In this thread i am presenting a few ideas, not a deck to copy pasta. I believe that with classic + naxx + GvG cardpool we can possibly brainstorm the new handlock / control warrior.
What the deck needs at the start is a finisher. How to get there we'll find out (warrior stalls with board control obtained by spells, weapons and trowing legendaries at you, while gaining a bunch of armor, basicly). It's not hard for a paladin to stall anyways, so we'll get there.
Instead of 18 damage burst we can now only deal 12, which is inline with grommash + taskmaster so we're not in a bad spot. Both combos cost 10 mana (either faceless or blessed champion).
However, Arcane Golem with Blessing of Might and Faceless Manipulator gives us 14 damage with 3 cards, which is delicious considering how opponents now feel safe against a paladin (expected burst is 8 damage, double consecration and truesilver champion).
The common problem with combo wombos and paladin though is and always will be the card draw. Now let's pretend for a second that Blessing of Might can be useful over the course of a game as a quasi-Lightning Bolt (using it on a guy to deal extra 3 damage) and doesn't f*ck up the deck playing two copies.
Neutral card draw options (i'm NOT gonna include cantrips) are;
Acolyte of Pain (not guaranteed to draw more then 1 though, as we don't have effects)
Cult Master Could get some sick ciclying going with Muster, BUT it does require board presence and sh*t to trade to work.
Gadgetzan Auctioneer is where things get partially intresting. Spare parts are neutral spells, spare parts minions aren't necessarily awful and 1 or 2 Avenge could be added to increase the odds of getting 4 draws with 10 mana while developing a 4/4 and doing some mumbo-jumbo with spare parts.
Class card draw are;
Divine Favor (requires you to have almost no cards, and the opponent to have cards, i say it's unreliable for a control deck).
Lay on Hands (8 mana and no board effect, ok let's move on).
Blessing of Wisdom (this could be intresting, played on high health + low attack enemy minions like Twilight Drake or Harvest Golem, or on own minions with divine shield while having board control). Unreliable and slow though, not guaranteed more then 1 draw.
Our best option so far is Gadgetzan Auctioneer with spare parts (WTF) or an unreasonable amount of cantrips (Drakes, Hammer of Wrath, Gnomish, Loot Hoarders).
So while our finisher is pretty much been determined between arcane golem or leeroy, the addition of Alexstrasza could be useful to make sure our opponent is low enough (bar healing happening, but that's a thing warriors have to deal with aswell).
Now what i ask you is how the hell we're gonna make a control paladin with decent card draw, considering all the options.
The initial premise of this exercise is wrong - control decks specifically do NOT need a finisher - if the game goes long enough you will win anyways regardless due to the superior value of your cards, so there is no reason to dilute the deck with cards whose only purpose is to end the game early.
This isn't a control deck at all; it's something akin to Paladin Miracle with worse card draw so it has to stall longer.
I would gladly do without the miracle part tbh, but a control deck with a finisher needs some sort of card draw, even half decent.
It's a deck aimed at the ladder, where you can easily get a win bursting out 14 damage out of a paladin.
But honestly, i was just considering all the card draw / finisher options. I would like the deck to play out with a pressure similar to control warrior or midrange druid, where you feel threatened to lethal with a weapon out being at 15 hp.
Again, not really aiming to draw the deck and combo wombo. Just evaluating options.
Matchups where you feel like you NEED a finisher include spare parts mage and handlock. If jaraxxus comes out at the right time you can't burst 10+ damage and you automatically lose to infernals.
The initial premise of this exercise is wrong - control decks specifically do NOT need a finisher - if the game goes long enough you will win anyways regardless due to the superior value of your cards, so there is no reason to dilute the deck with cards whose only purpose is to end the game early.
This isn't a control deck at all; it's something akin to Paladin Miracle with worse card draw so it has to stall longer.
Yes, but look at how much Gromm helps warriors. Control warrior wouldn't be nearly as good without him, and just about any warrior will tell you don't even bother trying to make the deck unless you have him.
As to the OP, I too find that card draw is the main problem with control paladin. Acolyte works for warriors because they have ways to instantly proc it, but unless a pally runs wild pyro, then there is no such luxury, and of course the synergy between pryo and muster/hero power is horrid. Pally's best bet with acolyte is to play it after Aldor or Humilty and hope that your acolyte survives for a turn or doesn't get silenced so you can actually get some use out of him.
First off, the OP confuses me to hell. Why name the thread ...Warrior and then proceed to only talk about Paladin combo's? Anyway I will contribute an untested concoction of mine, a control Warrior deck based on minions with strong battlecry effects combined with Youthful Brewmasters and Recombobulators. I call it the Kongfu Pandaland Warrior!
Whoops. Sorry if i confused some people with the title ^^
Imo any class can do with a finisher if the cards that are in the combo aren't terrible on their own. I mean playing one Faceless Manipulatoris no big deal, the card itself isn't bad, it just rotated out of the meta. But even if you faceless a Doomguard or a Piloted Sky Golem is not bad value, or an Ancient of War.
What i'm concerned about is having Arcane Golem and Blessing of Might, with such limited card draw having these two garbage cards in hand can and will screw us.
I played against a warlock who used Arcane Golem with double Power Overwhelming andFaceless Manipulator to deal 24 damage on turn 10 and win. The whole game he played spells and owls to take board control and silence both of my belchers. That's probably the only way I see Arcane Golem being good as a finisher.
you can atleast change the name of the thread once you realized you talk total nonsense?
"Let's make the new control warrior" where control warrior is short for "Let's make an all around balanced control deck that can pressure you when under a certain life total". That would have been a bit too long. So the thread title is pertinent with the content, maybe not totally clear, but just because someone happened to click it from the home page and didn't read the first two lines before replying it's not my fault.
There's no need to be rude about it. If the thread does not intrest you, by all means, just ignore me / it. I will try to change it however to give you some peace of mind and to make it more self-explanatory for other people aswell.
I played against a warlock who used Arcane Golem with double Power Overwhelming andFaceless Manipulator to deal 24 damage on turn 10 and win. The whole game he played spells and owls to take board control and silence both of my belchers. That's probably the only way I see Arcane Golem being good as a finisher.
That is a recent deck from Darkwonyx i think, but i believe handlocks have used charge minions with faceless also in the past as finishers. Something like leeroy + power overwhelming + faceless, which did 4 less damage but required 1 less card.
It's not a big deal to run power overwhelming for a handlock, as there is the combo with Shadowflame so it's not really a dead card for them. They also have from hero power the possibilty to draw into lots of options, so running a couple combo cards is not as bad as it is in paladin.
In this thread i am presenting a few ideas, not a deck to copy pasta. I believe that with classic + naxx + GvG cardpool we can possibly brainstorm the new handlock / control warrior.
What the deck needs at the start is a finisher. How to get there we'll find out (warrior stalls with board control obtained by spells, weapons and trowing legendaries at you, while gaining a bunch of armor, basicly). It's not hard for a paladin to stall anyways, so we'll get there.
Combos used in the past as paladin finishers included Leeroy Jenkins + Blessing of Might + Blessed Champion OR Faceless Manipulator, however this finisher can no longer be utilized because of leeroy costing 5 mana.
Instead of 18 damage burst we can now only deal 12, which is inline with grommash + taskmaster so we're not in a bad spot. Both combos cost 10 mana (either faceless or blessed champion).
However, Arcane Golem with Blessing of Might and Faceless Manipulator gives us 14 damage with 3 cards, which is delicious considering how opponents now feel safe against a paladin (expected burst is 8 damage, double consecration and truesilver champion).
The common problem with combo wombos and paladin though is and always will be the card draw. Now let's pretend for a second that Blessing of Might can be useful over the course of a game as a quasi-Lightning Bolt (using it on a guy to deal extra 3 damage) and doesn't f*ck up the deck playing two copies.
Neutral card draw options (i'm NOT gonna include cantrips) are;
Class card draw are;
Our best option so far is Gadgetzan Auctioneer with spare parts (WTF) or an unreasonable amount of cantrips (Drakes, Hammer of Wrath, Gnomish, Loot Hoarders).
So while our finisher is pretty much been determined between arcane golem or leeroy, the addition of Alexstrasza could be useful to make sure our opponent is low enough (bar healing happening, but that's a thing warriors have to deal with aswell).
Now what i ask you is how the hell we're gonna make a control paladin with decent card draw, considering all the options.
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
The initial premise of this exercise is wrong - control decks specifically do NOT need a finisher - if the game goes long enough you will win anyways regardless due to the superior value of your cards, so there is no reason to dilute the deck with cards whose only purpose is to end the game early.
This isn't a control deck at all; it's something akin to Paladin Miracle with worse card draw so it has to stall longer.
I would gladly do without the miracle part tbh, but a control deck with a finisher needs some sort of card draw, even half decent.
It's a deck aimed at the ladder, where you can easily get a win bursting out 14 damage out of a paladin.
But honestly, i was just considering all the card draw / finisher options. I would like the deck to play out with a pressure similar to control warrior or midrange druid, where you feel threatened to lethal with a weapon out being at 15 hp.
Again, not really aiming to draw the deck and combo wombo. Just evaluating options.
Matchups where you feel like you NEED a finisher include spare parts mage and handlock. If jaraxxus comes out at the right time you can't burst 10+ damage and you automatically lose to infernals.
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
Yes, but look at how much Gromm helps warriors. Control warrior wouldn't be nearly as good without him, and just about any warrior will tell you don't even bother trying to make the deck unless you have him.
As to the OP, I too find that card draw is the main problem with control paladin. Acolyte works for warriors because they have ways to instantly proc it, but unless a pally runs wild pyro, then there is no such luxury, and of course the synergy between pryo and muster/hero power is horrid. Pally's best bet with acolyte is to play it after Aldor or Humilty and hope that your acolyte survives for a turn or doesn't get silenced so you can actually get some use out of him.
This thread is in the Paladin class discussion section, thus all the talk about Paladin. :-)
Feel free to add me if you play on NA! iMPose#1429
Whoops. Sorry if i confused some people with the title ^^
Imo any class can do with a finisher if the cards that are in the combo aren't terrible on their own. I mean playing one Faceless Manipulatoris no big deal, the card itself isn't bad, it just rotated out of the meta. But even if you faceless a Doomguard or a Piloted Sky Golem is not bad value, or an Ancient of War.
What i'm concerned about is having Arcane Golem and Blessing of Might, with such limited card draw having these two garbage cards in hand can and will screw us.
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
I played against a warlock who used Arcane Golem with double Power Overwhelming andFaceless Manipulator to deal 24 damage on turn 10 and win. The whole game he played spells and owls to take board control and silence both of my belchers. That's probably the only way I see Arcane Golem being good as a finisher.
you can atleast change the name of the thread once you realized you talk total nonsense?
Time is money, friend.
"Let's make the new control warrior" where control warrior is short for "Let's make an all around balanced control deck that can pressure you when under a certain life total". That would have been a bit too long. So the thread title is pertinent with the content, maybe not totally clear, but just because someone happened to click it from the home page and didn't read the first two lines before replying it's not my fault.
There's no need to be rude about it. If the thread does not intrest you, by all means, just ignore me / it. I will try to change it however to give you some peace of mind and to make it more self-explanatory for other people aswell.
That is a recent deck from Darkwonyx i think, but i believe handlocks have used charge minions with faceless also in the past as finishers. Something like leeroy + power overwhelming + faceless, which did 4 less damage but required 1 less card.
It's not a big deal to run power overwhelming for a handlock, as there is the combo with Shadowflame so it's not really a dead card for them. They also have from hero power the possibilty to draw into lots of options, so running a couple combo cards is not as bad as it is in paladin.
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
So far that's what i came up with;
Gonna do some testing next season and see how it goes. Seal of Light kind of combos with Wild Pyromancer, aswell as Acolyte of Pain. I like it much more then Holy Light that just heals passively.
Hammer of Wrath in there to snipe key minions behind taunts, also offers cycling. The rest is pretty much standard, except for Leeroy Jenkins + Faceless Manipulator.
The lack of midgame is definately scary though, looking for suggestions. Maybe Bolvar Fordragon.
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
Could Giants Paladin now be viable with Muster and Mountain Giant?