I'm a paladin fan, (most of control pallys) i'm trying to find a new way ( read deck) to paladin in meta scene next xpac, looking all theorycrafts so far, (pala had almost all reveals already), none seems good enough to make a viable metadeck, but memes with 5 pieces otk combo with holy wrath or so.
Pala got a few really good cards, but viability of a control deck isn't looking that good to me, not even close to be competitive with another controls. is there some hope?
Would you doubt if I tell you that people will play Paladin with some new cards on the first week, then after that everybody will be back playing Odd Paladin?
Would you doubt if I tell you that people will play Paladin with some new cards on the first week, then after that everybody will be back playing Odd Paladin?
that's what i fear.
don't you guys think Spirit of the Tiger will enable some new spell pala decks? Buff or not Buff
I'm really excited for the new spell paladin support, since one of my best decks is my spell paladin deck. The Shirvallah and the Spirit of the Tiger cards, I think it's likely that this could further improve the way the game is played.
You can check the healadin deck I posted in my profile (mid range). Kinda outdated a little but you can always replace giggling with Zilliax. It may helps you to spend sometimes to get used to the healadin mechanic for the new expansion. That is the architype I have been playing since Witchwood but only managed to reach LG twice in Boomsday. I didn't bother to update it after the nerf because the new expansion incoming, it is better to wait and make an entire new thing.
I think the new expansion may push healadin to tier 2 (up from 3)
Control/Combo Pala still very bad and may be tier 2 at most. It may reach tier 1 when the expansion comes but fall off right after a few weeks.
Odd pala and Even Pala may fall off if overkill becomes a thing
That being said, having multiple decks at tier 2 is not a bad spot for paladin (worst case). You can play whatever you want then switch when you get bored without having to worry about win rate.
I think the paladin legendary champion is one of the best designed cards Blizzard has released in a while. I don't think control paladin is going to break the meta but I think it's unfair to say they have only printed meme cards for the class.
If all classed get 5 odd and 5 even cards the two unrevealed common should be even. I hope for good 2 mana spells. If yes i might try an even contol/big minion paladin. I used such a meme deck to go from R10 to 4 with ease ... then i got stopped quite harsh going down to 52% giving up on the legend grind .... I also have tested a strange fun deck using prismatic lense with liam. It did´t work well but i learned a lot from it and this might become useful now.
i'm pretty sure that they want to make paladin a value class but not necessarily a control one, tbh Blizzard did struggle with paladin's and shamman's identities and differentiations in the past since at some point both have been known as <<the other classs>> 2.0 or 0.5 but they've seen to find a way for paladin they're happy with, board centric value decks without removal, that use their own minions as removal, bh i'm far more worried about shamman, Blizz still doesn't seem too sure about what they want shamman to do, also some cards are being understimated, personally i believe that a keleseth spiteful Paladin build using A New Challenger... and Dinosize may appear
Im hoping we get to see some fun control paladin that is meta viable. Especially if healadin or buff paladin would work. Im scared that we didnt get any nice removal. Still we rely on 2 combo card, equality and consecrate...but maybe common cards could be some proper removal
It's not just Paladin. A lot of the cards from this set are just neat, maybe worth a try, but unlikely to change the game for now. What you should expect: The next meta will be very similar to this one, with some of the existing decks getting slightly changed and maybe one or two new ones popping up. And no, I don't think Control Paladin will be among them.
The real change happens with the first expansion 2019, when all the insane stuff from last year rotates. As of right now, there are very few decks that keep even half their cards with the rotation. Almost every deck you see on ladder right now will disappear entirely or drastically change.
THEN, you can start asking how good the Paladin cards are. Much like with Boomsday Project, the real quality of Rastakhan will only show next year, when the power level of Standard drops significantly. And honestly, I think in a new environment, even Control Paladin might have a chance with more healing/survival tools than most other classes. Thekal + Healing can make a huge difference for the game, especially with cards that benefit from healing. They have no real win condition, but the same goes for most other classes. No more infinite Zombeasts, no more cubed and resurrected Void Lords and Doomguards, WAY less armor for Druid, no more infinite Shudderwock, no more infinite healing Water Elementals, just generally no Death Knights, WAY less board clears, etc. etc. Under these circumstances, good old Tirion and "pressing the button" can be a win condition again, when healing and armor gain are fairly limited for most classes and very few gamewinning combos and late game cards remain.
For the next expansion, no. It's gonna be the same old tempo based decks. As far as Pally goes, it just does not have anything to contest the kind of late game value that FLJ or DK Rexxar or BR Guldan or Hadronox can bring. Heal Paladin still lacks that. It's basically Odd Warrior - without Omega Assembly and without Dr Boom. Perhaps worse, because Odd Warrior at least does have Shield Slam, a reliable single target removal. This is why I expect Healadin to be midrangey, although I don't think it will muscle out Even decks. IF it sees play, it will be a few cards in Even Pally.
Even after the DKs rotate out, that actually weakens our current late game plans right now, since the DK was a decent late game removal card if nothing else(also kills off OTK Pally, which was a joke), and Lynessa/Galvadon are gone, plus Tarim. And yes other classes are weakened too, but Warrior still has Boom and Shaman still has Hagatha and it may not be feasible to go up against them.
I'm a paladin fan, (most of control pallys) i'm trying to find a new way ( read deck) to paladin in meta scene next xpac, looking all theorycrafts so far, (pala had almost all reveals already), none seems good enough to make a viable metadeck, but memes with 5 pieces otk combo with holy wrath or so.
Pala got a few really good cards, but viability of a control deck isn't looking that good to me, not even close to be competitive with another controls. is there some hope?
sorry 2nd language
Blizz hasn't revealed all the cards (nor from Paladin, neither from either classes) so we won't know if and how much Paladin will be viable.
They sure pushed some new stuff and that's remarkable. We'll see in a couple weeks
Would you doubt if I tell you that people will play Paladin with some new cards on the first week, then after that everybody will be back playing Odd Paladin?
that's what i fear.
don't you guys think Spirit of the Tiger will enable some new spell pala decks? Buff or not Buff
I'm really excited for the new spell paladin support, since one of my best decks is my spell paladin deck. The Shirvallah and the Spirit of the Tiger cards, I think it's likely that this could further improve the way the game is played.
You can check the healadin deck I posted in my profile (mid range). Kinda outdated a little but you can always replace giggling with Zilliax. It may helps you to spend sometimes to get used to the healadin mechanic for the new expansion. That is the architype I have been playing since Witchwood but only managed to reach LG twice in Boomsday. I didn't bother to update it after the nerf because the new expansion incoming, it is better to wait and make an entire new thing.
I think the new expansion may push healadin to tier 2 (up from 3)
Control/Combo Pala still very bad and may be tier 2 at most. It may reach tier 1 when the expansion comes but fall off right after a few weeks.
Odd pala and Even Pala may fall off if overkill becomes a thing
That being said, having multiple decks at tier 2 is not a bad spot for paladin (worst case). You can play whatever you want then switch when you get bored without having to worry about win rate.
I think the paladin legendary champion is one of the best designed cards Blizzard has released in a while. I don't think control paladin is going to break the meta but I think it's unfair to say they have only printed meme cards for the class.
If all classed get 5 odd and 5 even cards the two unrevealed common should be even. I hope for good 2 mana spells. If yes i might try an even contol/big minion paladin. I used such a meme deck to go from R10 to 4 with ease ... then i got stopped quite harsh going down to 52% giving up on the legend grind .... I also have tested a strange fun deck using prismatic lense with liam. It did´t work well but i learned a lot from it and this might become useful now.
i'm pretty sure that they want to make paladin a value class but not necessarily a control one, tbh Blizzard did struggle with paladin's and shamman's identities and differentiations in the past since at some point both have been known as <<the other classs>> 2.0 or 0.5 but they've seen to find a way for paladin they're happy with, board centric value decks without removal, that use their own minions as removal, bh i'm far more worried about shamman, Blizz still doesn't seem too sure about what they want shamman to do, also some cards are being understimated, personally i believe that a keleseth spiteful Paladin build using A New Challenger... and Dinosize may appear
I'm excited to play healadin and buffadin regardless of viability. I can finally wipe the dust off of sir annoy-o and get to hello-ing everyone.
That's Incredible!
Im hoping we get to see some fun control paladin that is meta viable. Especially if healadin or buff paladin would work. Im scared that we didnt get any nice removal. Still we rely on 2 combo card, equality and consecrate...but maybe common cards could be some proper removal
It's not just Paladin. A lot of the cards from this set are just neat, maybe worth a try, but unlikely to change the game for now. What you should expect: The next meta will be very similar to this one, with some of the existing decks getting slightly changed and maybe one or two new ones popping up. And no, I don't think Control Paladin will be among them.
The real change happens with the first expansion 2019, when all the insane stuff from last year rotates. As of right now, there are very few decks that keep even half their cards with the rotation. Almost every deck you see on ladder right now will disappear entirely or drastically change.
THEN, you can start asking how good the Paladin cards are. Much like with Boomsday Project, the real quality of Rastakhan will only show next year, when the power level of Standard drops significantly. And honestly, I think in a new environment, even Control Paladin might have a chance with more healing/survival tools than most other classes. Thekal + Healing can make a huge difference for the game, especially with cards that benefit from healing. They have no real win condition, but the same goes for most other classes. No more infinite Zombeasts, no more cubed and resurrected Void Lords and Doomguards, WAY less armor for Druid, no more infinite Shudderwock, no more infinite healing Water Elementals, just generally no Death Knights, WAY less board clears, etc. etc. Under these circumstances, good old Tirion and "pressing the button" can be a win condition again, when healing and armor gain are fairly limited for most classes and very few gamewinning combos and late game cards remain.
For the next expansion, no. It's gonna be the same old tempo based decks. As far as Pally goes, it just does not have anything to contest the kind of late game value that FLJ or DK Rexxar or BR Guldan or Hadronox can bring. Heal Paladin still lacks that. It's basically Odd Warrior - without Omega Assembly and without Dr Boom. Perhaps worse, because Odd Warrior at least does have Shield Slam, a reliable single target removal. This is why I expect Healadin to be midrangey, although I don't think it will muscle out Even decks. IF it sees play, it will be a few cards in Even Pally.
Even after the DKs rotate out, that actually weakens our current late game plans right now, since the DK was a decent late game removal card if nothing else(also kills off OTK Pally, which was a joke), and Lynessa/Galvadon are gone, plus Tarim. And yes other classes are weakened too, but Warrior still has Boom and Shaman still has Hagatha and it may not be feasible to go up against them.
Control HealPaladin with Holy Wrath and the Loa. There are some nice OTK combos you could play
Idk 25 dmg often won’t be enough to kill the opponent.
I believe Zalae said it best, when he looked at HealPaladin; Does this deal equally with aggro, and present threats like Evenlock? I doubt it.