended effect (ie, Wild Pyromancer is just a vanilla 3/2 for 2 in this game played best on turn 2).
Just because you have Minions on the board doesn't mean you need to swing. If they have a trap down and your Minions are over 3 Attack, you may want to wait it out until you have better control later.
Those are the biggest tips that I can think of versus Hunter off the top of my head. Believe it or not, I think Paladin has a pretty favorable matchup against Hunter. Truesilver Champion should usually be swung at their face for a 6 point life swing (each swing, so that's 12 points over 2 swings). Hope this helps
Well met! Now as many of you already know, we are in a time of great peril as Paladin players. We are considered the weakest class by most people and even some big name Hearthstone websites have placed us at the bottom multiple times now (the most recent of which on 04/16/2014: http://ihearthu.com/the-meta-report-13/). So I'm making this thread as a means of support for all the new struggling Paladins and maybe even the old ones that want to try some new decks out. I guess my main priority with this post is going to be to equip all Paladin players with the ability to run their Paladin Control decks confidently on the Ranked ladder. With that in mind, I'm going to try and keep this updated as much as possible, and something like a go-to source for all our Paladin needs. Any recommendations, comments, or whatever you guys think is more than welcome in a reply to the thread and I'll do as best I can to work it in when I can.
I've just recently started writing guides for this game as well as streaming my very feeble climb to Legend (come chill with us if you can!: www.twitch.tv/leajawijac9). I've met all kinds of really cool people along the way, but you'd be surprised at the amount of questions I get on, "do you know of any other Paladin decks I can try out?" I also get a surprising amount of questions like, "these Paladin decks are not working for me, what do you recommend?" Well, I'm just going to tell everyone right now as straight forward as possible the same thing I have been telling myself. Which is, if you are not winning consistently Paladin, you may need to step up your game. Like I was saying, I have to step my game up just as much as anyone else, so don't think I'm just pointing the finger at everyone but myself. No matter what way you look at the issue of Paladin being too "weak" right now, the fact of the matter is, there are people who are making it to Legend as Paladin. Understand right up front, that there are going to be games you lose to straight up bad draws, bad matchups, or just extremely bad luck. Do not complain about/blame the Class for this. I really can't stress that enough. Just as with any card game, there are some pulls that are unstoppable. However, as long as we are playing smart and have a strong and consistent deck, overall we will have strong and consistent results.
***One last thing that I want to mention as early as possible, is that this is mainly going to be a focus on Control Paladin. I will list a few variations towards the bottom of the write-up on some very solid Midrange and Blitz decks, but that's about it. I have played most iterations of Midrange and Rush/Blitz decks as Paladin and they are strong, but they will not be a focus of mine in this particular write-up. Sorry to all the people running those decks, but most Rush and Midrange players only want the list to begin with and that's just about all they really need.***
So lets hop right into what we have going for us as Paladin. I think one of the main ways of knowing how to play a deck or even making a deck is understanding what you can and can't do as your class. So what can we do? What are our strengths? Better yet, what can we not do? What are our weaknesses? Below is just a basic list of of Pro's and Con's for Paladin (If there are any other big general ones that I've missed, tell me and I'll try and add it asap):
Pro's
-Versatile Stat Manipulation
-Powerful Sweepers
-Great Healing Power
We have some really interesting ways to play around with Minion stats as a Paladin. While we do have a lot of options to buff our own Minions, the main thing you will see most Paladin decks do is shrink the opponents Minions (only rush decks really prioritize buff cards). We also have full board sweepers going for us. I think it is because of this feature alone that we should actually focus primarily on Control as Paladin. Don't get me wrong, I know we have solid Midrange and Rush decks, but it makes my heart sad to see a sweeper like Wild Pyromancer + Equality or Equality + Consecration go to waste. Last but not least of the Pro's listed, we have very strong heals. Some people say we have better Heals than the Priest class does. I would argue that we don't, but it really is just a matter of opinion. Regardless, the Healing power and Utility that we get from cards like Lay on Hands, Guardian of Kings, Truesilver Champion, and Holy Light let us sustain for long enough to get to our big cards late game. I would consider this another strong reason to focus on Control as our primary deck archetype.
Con's
-No big Damage "OTK" potential (ie Savage Roar + Force of Nature, etc..)
-No early Removal/Single Target Removal
-No steady Card Draw engine/mechanic
All these weaknesses are what people have to be really conscience of when making a deck. The number one Con I listed, is that we don't have a real quick 10+ points of damage available to us in any of our Control decks, so always focus on board control over "face damage." Next I mention our lack of single target removal, that is where cards like Big Game Hunter and The Black Knight come in real handy. While were on the subject, I'll go ahead and mention this little tidbit real quick; From the experience I've gathered, I have found a single Silence and Weapon destruction to be irreplaceable, so definitely include one of each in your deck if you can squeeze them in. Lastly we are somewhat lacking in the card draw department for wanting to be a Control deck. We don't have a Life Tap, Northshire Cleric, Mana Tide Totem, or anything else like that to keep our draws going. Before, we were able to rely slightly on Nat Pagle every now and then, but now we really only have the mid game cycle from Hammer of Wrath and the late game Lay on Hands. I recommend throwing an Acolyte of Pain in your deck sometime and combo him with an Aldor Peacekeeper if possible. I have gotten some real value out of that synergy (Sometimes he just eats up a removal spell, which isn't half bad either).
Decklists
Alright, so I've been compiling a list of some of the best performing Paladin Control decks that I could find on Twitch TV. These are all essentially what the top level Paladin players used or are using to get to Legend now. A list like this serves several purposes, some of the more important purposes being:
Koyuki (Last Updated: 04/16/2014)
First up we have Koyuki, he's a NA player that runs a very straight forward Paladin Control Deck. A lot of people are probably already familiar with Koyuki because of his stream. Koyuki also use to run a Paladin Giant Control deck that was very similar to the Handlock build that people are still using today. Nat Pagle and Tinkmaster Overspark were pretty detrimental to that decks stability/card draw, so with their nerf (and a few other things like meta shifts, etc..), you don't really see Koyuki run it that much anymore. Koyuki seems to really favor the "steal your guy" style of play, incorporating Sylvanas Windrunner and Mind Control Tech into the main build. These obviously can cause huge momentum swings and are good enough value cards for their cost even when silenced or not used for their effect. A few other cards that I have seen Koyuki swap in and out of this deck are Divine Favor and Sunwalker.
Check Koyuki's stream out sometime for some quality content and advice on Paladin: http://www.twitch.tv/koyuki0
Abver (Last Updated: 04/15/2014)
Next we have Abver the Russian (EU) player that I came across on twitch just very recently. He has a really unique take on Paladin Control. Abver's deck seems to be the new spin on the old "Giant's" version of Control for Paladin. The Mountain Giant's, Nat Pagle and Tinkmaster Overspark are gone, but all that did was make room for more big drops and meta options such as; Ragnaros the Firelord, Faceless Manipulator, Blood Knight, and Big Game Hunter. One of my favorite things about this deck are the Twilight Drake's. Those Drake's are great right now against just about everything but Earth Shock. I have seen Abver mess around with Abomination in the deck as well.
You may not understand him if you can't speak Russian, but check out his stream sometime for some very high quality Paladin play: http://www.twitch.tv/roxkisabver
Kolento (Last Updated: 03/16/2014)
Lastly, I have Kolento list. He's another EU player that I watch stream Paladin pretty much whenever he is playing it. He hasn't updated his list in a while now on his Twitch account (at least not that I saw), but it's still a very intriguing deck. Kolento has a really nice synergy in his deck with the Youthful Brewmaster. Considering all the cards with strong Battlecry's in our deck like Aldor Peacekeeper, Guardian of Kings, and Stampeding Kodo you can get a lot of value out of the Brewmaster. I haven't seen Kolento play Paladin in a while now unfortunately, so I don't know if there have been any recent changes to this deck.
Be sure to stop by Kolento's Twitch channel every now and then, he speaks pretty good English as well: http://www.twitch.tv/kolento
Established Staples
Listed below are what seem to be absolute staples in any Paladin Control deck.
Equality - Always as a 2-of
Holy Light - Usually as a 1-of, but I have seen it as a 2-of on EU servers
Wild Pyromancer - Always as a 2-of
Aldor Peacekeeper - Always as a 2-of
Big Game Hunter - Always as a 1-of
Truesilver Champion - Always as a 2-of
Consecration - Always as a 2-of
Hammer of Wrath - Usually as a 1-of
Defender of Argus - Usually as a 1-of
Avenging Wrath - Usually as a 1-of
Cairne Bloodhoof - Legendary
Lay on Hands - Always as a 1-of
Tirion Fordring - Legendary
Given the fact that these 18-20 cards are seen in most, if not all, high level Paladin Control decks, its safe to say that we only have about 10-12 cards that we can actually customize in our own deck (before you start hurting the decks integrity). I always recommend players be creative and try their own things in decks, and knowing the core of the deck allows you to be pretty spontaneous and unique. So, realistically, just under 2/3rd's of the deck seems to be self made for us Paladin Control players, from here we just need to throw in all our meta and preference cards to deal with whatever else we struggle with in the format. Are you having poor results against Priest? Well add some Chillwind Yeti's or Twilight Drake's. Is Zoolock beating you down? Add in some Sen'jin Shieldmasta's and Earthen Ring Farseer's.
Preference Cards, Meta Cards, and Close Similarities
Listed Below are some things that you can mess around with, these aren't the only options available, just some quick idea's:
Sunfury Protector - Solid 2-drop and can give out Taunt, this is in a lot of Paladin Control decks.
Acolyte of Pain - I love this card, I think it is the extra card draw that we need as Paladin.
Blood Knight - Great for eating up the Divine Shield's on those Argent Squire's and Scarlet Crusader's.
Earthen Ring Farseer - Solid 3-drop that heals something for 3, so good utility.
Harvest Golem - Another Solid 3-drop, basically a 4/4 for 3.
Mind Control Tech - So many solid 3-drops, this one can really turn the momentum around.
Chillwind Yeti - Solid 4-drop, pretty hard for most classes to deal with by only using 1 card.
Leeroy Jenkins - Because why not? : ]
Sen'jin Shieldmasta - Great at slowing down Rush decks
Twilight Drake - Super Yeti.
Stampeding Kodo - This Minion is already in most Paladin decks actually.
Azure Drake - Incredible value and strong curve with Avenging Wrath the next turn.
As I mentioned above, there are plenty of other cards to throw in and mess around with, so please, try something new and crazy and tell us all if it works.
Class Versus Class Match Breakdown
I'm just going to do a real basic matchup breakdown, because there really is nothing better than actual experience, and things change up pretty often in the meta. In all honesty, the match breakdown is better to talk about as a reply below, that way its not just me answering, but instead, anyone who reads it can. And that's good for a multitude of reasons, some people might be more equipped to answer a certain question than I am. So please guys, if you have any questions on something more specific than the broad explanations I'm leaving below, don't be afraid to ask (and don't be afraid to answer if you know someone's question).
Warlock - You never really know what you are going to get when you go against a Warlock these days. A large majority of the time it will be Zoo, every now and then you will run into a Handlock on the ladder, and lastly you may still run into a Murlock once in a blue moon. Safest bet for you is to mulligan everything unless its a Consecration, Equality, or Wild Pyromancer.
Hunter - Truesilver Champion does work in all matchups, but versus Hunter in particular it's pretty huge. Two big cards you want to aggressively mulligan for are Truesilver and some Weapon destruction. Never ever put more than 2 bodies on the board unless you know both Unleash the Hounds have been used.
Warrior - This can be a very tricky matchup, you need to make sure you save a Big Game Hunter or Aldor Peacekeeper in hand at all times to deal with the first 7+ Attack creature you come across. Truesilver should be reserved for taking out Frothing Berserker's, Armorsmith's, and Acolyte's. One last thing, always be weary of Brawl.
Druid - This can be a pretty tough matchup, especially if they get the silence off on Ancient Watcher early enough or super Innervate combo's. Late game always be expecting the Savage Roar + Force of Nature combo which is exactly 14 damage on turn 9 even on an empty board. Always play around that and try and get an Aldor Peacekeeper or Equality in your starting hand to start the game.
Rogue - Probably one of the most annoying classes to play against in the game (imo). I feel like this matchup is just as much of a coinflip as Zoo is sometimes, but here is the worst part, the games with Rogue take twice as long. Some games they get that 28 damage burst on turn 8 or whatever it is, and sometimes they don't. There are a few different Rogue decks lingering around nowadays, just try to make sure you save your Equality combo's for when Conceal is used.
Shaman - Save Truesilver charges for taking out 0/3 special purpose totems and Unbound Elemental's if at all possible. Save Peacekeeper's for Fire Elemental's. Consecration and Hammer of Wrath can be very strong cards in this matchup for clearing or sniping totems. Always take Lightning Storm into consideration before overextending.
Mage - There are a few things that Mage can do that is frustrating, but the biggest card you need to try and play around is the Water Elemental. It is hard to say really how to play versus Mage right now, I just don't feel like they have a deck set in stone. The best advice I can give here is to always take your life total into consideration in conjunction with Pyroblast and to always play around Flamestrike and Blizzard to the best of your ability.
Priest - It is very rare that I see a Priest these days, but just always play reserving your best cards for when you can counter them with the cards in your own hand. In other words, you might as well not even play Tirion unless you have The Black Knight and Acidic Swamp Ooze in hand for the next turn after they Faceless or Mind Control it.
Paladin - Mirror matches are mirror matches. Mulligan to Truesilver Champion and try to get down a Cairne Bloodhoof or Tirion Fordring asap.
***Next Page
Midrange as an Alternative Deck
Midrange is probably my favorite style of deck to play. When I use to play Magic: the Gathering, the first home-brew deck that I would make for every new set was always Rock. Black, White, and Green were my absolute favorite colors (and sometimes Blue), so I'm sure MTG players out there know exactly where I'm coming from. But in Hearthstone, I tend to lean more towards Control decks. This may just have to do with the cards that are out right now, but who knows, only time will tell. As far Midrange Paladin decks go, they are very rare, I could only find one that really stuck out to me. In fact, it was the only one that I could find a streamer using in Legend.
m1ssf0xyiio7 (Last Updated: 04/16/2014)
This is m1ssf0xyiio7's Paladin Midrange deck. M1ssf0xyiio7 is a EU player that took a slightly different approach to the deck than most other top level Paladin's I have seen. In fact, this deck is very nearly a 50/50 mix between Midrange and Control. He runs Sword of Justice, double Azure Drake, double Stampeding Kodo, and double Avenging Wrath which is very aggressive and fits quite well in a Midrange deck. Then you also see him running the full suite of Taunt-givers, board sweepers, and 8-drop finishers. One of my favorite things about this deck is actually how simple it looks on paper. I mean you look at the list its just 2 of everything and then just 4 cards that are 1-ord. Great job with this deck, simple but effective.
Make sure to check out m1ssf0xyiio7 on his stream: http://www.twitch.tv/m1ssf0xyiio7
Midrange Variations and Similarities to Control Decks
Midrange Paladin decks can be very similar to Control Paladin decks. Now I know some people reading this are probably face-palming to that previous sentence. And that's fine, but the truth is, approximately 14 of the cards that I listed as the "core/staples" in all the control decks, are in this deck minus these 4:
Holy Light - Because of the aggressive nature of Midrange, there's no time for single function heals.
Big Game Hunter - Anything it can't deal with on board, it finally drops its board sweeper on.
Hammer of Wrath - Basically runs an additional Avenging Wrath instead of 1 Hammer and 1 Avenging.
Guardian of Kings - Anything above 8 mana has to be something that keeps you in the driver seat.
On top of that, the Midrange deck that I posted also shares a few cards with some of the control decks outside of the "staples":
Sunfury Protector - Koyuki's deck doesn't run these right now, but I believe he normally does.
Earthen Ring Farseer - Abver doesn't run these in his deck so that he can get to the Molten Giant's faster.
Stampeding Kodo - Abver is one of the only Paladin decks that doesn't run the Kodo.
Ragnaros the Firelord - Kolento and Koyuki aren't running this right now, too much RNG for some Control decks at that point of the game.
I'm sure there are a few other solid Midrange variations out there, but I really haven't seen any as of late. I know Reynad made a Midrange and Control deck and I looked them up, but they were just about as outdated as Kolento's deck I posted above, but I've never seen him play either of them (or at least not that I can remember). I did also manage to message Gabe Walls (TheGwalls) on his Twitch while he was playing yesterday (04/16/2014) because I noticed a Paladin deck in his roster. I asked him what kind it was, and he replied "its just beatdown." Now that could mean a few things all depending on your terminology/definitions, but I think it means something in-between Rush and Midrange. With the way the current meta is going, Midrange may be a slightly more favorable deck for us right now, especially considering it has a little more dominance in the early game. That could be pretty amazing against Rush decks. Something to consider at least.
Paladin Blitz as an Alternative Deck
Paladin Blitz/Rush/etc.. decks are very doable right now and can easily have 50/50 results against any matchup (ultimately giving you the opportunity to outplay your opponent most the time). Just like with any other Rush or Zoo deck, there are going to be those games where you get the most amazing pulls, that are going to be literally unbeatable. However, the games you don't get that pull, you may be at a greater disadvantage than most other classes in the same predicament. Warlock can Life Tap for more cards and Hunter can Steady Shot for more damage. Whereas, if we don't see that properly timed Divine Favor, we can run out of gas very quickly. Sometimes even with a Divine Favor, it just sits in our hand dead against other Rush matchups, which is probably our biggest weakness as Paladin Blitz. When one of our most important/powerful cards is dead against opposing Blitz decks.. that is a real problem.
"Mini Pally" by Holyrock
Holyrock has piloted this deck to Legends, so you know that Paladin can be very successful on the offense. I'm pretty sure I alluded to it earlier in this thread, but I'll go ahead and stress it again here; Control decks focus on shrinking the opponents minions and Blitz decks focus on buffing theirs, and that is exactly what we see in this deck list. Abusive Sergeant, Blessing of Might, Blessing of Kings, and even Argent Protector are all at home in this deck. Get some guys on the board early, support them the best that you can, and then squeeze by that extra damage needed to win the game. Not surprisingly there are 2 Leper Gnome's, 2 Avenging Wrath's, and tons of Charge creatures in here for maximum damage output. One thing that is really nice about this deck and worth noting is the synergy between King Mukla and Divine Favor. Playing both in one turn will probably net you a minimum of 4 cards.
"Winadin" by Master MaatiSan
This deck has a slightly different approach to buffing it's Minions than the "Mini Pally" does. It looks like MaatiSan is counting on Sword of Justice to buff his guys over Blessing of Might. I think personally I like the SoJ's over the BoM's because of the extra Utility in being able to take out something with 1 Toughness. However, I do still see the Utility in getting that quick extra 3 Attack from BoM to either punch through that last bit of Damage or finish off a Taunt Minion. It also looks like both decks are running the Sergeants and Protectors for the quick buffs and early momentum plays. Interestingly, MaatiSan's deck is running only 1 Divine Favor and 1 Lay on Hands.
*On a side note, it seems that no matter what Paladin deck that we find these days, it is going to be running dubs Equality. Even these Rush decks are running it as a 2-of.*
So there you have it, pretty straight forward. Both Aggro decks that I posted were pretty similar but at the same time very unique. It looked as though the only real difference was the "Mini Pally" deck was more focused on barging through and getting that damage out as fast as possible. Whereas, the "Winadin" deck, was more about completely owning the board with cards like Knife Juggler, Noble Sacrifice, and Scarlet Crusader. All in all, you want to fill up the board, only trade if its favorable, and send everything else to the dome. While I don't necessarily prefer these kinds of decks, every now and then it does feel good to play them. It can be a really nice way to blow off some steam.
Priority Crafting List
I'm just going to add this little piece to the thread so that people know what to craft first and what to use in place of cards that they don't have yet.
Anything after that is really just a matter of preference.
Summary
I really hope this Thread helps people out or that they at least just enjoyed reading it. I have a real passion for games, figuring them out, playing them, talking to people about them, writing guides for them, and competing in them. If you have any questions or comments please post it on here. I would really like for this Thread to become the home of all things Ranked/Competitive Paladin (at least on Hearthpwn).
Oh, and don't forget to always PUT YOUR FAITH IN THE LIGHT!
***RESERVING THIS SPOT FOR ANY ADDITIONAL INFO***
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Edit: I wrote about m1ssf0xyiio7 but you already put him in your post!
Well done, really great stuff.
Very good article, thanks.
Doctor
Your "number one con" is actually nonexistant. Paladin does have big finisher potential. Leeroy Jenkins + Blessing of Might + Faceless Manipulator OR Blessed Champion = 18 dmg, which is more than your typical force of nature + savage roar combo.
You can't compare 3-card combo to 2-card combo
Tell me then, what classes have high damage 2-card combos? Even still you don't need the blessing of might per say, leeroy jenkins + faceless manipulator (which can be done with every class) is still a ton of damage. 14 damage from force of nature + savage roar isn't much better than 12 damage from leeroy + faceless, and the leeroy combo has more potential to use additional cards for even more damage.
Idk, 3-card combos require lots of card-draws.. or luck to pull off. He also says the con is for control decks so blessing of might you'll probably not include just for a finishing combo.
For classes other than Druid, Warriors have Grommash + Cruel Taskmaster, Shamans have Windfury + Rockbiter, Rogues, Warlocks and Hunters have low-mana cost 3 or even 4 card combos thanks to their great card draws(Miracle Rogue, Starving Buzzard, Warlock Hero Power..)
Paladin (or priest and mage) just doesn't excel in finishing as well as other classes and that's what he is saying. That's just my opinion though.
Windfury + Rockbiter is a 3 card combo, because you need something on the field or a charge card. 3-card combos are actually pretty easy in my opinion, anything beyond that gets pretty iffy. Miracle rogue combos aren't instant damage, you usually have a turn to deal with what they have before they combo you. Hunter combos typically lack damage... although there are some 4+ card combos that can hit hard. Blessing of might isn't a bad card to have in any deck, just don't run two unless it has a good purpose.
So pretty much the only other 2 card combo you mentioned is grommash + cruel taskmaster OR inner rage, which is the same dmg as leeroy + faceless.
There is no lack of ability for paladins to hit hard... His specifics words were talking about one turn instant damage which isn't the same as how well the class finishes the opponent. If you're having a hard time finishing as control paladin then run Alexstrasza to help you along.
Personally I don't believe that paladin is a weak class, but I also don't play at the higher levels. Does anyone remember when druid became popular out of nowhere? It was considered a pretty bad class and nothing changed but suddenly it became very popular and people considered it to be the best class for a while. Then they nerfed tinkmaster and now people think that druid is horrible. One card doesn't make or break the deck... The fact that tinkmaster could give your opponent a 5/5 made him risky and a removal for only the most powerful of minions. As the meta changes people change their minds on what they think about each class. Priest even became popular for a time, despite nothing changing. Honestly the community is ruled by people that watch streamers and believe that whatever class they play is overpowered because they keep winning with it.
OK, it's not horrible, I just don't like it. I'd suggest you put a BGH in that deck for Blessing of Might + BGH for another nice combo.
As someone who's doing the climb as a paladin, I'd like to thank you for the time invested in this guide. While I've learned how to play against Warrior, Warlocks and Hunters due to the over-abundance of them, it's nice to see some tips for other classes which I'd be afraid I wouldn't know how to handle.
First of all, I tried to mention that we don't have the potential in our Control decks. What I will add later to clear everything up, is that there is also no need to have the potential in said decks. I say that because Paladin has Defensive abilities to make it through the game, not offensive ones. Where Warrior has Slam, Druid has Wrath, and Rogues have Backstab/Shiv, Paladin has Holy Light. With that in mind, what good would a 10+ dmg burst be with our opponent at 25+ health? Si: Agent 7, Frothing Berserker, and Unbound Elemental can be very aggressive, but Paladin has Aldor Peacekeeper. There is nothing wrong with Peacekeeper, he is just going a different direction if you see what I'm saying.
The quote below mentions that you think we should also run Alexstrasza. Try it out man, wait for that game you get Alex vs a Rush/zoo deck. I'm sure here you will probably reason in your mind something along the lines of, "well handlock can do it," and you are sure right, so can Warrior, but with Hero Powers and Removal like what they have, they can do just about whatever they want (Especially Warlock). I'm not going to bash you like I feel you did me, but I am going to point out that this is why I made this thread and the whole "Staple" section. You know all you need to know to make Paladin Control now and Ladder with it. There are 10-12 spots left for you to add whatever meta/combo's makes your heart happy. Just remember, we don't have a way to cycle through our cards like Warrior, Druid, Rogue, Hunter, and Warlock do. If you get the deck to work with combo's like Leeroy + Alex + Faceless, please come back to us on here and report it, we are looking to win man, we don't care what it takes or to admit we were wrong. JUSTICE DEMANDS RETRIBUTION!
So real quick, let me get this straight, you don't even play Paladin at higher ranks. Okay, understood. Everything that you mentioned above makes sense now. I'm not going to make fun of you man, I'm really not, I literally just totally understand now where you are coming from. On paper, Alex + Leeroy + Faceless + BoM look good, they really do. Did you know that I have even tried that combo in Paladin? But, as I already stated in this reply, the real problem that Paladin is having is making it through the early stages of the game alive. What also happens when we add things like that, is we start hurting the integrity of the deck. When we add combo's like that to our deck, what early game potential are we going to lose against the majority of the environment (like Rush/Zoo)? Don't get me wrong, if we had the early game removal, cycle, and bodies as other Control decks, trust me man, we would be running it in our control decks too (and we'd have a reason to run the burst you are talking about at that point). But Paladin has to take a slightly different approach to it than other classes because of our skill/creature set.
I'm not trying to come across as offensive and I'm sure you aren't either, lets keep it friendly in here, I'll update the Thread after work tonight to stress the things that I stressed to you here, good eye man, thank you for pointing out something that is very confusing. I apologize for the misunderstanding.
So many decks for one thread. (That is a good thing)
Only tried Mini-paly so far, but will try them all eventually.
Not sure if hyped yet.
Thoughts on Baron Geddon?
I feel like he could be a good replacement for Rag since most of the time there are too many minions for Rag to do anything and having an additional consecrate is nice as well!
Any tips on this new kolento hunter deck? It's pretty crazy because your punished for playing too many minions and then your punished for not playing enough against value cards such as the Savannah Highmane.. Tough time to be a paladin...
Oh and great write up. I never took the time to analyse the class as a whole and as such I missed the fact that there are so many cards that are solely dependent on the current meta. I'm going to have to take a look at my decklist and see if I can change anything to do better against Hunters and Warlocks.
None that I've found. Went from rank 3 (4 stars) to rank 7 and it's all hunters and I don't know to deal, I've thrown in silences but it doesn't do anything.
Okay, well real quick on Hunters, this is just from personal experience and watching top level streamers:
Those are the biggest tips that I can think of versus Hunter off the top of my head. Believe it or not, I think Paladin has a pretty favorable matchup against Hunter. Truesilver Champion should usually be swung at their face for a 6 point life swing (each swing, so that's 12 points over 2 swings). Hope this helps
I know this took a lot of effort and its gorgeous! Thank you very much!
Been running the Mid-Range Paladin deck list and thanks to your guide I've been having some pretty good success. Well Met!