I'm pretty happy with what's been done for priest. I don't play that class pretty much, but it needed a rework since his class identity was confusing. I think the next class that needs a HUGE rework is Paladin. Paladin, right now, doesn't have ANY sense. It's like a bunch of pieces from other classes. Murlocs from shamans, healing from priest, set 1 health from hunter, secrets. WHY.
My biggest issue is with the secrets. Not with the power level of them, no, with the concept of A PALADIN having SECRETS. It just meaningless. Let me put it this way:
Hunters uses traps = OK with secrets
Mages use enchantments and spell shenanigans = OK with secrets
Ye paladin sucks balls.. Nobody knows what he should do better than others. Whats his keyword?
I mean, initially it was divine shield, huge buffs and huge heals for enduring in the game. I was okay with that. But over all the expansions they started to give Pali a lot of mechanics and things from other classes and it became pointless as a class itself.
It's hilarious to me that now Paladin has no class identity. A few years ago, Priest had nothing. Paladin healed better, Warlock had better combos, Rogue stole better, Mage had better spells and Paladin also had better buffs.
Paladins are supposed to be holy knights who smite down evil. To do so, they bring "Equality" to all and "Consecrate" wrong-doers. They create an even playing field and fight fair.
Paladins are also all about buffing allies and helping each other out, which is why Blessing of Kings, Might and Wisdom exist. They have a small sub theme of Holy Weapons and Blessed Allies which is where Truesilver Champion, Ashbringer and Paladin Murlocs come into play. Classes adopt additional themes over time, and Paladin just so happened to get Holy Murlocs.
Mechanically, though the reason Paladin has secrets is because there's no clean way to have an effect trigger on your opponent's turn. While Avenge doesn't make sense as a secret, it is thematically sound since your minion(s) have witnessed an ally fall and work to avenge their ally. They each make sense when explained, but it's difficult to surmise when they share the "Secret" keyword.
Paladin has a mid-tier basic and classic set. The problem is that blizzard keeps throwing multiple new archetypes at the class every expansion and hoping something sticks. RoS they threw dragon pally (Let's give paladin a 10 mana card that heals their opponent to full health!), Big Pally, and secret pally at the wall. The dragons sucked, big pally was too slow in a control meta, and there weren't enough secrets to support that archetype.
SoU threw quest reborn pally, murloc pally, and swarm pally, highland pally, Murloc stuck due to Prismatic Lens which is rotating next month, but it stopped once doom in the tomb was released since it wasn't aggro enough. Quest Pally was good for a month or two, then Doom and the tomb came out and the archetype wasn't able to handle evolve shaman and N'zoth every turn rogue which were overrunning the meta(Eggs rotate in a few weeks, so this will have zero support then. Meta is currently too aggro for this quest). Swarm was only seen in tournaments.Paladin didn't have enough highland support to play a highland deck.
DoD tried dragon again, pure pally, more swarm, and mech pally. The dragons are still not where they need to be. Pure is currently played but not a top tier deck. Swarm got overtaken by mech pally. Mech is the big deck right now, but the majority of the deck is rotating here soon.
Blizz needs to figure out what they want to do with pally for the next 1-2 years and stick with it, not create something new every 4 months.
I feel like paladin and shaman both really struggle with class identity. Other classes have specific things they're good at which shape the kinds of decks they can play. Rogue can do combo and tempo decks but never control. Priest can do combo and control but never straight aggro. Paladin and Shaman just do whatever. They've both had combo, midrange, aggro, control, token decks, you get the point. Blizzard doesn't know what to do with them so they just give them random tools and if they're good enough there's a deck.
It's hilarious to me that now Paladin has no class identity. A few years ago, Priest had nothing. Paladin healed better, Warlock had better combos, Rogue stole better, Mage had better spells and Paladin also had better buffs.
Paladins are supposed to be holy knights who smite down evil. To do so, they bring "Equality" to all and "Consecrate" wrong-doers. They create an even playing field and fight fair.
Paladins are also all about buffing allies and helping each other out, which is why Blessing of Kings, Might and Wisdom exist. They have a small sub theme of Holy Weapons and Blessed Allies which is where Truesilver Champion, Ashbringer and Paladin Murlocs come into play. Classes adopt additional themes over time, and Paladin just so happened to get Holy Murlocs.
Mechanically, though the reason Paladin has secrets is because there's no clean way to have an effect trigger on your opponent's turn. While Avenge doesn't make sense as a secret, it is thematically sound since your minion(s) have witnessed an ally fall and work to avenge their ally. They each make sense when explained, but it's difficult to surmise when they share the "Secret" keyword.
From that point of view, certain secrets do have sense. Others don't. I agree with most of what you say, but Blizz since A LOT of time is trying to make of Paladin a swiss knife, with his 99 unusable archetypes. I think they've to sit down, take a definition and give Paladin something that sticks to the idea of a holy knight, as you said. Not... Murlocs?
The fucked up thing is they have a perfectly fine class identity for paladin already laid out they just kind of fail to fully deliver.
Paladin: Paladins are great champions who support their minions with buffs, healing, and divine shields; however, they are not afraid to get their hands dirty when the time comes. They are methodical, controlling the battlefield through debuffs and focused attacks instead of destructive spells. Strength and persistence are the keys to a Paladin’s victory.
Thank god I wasn't the only one flaming about this, every expansion for the past 2 years Paladin had been given garbage cards. I am hoping that since this is a new year, Paladin will get some insane Mech synergies that help with Control and not with Aggro!!! Make Paladin control again please!
Now that you mention it, Paladins having Secrets is a kind of odd bit of class identity. Paladins are thematically the most straightforward, least-sneaky, so secrets don't necessarily feel right.
I think the key to Paladin identity is that it's a minion class which can go either wide, or go tall, and switch between wide and tall really easily. They can easily flood with small minions, but can also make those small minions pretty big.
One thing they really need is for a bit of a shift in their basic/classic cards. They really need a "spawn several Silver Hand Recruit" spell or two to be part of their core kit, something like a Stand Against Darkness or Lost in the Jungle. Maybe there's a twist like Muster for Battle or Air Raid, but *something* like one of those should be in the basic/classic Paladin.
Now that you mention it, Paladins having Secrets is a kind of odd bit of class identity. Paladins are thematically the most straightforward, least-sneaky, so secrets don't necessarily feel right.
I think the key to Paladin identity is that it's a minion class which can go either wide, or go tall, and switch between wide and tall really easily. They can easily flood with small minions, but can also make those small minions pretty big.
One thing they really need is for a bit of a shift in their basic/classic cards. They really need a "spawn several Silver Hand Recruit" spell or two to be part of their core kit, something like a Stand Against Darkness or Lost in the Jungle. Maybe there's a twist like Muster for Battle or Air Raid, but *something* like one of those should be in the basic/classic Paladin.
Yeah, that's how it is right now... But that's also part of the class identity of Druid, except it's with treants haha.
I feel they'd go with the huge buffs (not only stats), healing, board presence and control, but not excel at it as priest does.
Apparently each class gets 15 cards this year, instead of the usual 10 (per expansion)?
There is hope this once great class can recover from the trash that was given to it in the Year of the Dragon. You'd think Paladin would be a natural counter to Demon Hunters. Good vs. Evil and all that.
Apparently each class gets 15 cards this year, instead of the usual 10 (per expansion)?
There is hope this once great class can recover from the trash that was given to it in the Year of the Dragon. You'd think Paladin would be a natural counter to Demon Hunters. Good vs. Evil and all that.
I don't like nu mech or otk paladin so for me paladins class identity is lose creatively. Everybody does what paladin can do but way better. Rogue is na autolose match up
Apparently each class gets 15 cards this year, instead of the usual 10 (per expansion)?
There is hope this once great class can recover from the trash that was given to it in the Year of the Dragon. You'd think Paladin would be a natural counter to Demon Hunters. Good vs. Evil and all that.
Demon hunter is getting 15 per expansion since they can "catch up" to the other classes in terms of how many cards they have. The other classes still get 10.
Blizzard cant stick with 1 archetype through year.
We got otk,mech,murlocs,reborn,"pure",dragon-paladin supporting cards and in effect...we got giant pile of shit and nothing,yes ofc mech archetype is viable but it feels nothing like "paladin" thing for me. Where are heals,buffs,recruits synergy (aside of this abomination called odd paladin),sticky minions? im kinda sad to basically stop playing for entire year coz yeah,paladin was viable at some moments,but overall was not really enjoyable class.
Yeah, Secrets don't fit thematically at all. From a flavour perspective it doesn't fit. From a balance perspective, it's rare that you actually want to put them in your deck - they're often not worth the card slot.
I feel like the Paladin identity as defined by Blizz (in terms of the traits laid out instead of the image of the class) just shuts down any control possibilities whatsoever as well. Not having any direct removal is a choker for the class. It's also completely weird card draw isn't listed as a weakness given that they are hesitant to add good, non-conditional card draw for the class.
In fact the Paladin basic card pool is straight trash. They nerfed Equality to the ground, so that's crap now; once you take that out, the real staples in the basic pool are Truesilver, Blessing of Kings, Tirion (maybe) and Consecration (maybe). Honestly as the power level of cards has gone up generally, Tirion has gone from a game-ender to a decently strong minion, Consecration is just mediocre and the only reason we're using it is because they haven't seen fit to give us anything else. Like, the Paladin basic card pool basically revolves around minion combat, having things on the board which you can then take advantage of and taking value trades with them. And that's fine, but the massive amount of mana/tempo cheating in the game rn and the amount of removals and clears there are and minions rarely live for a turn, if that. So many of the tools that Paladin has are so dependent on having something live that the strengths of the Paladin class aren't able to be used properly. They need to start giving proper removals, clears, draws, Rush minions.
I'm pretty happy with what's been done for priest. I don't play that class pretty much, but it needed a rework since his class identity was confusing. I think the next class that needs a HUGE rework is Paladin. Paladin, right now, doesn't have ANY sense. It's like a bunch of pieces from other classes. Murlocs from shamans, healing from priest, set 1 health from hunter, secrets. WHY.
My biggest issue is with the secrets. Not with the power level of them, no, with the concept of A PALADIN having SECRETS. It just meaningless. Let me put it this way:
Hunters uses traps = OK with secrets
Mages use enchantments and spell shenanigans = OK with secrets
Rogues are sneaky bastards = OK with secrets
Paladin = ??????
What do you guys think?
Ye paladin sucks balls.. Nobody knows what he should do better than others. Whats his keyword?
I mean, initially it was divine shield, huge buffs and huge heals for enduring in the game. I was okay with that. But over all the expansions they started to give Pali a lot of mechanics and things from other classes and it became pointless as a class itself.
Palys evolved and drive Mechs now, and not too poorly.
It's hilarious to me that now Paladin has no class identity. A few years ago, Priest had nothing. Paladin healed better, Warlock had better combos, Rogue stole better, Mage had better spells and Paladin also had better buffs.
Paladins are supposed to be holy knights who smite down evil. To do so, they bring "Equality" to all and "Consecrate" wrong-doers. They create an even playing field and fight fair.
Paladins are also all about buffing allies and helping each other out, which is why Blessing of Kings, Might and Wisdom exist. They have a small sub theme of Holy Weapons and Blessed Allies which is where Truesilver Champion, Ashbringer and Paladin Murlocs come into play. Classes adopt additional themes over time, and Paladin just so happened to get Holy Murlocs.
Mechanically, though the reason Paladin has secrets is because there's no clean way to have an effect trigger on your opponent's turn. While Avenge doesn't make sense as a secret, it is thematically sound since your minion(s) have witnessed an ally fall and work to avenge their ally. They each make sense when explained, but it's difficult to surmise when they share the "Secret" keyword.
Paladin has a mid-tier basic and classic set. The problem is that blizzard keeps throwing multiple new archetypes at the class every expansion and hoping something sticks. RoS they threw dragon pally (Let's give paladin a 10 mana card that heals their opponent to full health!), Big Pally, and secret pally at the wall. The dragons sucked, big pally was too slow in a control meta, and there weren't enough secrets to support that archetype.
SoU threw quest reborn pally, murloc pally, and swarm pally, highland pally, Murloc stuck due to Prismatic Lens which is rotating next month, but it stopped once doom in the tomb was released since it wasn't aggro enough. Quest Pally was good for a month or two, then Doom and the tomb came out and the archetype wasn't able to handle evolve shaman and N'zoth every turn rogue which were overrunning the meta(Eggs rotate in a few weeks, so this will have zero support then. Meta is currently too aggro for this quest). Swarm was only seen in tournaments.Paladin didn't have enough highland support to play a highland deck.
DoD tried dragon again, pure pally, more swarm, and mech pally. The dragons are still not where they need to be. Pure is currently played but not a top tier deck. Swarm got overtaken by mech pally. Mech is the big deck right now, but the majority of the deck is rotating here soon.
Blizz needs to figure out what they want to do with pally for the next 1-2 years and stick with it, not create something new every 4 months.
I feel like paladin and shaman both really struggle with class identity. Other classes have specific things they're good at which shape the kinds of decks they can play. Rogue can do combo and tempo decks but never control. Priest can do combo and control but never straight aggro. Paladin and Shaman just do whatever. They've both had combo, midrange, aggro, control, token decks, you get the point. Blizzard doesn't know what to do with them so they just give them random tools and if they're good enough there's a deck.
From that point of view, certain secrets do have sense. Others don't. I agree with most of what you say, but Blizz since A LOT of time is trying to make of Paladin a swiss knife, with his 99 unusable archetypes. I think they've to sit down, take a definition and give Paladin something that sticks to the idea of a holy knight, as you said. Not... Murlocs?
The fucked up thing is they have a perfectly fine class identity for paladin already laid out they just kind of fail to fully deliver.
They make cards that are inline with those goals but they are usually not good or don't have enough support to be viable.
Thank god I wasn't the only one flaming about this, every expansion for the past 2 years Paladin had been given garbage cards. I am hoping that since this is a new year, Paladin will get some insane Mech synergies that help with Control and not with Aggro!!! Make Paladin control again please!
Now that you mention it, Paladins having Secrets is a kind of odd bit of class identity. Paladins are thematically the most straightforward, least-sneaky, so secrets don't necessarily feel right.
I think the key to Paladin identity is that it's a minion class which can go either wide, or go tall, and switch between wide and tall really easily. They can easily flood with small minions, but can also make those small minions pretty big.
One thing they really need is for a bit of a shift in their basic/classic cards. They really need a "spawn several Silver Hand Recruit" spell or two to be part of their core kit, something like a Stand Against Darkness or Lost in the Jungle. Maybe there's a twist like Muster for Battle or Air Raid, but *something* like one of those should be in the basic/classic Paladin.
Yeah, that's how it is right now... But that's also part of the class identity of Druid, except it's with treants haha.
I feel they'd go with the huge buffs (not only stats), healing, board presence and control, but not excel at it as priest does.
Divine shield is a large part of their identity. Shaman has one divine shield minion but that's about it.
Apparently each class gets 15 cards this year, instead of the usual 10 (per expansion)?
There is hope this once great class can recover from the trash that was given to it in the Year of the Dragon. You'd think Paladin would be a natural counter to Demon Hunters. Good vs. Evil and all that.
Apparently each class gets 15 cards this year, instead of the usual 10 (per expansion)?
There is hope this once great class can recover from the trash that was given to it in the Year of the Dragon. You'd think Paladin would be a natural counter to Demon Hunters. Good vs. Evil and all that.
I don't like nu mech or otk paladin so for me paladins class identity is lose creatively. Everybody does what paladin can do but way better. Rogue is na autolose match up
Demon hunter is getting 15 per expansion since they can "catch up" to the other classes in terms of how many cards they have. The other classes still get 10.
Blizzard cant stick with 1 archetype through year.
We got otk,mech,murlocs,reborn,"pure",dragon-paladin supporting cards and in effect...we got giant pile of shit and nothing,yes ofc mech archetype is viable but it feels nothing like "paladin" thing for me. Where are heals,buffs,recruits synergy (aside of this abomination called odd paladin),sticky minions? im kinda sad to basically stop playing for entire year coz yeah,paladin was viable at some moments,but overall was not really enjoyable class.
Yeah, Secrets don't fit thematically at all. From a flavour perspective it doesn't fit. From a balance perspective, it's rare that you actually want to put them in your deck - they're often not worth the card slot.
I feel like the Paladin identity as defined by Blizz (in terms of the traits laid out instead of the image of the class) just shuts down any control possibilities whatsoever as well. Not having any direct removal is a choker for the class. It's also completely weird card draw isn't listed as a weakness given that they are hesitant to add good, non-conditional card draw for the class.
In fact the Paladin basic card pool is straight trash. They nerfed Equality to the ground, so that's crap now; once you take that out, the real staples in the basic pool are Truesilver, Blessing of Kings, Tirion (maybe) and Consecration (maybe). Honestly as the power level of cards has gone up generally, Tirion has gone from a game-ender to a decently strong minion, Consecration is just mediocre and the only reason we're using it is because they haven't seen fit to give us anything else. Like, the Paladin basic card pool basically revolves around minion combat, having things on the board which you can then take advantage of and taking value trades with them. And that's fine, but the massive amount of mana/tempo cheating in the game rn and the amount of removals and clears there are and minions rarely live for a turn, if that. So many of the tools that Paladin has are so dependent on having something live that the strengths of the Paladin class aren't able to be used properly. They need to start giving proper removals, clears, draws, Rush minions.
Try to remember any expansion when Paladin didn’t suck and when he had an identity. There was handbuff Paladin that didn’t see play. Now we have mech.