Found a neat interaction with Hakkar, the Soulflayer + Prince Liam and got right to building the deck. Before this expansion Control Paladin didn't have any good win conditions to beat heavy control decks and Mecha'thun, but now that all changes with this combo.
Open for suggestions to changes on the shell of this deck.
And I would just like to apologize to those that I may have antagonized after helping me with suggestions, I just got flustered from some posts telling me to cut the Hakkar combo and didn't read carefully what people were saying after all that.
Great idea, but u shoild work on your list. Shirvallah won't work here, also Shellfighter and Taskmaster's aren't best picks.
Well you can't say that for certain since have yet to test it and taskmaster is good for paladin especially with Call to Arms to help in early stages of the game which Pally has very little options for. Control Pally back in the day always ran Zombie Chow so I don't see why it's a bad pick here.
Call to arms for all the 2 and below drops? lifesteal/taunt/divine package for Corpsetaker? The snail for snapjaw? (which can be fetched with Call to arms) and if hakkar gets silenced and doesn't die that is what Zola is for, to try again. As wel there are some good cards to copy like Zilliax, stonehill defender or potentially Tirion/Tarim off of it, potentially Shirvallah, another Kangor for your heals and the rest of the deck is just stand alone good cards for control paladin.
Also a deck with a bunch of spells is not worth it just for Shirvallah, outside of a Holy Wrath deck. I think this deck has enough spells that are fairly high cost to get Shirvallah at least down to 10 cost. All it takes is double Call to Arms or Spikeridged steed + a equality consecrate to get there and I think that's fine. for 7 damage + 7 heals and a decent sized minion on board.
Edit: Also just realized Snapjaw is pretty good with a y taunt minion and this decks has LOADS of them.
I don't understand its a basic control paladin shell but with liam and Soulflayer, snail and snapjaw combo... it doesn't need to be refined maybe couple cuts here and there but the way it sounds you guys telling me to forgo the whole corpsetaker package (which is standard for control pally) Taskmaster (which is a god-send for control pally) and the call to arms package which is stronger now and pulls snail for snapjaw? like what do you want me to do? :/ I'm not trying to make a meta-defining deck or whatever. How about you give me an idea then of what you think needs to be changed instead of just telling me "it needs to be refined" cuz it just seems to me that besides looking at Prince Liam combo you all think the rest of the deck is crap when I thought hard on this deck and tried to get enough cards for the synergies to work.
I disagree about Geist comments but I do worry about what your win condition will be if Hakkar get silenced and then immeditately killed. What about doing Da Undatakah instead of - or in addition to - Zola and adding in another deathrattle (maybe Tirion)?
Its hard to evaluate theorycrafts, especially when you have cards that people have very different opinions on like Snapjaw Shellfighter. We also haven't seen a good control paladin deck since Ungoro's Elemental package, so I'm not even sure what a modern Control Paladin should look like.
One problem I see is that its going to take a really long time to use your legendaries. Having Prince Liam and Hakkar unplayable before the combo hurts against aggro, and Shirvallah, the Tiger seems to take a long time to activate as well.
I really like the concept though, and it does seem like it would be a good counter to Mechathun decks.
Leaving aside discussions of the deck concept being good or not, I agree with previous commenters in that it can be refined.
My take would be:
-2x Stubborn Gastropod, +2x Wild Pyromancer. Gastropod is shitty on it's own, the snapjaw+gastropod combo is not reliable and having it pulled from CtA is not that great. Pyro has a better body and as we all know synergizes with equality, but also with flash of light and consec.
-2x Saronite Taskmaster +2x Righteous Protector. Because you're playing control, I'd favor the more defensive option. It's better in the late game and won't spawn an 0/3 with taunt for your opponent, which will protect their minions. I could give you a pass on this one though.
-1x Snapjaw Shellfighter, +1x Acidic Swamp Ooze. Snapjaw isn't very reliable because you're not going to have a wide board most of the time (you're a control deck, and CtA doesn't fix the issue). Besides, 8 minions is the ideal number for CtA to be consistent, and ooze is both a good body and has a useful effect when not pulled by CtA.
Hmm yeah I think I can cut saronite for righteous protector but I absolutely will not cut the snapjaw and snail combo because I want to try it.
And also I can't believe I didn't think of Da Undatakah will cut Zola for that and think of some other deathrattles to add
Stonehill Defender basically is Tarim lol I think people over estimate the card in a control deck its very strong yeah but not so much in a control build and we've got equality consecrate for the big boards and stubborn gastropod is pretty much big card removal I think it's fine on it's own too it's at least a taunt for aggro and trades 1 for 1
The problem with your combo is that Prince Liam is practically a dead card until you draw, play, then kill Hakkar. Two Taskmasters - assuming you don't draw either/both of them before you play Liam - is not good enough. And even if you get your Corrupted Blood and Liam it, so what? By the time you've pulled this off either aggro has killed you or non-Mecha'thun combo decks have killed you, so the blood won't really do much to your opponent, and you being up a random legendary or two is meaningless.
You might as well drop them and just run this as a midrange Healadin. As it stands right now it's a midrange Healadin with two completely garbage draws in it. If you're so scared of Mecha'thun then just run Mojomaster Zihi. You're a midrange deck and Shirvallah doesn't give two fucks about Zihi so that should work nicely.
I've already said this before this is not meant to be made for the meta and I will not just play a typical boring midrange or control paladin when I can try new things when the expansion hits. You are basically telling me to play a different deck after I want to try things and that is not very good advice.
You're playing a Control Paladin, so you need to add in 2x Wild Pyromancer. It's a little silly to say that you need to, but really it provides some much needed opportunities for full board clears that are just not as likely if you're relying solely on Equality + Consecration (not to mention he's cheaper than Consecration).
I'm not sold on Call to Arms in this deck. The deck only has 7 targets for it, and at least with the Saronite Taskmaster, I think you're going to want that in play well before turn 5. I guess spending 5 mana on it helps build toward Shirvallah, the Tiger, but I think you'll mostly pull very few cards and end up with at least one "5 mana draw and play one 1 drop" in too many games.
Prince Liam is a cool idea to fix Hakkar, the Soulflayer, but you need to be able to play him and get value out of him in games where you don't draw Hakkar, so you either need to cut him or add in more 1 drops.
Control Paladin's biggest problem in standard today is a lack of a win condition. I think what you have here is a nice shell for the deck, but if you're planning to win by grinding out your opponent, you'll need more long term value. Maybe Tirion Fordring + 2x Immortal Prelate + Da Undatakah to keep your deck full and to keep regaining a 5/3 weapon?
You're playing a Control Paladin, so you need to add in 2x Wild Pyromancer. It's a little silly to say that you need to, but really it provides some much needed opportunities for full board clears that are just not as likely if you're relying solely on Equality + Consecration (not to mention he's cheaper than Consecration).
I'm not sold on Call to Arms in this deck. The deck only has 7 targets for it, and at least with the Saronite Taskmaster, I think you're going to want that in play well before turn 5. I guess spending 5 mana on it helps build toward Shirvallah, the Tiger, but I think you'll mostly pull very few cards and end up with at least one "5 mana draw and play one 1 drop" in too many games.
If you're running Corpsetaker, then you probably want Tirion Fordring to increase your odds of getting buffs - right now your only buff cards are Zilliax and Crystalsmith Kangor, so a third option wouldn't hurt.
Prince Liam is a cool idea to fix Hakkar, the Soulflayer, but you need to be able to play him and get value out of him in games where you don't draw Hakkar, so you either need to cut him or add in more 1 drops.
Control Paladin's biggest problem in standard today is a lack of a win condition. I think what you have here is a nice shell for the deck, but if you're planning to win by grinding out your opponent, you'll need more long term value. Maybe Tirion Fordring + 2x Immortal Prelate + Da Undatakah to keep your deck full and to keep regaining a 5/3 weapon?
1. Call to arms is also to fetch the snail for snapjaw not just for shirvallah and the sake of having 2 and less drops.
2. Control paladin normally runs corpsetaker and what I have for them is all that is needed, Tirion doesn't deserve a slot imo because stonehill basically is tirion but a decent taunt body for aggro and Uther is kinda the same purpose in that to stabilize and a 5/3 weapon.
3. One dead card isn't the end of the world.
4. The win condition is supposed to be Hakkar and that's the best you are gonna get for Control Paladin.
5. Immortal prelate require more buffs to be good and I will not cut important synergies for it. It's also not good enough as a 2 drop to fight against aggro. In most cases I think It's not gonna get the value and Immortal Prelate + Undatakah combo I think needs to be a very different deck for that to work.
I am sorry but I do not understand the mechanic at all when it comes to Da Undatak. If Hakkar gets silenced and killed, then Undatakah will not get the deathrattle effect?
The deathrattles that Da Undatakah acquires come from deathrattle minions that died, regardless of whether those deathrattle effects were triggered at the time.
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Found a neat interaction with Hakkar, the Soulflayer + Prince Liam and got right to building the deck. Before this expansion Control Paladin didn't have any good win conditions to beat heavy control decks and Mecha'thun, but now that all changes with this combo.
Open for suggestions to changes on the shell of this deck.
And I would just like to apologize to those that I may have antagonized after helping me with suggestions, I just got flustered from some posts telling me to cut the Hakkar combo and didn't read carefully what people were saying after all that.
Great idea, but u shoild work on your list. Shirvallah won't work here, also Shellfighter and Taskmaster's aren't best picks.
Looks fun, but will never work with Skulking Geist in Standard
Remember playing Control Shaman with Reincarnate shenanigans? No? It was fun, here's a refresher!
Well you can't say that for certain since have yet to test it and taskmaster is good for paladin especially with Call to Arms to help in early stages of the game which Pally has very little options for. Control Pally back in the day always ran Zombie Chow so I don't see why it's a bad pick here.
But Skulking Geist is in very few decks right now and when the expansion drops it will probably see no play for awhile.
The Idea is there. But the deck list needs refining. It's hard to evaluate without first trying it though.
That’s actually great idea but if other control deck uses silence on Hakkar, you ded..
Btw your list doesn’t seem refined. It’s just bunch of stuff that doesn’t synergize but the primary idea of the deck is great.
Yeah, but if Hakkar becomes a thing it will be put in many decks as a tech card.
A bunch of stuff that doesn't synergize?
Call to arms for all the 2 and below drops? lifesteal/taunt/divine package for Corpsetaker? The snail for snapjaw? (which can be fetched with Call to arms) and if hakkar gets silenced and doesn't die that is what Zola is for, to try again. As wel there are some good cards to copy like Zilliax, stonehill defender or potentially Tirion/Tarim off of it, potentially Shirvallah, another Kangor for your heals and the rest of the deck is just stand alone good cards for control paladin.
Also a deck with a bunch of spells is not worth it just for Shirvallah, outside of a Holy Wrath deck. I think this deck has enough spells that are fairly high cost to get Shirvallah at least down to 10 cost. All it takes is double Call to Arms or Spikeridged steed + a equality consecrate to get there and I think that's fine. for 7 damage + 7 heals and a decent sized minion on board.
Edit: Also just realized Snapjaw is pretty good with a y taunt minion and this decks has LOADS of them.
I don't understand its a basic control paladin shell but with liam and Soulflayer, snail and snapjaw combo... it doesn't need to be refined maybe couple cuts here and there but the way it sounds you guys telling me to forgo the whole corpsetaker package (which is standard for control pally) Taskmaster (which is a god-send for control pally) and the call to arms package which is stronger now and pulls snail for snapjaw? like what do you want me to do? :/ I'm not trying to make a meta-defining deck or whatever. How about you give me an idea then of what you think needs to be changed instead of just telling me "it needs to be refined" cuz it just seems to me that besides looking at Prince Liam combo you all think the rest of the deck is crap when I thought hard on this deck and tried to get enough cards for the synergies to work.
I disagree about Geist comments but I do worry about what your win condition will be if Hakkar get silenced and then immeditately killed. What about doing Da Undatakah instead of - or in addition to - Zola and adding in another deathrattle (maybe Tirion)?
Its hard to evaluate theorycrafts, especially when you have cards that people have very different opinions on like Snapjaw Shellfighter. We also haven't seen a good control paladin deck since Ungoro's Elemental package, so I'm not even sure what a modern Control Paladin should look like.
One problem I see is that its going to take a really long time to use your legendaries. Having Prince Liam and Hakkar unplayable before the combo hurts against aggro, and Shirvallah, the Tiger seems to take a long time to activate as well.
I really like the concept though, and it does seem like it would be a good counter to Mechathun decks.
Unpopular opinion: Rogue is OP
Leaving aside discussions of the deck concept being good or not, I agree with previous commenters in that it can be refined.
My take would be:
-2x Stubborn Gastropod, +2x Wild Pyromancer. Gastropod is shitty on it's own, the snapjaw+gastropod combo is not reliable and having it pulled from CtA is not that great. Pyro has a better body and as we all know synergizes with equality, but also with flash of light and consec.
-2x Saronite Taskmaster +2x Righteous Protector. Because you're playing control, I'd favor the more defensive option. It's better in the late game and won't spawn an 0/3 with taunt for your opponent, which will protect their minions. I could give you a pass on this one though.
-1x Snapjaw Shellfighter, +1x Acidic Swamp Ooze. Snapjaw isn't very reliable because you're not going to have a wide board most of the time (you're a control deck, and CtA doesn't fix the issue). Besides, 8 minions is the ideal number for CtA to be consistent, and ooze is both a good body and has a useful effect when not pulled by CtA.
-1x Zola the Gorgon, +1x Sunkeeper Tarim. Tarim is too good to not be run and zola isn't necessary.
Wether the Corpsetakers and Shirvallah, the Tiger are good enough in this deck or not I can't really tell yet.
Thank you for actual suggestions guys it's a lot more helpful than just saying my deck needs to be refined
Hmm yeah I think I can cut saronite for righteous protector but I absolutely will not cut the snapjaw and snail combo because I want to try it.
And also I can't believe I didn't think of Da Undatakah will cut Zola for that and think of some other deathrattles to add
Stonehill Defender basically is Tarim lol I think people over estimate the card in a control deck its very strong yeah but not so much in a control build and we've got equality consecrate for the big boards and stubborn gastropod is pretty much big card removal I think it's fine on it's own too it's at least a taunt for aggro and trades 1 for 1
I've already said this before this is not meant to be made for the meta and I will not just play a typical boring midrange or control paladin when I can try new things when the expansion hits. You are basically telling me to play a different deck after I want to try things and that is not very good advice.
You're playing a Control Paladin, so you need to add in 2x Wild Pyromancer. It's a little silly to say that you need to, but really it provides some much needed opportunities for full board clears that are just not as likely if you're relying solely on Equality + Consecration (not to mention he's cheaper than Consecration).
I'm not sold on Call to Arms in this deck. The deck only has 7 targets for it, and at least with the Saronite Taskmaster, I think you're going to want that in play well before turn 5. I guess spending 5 mana on it helps build toward Shirvallah, the Tiger, but I think you'll mostly pull very few cards and end up with at least one "5 mana draw and play one 1 drop" in too many games.
If you're running Corpsetaker, then you probably want Tirion Fordring to increase your odds of getting buffs - right now your only buff cards are Zilliax, Shirvallah, the Tiger, and Crystalsmith Kangor, so another option wouldn't hurt.
Prince Liam is a cool idea to fix Hakkar, the Soulflayer, but you need to be able to play him and get value out of him in games where you don't draw Hakkar, so you either need to cut him or add in more 1 drops.
Control Paladin's biggest problem in standard today is a lack of a win condition. I think what you have here is a nice shell for the deck, but if you're planning to win by grinding out your opponent, you'll need more long term value. Maybe Tirion Fordring + 2x Immortal Prelate + Da Undatakah to keep your deck full and to keep regaining a 5/3 weapon?
1. Call to arms is also to fetch the snail for snapjaw not just for shirvallah and the sake of having 2 and less drops.
2. Control paladin normally runs corpsetaker and what I have for them is all that is needed, Tirion doesn't deserve a slot imo because stonehill basically is tirion but a decent taunt body for aggro and Uther is kinda the same purpose in that to stabilize and a 5/3 weapon.
3. One dead card isn't the end of the world.
4. The win condition is supposed to be Hakkar and that's the best you are gonna get for Control Paladin.
5. Immortal prelate require more buffs to be good and I will not cut important synergies for it. It's also not good enough as a 2 drop to fight against aggro. In most cases I think It's not gonna get the value and Immortal Prelate + Undatakah combo I think needs to be a very different deck for that to work.
This deck is like achieving too many goals. I suggest you cut Shirvallah, the Tiger, Stubborn Gastropod, Saronite Taskmaster and Snapjaw Shellfighter as these cards in my opinion are not great. I think adding High Priest Thekal would be much better. Then add a few more Taunt minions.
The deathrattles that Da Undatakah acquires come from deathrattle minions that died, regardless of whether those deathrattle effects were triggered at the time.