I had high hopes for paladin this expansion. Vicious Syndicate even rated our Ashes cards as the No. 1 set. And maybe someone who's better at deck construction than I am will figure out how to make our class go. But the problem, as I see it, is this ...
They've essentially forced Pure Paladin on us but not given us the tools necessary to make it competitive. If we can't use ANY of the neutral cards then the class cards need to be really strong. And that's not the case right now.
The problem with paladin is that it got good cards, but that's it, most of the other classes (except Shaman and maybe Warrior) are in a good spot cause some of their cards do insane things. Mage has amazing highlander support, Rogue has all the galakrond + tog bullshit and it still got decent cards this expansion, Druid is back to ramping and beating the opponent with big chunky minions that wouldn't see play if not cause of the fact that you can play them a lot earlier, Hunter still has dragons and the deathrattle support it got is pretty interesting, Warlock had decent cards, received good support and is also riding the DH trend, Priest just keeps using the disgusting resurrect cards it has been using forever and Demon Hunter is just overall strong even after the nerfs. Warrior is not as terrible as Shaman but it lost too many key cards and it'll need at least another expansion to recover and Shaman is for sure on a shit hole without many hopes.
The problem with Paladin is that the class got good cards but nothing more. The dormant murloc is good but not broken, the libram cards are good and solid but don't do anything too powerful and as you said both pure paladin archetype cards are solid but there aren't enough trully great paladin cards to support something like this (Also while the 7 drop refills your hand, it doesn't mean you'll get even a single good card). While other classes have that good broken shit, Paladin just has fair cards atm. The one thing I can say, is that I'm glad Paladin got solid legendaries this expansion, not some incredibly specific garbage like they got last expansion, AoO Paladin legendaries are simply good and can be used on pretty much any Paladin build moving forward.
The problem with paladin is that it got good cards, but that's it, most of the other classes (except Shaman and maybe Warrior) are in a good spot cause some of their cards do insane things. Mage has amazing highlander support, Rogue has all the galakrond + tog bullshit and it still got decent cards this expansion, Druid is back to ramping and beating the opponent with big chunky minions that wouldn't see play if not cause of the fact that you can play them a lot earlier, Hunter still has dragons and the deathrattle support it got is pretty interesting, Warlock had decent cards, received good support and is also riding the DH trend, Priest just keeps using the disgusting resurrect cards it has been using forever and Demon Hunter is just overall strong even after the nerfs. Warrior is not as terrible as Shaman but it lost too many key cards and it'll need at least another expansion to recover and Shaman is for sure on a shit hole without many hopes.
The problem with Paladin is that the class got good cards but nothing more. The dormant murloc is good but not broken, the libram cards are good and solid but don't do anything too powerful and as you said both pure paladin archetype cards are solid but there aren't enough trully great paladin cards to support something like this (Also while the 7 drop refills your hand, it doesn't mean you'll get even a single good card). While other classes have that good broken shit, Paladin just has fair cards atm. The one thing I can say, is that I'm glad Paladin got solid legendaries this expansion, not some incredibly specific garbage like they got last expansion, AoO Paladin legendaries are simply good and can be used on pretty much any Paladin build moving forward.
You nailed it on the head, Paladin has always had good and fair cards, nothing extremely broken. I love Paladin as a class but I get frustrated that we are always the "balanced" class and it can be very hard to ladder at times. I have always tried to make Dragon Paladin work for the past many years, never competitive enough even with all the new dragon support from DoD. Pure Paladin is fun especially with Librams but guess what shuts down the deck, anyone running Albatrosses (quite a bit from what I faced thus far) I am going back to Highlander Paladin and see if I can push a bit more again. I think this expansion gave us a good foundation but we still need more support!
I'm quite pissed we get to be in the dumpster again. I've been trying a lot of different lists, but it all just seems too weak to compete with the broken shit all the other classes have.
The only way we can cheat something now is with kael'thas, but there is nothing really good to cheat out. While other classes have Galakrond, OTK combo's, Conjurer's calling, insane ramp, ...
I'll keep on trying to make paladin work. But if it turns out it's just too shitty to compete, i'm out.
Yeah but the problem is the specificity of the Paladin cards and that they have been built for specific archetypes and don't have versatility to create different decks. Basically the Libram cards will always be run together and has been pigeon holed into being run and played a specific way - Lady Liadrin speaks to this too.
The big problem is the somehow simultaneous lack of focus, diversity and synergy. Between half committing to Secrets (Commander Rhyssa) Mech, Dragon, Pure, Highlander, Murloc, Big (Duel!) and others. It's put Paladin in a perpetual mish-mash of things that sometimes come together but often doesn't (at least in standard)
I've been playing a pally deck in wild focused on multiplying Libram of Wisdom and playing them over and over. I've had Lynessa Sunsorrow's animation last for two whole minutes.
Paladin is and for the most part always the "fair" class. Paladins doesn't generate a million cards from various sources as many other classes do. As always when a new expansion hits I go back to my favorite class of all time and try out everything I can think of for a few weeks before again calling it and leave the class until next round of new cards. Sad really. I miss a strong midrange deck, atm nothing seems really good just half decent and relying more on opponent not doing to much broken stuff overall.
This class lacks everything. Value minions? Nope. Removals? Nope. Board buffs? Nope. Card draw? Nope. Every single class does every single thing better than paladin. Basic and classic sets are useless. Aggro decks are pure coinflips with no way of finishing opponent with direct damage in later turns. Control decks don't have any way to survive against aggro decks, or win cons against other controls. Combo/OTK never existed except for anyfin or garbage exodias. Midrange decks lacks value and late game potential. This is not something that is possible to fix with one or two expansions, paladin will either get full class rework of classic and basic set or will stay garbage forever.
If you don't have galakrond or highlander support, you better have extremely powerful cards (like dragon hunter, res priest, demon hunter and big druid), otherwise you can't quite compete.
The lack of card draw is really killing Paladin. I've played so many games of Pure Paladin recently where I am so frustrated by being unable to draw my Librams or the cards that discount Librams, etc.
And then I watch the other classes - esp DH or Rogue - draw so much so easily.
This class lacks everything. Value minions? Nope. Removals? Nope. Board buffs? Nope. Card draw? Nope. Every single class does every single thing better than paladin. Basic and classic sets are useless. Aggro decks are pure coinflips with no way of finishing opponent with direct damage in later turns. Control decks don't have any way to survive against aggro decks, or win cons against other controls. Combo/OTK never existed except for anyfin or garbage exodias. Midrange decks lacks value and late game potential. This is not something that is possible to fix with one or two expansions, paladin will either get full class rework of classic and basic set or will stay garbage forever.
You hit it. I thought this after the Priest rework. It has to happen, there's too many things that don't make sense in the classic and basic with Paladin. Never got a replacement for Divine Favor either
This game is all about giant swing turns now. That's generally the only thing that wins. Pala doesn't have a giant swing turn except Alex, and everyone can have Alex.
The "problem" with Paladin is that it received control cards, and DH was uncontrollable. Control always takes a bit longer, especially when it's a brand new set, to figure out exactly what it needs to be controlling and how best to do it.
I suspect it will be fine when the dust settles.
I agree with the user above, though, that they might want to look into reworking the paladin basic/classic set. It's a bit all over the place in a bad way.
I've had some success running Murloc Paladin in standard, with a few dragons tucked in there with Scalelord and Bronze Explorer, but it's definitely not amazing. Like several others have said, Paladins have good cards, but that doesn't matter much at a time when *good* isn't enough to keep up.
No, Paladin's problem is not with anti-aggro. With the new weapon, plus healing and taunts, plus Wild Pyro (which synergizes pretty well with discounted Libram of Justice for anti-aggro purposes), anti-aggro is doable. But once you get to the late game, there isn't much.
Card generation is okay but not great. Bronze Explorer is not bad while being relevant late game. Underlight Angling Rod is decent mid game for some tokens. Discounted Librams are about the only thing that is truly unfair about the class right now.
The class is pretty fair. Someone mentioned Tip the Scales and Even Paladin - shocker, but Even Paladin actually was "fair." Apart from the hero power at 1 which every other class had access to, they didn't do anything broken. Tip the Scales is broken, sure, but apart from a very short while that card wasnt even used in a meta deck, so I'm not sure what you're complaining about.
I don't think Paladin can generate cards that can totally flip games like Rogue or Mage can. There's no infinite value in the class. I would love for something like Galakrond (Rogue or Priest's) in Paladin. Come late game, the class suffers a lot.
It's also not like you can completely ignore the mid and early game and try to get to late game either and try to greed, because the removal options are bad compared to classes which can do that.
Seems people forget the history of dirty OP paladin decks--secret pally, murlock pally, aggro pally . . .
I'm having decent success with libram pally at platinum rank, going wide works against DH, but the animations have screwed up a few of my turns.
Secret Pally was like 3 years ago. And the last time there was an actual good Murloc Paladin deck was like 2 years ago during Frozen Throne meta (which I refused to play because of Murlocs), which afterwards got nerfed (Warleader no longer goves health buffs), and Tarim was the actual mvp and this expansion is like the first time they've actually given us a good legendary after that.
I'll give you Mech aggro, but that deck was boring as fuck and it wasn't really played that much despite being a strong deck.
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I had high hopes for paladin this expansion. Vicious Syndicate even rated our Ashes cards as the No. 1 set. And maybe someone who's better at deck construction than I am will figure out how to make our class go. But the problem, as I see it, is this ...
They've essentially forced Pure Paladin on us but not given us the tools necessary to make it competitive. If we can't use ANY of the neutral cards then the class cards need to be really strong. And that's not the case right now.
The problem with paladin is that it got good cards, but that's it, most of the other classes (except Shaman and maybe Warrior) are in a good spot cause some of their cards do insane things. Mage has amazing highlander support, Rogue has all the galakrond + tog bullshit and it still got decent cards this expansion, Druid is back to ramping and beating the opponent with big chunky minions that wouldn't see play if not cause of the fact that you can play them a lot earlier, Hunter still has dragons and the deathrattle support it got is pretty interesting, Warlock had decent cards, received good support and is also riding the DH trend, Priest just keeps using the disgusting resurrect cards it has been using forever and Demon Hunter is just overall strong even after the nerfs. Warrior is not as terrible as Shaman but it lost too many key cards and it'll need at least another expansion to recover and Shaman is for sure on a shit hole without many hopes.
The problem with Paladin is that the class got good cards but nothing more. The dormant murloc is good but not broken, the libram cards are good and solid but don't do anything too powerful and as you said both pure paladin archetype cards are solid but there aren't enough trully great paladin cards to support something like this (Also while the 7 drop refills your hand, it doesn't mean you'll get even a single good card). While other classes have that good broken shit, Paladin just has fair cards atm. The one thing I can say, is that I'm glad Paladin got solid legendaries this expansion, not some incredibly specific garbage like they got last expansion, AoO Paladin legendaries are simply good and can be used on pretty much any Paladin build moving forward.
You nailed it on the head, Paladin has always had good and fair cards, nothing extremely broken. I love Paladin as a class but I get frustrated that we are always the "balanced" class and it can be very hard to ladder at times. I have always tried to make Dragon Paladin work for the past many years, never competitive enough even with all the new dragon support from DoD. Pure Paladin is fun especially with Librams but guess what shuts down the deck, anyone running Albatrosses (quite a bit from what I faced thus far) I am going back to Highlander Paladin and see if I can push a bit more again. I think this expansion gave us a good foundation but we still need more support!
I'm quite pissed we get to be in the dumpster again. I've been trying a lot of different lists, but it all just seems too weak to compete with the broken shit all the other classes have.
The only way we can cheat something now is with kael'thas, but there is nothing really good to cheat out. While other classes have Galakrond, OTK combo's, Conjurer's calling, insane ramp, ...
I'll keep on trying to make paladin work. But if it turns out it's just too shitty to compete, i'm out.
paladin doesn't have broken turns as the other classes do, thats the problem
Justice demands retribution.
Yeah but the problem is the specificity of the Paladin cards and that they have been built for specific archetypes and don't have versatility to create different decks. Basically the Libram cards will always be run together and has been pigeon holed into being run and played a specific way - Lady Liadrin speaks to this too.
The big problem is the somehow simultaneous lack of focus, diversity and synergy. Between half committing to Secrets (Commander Rhyssa) Mech, Dragon, Pure, Highlander, Murloc, Big (Duel!) and others. It's put Paladin in a perpetual mish-mash of things that sometimes come together but often doesn't (at least in standard)
I've been playing a pally deck in wild focused on multiplying Libram of Wisdom and playing them over and over. I've had Lynessa Sunsorrow's animation last for two whole minutes.
Don't let your memes be dreams.
Paladin is and for the most part always the "fair" class. Paladins doesn't generate a million cards from various sources as many other classes do. As always when a new expansion hits I go back to my favorite class of all time and try out everything I can think of for a few weeks before again calling it and leave the class until next round of new cards. Sad really. I miss a strong midrange deck, atm nothing seems really good just half decent and relying more on opponent not doing to much broken stuff overall.
This class lacks everything. Value minions? Nope. Removals? Nope. Board buffs? Nope. Card draw? Nope. Every single class does every single thing better than paladin. Basic and classic sets are useless. Aggro decks are pure coinflips with no way of finishing opponent with direct damage in later turns. Control decks don't have any way to survive against aggro decks, or win cons against other controls. Combo/OTK never existed except for anyfin or garbage exodias. Midrange decks lacks value and late game potential. This is not something that is possible to fix with one or two expansions, paladin will either get full class rework of classic and basic set or will stay garbage forever.
Be broken or be forgotten.
If you don't have galakrond or highlander support, you better have extremely powerful cards (like dragon hunter, res priest, demon hunter and big druid), otherwise you can't quite compete.
Fair class? Lol. Tip the skill was so fair. Even Pally was so balance.
The lack of card draw is really killing Paladin. I've played so many games of Pure Paladin recently where I am so frustrated by being unable to draw my Librams or the cards that discount Librams, etc.
And then I watch the other classes - esp DH or Rogue - draw so much so easily.
This class lacks everything. Value minions? Nope. Removals? Nope. Board buffs? Nope. Card draw? Nope. Every single class does every single thing better than paladin. Basic and classic sets are useless. Aggro decks are pure coinflips with no way of finishing opponent with direct damage in later turns. Control decks don't have any way to survive against aggro decks, or win cons against other controls. Combo/OTK never existed except for anyfin or garbage exodias. Midrange decks lacks value and late game potential. This is not something that is possible to fix with one or two expansions, paladin will either get full class rework of classic and basic set or will stay garbage forever.
You hit it. I thought this after the Priest rework. It has to happen, there's too many things that don't make sense in the classic and basic with Paladin. Never got a replacement for Divine Favor either
This game is all about giant swing turns now. That's generally the only thing that wins. Pala doesn't have a giant swing turn except Alex, and everyone can have Alex.
The "problem" with Paladin is that it received control cards, and DH was uncontrollable. Control always takes a bit longer, especially when it's a brand new set, to figure out exactly what it needs to be controlling and how best to do it.
I suspect it will be fine when the dust settles.
I agree with the user above, though, that they might want to look into reworking the paladin basic/classic set. It's a bit all over the place in a bad way.
I've had some success running Murloc Paladin in standard, with a few dragons tucked in there with Scalelord and Bronze Explorer, but it's definitely not amazing. Like several others have said, Paladins have good cards, but that doesn't matter much at a time when *good* isn't enough to keep up.
No, Paladin's problem is not with anti-aggro. With the new weapon, plus healing and taunts, plus Wild Pyro (which synergizes pretty well with discounted Libram of Justice for anti-aggro purposes), anti-aggro is doable. But once you get to the late game, there isn't much.
Card generation is okay but not great. Bronze Explorer is not bad while being relevant late game. Underlight Angling Rod is decent mid game for some tokens. Discounted Librams are about the only thing that is truly unfair about the class right now.
The class is pretty fair. Someone mentioned Tip the Scales and Even Paladin - shocker, but Even Paladin actually was "fair." Apart from the hero power at 1 which every other class had access to, they didn't do anything broken. Tip the Scales is broken, sure, but apart from a very short while that card wasnt even used in a meta deck, so I'm not sure what you're complaining about.
I don't think Paladin can generate cards that can totally flip games like Rogue or Mage can. There's no infinite value in the class. I would love for something like Galakrond (Rogue or Priest's) in Paladin. Come late game, the class suffers a lot.
It's also not like you can completely ignore the mid and early game and try to get to late game either and try to greed, because the removal options are bad compared to classes which can do that.
Seems people forget the history of dirty OP paladin decks--secret pally, murlock pally, aggro pally . . .
I'm having decent success with libram pally at platinum rank, going wide works against DH, but the animations have screwed up a few of my turns.
Secret Pally was like 3 years ago. And the last time there was an actual good Murloc Paladin deck was like 2 years ago during Frozen Throne meta (which I refused to play because of Murlocs), which afterwards got nerfed (Warleader no longer goves health buffs), and Tarim was the actual mvp and this expansion is like the first time they've actually given us a good legendary after that.
I'll give you Mech aggro, but that deck was boring as fuck and it wasn't really played that much despite being a strong deck.