Its funny... No paladin player complained about secrets OR (ironically) a lack of identify when "WHO AM I?! NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!" was top tier for like 6 months.
Do you see paladin players here buddy? I'm not one. The rest?
You're completely missing the point. We are not talking about if it's strong, good or anything. We're talking about secrets not being related at all with what a Paladin should be (based on lore and common sense)-
I didn't miss your point at all.. mysterious challenger was secret paladin overdose and it fit like a glove without complaints and that's a historical top deck in HS which was never brought into question so this is basically a salt thread over feeling paladin isnt top tier viable at the moment. I also understand that that you feel it doesn't fit thematically, but what's to say that the good guys reveal everything just because they're good? You cant have a 'secret' weapon to protect the good guys from evil? That seems a bit ludicrous. Even the holiest of holiest can have tricks up their sleeve as all is far in love and war, No?
I didn't miss your point at all.. mysterious challenger was secret paladin overdose and it fit like a glove without complaints and that's a historical top deck in HS which was never brought into question so this is basically a salt thread over feeling paladin isnt top tier viable at the moment. I also understand that that you feel it doesn't fit thematically, but what's to say that the good guys reveal everything just because they're good? You cant have a 'secret' weapon to protect the good guys from evil? That seems a bit ludicrous. Even the holiest of holiest can have tricks up their sleeve as all is far in love and war, No?
Dude, the only salt is being brought by you. Relax and take it easy, we aren't attacking you by any means. We're just debating. Also, paladin is top tier right now, with mech paladin. I'm actually using this deck depending if I see many hunters, since it's a good matchup for that deck. But I feel like it lacks of flavor. Just play mechs. Nothing more. Where is the "holy warrior" in that?
It's a valid point what you got with the secrets, but I personally don't think it justifies secrets. Since like every "good" class can have the same argument. I'd find more suitable that they have a keyword when a enemy minion attacks a friendly minion, like "Endure", with buffs and things like that. Like a war prayer. I mean, they could be A LOT more creative with Paladin, but it's like they don't pay too much attention on it.
Its funny... No paladin player complained about secrets OR (ironically) a lack of identify when "WHO AM I?! NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!" was top tier for like 6 months.
Yeah, actually I complained. I actually refused to play that deck and played normal Midrange Pally instead.
There you go.
And even if people in here all played Secret Paladin, are they wrong that Secrets still shouldn't be part of the Paladin identity?
If you're going to pull that particular reasoning (about how good guys don't have to reveal every card up their sleeve) for having Secrets in Paladin, why can't Druid have them? Are you telling me that it wouldn't be far-fetched for Druids to know some secret plant related shit that no one else knows due to their deep relationship with Nature?
When people think of a holy warrior adorn with heavy plate-mail do they think of trickery and secrets? Do they actually have anything like it in the lore?
I didn't miss your point at all.. mysterious challenger was secret paladin overdose and it fit like a glove without complaints and that's a historical top deck in HS which was never brought into question so this is basically a salt thread over feeling paladin isnt top tier viable at the moment. I also understand that that you feel it doesn't fit thematically, but what's to say that the good guys reveal everything just because they're good? You cant have a 'secret' weapon to protect the good guys from evil? That seems a bit ludicrous. Even the holiest of holiest can have tricks up their sleeve as all is far in love and war, No?
Secrets in Paladin were always a debatable topic. Nobody really talked about that though because in the era of Mysterious Challenger nobody really expected from Blizzard to rework any class or add a new one so now when they decided to rework Priest we can naturally speculate if they will rework any other class in the future and Paladin currently is a class that arguably needs work the most since it lacks any clear direction and is all over the place at the moment.
funny cause i remember when rogues had no secrets and pally always had secrets in classic. not that im disagreeing with you all. funny how blizz added secrets to rogue not too long ago.
funny cause i remember when rogues had no secrets and pally always had secrets in classic. not that im disagreeing with you all. funny how blizz added secrets to rogue not too long ago.
It's funny because if you think from a lore perspective, Rogue should had secrets from moment 0. Rogues have stealth and are specialists in ambushes. It fully makes sense.
Its funny... No paladin player complained about secrets OR (ironically) a lack of identify when "WHO AM I?! NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!" was top tier for like 6 months.
Context is also different. We're seeing a major priest redesign, with them losing face damage, which has been a pretty big part of priest for a long while. We've never seen anything this major in terms of basic/classic set restructuring. When Mysterious Challenger ruled, cleaning out a large chunk of the basic/classic Paladin probably never crossed anyone's mind.
In the light of how Bliz seems a lot more willing to change those aspects of the classes, if we're looking at other classes which are unfocused and without clear identity, Paladin seems like the next one up. It's a little scattered, with lots of tribal mechanics (Paladin being a big tent with buffs to lots of different tribes seems like a reasonable theme), but notably the secrets. We've had them forever, they've almost always been bad unless there's a tonne of cheating them out, and they seem a bit out of character.
Since Priest had a lot of their class identity on the chopping block, folks are just looking for anything else which could also get the axe. Paladin secrets also fit the bill.
They're supposed to half-cleric, half-warrior...buffs, healing, tanking....Lay On Hands is supposed to be "the paladin ability" but it's unplayable garbage and has been for years.
Mech aggro is so far from what they are supposed to do....paladin is lost right now.
Well, now with Libram Paladin on the edge, we can say FINALLY Blizzard is getting the shit done with Paladin. OK, it's a new archetype, but one according it's class identity, and a pretty good one. Actually I'm pretty excited to try this one.
Maybe we'll see in the future a rework of Paladin like they did with priest, who knows!
I'm pretty happy with what's been done for priest. I don't play that class pretty much, but it needed a rework since his class identity was confusing. I think the next class that needs a HUGE rework is Paladin. Paladin, right now, doesn't have ANY sense. It's like a bunch of pieces from other classes. Murlocs from shamans, healing from priest, set 1 health from hunter, secrets. WHY.
My biggest issue is with the secrets. Not with the power level of them, no, with the concept of A PALADIN having SECRETS. It just meaningless. Let me put it this way:
Hunters uses traps = OK with secrets
Mages use enchantments and spell shenanigans = OK with secrets
Rogues are sneaky bastards = OK with secrets
Paladin = ??????
What do you guys think?
Paladins are full of shit, which makes them much more interesting than the silly facade they constantly try to show everyone. Secrets fit the class perfectly.
Paladins represent order, structure. A system of norms and values like a religion creates order out of the chaos in the form of a story which is presented as the only truth. Questioning the dogma's of a religion destabilizes the structure. To keep order therefore, secrets must also be kept. Anything that would cast doubt on the truth of the dogma's is swept under the rug.
Do you see paladin players here buddy? I'm not one. The rest?
You're completely missing the point. We are not talking about if it's strong, good or anything. We're talking about secrets not being related at all with what a Paladin should be (based on lore and common sense)-
I didn't miss your point at all.. mysterious challenger was secret paladin overdose and it fit like a glove without complaints and that's a historical top deck in HS which was never brought into question so this is basically a salt thread over feeling paladin isnt top tier viable at the moment. I also understand that that you feel it doesn't fit thematically, but what's to say that the good guys reveal everything just because they're good? You cant have a 'secret' weapon to protect the good guys from evil? That seems a bit ludicrous. Even the holiest of holiest can have tricks up their sleeve as all is far in love and war, No?
Dude, the only salt is being brought by you. Relax and take it easy, we aren't attacking you by any means. We're just debating. Also, paladin is top tier right now, with mech paladin. I'm actually using this deck depending if I see many hunters, since it's a good matchup for that deck. But I feel like it lacks of flavor. Just play mechs. Nothing more. Where is the "holy warrior" in that?
It's a valid point what you got with the secrets, but I personally don't think it justifies secrets. Since like every "good" class can have the same argument. I'd find more suitable that they have a keyword when a enemy minion attacks a friendly minion, like "Endure", with buffs and things like that. Like a war prayer. I mean, they could be A LOT more creative with Paladin, but it's like they don't pay too much attention on it.
Yeah, actually I complained. I actually refused to play that deck and played normal Midrange Pally instead.
There you go.
And even if people in here all played Secret Paladin, are they wrong that Secrets still shouldn't be part of the Paladin identity?
If you're going to pull that particular reasoning (about how good guys don't have to reveal every card up their sleeve) for having Secrets in Paladin, why can't Druid have them? Are you telling me that it wouldn't be far-fetched for Druids to know some secret plant related shit that no one else knows due to their deep relationship with Nature?
When people think of a holy warrior adorn with heavy plate-mail do they think of trickery and secrets? Do they actually have anything like it in the lore?
Secrets in Paladin were always a debatable topic. Nobody really talked about that though because in the era of Mysterious Challenger nobody really expected from Blizzard to rework any class or add a new one so now when they decided to rework Priest we can naturally speculate if they will rework any other class in the future and Paladin currently is a class that arguably needs work the most since it lacks any clear direction and is all over the place at the moment.
funny cause i remember when rogues had no secrets and pally always had secrets in classic. not that im disagreeing with you all. funny how blizz added secrets to rogue not too long ago.
It's funny because if you think from a lore perspective, Rogue should had secrets from moment 0. Rogues have stealth and are specialists in ambushes. It fully makes sense.
Context is also different. We're seeing a major priest redesign, with them losing face damage, which has been a pretty big part of priest for a long while. We've never seen anything this major in terms of basic/classic set restructuring. When Mysterious Challenger ruled, cleaning out a large chunk of the basic/classic Paladin probably never crossed anyone's mind.
In the light of how Bliz seems a lot more willing to change those aspects of the classes, if we're looking at other classes which are unfocused and without clear identity, Paladin seems like the next one up. It's a little scattered, with lots of tribal mechanics (Paladin being a big tent with buffs to lots of different tribes seems like a reasonable theme), but notably the secrets. We've had them forever, they've almost always been bad unless there's a tonne of cheating them out, and they seem a bit out of character.
Since Priest had a lot of their class identity on the chopping block, folks are just looking for anything else which could also get the axe. Paladin secrets also fit the bill.
They're supposed to half-cleric, half-warrior...buffs, healing, tanking....Lay On Hands is supposed to be "the paladin ability" but it's unplayable garbage and has been for years.
Mech aggro is so far from what they are supposed to do....paladin is lost right now.
Odd-Paladin?
Well, now with Libram Paladin on the edge, we can say FINALLY Blizzard is getting the shit done with Paladin. OK, it's a new archetype, but one according it's class identity, and a pretty good one. Actually I'm pretty excited to try this one.
Maybe we'll see in the future a rework of Paladin like they did with priest, who knows!
Finally something more "Paladin'esque" than Murlocs or Mechs lol
Get out of here with your tier 5 paladin deck ideas
Keymaster Alabaster come faster
New cards look amazing... but Paladin still needs a decent early game.
No good one drop (yet), unless it has yet to be revealed...
Other than that these cards revealed today could make Pure Paladin the real deal.
It has neutral minion early game
Keymaster Alabaster come faster
Yes.
But if we had a good Paladin one drop, Pure Paladin could really take off.
Paladins are full of shit, which makes them much more interesting than the silly facade they constantly try to show everyone. Secrets fit the class perfectly.
Paladins represent order, structure. A system of norms and values like a religion creates order out of the chaos in the form of a story which is presented as the only truth. Questioning the dogma's of a religion destabilizes the structure. To keep order therefore, secrets must also be kept. Anything that would cast doubt on the truth of the dogma's is swept under the rug.
Yet another new wacky archetype (librams) for this class. Is pally going to get a unique archetype now every goddam expansion?
and I have played a lot of pally and enjoy it btw