I'm not usually one to go onto the boards and complain, but what the hell has happened with Paladin? Why is it that either Pally is completely broken or complete garbage? Why is it that the only viable deck for Pally in standard is bloody Murlocs and Mechs (basically aggro)? And for the love of everything that's holy, can we just get a reliable bloody board clear for Pally? If I have to look into the neutral cards for board clears, you know there's a damn problem. I'm just frustrated and disappointed that one of my favorite classes can only ever seem to compete if it's a damn aggro deck. Sure, I can get my Control Pally fix in Wild, but it's about damn time Standard gets up to speed. Libram Pally looks great until you realize most games will go straight to fatigue, and you'll basically have to have planned to go there in the first place or get lucky in order to win. Or you can just play Murlocs and Mechs aggro! Lulz
Also, i've been trying to put together some control decks for Pally, but most are getting absolutely annihilated by Spell Mage, any Galakrond Priest, and these new, weird midrange-ish Demon Hunter decks. Can't seem to get board control without instantly getting my shit removed and then out-valued.
Paladin used to be the value class. DH out values them card for card. Pally can't control the board.
Paladin used to be able to clear the board. Warlock, Mage, Priest....hell, even druid all do it faster/better.
Pally used to make big tough things, Now druid poops them out on turn 4/5 and keeps doing it.
Pally is still my favorite class, and once i hit rank 5 you would find me playing every janky paladin variant i could thing of. Corpsetaker, pure pally, mech, murloc, cthun, menagerie......does not matter, I am there playing it. But now I have been playing all those variants in wild with Demon Hunter.....guess what. The DH core cards are better, faster and stronger. So paladin is in a tough place right now.
N'zoth Pally, Dragon Pally, Secret Pally, Buff Pally, Quest Pally: all happened in Standard, as well as Wild. Hell, even Mech Pally has some control variations in Wild.
Paladin is my fav class. And i'd like to point it out lol
Control archtype has become unplayable since equality nerf and raven rotation.
Paladin lacks of valuable cards as cardgenerators, late game and draws.
New librams are nice, but they can easily be out/tempo'ed by aggro (especially DH). And also be outvalue'd by control like Priest or generic lackey trash.
Let's hope to see something better in the next adventure :')
Pal has two cards now that drop enemies to 1ife and two tools to finish them off. Have you tried playing with those 8 cards and trying for quest and/or librams?
Control paladin has lacked a win condition for a long time. Otk paladin worked last year because it actually had a means to an end, but that was a combo deck more than a control one.
They are also the clunky class. Equality on 4 was a horrendous nerf. Like, a bigger more unnecessary nerf than almost any other in hearthstone (almost). I don't know if they felt as if it limited design space, but it went from good (paladins are allowed to have good cards as well) to unplayable. They just have too many high mana cost cards that don't have the same payoff the other classes.
Take warlock for example. Compare dark skies vs. consecrate. You have one card that synergizes with warlocks hero power, that deals on average more damage than consecrate, and is cheaper. Control decks also don't care about friendly fire that much.
Now let's compare equality-->board clear vs. plague of flames. You have a 6 mana minimum, two card combo that just clearls the opposing board. Clunky and developed no tempo for you. Now, warlock gets a 1 mana version of this that synergizes flawlessly with the invoke stuff they're already doing. Paladin just doesn't have the same power level of cards as the other classes, and probably needs a rework like priest
They also have no clear wincon. You cleared and cleared and cleared and eventually ran out of stuff. They need some big hero card with a value hero power or something to give them their means to an end.
And finally, they have absolutely ABYSMAL card draw. Actually, the absolute worst in hearthstone along with priest. And fun fact, control decks love drawing cards.
I've been having fun playing a Pure Pallly Secret deck. However, without the card draw I sometimes just run out of stream unless I draw that cad which generates 5 random pally cards.
I have been screwing around at Diamond 5 with control paladin. I tried Pure Libram, Dragon pure libram, Highlander Libram, Highlander control, control with Kaelthas and without.
I managed to climb to D2 with pure libram just after the nerfs, since I could farm DHs before everyone switched to lock. Now I am back to D3 with control Libram. The problem is as stated above. Card draw, and lack of value. I have in my deck these for draw: 1xBoW, 2xHoA, 1xLoH and for card generation: 2xVulpera Scoundrel, and 2x Fishing Rod, which the last one is so good. It saved me so many games, it gives tons of value and early board. But still, despite all the healing I can do (at least 40) and all the board clears, the deck lacks the value and draw Galalocks, Handlocks, Galapriests, Res priests, Highlander mages etc can generate. The only deck that I can stomp easily is druid. Spell or Big, They got no chance unless my draws suck balls.
I replacedt the bronze explorer with Vulpera Scoundrel last night, which seems to be super good. I can discover more Librams or an extra exuality.
I strongly believe Paladins need a revamp of their classic deck. Holy Light, some secrets, Guardian, are just bad cards that need refinement of HoF. Even consecration can't be compared to the board clears others have.
Do you recall why they nerfed equality? What was their reasoning? Was it included in a problematic deck?
It was due to the overdraw/holy wrath combo deck. Essentially the first combo deck they've ever given to Paladin, it never really got above tier 2, some would probably say it was tier 1 for a while, but IMO it wasn't that fun to play, kinda like playing a mecha'thun deck, draw draw clear draw draw clear... And people really really hated taking 25 or sometimes 50 instant dmg.
So yeah Equality died for that :(
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I'm not usually one to go onto the boards and complain, but what the hell has happened with Paladin? Why is it that either Pally is completely broken or complete garbage? Why is it that the only viable deck for Pally in standard is bloody Murlocs and Mechs (basically aggro)? And for the love of everything that's holy, can we just get a reliable bloody board clear for Pally? If I have to look into the neutral cards for board clears, you know there's a damn problem. I'm just frustrated and disappointed that one of my favorite classes can only ever seem to compete if it's a damn aggro deck. Sure, I can get my Control Pally fix in Wild, but it's about damn time Standard gets up to speed. Libram Pally looks great until you realize most games will go straight to fatigue, and you'll basically have to have planned to go there in the first place or get lucky in order to win. Or you can just play Murlocs and Mechs aggro! Lulz
Also, i've been trying to put together some control decks for Pally, but most are getting absolutely annihilated by Spell Mage, any Galakrond Priest, and these new, weird midrange-ish Demon Hunter decks. Can't seem to get board control without instantly getting my shit removed and then out-valued.
What is Blizzard's vision for this class?
I really enjoy pure libram Paladin. Most fun deck of the expansion so far.
Paladin used to be the value class. DH out values them card for card. Pally can't control the board.
Paladin used to be able to clear the board. Warlock, Mage, Priest....hell, even druid all do it faster/better.
Pally used to make big tough things, Now druid poops them out on turn 4/5 and keeps doing it.
Pally is still my favorite class, and once i hit rank 5 you would find me playing every janky paladin variant i could thing of. Corpsetaker, pure pally, mech, murloc, cthun, menagerie......does not matter, I am there playing it. But now I have been playing all those variants in wild with Demon Hunter.....guess what. The DH core cards are better, faster and stronger. So paladin is in a tough place right now.
Control Paladin hasn't been a thing forever.
N'zoth Pally, Dragon Pally, Secret Pally, Buff Pally, Quest Pally: all happened in Standard, as well as Wild. Hell, even Mech Pally has some control variations in Wild.
Control Paladin wasn't a thing since Old Gods meta.
Wasn't that bad in classic and nax, I was playing it exclusively back then, control pally vs control warrior was the most
funFAIR for both side.Paladin is my fav class. And i'd like to point it out lol
Control archtype has become unplayable since equality nerf and raven rotation.
Paladin lacks of valuable cards as cardgenerators, late game and draws.
New librams are nice, but they can easily be out/tempo'ed by aggro (especially DH). And also be outvalue'd by control like Priest or generic lackey trash.
Let's hope to see something better in the next adventure :')
Libram Paly is underwhelming, since card draw is not existant in the class (except the very weak tempo play Lay on Hands)
Mech Paly rotated out, so there is not even a Tier 1 deck available for you, most likely all ya Paly mains now stucked with Murlocs LMAO.
Pal has two cards now that drop enemies to 1ife and two tools to finish them off. Have you tried playing with those 8 cards and trying for quest and/or librams?
Control paladin has lacked a win condition for a long time. Otk paladin worked last year because it actually had a means to an end, but that was a combo deck more than a control one.
They are also the clunky class. Equality on 4 was a horrendous nerf. Like, a bigger more unnecessary nerf than almost any other in hearthstone (almost). I don't know if they felt as if it limited design space, but it went from good (paladins are allowed to have good cards as well) to unplayable. They just have too many high mana cost cards that don't have the same payoff the other classes.
Take warlock for example. Compare dark skies vs. consecrate. You have one card that synergizes with warlocks hero power, that deals on average more damage than consecrate, and is cheaper. Control decks also don't care about friendly fire that much.
Now let's compare equality-->board clear vs. plague of flames. You have a 6 mana minimum, two card combo that just clearls the opposing board. Clunky and developed no tempo for you. Now, warlock gets a 1 mana version of this that synergizes flawlessly with the invoke stuff they're already doing. Paladin just doesn't have the same power level of cards as the other classes, and probably needs a rework like priest
They also have no clear wincon. You cleared and cleared and cleared and eventually ran out of stuff. They need some big hero card with a value hero power or something to give them their means to an end.
And finally, they have absolutely ABYSMAL card draw. Actually, the absolute worst in hearthstone along with priest. And fun fact, control decks love drawing cards.
Why must paladin have a control deck?
N'zoth Pally, Dragon Pally, Secret Pally, Buff Pally, Quest Pally None of these were control decks, they were all midrange decks
I've been having fun playing a Pure Pallly Secret deck. However, without the card draw I sometimes just run out of stream unless I draw that cad which generates 5 random pally cards.
Quest pala had combo version with control/stalling tools.
Same goes for Shirvallah/Holy wrath pala.
Equality nerf happend :(
That is what.
During Kobolds and Catacombs I climbed to legend with my Nzoth paladin deck,which wasn't even a meta deck. That's 2 years.
FOR THE HORDE!
I have been screwing around at Diamond 5 with control paladin. I tried Pure Libram, Dragon pure libram, Highlander Libram, Highlander control, control with Kaelthas and without.
I managed to climb to D2 with pure libram just after the nerfs, since I could farm DHs before everyone switched to lock. Now I am back to D3 with control Libram. The problem is as stated above. Card draw, and lack of value. I have in my deck these for draw: 1xBoW, 2xHoA, 1xLoH and for card generation: 2xVulpera Scoundrel, and 2x Fishing Rod, which the last one is so good. It saved me so many games, it gives tons of value and early board. But still, despite all the healing I can do (at least 40) and all the board clears, the deck lacks the value and draw Galalocks, Handlocks, Galapriests, Res priests, Highlander mages etc can generate. The only deck that I can stomp easily is druid. Spell or Big, They got no chance unless my draws suck balls.
I replacedt the bronze explorer with Vulpera Scoundrel last night, which seems to be super good. I can discover more Librams or an extra exuality.
I strongly believe Paladins need a revamp of their classic deck. Holy Light, some secrets, Guardian, are just bad cards that need refinement of HoF. Even consecration can't be compared to the board clears others have.
FOR THE HORDE!
Do you recall why they nerfed equality? What was their reasoning? Was it included in a problematic deck?
It was due to the overdraw/holy wrath combo deck. Essentially the first combo deck they've ever given to Paladin, it never really got above tier 2, some would probably say it was tier 1 for a while, but IMO it wasn't that fun to play, kinda like playing a mecha'thun deck, draw draw clear draw draw clear... And people really really hated taking 25 or sometimes 50 instant dmg.
So yeah Equality died for that :(