"Look at the meta" is not evidence. You are paranoid.
Let's look at actual facts. Here's former game developer Ben Brode answering, "Are there any cool card combos players have found that you never expected from testing?"
Team 5 doesn't pick or create decks, they release cards that sometimes suggest specific archetypes, but they don't makes cards like Baku and go, "We want Odd Paladin to be top tier," then when it's too strong, nerf CTA because "Okay now we want EVEN Paladin to be top tier."
Team 5 doesn't give a fuck what specific deck or class is the best.
Fundamental BS. T5 print specific for aggressive decks to rule and even dominate the meta. Seen it every expansion. It's card design politics. Who thinks that they don't know in advance which archetypes will be top tier, is fundamentally ignorant how HS became a succes (feeding mindlessness).
Source?
Source? Let me return the favor dear mr. Kaladin:
Team 5 doesn't pick or create decks, they release cards that sometimes suggest specific archetypes, but they don't makes cards like Baku and go, "We want Odd Paladin to be top tier," then when it's too strong, nerf CTA because "Okay now we want EVEN Paladin to be top tier."
Source?
Team 5 doesn't give a fuck what specific deck or class is the best.
Source?
You see dear mr. Kaladin, we all know T5 - Blizzard is a closed organization on virtually all topics that has the interest of the community. To name a few:
Reasons why certain cards are printed. (remember Brode on Shudderwock?).
Reasons why certain cards are nerfed and others don't.
No openess to the RNG- mechanic to investigate possibility of rigging.
Reasons why at least 75% of all T1 decks are either aggressive aggro or agressive midrange.
Why the skill floor and win condition of meta decks respectively is low and that easy.
Why there is no diversity in win conditions: the two main win conditions are: a) aggressive spam, buff go face or b) if you don't kill me in time you are dead by default.
The nature of balance politics.
The relation between avarage skill level of the game and pack selling.
Why the meta is generally polarized, therefore RPS is that steep.
And so forth. So Blizzard is never giving insight in anything to anybody. The only thing we have is speculation and analysis. There you have your answer. There are no sourcess for no one.
Opinion about the game depends on the way you analyse.
So dear mr. Kaladin you like to show off your knowledge of the game within the framework of what Blizzard puts on the table (this card vs. that card, this class, vs. that etc.). I, myself take a step back and analyse the performance of developers based on provided skill, balance, diversity, questions mentioned and more.
Do you really think cards are conceived on a saterdaynight after 10 beers? Do you really thing developers don't think about the impact on the meta in relation to pack selling? Do you really think they don't have a target audience for whom they predominately print cards: the fanboys?
Everyone who thinks developers just print cards and don't know upfront what the meta will be as basis of their succes and the succes of the game as a whole, is quite naive. Succes of this game = target audience = the mindless low skill demanding fanboy = card design politics.
That's not how it works. You, who made the claim in the positive, have the burden of proof. The onus is not on me to prove that something is NOT true.
T5 devs give much information on social media, stream, that's according to this source atleast: https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com. You might actually find that google answers a lot of your question.
Another thing worth noting is that expansions are actually created a lot of time in advance fx. Boomsday were finished just as WW released, meaning that Blizzard don't actually know how the meta will be affected, thus nerfs happen after the expansion is released.
Now I don't have a source for this but as for why the meta is mainly aggro, I think depends more on the playerbase than team 5's desicions. Many players don't have a lot of time to play and then turns to aggro. You accomplish more by playing 2 5-minute games with an aggressive deck than 1 10-minute game as a control deck. Especially considering both options should have about the same chance to win.
"Look at the meta" is not evidence. You are paranoid.
Let's look at actual facts. Here's former game developer Ben Brode answering, "Are there any cool card combos players have found that you never expected from testing?"
lol what more do you want, real live Ben Brode, in person, being asked this question under a lie detector?
edit:
@minibassada
The meta has always been and will always be driven by aggro decks, not because of the card sets or because "T5 specifically wants aggro to dominate/hates control," but because of the game design itself. The player attacking chooses the defenders (unlike MTG), so Hearthstone will always be a "questions first" game.
Where is the proof that Roman rulers knew in advance that the masess would love blood, sands and gladiator fights? They just did and the masses became the huge fanboy target audience. Enough to keep them sheeple.
So, as ever most of your points are just poor however this one was particularly jarring for it's wrongness. You do realise that the movie Gladiator and the TV Show Spartacus are just a fantastical view on how Rome worked and not very historically accurate don't you?
So whilst I can't prove or disprove what the Roman rulers knew in advance it doesn't take much research to find the origins of Gladiatorial combat and how that evolved over centuries into the grand games people associate with the Colloseum. The rulers didn't just have a whim that this would be a good way to control the masses, it had nothing to do with any of that it started as a way to worship and appease their gods during funeral rites and grew from there.
Arguing on the internet is like playing chess with a pigeon. You may be good at chess, but the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces down, take a shit on the table, and strut around like its victorious.
Team 5 doesn't pick or create decks, they release cards that sometimes suggest specific archetypes, but they don't makes cards like Baku and go, "We want Odd Paladin to be top tier," then when it's too strong, nerf CTA because "Okay now we want EVEN Paladin to be top tier."
Team 5 doesn't give a fuck what specific deck or class is the best.
If thats true then this is a Huge problem ... if i create a game i will definietly try it first before i release it ... wait a sec ! your RIGHT ! Freeze shaman , treant druid , Disolock , mech warrior ....... Etc was pushed blindly !! OMG
It takes a community of millions of players weeks, if not months to invent and refine decks and archetypes, and you expect Blizzard with their 100 or so employees to fully figure out a 'meta' before they release an expansion?
How naive can you get...
You do know that new archetype decks get created within hours (even minutes) of card reveals for each expansion - before the expansion has even been released, right?
"Look at the meta" is not evidence. You are paranoid.
Let's look at actual facts. Here's former game developer Ben Brode answering, "Are there any cool card combos players have found that you never expected from testing?"
lol what more do you want, real live Ben Brode, in person, being asked this question under a lie detector?
edit:
@minibassada
The meta has always been and will always be driven by aggro decks, not because of the card sets or because "T5 specifically wants aggro to dominate/hates control," but because of the game design itself. The player attacking chooses the defenders (unlike MTG), so Hearthstone will always be a "questions first" game.
I completely agree. It might have been unclear what I meant in my previous post. I'm aware that T5 does not push aggro, in fact I think Blizzard have been toning their aggressive cards down, while printing some super solid control tools. The fact that HS is a "questions game" is indeed profitable for aggro by making you able to end games very quickly, mean you reach accomplishments fast than you likely would by playing a control deck and just by reading posts on sites like this one, I'm aware that a lot of players don't have a lot of time to play, making aggro decks much more attractive to play. Apart from that aggro decks are usually cheap, shares a lot of cards and often requires less resource management than other archetypes.
Top paladin decks are Odd Paladin, Even Paladin, Uther OTK Paladin. These decks are totally different from each other and share only few cards between each other. None of these decks feel oppressive or bad to lose, OTK paladin can be a little oppressive against Control decks but it's fine.
So yes, Paladin has a many different decks at tier 1 but these decks are very different and are easily counterable. I don't see any reason to nerf Paladin.
Now I don't have a source for this but as for why the meta is mainly aggro, I think depends more on the playerbase than team 5's desicions. Many players don't have a lot of time to play and then turns to aggro. You accomplish more by playing 2 5-minute games with an aggressive deck than 1 10-minute game as a control deck. Especially considering both options should have about the same chance to win.
No I don't think so that meta is mainly aggro due to the playerbase. It is a card design choice of developers to let the playerbase choose for mainly aggro. You can't blame the masses for card design politics as much as you can't blame Marcus Aurelius to abolish arena fights, while his son Commedus reinstated it (with a huge approval of the masses).
HS is not grassroots, it is top down.
Again with the outrageous and baseless claims.
ATTACHMENTS
card design politics
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
Now I don't have a source for this but as for why the meta is mainly aggro, I think depends more on the playerbase than team 5's desicions. Many players don't have a lot of time to play and then turns to aggro. You accomplish more by playing 2 5-minute games with an aggressive deck than 1 10-minute game as a control deck. Especially considering both options should have about the same chance to win.
No I don't think so that meta is mainly aggro due to the playerbase. It is a card design choice of developers to let the playerbase choose for mainly aggro. You can't blame the masses for card design politics as much as you can't blame Marcus Aurelius to abolish arena fights, while his son Commedus reinstated it (with a huge approval of the masses).
Now I don't have a source for this but as for why the meta is mainly aggro, I think depends more on the playerbase than team 5's desicions. Many players don't have a lot of time to play and then turns to aggro. You accomplish more by playing 2 5-minute games with an aggressive deck than 1 10-minute game as a control deck. Especially considering both options should have about the same chance to win.
No I don't think so that meta is mainly aggro due to the playerbase. It is a card design choice of developers to let the playerbase choose for mainly aggro. You can't blame the masses for card design politics as much as you can't blame Marcus Aurelius to abolish arena fights, while his son Commedus reinstated it (with a huge approval of the masses).
HS is not grassroots, it is top down.
Again with the outrageous and baseless claims.
Source?
.......you're asking me to provide a source to prove your claim is baseless?
I already did that, check the youtube Q/A with Ben Brode I posted.
Or if you're asking me to provide a source for the outrageous and baseless claim, it's you. You said that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
FFS, just wait 3 months and almost every deck you see on ladder right now, including every single Paladin deck, will be outright gone or changes so much it is pure speculation right now whether the class would even survive.
Paladin is far from invincible, save for the 2 turns they play Time Out!. They have a few good archetypes right now, which is fine. A class is allowed to have more than one working archetype, and it is good when they do, especially when they are so different they have not a single card in common, as it is the case with Odd and Even Paladin.
Neither of these archetypes is immune to nerfs or rotations or meta shifts as several periods since the release of Witchwood showed. Even Paladin was gone for several months after the nerf to Call to Arms, and Odd Paladin was in a pretty bad spot when Odd Warrior was popular, Druid was a playable class and Even Warlock a strong ladder deck. Whatever you have in mind to "kill" one of these decks "once and forever" is likely an overshoot and unwarranted. The rotation will force both decks into a new direction that may or may not be viable against the competition. As for Wild, Even Paladin is not very good and Odd Paladin in good company of many other extremely powerful decks.
The existence of Genn and Baku is not "limiting design space" either. The design space for Hearthstone is far from too limited, even by conservative standards, and it won't be for quite some time. Team 5 only likes to pull that excuse when they want to remove some Basic and Classic cards out of spite, or when they reconsider just how busted a combo could be in Wild that they introduced anyway.
But you can very safely print new cards for Paladin without necessarily strengthening Even or Odd decks. Murloc Paladin, for example, would likely never go Even or Odd, because the deck needs both even and odd costed cards to do well.
Now I don't have a source for this but as for why the meta is mainly aggro, I think depends more on the playerbase than team 5's desicions. Many players don't have a lot of time to play and then turns to aggro. You accomplish more by playing 2 5-minute games with an aggressive deck than 1 10-minute game as a control deck. Especially considering both options should have about the same chance to win.
No I don't think so that meta is mainly aggro due to the playerbase. It is a card design choice of developers to let the playerbase choose for mainly aggro. You can't blame the masses for card design politics as much as you can't blame Marcus Aurelius to abolish arena fights, while his son Commedus reinstated it (with a huge approval of the masses).
HS is not grassroots, it is top down.
I am not blaming the masses for card design. This has nothing to do with card design, as Kaladin said earlier, this has to do with game design. The game design is beneficial for aggro, thus people play aggro. In fact Blizzard have not pushed an aggresive meta since MSoG, they saw how that went and stopped doing it. Please pin point recent card design pushing aggro.
Completely opposite to this we have Commodus reinstating arena fights. Noone can blame the masses of ancient Rome for that nor can you blame them for wanting to be entertained. An emperor as deluded and insane as Commodus needed the arena fights for various reasons; it was the best and easiest way of making the people feel "involved" in the world around them and entertaining them, so they are not bored as that lessens the chance of rebellion. Apart from that, arena fights was a good way of seeing how popular you were ad regent. How does the crowd react to a thumb up or a thumbs down? How do they behave when you speak? If they boo, you probably need to do something in their favor.
The masses using the system to their benefit =/= Authority using the system to their benefit.
Now I don't have a source for this but as for why the meta is mainly aggro, I think depends more on the playerbase than team 5's desicions. Many players don't have a lot of time to play and then turns to aggro. You accomplish more by playing 2 5-minute games with an aggressive deck than 1 10-minute game as a control deck. Especially considering both options should have about the same chance to win.
No I don't think so that meta is mainly aggro due to the playerbase. It is a card design choice of developers to let the playerbase choose for mainly aggro. You can't blame the masses for card design politics as much as you can't blame Marcus Aurelius to abolish arena fights, while his son Commedus reinstated it (with a huge approval of the masses).
HS is not grassroots, it is top down.
Again with the outrageous and baseless claims.
Source?
.......you're asking me to provide a source to prove your claim is baseless?
I already did that, check the youtube Q/A with Ben Brode I posted.
Or if you're asking me to provide a source for the outrageous and baseless claim, it's you. You said that.
posts #41, #49.
Again, what do you want? My source is the actual game developer. Your source is just an opinion. A salty one at that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
Now I don't have a source for this but as for why the meta is mainly aggro, I think depends more on the playerbase than team 5's desicions. Many players don't have a lot of time to play and then turns to aggro. You accomplish more by playing 2 5-minute games with an aggressive deck than 1 10-minute game as a control deck. Especially considering both options should have about the same chance to win.
No I don't think so that meta is mainly aggro due to the playerbase. It is a card design choice of developers to let the playerbase choose for mainly aggro. You can't blame the masses for card design politics as much as you can't blame Marcus Aurelius to abolish arena fights, while his son Commedus reinstated it (with a huge approval of the masses).
HS is not grassroots, it is top down.
I am not blaming the masses for card design. This has nothing to do with card design, as Kaladin said earlier, this has to do with game design. The game design is beneficial for aggro, thus people play aggro. In fact Blizzard have not pushed an aggresive meta since MSoG, they saw how that went and stopped doing it. Please pin point recent card design pushing aggro.
Completely opposite to this we have Commodus reinstating arena fights. Noone can blame the masses of ancient Rome for that nor can you blame them for wanting to be entertained. An emperor as deluded and insane as Commodus needed the arena fights for various reasons; it was the best and easiest way of making the people feel "involved" in the world around them and entertaining them, so they are not bored as that lessens the chance of rebellion. Apart from that, arena fights was a good way of seeing how popular you were ad regent. How does the crowd react to a thumb up or a thumbs down? How do they behave when you speak? If they boo, you probably need to do something in their favor.
The masses using the system to their benefit =/= Authority using the system to their benefit.
Finally a reasonable respons. But don't blame game design when card design ensures the dominance of aggressive decks by printing BBCSWD-cards. As a result OTK is the opposite, finally developers wished for constructed polarized win condition - meta.
As noted the top tier meta is not constructed by the community. They are just executioners what is thought out up front. It may feel and seem so, but the strength of card design politics is the cunningness of developers to make you think the community makes the meta.
Now I don't have a source for this but as for why the meta is mainly aggro, I think depends more on the playerbase than team 5's desicions. Many players don't have a lot of time to play and then turns to aggro. You accomplish more by playing 2 5-minute games with an aggressive deck than 1 10-minute game as a control deck. Especially considering both options should have about the same chance to win.
No I don't think so that meta is mainly aggro due to the playerbase. It is a card design choice of developers to let the playerbase choose for mainly aggro. You can't blame the masses for card design politics as much as you can't blame Marcus Aurelius to abolish arena fights, while his son Commedus reinstated it (with a huge approval of the masses).
HS is not grassroots, it is top down.
Again with the outrageous and baseless claims.
Source?
.......you're asking me to provide a source to prove your claim is baseless?
I already did that, check the youtube Q/A with Ben Brode I posted.
Or if you're asking me to provide a source for the outrageous and baseless claim, it's you. You said that.
posts #41, #49.
Again, what do you want? My source is the actual game developer. Your source is just an opinion. A salty one at that.
What do I want? For you not be that gullible and start thinking for yourself instead of some 'game developer' do the thinking for you.
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We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
Now I don't have a source for this but as for why the meta is mainly aggro, I think depends more on the playerbase than team 5's desicions. Many players don't have a lot of time to play and then turns to aggro. You accomplish more by playing 2 5-minute games with an aggressive deck than 1 10-minute game as a control deck. Especially considering both options should have about the same chance to win.
No I don't think so that meta is mainly aggro due to the playerbase. It is a card design choice of developers to let the playerbase choose for mainly aggro. You can't blame the masses for card design politics as much as you can't blame Marcus Aurelius to abolish arena fights, while his son Commedus reinstated it (with a huge approval of the masses).
HS is not grassroots, it is top down.
I am not blaming the masses for card design. This has nothing to do with card design, as Kaladin said earlier, this has to do with game design. The game design is beneficial for aggro, thus people play aggro. In fact Blizzard have not pushed an aggresive meta since MSoG, they saw how that went and stopped doing it. Please pin point recent card design pushing aggro.
Completely opposite to this we have Commodus reinstating arena fights. Noone can blame the masses of ancient Rome for that nor can you blame them for wanting to be entertained. An emperor as deluded and insane as Commodus needed the arena fights for various reasons; it was the best and easiest way of making the people feel "involved" in the world around them and entertaining them, so they are not bored as that lessens the chance of rebellion. Apart from that, arena fights was a good way of seeing how popular you were ad regent. How does the crowd react to a thumb up or a thumbs down? How do they behave when you speak? If they boo, you probably need to do something in their favor.
The masses using the system to their benefit =/= Authority using the system to their benefit.
Finally a reasonable respons. But don't blame game design when card design ensures the dominance of aggressive decks by printing BBCSWD-cards. As a result OTK is the opposite, finally developers wished for constructed polarized win condition - meta.
As noted the top tier meta is not constructed by the community. They are just executioners what is thought out up front. It may feel and seem so, but the strength of card design politics is the cunningness of developers to make you think the community makes the meta.
Hearthstone favors aggro compared to other TCGs. The fact that the attacker chooses the defender makes you able to continously go face, then end games quickly. Combined with the fact that aggro decks are usually cheap and rather simple to play makes them attactive to especially player with limited resources like f2p players and players with minimal time to spend on the game.
The top of meta is decided by the player base. People discover what is strong, then play that. Then people discover effective counters and starts to play that.
Worth noting is also the fact that the meta has not always been dominated by aggro (Druid and Cubelock meta).
Currently this thread really just seem like a bunch of unjustified conspiracy theories getting thrown around tbh.
You can't expect Blizzard to simply nerf the whole archtype, because if they do, a lot of people will be pissed off, and it's really hard to try to balance it out. Level Up! was a really important card in the deck, so hitting that was still a very good move. Nerfs will come eventually, and if you really hate the deck that much, run a deck that can counter it, but prepare to get run over by anything that isn't Paladin.
Also stop making these threads. They're totally unnecessary.
Hearthstone favors aggro compared to other TCGs. The fact that the attacker chooses the defender makes you able to continously go face, then end games quickly. Combined with the fact that aggro decks are usually cheap and rather simple to play makes them attactive to especially player with limited resources like f2p players and players with minimal time to spend on the game.
Do you think or reread what you write? 'Hearthstone favors aggro compared to other TCGs' If that is the case it is a developers card design choice, NOT game design. Wonder why in the world you even think that they print cards just at random, with no reason at all, as long as it is question-aggressive and let the community sort out the decks. Do you really think developers are that stupid?
The fact that HS is a question game doesn't explain why answers are deliberately insufficient. That is also a card design choice. It also doesn't explain why questions should be enhanced by Burn, Buffs, Chargers, Summon, Weapons and Discover cards (BBCSWD).
That HS is a question game is just an interpretation for its aggressive state. You could also argue that it needs more balance between questions and answers.
The top of meta is decided by the player base. People discover what is strong, then play that. Then people discover effective counters and starts to play that.
Who said that? Some game developers on youtube? If I say that the meta is not decided but executed, that is not a conspiracy theory but a reasonable assumption that you and all the fanboys alike might not favor, but point to card designers thinking what kind of meta they want to be constructed for various beneficial reasons (identifying possible nerfs, enhancing pack selling, marketing etc.) Do you really think designers are that stupid that they really don't assess or want to know how that meta will develop up front and don't want to steer that?
Worth noting is also the fact that the meta has not always been dominated by aggro (Druid and Cubelock meta).
Right on, true but other meta share the same polarized win condition mechanic: Kill you as fast as possible vs. If you fail you are dead by default.
Is it really so difficult to slow down the game, raise, the skill floor, diversify win conditions, let skill decided the game?
"Look at the meta" is not evidence. You are paranoid.
Let's look at actual facts. Here's former game developer Ben Brode answering, "Are there any cool card combos players have found that you never expected from testing?"
https://youtu.be/-n8T0kuLRzA?t=160
edit: Question is at the 2:40 mark.
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T5 devs give much information on social media, stream, that's according to this source atleast: https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com. You might actually find that google answers a lot of your question.
Here is the answer to question 2: https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Card_changes.
Another thing worth noting is that expansions are actually created a lot of time in advance fx. Boomsday were finished just as WW released, meaning that Blizzard don't actually know how the meta will be affected, thus nerfs happen after the expansion is released.
Source: https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Expansion
Now I don't have a source for this but as for why the meta is mainly aggro, I think depends more on the playerbase than team 5's desicions. Many players don't have a lot of time to play and then turns to aggro. You accomplish more by playing 2 5-minute games with an aggressive deck than 1 10-minute game as a control deck. Especially considering both options should have about the same chance to win.
lol what more do you want, real live Ben Brode, in person, being asked this question under a lie detector?
edit:
@minibassada
The meta has always been and will always be driven by aggro decks, not because of the card sets or because "T5 specifically wants aggro to dominate/hates control," but because of the game design itself. The player attacking chooses the defenders (unlike MTG), so Hearthstone will always be a "questions first" game.
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So, as ever most of your points are just poor however this one was particularly jarring for it's wrongness. You do realise that the movie Gladiator and the TV Show Spartacus are just a fantastical view on how Rome worked and not very historically accurate don't you?
So whilst I can't prove or disprove what the Roman rulers knew in advance it doesn't take much research to find the origins of Gladiatorial combat and how that evolved over centuries into the grand games people associate with the Colloseum. The rulers didn't just have a whim that this would be a good way to control the masses, it had nothing to do with any of that it started as a way to worship and appease their gods during funeral rites and grew from there.
Arguing on the internet is like playing chess with a pigeon. You may be good at chess, but the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces down, take a shit on the table, and strut around like its victorious.
You do know that I said "and refine" right?
I completely agree. It might have been unclear what I meant in my previous post. I'm aware that T5 does not push aggro, in fact I think Blizzard have been toning their aggressive cards down, while printing some super solid control tools. The fact that HS is a "questions game" is indeed profitable for aggro by making you able to end games very quickly, mean you reach accomplishments fast than you likely would by playing a control deck and just by reading posts on sites like this one, I'm aware that a lot of players don't have a lot of time to play, making aggro decks much more attractive to play. Apart from that aggro decks are usually cheap, shares a lot of cards and often requires less resource management than other archetypes.
Top paladin decks are Odd Paladin, Even Paladin, Uther OTK Paladin. These decks are totally different from each other and share only few cards between each other. None of these decks feel oppressive or bad to lose, OTK paladin can be a little oppressive against Control decks but it's fine.
So yes, Paladin has a many different decks at tier 1 but these decks are very different and are easily counterable. I don't see any reason to nerf Paladin.
Again with the outrageous and baseless claims.
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Aggro decks :- Odd Rogue, Beast Hunter, Odd Paladin.
Midrange decks :- Even Paladin, Even Warlock, Spell Hunter, Secret Hunter, Deathrattle Hunter, Even Shaman.
Combo decks :- Clone Priest, OTK Paladin.
Control decks :- Control Priest, Odd Warrior, Big Spell Mage.
I don't see a "mainly aggro" meta.
.......you're asking me to provide a source to prove your claim is baseless?
I already did that, check the youtube Q/A with Ben Brode I posted.
Or if you're asking me to provide a source for the outrageous and baseless claim, it's you. You said that.
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FFS, just wait 3 months and almost every deck you see on ladder right now, including every single Paladin deck, will be outright gone or changes so much it is pure speculation right now whether the class would even survive.
Paladin is far from invincible, save for the 2 turns they play Time Out!. They have a few good archetypes right now, which is fine. A class is allowed to have more than one working archetype, and it is good when they do, especially when they are so different they have not a single card in common, as it is the case with Odd and Even Paladin.
Neither of these archetypes is immune to nerfs or rotations or meta shifts as several periods since the release of Witchwood showed. Even Paladin was gone for several months after the nerf to Call to Arms, and Odd Paladin was in a pretty bad spot when Odd Warrior was popular, Druid was a playable class and Even Warlock a strong ladder deck. Whatever you have in mind to "kill" one of these decks "once and forever" is likely an overshoot and unwarranted. The rotation will force both decks into a new direction that may or may not be viable against the competition. As for Wild, Even Paladin is not very good and Odd Paladin in good company of many other extremely powerful decks.
The existence of Genn and Baku is not "limiting design space" either. The design space for Hearthstone is far from too limited, even by conservative standards, and it won't be for quite some time. Team 5 only likes to pull that excuse when they want to remove some Basic and Classic cards out of spite, or when they reconsider just how busted a combo could be in Wild that they introduced anyway.
But you can very safely print new cards for Paladin without necessarily strengthening Even or Odd decks. Murloc Paladin, for example, would likely never go Even or Odd, because the deck needs both even and odd costed cards to do well.
I am not blaming the masses for card design. This has nothing to do with card design, as Kaladin said earlier, this has to do with game design. The game design is beneficial for aggro, thus people play aggro. In fact Blizzard have not pushed an aggresive meta since MSoG, they saw how that went and stopped doing it. Please pin point recent card design pushing aggro.
Completely opposite to this we have Commodus reinstating arena fights. Noone can blame the masses of ancient Rome for that nor can you blame them for wanting to be entertained. An emperor as deluded and insane as Commodus needed the arena fights for various reasons; it was the best and easiest way of making the people feel "involved" in the world around them and entertaining them, so they are not bored as that lessens the chance of rebellion. Apart from that, arena fights was a good way of seeing how popular you were ad regent. How does the crowd react to a thumb up or a thumbs down? How do they behave when you speak? If they boo, you probably need to do something in their favor.
The masses using the system to their benefit =/= Authority using the system to their benefit.
Again, what do you want? My source is the actual game developer. Your source is just an opinion. A salty one at that.
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Finally a reasonable respons. But don't blame game design when card design ensures the dominance of aggressive decks by printing BBCSWD-cards. As a result OTK is the opposite, finally developers wished for constructed polarized win condition - meta.
As noted the top tier meta is not constructed by the community. They are just executioners what is thought out up front. It may feel and seem so, but the strength of card design politics is the cunningness of developers to make you think the community makes the meta.
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
What do I want? For you not be that gullible and start thinking for yourself instead of some 'game developer' do the thinking for you.
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
Hearthstone favors aggro compared to other TCGs. The fact that the attacker chooses the defender makes you able to continously go face, then end games quickly. Combined with the fact that aggro decks are usually cheap and rather simple to play makes them attactive to especially player with limited resources like f2p players and players with minimal time to spend on the game.
The top of meta is decided by the player base. People discover what is strong, then play that. Then people discover effective counters and starts to play that.
Worth noting is also the fact that the meta has not always been dominated by aggro (Druid and Cubelock meta).
Currently this thread really just seem like a bunch of unjustified conspiracy theories getting thrown around tbh.
another day another lunatic thread.
I wonder if one could program a bot that uaotmatically detects salt based on pattern recognition, because IT'S ALWAYS THE SAME.
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
I wonder if one could program a bot that automatically detects complaining over 'salt' based on pattern recognition, because IT'S ALWAYS THE SAME.
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
You can't expect Blizzard to simply nerf the whole archtype, because if they do, a lot of people will be pissed off, and it's really hard to try to balance it out. Level Up! was a really important card in the deck, so hitting that was still a very good move. Nerfs will come eventually, and if you really hate the deck that much, run a deck that can counter it, but prepare to get run over by anything that isn't Paladin.
Also stop making these threads. They're totally unnecessary.
Do you think or reread what you write? 'Hearthstone favors aggro compared to other TCGs' If that is the case it is a developers card design choice, NOT game design. Wonder why in the world you even think that they print cards just at random, with no reason at all, as long as it is question-aggressive and let the community sort out the decks. Do you really think developers are that stupid?
The fact that HS is a question game doesn't explain why answers are deliberately insufficient. That is also a card design choice. It also doesn't explain why questions should be enhanced by Burn, Buffs, Chargers, Summon, Weapons and Discover cards (BBCSWD).
That HS is a question game is just an interpretation for its aggressive state. You could also argue that it needs more balance between questions and answers.
Who said that? Some game developers on youtube? If I say that the meta is not decided but executed, that is not a conspiracy theory but a reasonable assumption that you and all the fanboys alike might not favor, but point to card designers thinking what kind of meta they want to be constructed for various beneficial reasons (identifying possible nerfs, enhancing pack selling, marketing etc.) Do you really think designers are that stupid that they really don't assess or want to know how that meta will develop up front and don't want to steer that?
Right on, true but other meta share the same polarized win condition mechanic: Kill you as fast as possible vs. If you fail you are dead by default.
Is it really so difficult to slow down the game, raise, the skill floor, diversify win conditions, let skill decided the game?
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.