Seriously this matchup is just terrible for me. I've played against about five priests in the last few days and I just can't wrap my head around them. Two of them mind gamed'd tirion (one on turn 4!) and the other three all thoughtstole him. When the last guy mind game'd him I used my faceless, which would in theory make sense, but of course it got mind controlled immediatley. Like what the fuck? How do you even play around all that shit as control paladin?
What's your decklist? I play control paladin almost exclusively as well, and this matchup does feel really hard. Mind Control on those legendaries is just devastating; Shadow Madness hits Belcher, Senjin, Acolytes, Peacekeepers. Thoughtsteal tends to get exceptionally good value as well. I could also use some help with this one; it makes me want to throw up my hands in frustration! Losing to hunter or something isn't so bad since those games take like 8 minutes; spending 30 minutes watching your prospects of victory being slowly ground away is pretty frustrating though.
@opeons: As I said the problem wasn't that I slapped him down, he mind game'd him (with 16 cards reamaining in my deck btw) and I was in a pretty bad spot, since I didn't have an answer (got black knight four turns later, thanks deck) so I felt like facelessing him would give me the best chance. Should have arguably waited longer, but he also had a faceless so I would have probably been fucked either way.
@UglyBastard (nice name, way to go): I guess I could try that if possible.
@BiGPandZ: Yeah, I guess maybe I shouldn't complain already, but it's just so damn annoying. Also that cabal + aldor play on ysera happend to me as well in one of those games (it better not have been you! :p) I'll try running Cairne again, already have ysera in, although she's quite difficult to play as well with mind controls flying around everywhere.
@dwl_: Actually most priests I've played recently have played mindgames, I have no idea why and I would even feel sorry for them if they didn't always get tirion out of it. Anyway, I don't really run that many weaker cards, so it's kinda difficult for me to get them to play those cards on any.
@inklunkink: Here's my decklist, of course I'd appreciate any suggestions for optimizing it further.
@BigPandZ: Yeah, I usually end up using syl to bait sw:d before tirion (and until recently rag, but I'm not too sure about how good he is here). Also thanks for the help, I guess I'll just try to hold back more with the big guys until they're forced to use their cards suboptimally cause of fatique.
@dwl_: Thanks, I'll give it a spin, though of course I still run into a hunter every few games, so we'll have to see about how long I'm gonna stick with it ;)
You have play like your against both Priest and Paladin at the same time. I usually don't play anything i can't instantly kill, and save my Oozes. Sunwalker is good Mindcontrol bait, especially if you also have a Black knight.
Thanks for the suggestions, I've added one sunwalker, unfortunately I don't have harrison jones, but I'll craft him if I get the chance and have the dust after GvG ;) (Btw just got equality + consecration'd by a priest again rofl also thoughtsteal pulled tirion + black knight once again wtf) (also he's running imp master so I can't even use aldor + kodo reliably -.- who even runs imp master in a priest deck??)
i played many matches against control priest as a control paladin and this matchup is not too difficult. the only way priest can win is by having insane luck with Thoughtsteal(they get equality, aldor peacekeeper to steal your tirion wit cabal or if they get tirion), but the best way to defeat priest is by taking full advantage of the Truesilver Champion and Equality to create huge card advantage in your favour, also be very patient, if your opponent doesn't play threats you should just use your hero power alot and just baite out their removal because that is the best quality of control paladin(wait and make your opponent run out of threats). I hope my advice will help you
As others have mentioned, Priest is actually a horrible match-up for Control Paladin. Control Paladin just has so many cards that have tremendous value on their own that the Thoughtsteals will almost always screw you.
That said, the best answer to Priest is to include a LOT of 4 attack minions. Cairne Bloodhoof, Sunwalker, Ysera, Chillwind Yeti, etc (whatever floats your boat really) to bait the single Mind Control before you drop your game winners and include enough targets for Shadow Word: Death to bait those out before you drop a Tirion Fordring extremely late game.
Optionally, some control paladins have just stopped running Tirion Fordring.
Also, you need to have enough answers in your deck to your own minions that whatever they steal will generally be answerable and try and hold those answers back as long as possible.
Mindgames seems like a really odd choice for a control Priest. But, I'm no Priest expert.
This is my Paladin deck. Again, I'm no expert, but I do pretty well against Priest. With the 2 Kodos, you can easily eliminate their health-buffed Northshire Clerics. I will actually keep a Kodo in my opening hand if I have one. If I'm going second, I will keep either Tirion, Ironbeak/Spellbreaker, or Kodo. I won't mulligan for any of those, though.
My deck is tech'ed more for aggro. So for control Priest, I would drop Ironbeak for a Spellbreaker, Unstable Ghoul for a second Shade of Naxx, and I would also drop the Sludges or Senjins (maybe one of each) for Sunwalkers. I might also drop that second Guardian of Kings for a Spectral Knight. Spectral Knights and Faerie Dragons are really hard for Priest to deal with.
Assume they are going to Thoughsteal Tirion, and always, always, always hold your silence until they play Tirion against you. Unless you are confident about your win in some way that the Priest having Tirion or the Ashbringer won't matter.
You're giving the priest so many great Thoughtsteal targets that can be used against you -- The Black Knight, Acidic Swamp Ooze, Tirion, Ysera, Faceless, even those Zombie Chows if they combine them with Auchenai.
My last thought here is that if the Priest plays Northshire Cleric on turn 1-3 or something, and you don't have a minion on board with high enough attack deal with it (like a Wild Pyro), do NOT use your hero power. If you put out a dude on turn 2, for example, Priest just runs their Cleric into it and heals to draw a card. Also be aware on turn 6 Cabal Shadow Priest is now an option, so dropping a late Acolyte of Pain might not be a good idea unless you have a silence or some way to deal with it on the next turn. You just want to limit their card draw as much as you can.
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@luci: If priests have to get insanely lucky I must have the worst luck, as I said Tirion Fordring gets thoughtstolen every single time. I feel like the problem with the matchup is just that the cards that I run are too good on their own. Just about any card they could get from Thoughtsteal is theoratically useful for them. I'll try to wait longer if possible though.
EDIT: @SillySocks (aka Ninjia): Thanks for the suggestions! Not using the hero power when a Northshire Cleric is on the field should be common sense. I'm not sure if I want to get rid of The Black Knight or Acidic Swamp Ooze, as they are pretty much the best possible answer to a thoughtstolen Tirion Fordring imo. I might consider a Spectral Knight, though. Seems like a pretty solid drop against priest.
@luci: If priests have to get insanely lucky I must have the worst luck, as I said Tirion Fordring gets thoughtstolen every single time. I feel like the problem with the matchup is just that the cards that I run are too good on their own. Just about any card they could get from Thoughtsteal is theoratically useful for them. I'll try to wait longer if possible though.
the chance to get tirion with thoughtsteal is not very high so yeah, i think you're quite unlucky if it happens often to you
Heck yeah, I just won the most recent game against a control priest (needless to say he also ran Mindgames for some reason). Thank god I had Tirion in my hand after a few turns. Thanks for all the help, I feel like the suggestions have really helped :)
main reason it's tricky right now in my opinion is decks designed to beat hunter. a proper control priest will have a bit too much late game to deal with sometimes unless your deck is also slow. and you need to have answers to your own cards due to thought steal and mind control. i try to play out tyrion by turn 8 if possible due to mind control then at least I can get a weapon but several of my decks don't have enough answers (some even keep tyrion in hand to prevent thought steal).
deathrattle priest is easier , just aldor circled injured blademaster, not play into auchenai too much, clear with truesilver, try to force them to waste removal. don't play into shadow madness. don't be afraid to use holy light on minions if it leads to a board that is difficult to clear
buffadin with kings, ooze, sword of justice is actually decent vs priest since they run out of death and have trouble clearing with auchenai. shade is also ok since it can get out of auchenai clear range if played early and can't be interacted with until it's unleashed and priest has only belcher as taunt most of the time. I've won some games with shadow on board, weapon in hand, into alextraza (ran into some people actually playing mass dispel though - lol)
Seriously this matchup is just terrible for me. I've played against about five priests in the last few days and I just can't wrap my head around them. Two of them mind gamed'd tirion (one on turn 4!) and the other three all thoughtstole him. When the last guy mind game'd him I used my faceless, which would in theory make sense, but of course it got mind controlled immediatley. Like what the fuck? How do you even play around all that shit as control paladin?
What's your decklist? I play control paladin almost exclusively as well, and this matchup does feel really hard. Mind Control on those legendaries is just devastating; Shadow Madness hits Belcher, Senjin, Acolytes, Peacekeepers. Thoughtsteal tends to get exceptionally good value as well. I could also use some help with this one; it makes me want to throw up my hands in frustration! Losing to hunter or something isn't so bad since those games take like 8 minutes; spending 30 minutes watching your prospects of victory being slowly ground away is pretty frustrating though.
Thanks for all the quick replies!
@opeons: As I said the problem wasn't that I slapped him down, he mind game'd him (with 16 cards reamaining in my deck btw) and I was in a pretty bad spot, since I didn't have an answer (got black knight four turns later, thanks deck) so I felt like facelessing him would give me the best chance. Should have arguably waited longer, but he also had a faceless so I would have probably been fucked either way.
@UglyBastard (nice name, way to go): I guess I could try that if possible.
@BiGPandZ: Yeah, I guess maybe I shouldn't complain already, but it's just so damn annoying. Also that cabal + aldor play on ysera happend to me as well in one of those games (it better not have been you! :p) I'll try running Cairne again, already have ysera in, although she's quite difficult to play as well with mind controls flying around everywhere.
@dwl_: Actually most priests I've played recently have played mindgames, I have no idea why and I would even feel sorry for them if they didn't always get tirion out of it. Anyway, I don't really run that many weaker cards, so it's kinda difficult for me to get them to play those cards on any.
@inklunkink: Here's my decklist, of course I'd appreciate any suggestions for optimizing it further.
@BigPandZ: Yeah, I usually end up using syl to bait sw:d before tirion (and until recently rag, but I'm not too sure about how good he is here). Also thanks for the help, I guess I'll just try to hold back more with the big guys until they're forced to use their cards suboptimally cause of fatique.
@dwl_: Thanks, I'll give it a spin, though of course I still run into a hunter every few games, so we'll have to see about how long I'm gonna stick with it ;)
You have play like your against both Priest and Paladin at the same time. I usually don't play anything i can't instantly kill, and save my Oozes. Sunwalker is good Mindcontrol bait, especially if you also have a Black knight.
Add [card]Harrison Jones[/card] to you deck. Good machup when Tirion Fordring get stolen by Mind Control.
Yesterday I dropped Tirion only to have my priest opponent Shadow Word Death it into a Harrison Jones he'd thoughtstolen from me earlier :(
Thanks for the suggestions, I've added one sunwalker, unfortunately I don't have harrison jones, but I'll craft him if I get the chance and have the dust after GvG ;) (Btw just got equality + consecration'd by a priest again rofl also thoughtsteal pulled tirion + black knight once again wtf) (also he's running imp master so I can't even use aldor + kodo reliably -.- who even runs imp master in a priest deck??)
i played many matches against control priest as a control paladin and this matchup is not too difficult. the only way priest can win is by having insane luck with Thoughtsteal(they get equality, aldor peacekeeper to steal your tirion wit cabal or if they get tirion), but the best way to defeat priest is by taking full advantage of the Truesilver Champion and Equality to create huge card advantage in your favour, also be very patient, if your opponent doesn't play threats you should just use your hero power alot and just baite out their removal because that is the best quality of control paladin(wait and make your opponent run out of threats). I hope my advice will help you
Borussia Dortmund fan
As others have mentioned, Priest is actually a horrible match-up for Control Paladin. Control Paladin just has so many cards that have tremendous value on their own that the Thoughtsteals will almost always screw you.
That said, the best answer to Priest is to include a LOT of 4 attack minions. Cairne Bloodhoof, Sunwalker, Ysera, Chillwind Yeti, etc (whatever floats your boat really) to bait the single Mind Control before you drop your game winners and include enough targets for Shadow Word: Death to bait those out before you drop a Tirion Fordring extremely late game.
Optionally, some control paladins have just stopped running Tirion Fordring.
Also, you need to have enough answers in your deck to your own minions that whatever they steal will generally be answerable and try and hold those answers back as long as possible.
Oh, and like others have said, ALWAYS play around Cabal Shadow Priest. You want them stealing Silver Hand Recruits or the Slime from Sludge Belcher, NOT Acolyte of Pain or Harvest Golem.
It's a slog of a match playing this way, but it does work.
Mindgames seems like a really odd choice for a control Priest. But, I'm no Priest expert.
This is my Paladin deck. Again, I'm no expert, but I do pretty well against Priest. With the 2 Kodos, you can easily eliminate their health-buffed Northshire Clerics. I will actually keep a Kodo in my opening hand if I have one. If I'm going second, I will keep either Tirion, Ironbeak/Spellbreaker, or Kodo. I won't mulligan for any of those, though.
My deck is tech'ed more for aggro. So for control Priest, I would drop Ironbeak for a Spellbreaker, Unstable Ghoul for a second Shade of Naxx, and I would also drop the Sludges or Senjins (maybe one of each) for Sunwalkers. I might also drop that second Guardian of Kings for a Spectral Knight. Spectral Knights and Faerie Dragons are really hard for Priest to deal with.
Assume they are going to Thoughsteal Tirion, and always, always, always hold your silence until they play Tirion against you. Unless you are confident about your win in some way that the Priest having Tirion or the Ashbringer won't matter.
You're giving the priest so many great Thoughtsteal targets that can be used against you -- The Black Knight, Acidic Swamp Ooze, Tirion, Ysera, Faceless, even those Zombie Chows if they combine them with Auchenai.
My last thought here is that if the Priest plays Northshire Cleric on turn 1-3 or something, and you don't have a minion on board with high enough attack deal with it (like a Wild Pyro), do NOT use your hero power. If you put out a dude on turn 2, for example, Priest just runs their Cleric into it and heals to draw a card. Also be aware on turn 6 Cabal Shadow Priest is now an option, so dropping a late Acolyte of Pain might not be a good idea unless you have a silence or some way to deal with it on the next turn. You just want to limit their card draw as much as you can.
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@luci: If priests have to get insanely lucky I must have the worst luck, as I said Tirion Fordring gets thoughtstolen every single time. I feel like the problem with the matchup is just that the cards that I run are too good on their own. Just about any card they could get from Thoughtsteal is theoratically useful for them. I'll try to wait longer if possible though.
@mr_hosed: Thanks, I might try running Chillwind Yeti, I already have Cairne Bloodhoof, a Sunwalker and Ysera in the deck though, so I guess that'll have to do. Playing around Cabal Shadow Priest is rather easy imo, usually I have enough cards against priest so I can hold back the Acolyte of Pain until they take a Silver Hand Recruit. I also don't run Harvest Golems so that's not a concern.
Thanks for the replies again :)
EDIT: @SillySocks (aka Ninjia): Thanks for the suggestions! Not using the hero power when a Northshire Cleric is on the field should be common sense. I'm not sure if I want to get rid of The Black Knight or Acidic Swamp Ooze, as they are pretty much the best possible answer to a thoughtstolen Tirion Fordring imo. I might consider a Spectral Knight, though. Seems like a pretty solid drop against priest.
the chance to get tirion with thoughtsteal is not very high so yeah, i think you're quite unlucky if it happens often to you
Borussia Dortmund fan
Heck yeah, I just won the most recent game against a control priest (needless to say he also ran Mindgames for some reason). Thank god I had Tirion in my hand after a few turns. Thanks for all the help, I feel like the suggestions have really helped :)
main reason it's tricky right now in my opinion is decks designed to beat hunter. a proper control priest will have a bit too much late game to deal with sometimes unless your deck is also slow. and you need to have answers to your own cards due to thought steal and mind control. i try to play out tyrion by turn 8 if possible due to mind control then at least I can get a weapon but several of my decks don't have enough answers (some even keep tyrion in hand to prevent thought steal).
deathrattle priest is easier , just aldor circled injured blademaster, not play into auchenai too much, clear with truesilver, try to force them to waste removal. don't play into shadow madness. don't be afraid to use holy light on minions if it leads to a board that is difficult to clear
buffadin with kings, ooze, sword of justice is actually decent vs priest since they run out of death and have trouble clearing with auchenai. shade is also ok since it can get out of auchenai clear range if played early and can't be interacted with until it's unleashed and priest has only belcher as taunt most of the time. I've won some games with shadow on board, weapon in hand, into alextraza (ran into some people actually playing mass dispel though - lol)