Hearthpwn

Quote from Tpib5 »

The deck I've been using:

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Minion (21) 1x Ragnaros the Firelord 1x Tirion Fordring 2x Aldor Peacekeeper 2x Defender of Argus 2x Knife Juggler 2x Argent Protector 2x Argent Squire 2x Faerie Dragon 2x Harvest Golem 1x Southsea Deckhand 2x Worgen Infiltrator 2x Shattered Sun Cleric	Ability (5) 2x Divine Favor 1x Blessing of Kings 2x Consecration	Weapon (4) 2x Sword of Justice 2x Truesilver Champion

The basic play style is:

Early game:  By far the most important part with my deck.  Turn 1: worgen or squire or coined faerie dragon.  Turn 2: faerie dragon or coin SoJ or coin peacekeeper an innervate or use a shield to kill their drop.  I try to get a 2 creature board advantage or a SoJ out by turn 2 and then keep that advantage throughout the game.  From there it's just making the plays that allow you to trade or face punch to your advantage.  I typically trade against aggro and push against control, but each game is unique.

Midgame:  I almost always have an advantage early game, in the midgame they will wipe your board or throw taunts up.  If they wipe the board I usually dump my hand to instantly regain board control (if I have a divine favor).  I use minions/consecration/bubble/peacekeepers/sword/BoK to get through taunts.  I try to send out "waves" of creatures in one turn and then slowroll recruits between the waves.  I save knife jugglers for late midgame.  Around turns 6-7 knife jugglers plus a few small guys really start to work well.  SoJ is a monster midgame when you put out 3-4 buffed creatures in a turn.

Late Game:  Most games usually don't get to late game, but if it does I have them low on health and I use Rag, Tirion, truesilver, or another swarm to finish.

Overall, the deck has 14 +1/+1 buffs and 5 weapons.  Those add up over time and it's really hard for your opponent to get and maintain board control.

The deck does somewhat rely on divine favor, but usually it's not needed till turn 5-6 and odds are you'll have one by then.  It also helps that most people assume it's a control pally deck and by the time they realize it's not it's too late.  It's also nice that this deck can ignore things like nat pagle, mana totem, etc.  Draw for them = draw for you too.  They waste tempo and you can get solid board control and punch to the face.  It is common that I'll get a 5+ card draw with divine favor against control decks.

The deck does well against all 3 lock decks, druid control, both rogue decks, "whats yours is mine" priest, hunter control, mage giants, mage aggro, murlocs.  It's just too much to handle for most control decks.  It's 50/50 against UtH hunter (depends if you can get taunts up), pally control (depends if they draw heals or avenging wrath), watcher priests, and charge decks (depends on speed and if you draw taunts).  It struggles against shaman (they have too many waves of taunt/AoE).  It also struggles against the frothing berzerker/armorsmith warrior deck if they get weapons early.  The 4 health minions are too much to get through early game (Maybe I'm playing this matchup wrong?).  I haven't played against much miracle rogue or against the current "OTKish" decks, but I assume it would be favorable.

You are not considering this an aggro deck are you?

Quote from DaLighzic »

Quote from Tpib5 »

The deck I've been using:

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Minion (21) 1x Ragnaros the Firelord 1x Tirion Fordring 2x Aldor Peacekeeper 2x Defender of Argus 2x Knife Juggler 2x Argent Protector 2x Argent Squire 2x Faerie Dragon 2x Harvest Golem 1x Southsea Deckhand 2x Worgen Infiltrator 2x Shattered Sun Cleric	Ability (5) 2x Divine Favor 1x Blessing of Kings 2x Consecration	Weapon (4) 2x Sword of Justice 2x Truesilver Champion

The basic play style is:

Early game:  By far the most important part with my deck.  Turn 1: worgen or squire or coined faerie dragon.  Turn 2: faerie dragon or coin SoJ or coin peacekeeper an innervate or use a shield to kill their drop.  I try to get a 2 creature board advantage or a SoJ out by turn 2 and then keep that advantage throughout the game.  From there it's just making the plays that allow you to trade or face punch to your advantage.  I typically trade against aggro and push against control, but each game is unique.

Midgame:  I almost always have an advantage early game, in the midgame they will wipe your board or throw taunts up.  If they wipe the board I usually dump my hand to instantly regain board control (if I have a divine favor).  I use minions/consecration/bubble/peacekeepers/sword/BoK to get through taunts.  I try to send out "waves" of creatures in one turn and then slowroll recruits between the waves.  I save knife jugglers for late midgame.  Around turns 6-7 knife jugglers plus a few small guys really start to work well.  SoJ is a monster midgame when you put out 3-4 buffed creatures in a turn.

Late Game:  Most games usually don't get to late game, but if it does I have them low on health and I use Rag, Tirion, truesilver, or another swarm to finish.

Overall, the deck has 14 +1/+1 buffs and 5 weapons.  Those add up over time and it's really hard for your opponent to get and maintain board control.

The deck does somewhat rely on divine favor, but usually it's not needed till turn 5-6 and odds are you'll have one by then.  It also helps that most people assume it's a control pally deck and by the time they realize it's not it's too late.  It's also nice that this deck can ignore things like nat pagle, mana totem, etc.  Draw for them = draw for you too.  They waste tempo and you can get solid board control and punch to the face.  It is common that I'll get a 5+ card draw with divine favor against control decks.

The deck does well against all 3 lock decks, druid control, both rogue decks, "whats yours is mine" priest, hunter control, mage giants, mage aggro, murlocs.  It's just too much to handle for most control decks.  It's 50/50 against UtH hunter (depends if you can get taunts up), pally control (depends if they draw heals or avenging wrath), watcher priests, and charge decks (depends on speed and if you draw taunts).  It struggles against shaman (they have too many waves of taunt/AoE).  It also struggles against the frothing berzerker/armorsmith warrior deck if they get weapons early.  The 4 health minions are too much to get through early game (Maybe I'm playing this matchup wrong?).  I haven't played against much miracle rogue or against the current "OTKish" decks, but I assume it would be favorable.

You are not considering this an aggro deck are you?

Any deck with 2 Sword of Justice is a mid-range deck. 

Quote from Tpib5 »

Quote from saadatorama»Why do you run 2 Sword of Justice? Just curious... when I ran aggro Paladin, I found it to be more common a case where I have 2 SoJ sitting in hand and no use for it...

I've found I burn through them quickly with so many low cost minions.  It's one of the main early game engines for my deck.  I try to get SoJ out ASAP and pick off a one health minion with it.

There is the occasional game where I end up with 2 SoJ in my hand, but that's just the luck of the draw.  I'd rather have the option of playing two instead of not drawing one.  The odds of having 2 SoJ in my hand and not being able to rapidly play them are low.

Plus if the first one gets oozed you have a backup.  It's a tempo loss, but this deck can generate tempo extremely fast, so that's not as big of an issue compared to the control pally deck.

My deck isn't a pure "aggro" deck either.  I take time to set things up (when the match allows it).  I often play it as control in matchups till about turn 4-5.

If your deck is centered around Sword of Justice I would recommend adding more low cost minions (Leper Gnome or Demolisher would be very strong here.. even an Angry Chicken). Leeroy Jenkins would be greater value than a Ragnaros the Firelord here too, imo. Leeroy Jenkins or Argent Commander with a Blessing of Might is godlike. Lastly, I would consider running another Blessing of Kings, again because it seems your play style/deck is centered around the 2x SoJ

You are not considering this an aggro deck are you?

I don't really consider it an aggro deck.  I'm not sure exactly what to call it, so I've been using "swarm".  It's more midrange than aggro like Saadatorma said.  The deck can be very fast though with the right draw.

If your deck is centered around Sword of Justice I would recommend adding more low cost minions (Leper Gnomeor Demolisher would be very strong here.. even an Angry Chicken). Leeroy Jenkins would be greater value than a Ragnaros the Firelord here too, imo. Leeroy Jenkins or Argent Commander with a Blessing of Might is godlike. Lastly, I would consider running another Blessing of Kings, again because it seems your play style/deck is centered around the 2x SoJ

Yeah I've considered adding in a larger charge minion instead of Southsea deckhand.  Deckhand just doesn't have enough punch sometimes.  The plus is it's a 1 drop so I can play it with several other minions in a turn.

I agree Leeroy is better then Rag in this deck to help finish earlier, but I don't have a Leeroy yet.  Soon...

My primary use of kings is to get through a taunt.  I'll occasionally use it as aggro, but I'd say 4/5 times I use it to kill a taunt.

I agree all of the cards you listed would be a good addition to the deck (except maybe the angry chicken!).  I don't know what to replace though.  I've considered replacing the squires with leper gnomes, but squires are pretty good both early and mid game where leper gnomes are only good early.  The shield + buffs is so strong.  Squires often end up as a 3/3 with taunt and a shield mid game, not bad for a 1 drop.  I feel like Knife juggler, peacekeeper, protector, worgens, divine favor, truesilver, consecration, SoJ, and DoA are all must keeps.   Harvest golem has great synergy with SoJ to trade with other golems.  Shattered sun cleric also helps trade in my favor.

So how are you guys beating mid-range Druid with the OP deck list without Wild Pyromancer and Equality, pretty much Divine Favor?

Side note...  sorry if this thread got hijacked a bit.  I initially jumped into the "divine favor is awesome" and "worgen vs noble sac" discussions and that spun into discussing the swarm deck.  Some similarities to the OP deck, but it should probably be a separate thread/discussion.  It's nice to see a bunch of different perspectives and styles though.

Which druid deck are you talking about?  The savage roar/force of nature or "hit them with the big drops"?  I'm usually faster than the force of nature deck so that's a favorable matchup.  I haven't run into the "hit them with the big drops" deck very much (thankfully).  Are that many people running it?  The few times I've faced it the druid deck defiantly has an advantage.  Any deck that slowrolls big taunts and has some AoE is a bad matchup for my swarm deck (less than 50/50).

I see draws (Divine favor and innervate) as a key in that matchup.  I try to out tempo it and kill it before they can draw their combos and get the deck rolling.  I play it pretty much the same as the druid control deck and the force of nature deck, which makes mulligans easier.  If they draw innervate and I don't have a divine favor or a peacekeeper that's bad.  If they don't draw an innervate I can usually out tempo them.  Peacekeepers allow you to trade favorably into big taunts.

I can usually minimize the impact of swipes with shields and buffs.  Starfall is usually close to a board wipe, but I can reload.  The keepers hurt though.  Silence/ping removes one creature and 4 health is usually the threshold for "favorable trades" with my deck.

It's defiantly a tough (luck based?) matchup for my deck.  The old control druid deck was favorable because I out paced it.  The new druid midrange deck is tougher.  Is the DKMR deck fast enough to regularly beat the druid?

All Druid decks are Savage Roar and Force of Nature decks, but right now at ranks 5 thru' Legendary Ancient Watcher has become the metagame for Druids, Shamans and Warlocks as well as the token generators like Violet Teacher and Imp Master - Innervating Imp Master is brutal on turn 1, I have a strong suspicion that Imp Master should replace Harvest Golem in all Druid decks at this point forward because the potentiality of Innervating Imp Master on turn one, clearing the board with your hero power on turn 2 and then Savage Roaring the board on Turn 3 is insane.

I don't think any deck is fast enough to outright race Druid or Shaman right now, we're living in a world of turn 2 or turn 3 4/5 or 5/6 Taunts which Silence does not solve and running head long into Stormforged Axe, Feral Spirits, Earth Shock, Forked Lightning and Lightning Storm while ramping their mana with Arcane Golem or giving them tokens for Defender of Argus and Sunfury Protector is not ideal. I don't think it's even a question of "play styles" at this point, you can't beat Druid without Equality and Druid is the most popular deck on ladder.

I just haven't found the meta to be as dramatic as you describe.  I haven't played constructed a ton in season 3 though and I'm only up to rank 10.  The good thing about the meta is it constantly evolves.  Whats painful today will be better tomorrow.

That watcher/sunfury thing has been around for a long time though, priests used to run it back in season 2.  I've found Peacekeeper is a good answer for the watcher gimmick.  Peacekeeper is kind of the same thing as equality for one big taunt.  Just slower tempo and you get a 3/3.  A lot of those watcher decks lose badly if they don't draw the combo too.

Shammy's are tough.  Defiantly the toughest match up for my wave deck.  They just have too many answers.  You have to hope for good draws (or bad draws for them).  Every deck has a bad match up though.

I like the looks of this deck. im currently less then 2 weeks into hs and paladin is my favorite class to use. but I mostly use a control build with almost all basic cards. crafted aldors and argents only atm. but I get bored playing same versions of deck so much so I think Im going to try this out for some fun but modified a little since I have no access to Leroy. do have a millhouse from arena pack

Spent awhile laddering with the OP deck list and I think I've found the problem, replace Noble Sacrifice with Redemption and now Charge minions can attack into a Taunt twice - this allows a single Wolfrider to clear the board vs Feral Spirits or a Druid of the Claw.

I've been messing around with a variant of this deck that uses Sword of Justice, and I've been seeing good results, but I'm starting to plateau and have a couple of questions:

1. How necessary is the second Divine Favor? I rarely find myself in a situation where I need to use two Divine Favors. The first Divine Favor will usually yield a large number of cards, and then the second one will be dead weight for a while until it ends up usually as being an Arcane Intellect. I take it that the usefulness of that one Divine Favor warrants carrying two just for the increased chance of drawing it?

2. How do people feel about Consecration? I've been having a lot of problems with decks that have a lot of minions and I don't really know how else to deal with them besides running a Consecration. Is the AoE damage worth it, or should I be looking to something else instead?

Quote from t0furkey »

I've been messing around with a variant of this deck that uses Sword of Justice, and I've been seeing good results, but I'm starting to plateau and have a couple of questions:

1. How necessary is the second Divine Favor? I rarely find myself in a situation where I need to use two Divine Favors. The first Divine Favor will usually yield a large number of cards, and then the second one will be dead weight for a while until it ends up usually as being an Arcane Intellect. I take it that the usefulness of that one Divine Favor warrants carrying two just for the increased chance of drawing it?

2. How do people feel about Consecration? I've been having a lot of problems with decks that have a lot of minions and I don't really know how else to deal with them besides running a Consecration. Is the AoE damage worth it, or should I be looking to something else instead?

1. The 2nd Divine Favor is in the deck for consistency

2. You should be clearing the board with your minions and dictating the flow of the game that way so Consecration is not necessary. If you're finding yourself having trouble making favorable trades I recommend practicing or going for a later/slower deck if you want to run consecration. That being said, there's nothing wrong with adding one, but it will slow the deck down, overall.

Quote from FinalFortune »

Spent awhile laddering with the OP deck list and I think I've found the problem, replace Noble Sacrifice with Redemption and now Charge minions can attack into a Taunt twice - this allows a single Wolfrider to clear the board vs Feral Spirits or a Druid of the Claw.

Yes. I have also found putting in Redemption and Youthful Brewmaster provide more options to get around the various taunt creatures.

Has replaced Mukla with Brewmaster because i seldom find it surviving the round when I put it out.

Also considering replacing one of the Arcane Golem with Argent Commander or Rocketeer because of Redemption.

Quote from WatCult »

Quote from FinalFortune »

Spent awhile laddering with the OP deck list and I think I've found the problem, replace Noble Sacrifice with Redemption and now Charge minions can attack into a Taunt twice - this allows a single Wolfrider to clear the board vs Feral Spirits or a Druid of the Claw.

Yes. I have also found putting in Redemption and Youthful Brewmaster provide more options to get around the various taunt creatures.

Has replaced Mukla with Brewmaster because i seldom find it surviving the round when I put it out.

Also considering replacing one of the Arcane Golem with Argent Commander or Rocketeer because of Redemption.

 

Odd.. you're getting a 5/5 removed turn 3?

Divine Shield also looks reasonable if you don't want to spend the 80 dust on redemption, I think what I was noticing when I was playing the deck was that I just didn't have enough answers to decks with upwards of 4 to 6 taunts and Noble Sacrifice just didn't make any sense in an aggressive deck. I also ended up cutting Avenging Wrath so I could run the full set of Blessing of Kings and Dark Iron Dwarf so I could swing thru' a taunt earlier or have sustained pressure.

Quote from saadatorama »

Quote from WatCult »

Quote from FinalFortune »

Spent awhile laddering with the OP deck list and I think I've found the problem, replace Noble Sacrifice with Redemption and now Charge minions can attack into a Taunt twice - this allows a single Wolfrider to clear the board vs Feral Spirits or a Druid of the Claw.

Yes. I have also found putting in Redemption and Youthful Brewmaster provide more options to get around the various taunt creatures.

Has replaced Mukla with Brewmaster because i seldom find it surviving the round when I put it out.

Also considering replacing one of the Arcane Golem with Argent Commander or Rocketeer because of Redemption.

 

Odd.. you're getting a 5/5 removed turn 3?

Don't think I got Mukla out on turn 3 before. Usually, it is out in the later turns. They will use the 2 banana to pump their smaller creatures to kill it.

Quote from FinalFortune »

So how are you guys beating mid-range Druid with the OP deck list without Wild Pyromancer and Equality, pretty much Divine Favor?

Turn 1 Argent Squire, Turn 2 Blessing of Might. Or similarly strong openings. Favor is hit or miss depending on if they play around it. Divine Favor wins any game you get to play it for 4+.

Quote from saadatorama »

Quote from t0furkey »

I've been messing around with a variant of this deck that uses Sword of Justice, and I've been seeing good results, but I'm starting to plateau and have a couple of questions:

1. How necessary is the second Divine Favor? I rarely find myself in a situation where I need to use two Divine Favors. The first Divine Favor will usually yield a large number of cards, and then the second one will be dead weight for a while until it ends up usually as being an Arcane Intellect. I take it that the usefulness of that one Divine Favor warrants carrying two just for the increased chance of drawing it?

2. How do people feel about Consecration? I've been having a lot of problems with decks that have a lot of minions and I don't really know how else to deal with them besides running a Consecration. Is the AoE damage worth it, or should I be looking to something else instead?

1. The 2nd Divine Favor is in the deck for consistency

2. You should be clearing the board with your minions and dictating the flow of the game that way so Consecration is not necessary. If you're finding yourself having trouble making favorable trades I recommend practicing or going for a later/slower deck if you want to run consecration. That being said, there's nothing wrong with adding one, but it will slow the deck down, overall.

Mostly this. Although your minions really aren't meant for trading since they're mostly X/1s. You can outrace other aggro decks and force them to trade. Using Hero Power more frequently lets you use the 1/1s to trade. A one-of Consecration isn't awful if you're always running into aggro or Shaman, but it's going to be pretty worthless in some other match-ups.

Quote from Varranis »

Quote from saadatorama »

Quote from t0furkey »

I've been messing around with a variant of this deck that uses Sword of Justice, and I've been seeing good results, but I'm starting to plateau and have a couple of questions:

1. How necessary is the second Divine Favor? I rarely find myself in a situation where I need to use two Divine Favors. The first Divine Favor will usually yield a large number of cards, and then the second one will be dead weight for a while until it ends up usually as being an Arcane Intellect. I take it that the usefulness of that one Divine Favor warrants carrying two just for the increased chance of drawing it?

2. How do people feel about Consecration? I've been having a lot of problems with decks that have a lot of minions and I don't really know how else to deal with them besides running a Consecration. Is the AoE damage worth it, or should I be looking to something else instead?

1. The 2nd Divine Favor is in the deck for consistency

2. You should be clearing the board with your minions and dictating the flow of the game that way so Consecration is not necessary. If you're finding yourself having trouble making favorable trades I recommend practicing or going for a later/slower deck if you want to run consecration. That being said, there's nothing wrong with adding one, but it will slow the deck down, overall.

Mostly this. Although your minions really aren't meant for trading since they're mostly X/1s. You can outrace other aggro decks and force them to trade. Using Hero Power more frequently lets you use the 1/1s to trade. A one-of Consecration isn't awful if you're always running into aggro or Shaman, but it's going to be pretty worthless in some other match-ups.

I disagree that you can out damage other aggro decks. Paladin is on the bottom end of the aggro front - the non-stop buffs and 2:1 trades is what makes the Paladin strong. I agree that a consecration isn't the best addition to this deck; that card is really good for board clearing but alone it's relatively useless.

Hey Guys I really love the participation in this thread :). Means alot to me. If you guys have any specific questions on the deck make sure to check out the guide posted on my teams website or ask anything you want here! I will ask a few of the legends about your question specifically :).

Quote from saadatorama »

Quote from Varranis »

Quote from saadatorama »

Quote from t0furkey »

I've been messing around with a variant of this deck that uses Sword of Justice, and I've been seeing good results, but I'm starting to plateau and have a couple of questions:

1. How necessary is the second Divine Favor? I rarely find myself in a situation where I need to use two Divine Favors. The first Divine Favor will usually yield a large number of cards, and then the second one will be dead weight for a while until it ends up usually as being an Arcane Intellect. I take it that the usefulness of that one Divine Favor warrants carrying two just for the increased chance of drawing it?

2. How do people feel about Consecration? I've been having a lot of problems with decks that have a lot of minions and I don't really know how else to deal with them besides running a Consecration. Is the AoE damage worth it, or should I be looking to something else instead?

1. The 2nd Divine Favor is in the deck for consistency

2. You should be clearing the board with your minions and dictating the flow of the game that way so Consecration is not necessary. If you're finding yourself having trouble making favorable trades I recommend practicing or going for a later/slower deck if you want to run consecration. That being said, there's nothing wrong with adding one, but it will slow the deck down, overall.

Mostly this. Although your minions really aren't meant for trading since they're mostly X/1s. You can outrace other aggro decks and force them to trade. Using Hero Power more frequently lets you use the 1/1s to trade. A one-of Consecration isn't awful if you're always running into aggro or Shaman, but it's going to be pretty worthless in some other match-ups.

I disagree that you can out damage other aggro decks. Paladin is on the bottom end of the aggro front - the non-stop buffs and 2:1 trades is what makes the Paladin strong. I agree that a consecration isn't the best addition to this deck; that card is really good for board clearing but alone it's relatively useless.

No other class has cards as aggressive as Blessing of Might and Truesilver Champion. Divine Favor is the other big plus you get. It's basically a more situational version of the Warlock Hero Power that doesn't cost life, has to be drawn, and gives you all the draws at once.