To nerf odd paladin they need a card with the fallowing battlecry:Give your opponent a brain. Deathrattle:Teach them how it works and why they should begin using it.(I am not playing hs daily,but i played odd pally on a friend's account 2 3 times and is a mindless deck till rank 10 or even 5)
I was thinking that they simply need to change the hero power. Maybe something like "Summons one Silver Hand Recruit with Divine Shield, or +1/+0" or something.
A better option might be to summon a Silver Hand with 2/2 stats. That falls more into line with other powers such as Rogue or Druid. Multiple minions is often much more difficult to deal with than one single higher stat-ed minion.
It's NOT a 60% win rate deck. You need to look at Vicious Syndicate. Its in the 53 to 54% range regardless of rank. Good deck? Yes. Can it be countered. Yes? Does it need a nerf? NO.
What makes Vicious Syndicate better than HSReplay?
one way is that hsreplay is a much longer timeframe by default. If you pay then the data becomes very reliable, else you could be viewing stuff from like day 1 of expansion and stuff. Vicious syndicate is just 1 week at a time or maybe 2
It's NOT a 60% win rate deck. You need to look at Vicious Syndicate. Its in the 53 to 54% range regardless of rank. Good deck? Yes. Can it be countered. Yes? Does it need a nerf? NO.
What makes Vicious Syndicate better than HSReplay?
one way is that hsreplay is a much longer timeframe by default. If you pay then the data becomes very reliable, else you could be viewing stuff from like day 1 of expansion and stuff. Vicious syndicate is just 1 week at a time or maybe 2
Where is everyone looking? If you check https://hsreplay.net/meta/ you will see that it is set at last 7 days if you don't pay, so the timeframe for VS is as long or even longer. Also the highest deck is at 56.47%, not several decks at 60% which some people claim in this topic.
At the end I think it is a bit skewed because it takes data from people using a deck tracker and maybe those people have a higher win rate than people playing without a deck tracker, because they play a bit more serious. But hsreplay has a lot more data to work with than VS.
In the end I think you're best of using a bit of both. I think a big disadvantage of hsreplay is not being able to see data for certain ranks without paying, but I think people are hating a bit unfairly on hsreplay in this topic.
On topic: Odd paladin is a strong deck, maybe the best on the ladder right now. But nerfing every strong deck is a neverending story and a bad idea.
I thought it should be your choice of a 1/2 or 2/1 , maybe a 1/1 with shield would be adequate. I agree that Level Up! Rotation will be enough for standard
Odd Paladin does not need a nerf and there are plenty of decks that counter it. The strength of the deck comes from:
1) Low ranks. I've played it at low ranks to rank up fast, and once you reach a certain rank your WR drops significantly because people know how to play against it. 2) It punishes bad draws. If you don't draw anything to deal with them before t5 Level Up will ruin you. 3) Level Up (at least in standard). Solid card, not broken but it basically carries this archtype at the moment. Once it rotates Odd paladin will be A LOT worse - unless they get a replacement of course.
Taunt Druid beats Odd Paladin more often than not and since it also has a great matchup with Spell and Secret Hunter, if you can run it, you probably should.
Odd palla is not that OP dude. It's not that hard to win against
Thats why 60% winrate. Sure, pal.
An aggressive cheap deck that is pretty easy to play has a high winrate at the start of a new expansion and high winrate mostly comes from the lower ranks?
Blizzard should make a special stream lessons or youtube videos in which they explain the the only way hs should be played is with supa dupa 1000 IQ control/combo homebrewed decks and 30 minutes long match is a minimum time period that proves you're not braindead blah blah something etc.
Blizzard should make a special stream lessons or youtube videos in which they explain the the only way hs should be played is with supa dupa 1000 IQ control/combo homebrewed decks and 30 minutes long match is a minimum time period that proves you're not braindead blah blah something etc.
Blizzard should make a special stream lessons or youtube videos in which they explain the the only way hs should be played is with supa dupa 1000 IQ control/combo homebrewed decks and 30 minutes long match is a minimum time period that proves you're not braindead blah blah something etc.
It is a perfect deck to punish experimentation. Also, while people are countering hunters (spell in particular) Odd paladin has gotten great winrates under the radar.
Priests, Warriors and Warlocks with lots of aoe do a great job at countering them, so I don't think a nerf is needed.
The problem of the deck is not its winrate, it’s the enormously boring predictability of every game against it. It’s the fact that at every turn you know what the opponent’s play will be and most of the time you can’t do much about it. Actually, this is the “problem” plaguing all decks that have to deal with limited card pools such as most of odd/even decks and spell hunter. Furthermore, (most of) those decks require little to no skill to be played. Go figure why they get so much hate...
Your analysis of predicatbility of limited card pool decks is right on point, though that can actually be said about any refined top tier meta deck even those which don't have limitations on which type of cards can be included in them. As to said decks requiring no skill, I disagree, they still do. In fact, I'd argue that every single deck does. That said, it is certainly easier to climb with a tier 1 deck than a lower tier deck, but that will always be the case, no matter if the deck in question is of a control or aggro type.
it does need nerf in wild, nerfing quartermaster should do the job
Steward of Darkshire is the real problem. Shit is insane.
Sure, Wild odd pally is strong, but I haven't seen one in ages! Other top tier decks are also stronger, there are decks like jade druid and big priest, and there are amazing aoe cards like Maelstrom Portal and Dark Iron Skulker.
Ever since it's release, odd paladin has been a tier 1 deck, with close to a 60% win rate.
It's obvious that the nerf they did wasn't enough, as it hasn't bulged in dominance. It's not that it's unbeatable, but there are very few decks that can, even among control decks which are designed to counter fast tempo decks.
In your opinion, what can they do to nerf it further? Another problem is that with it being as dominant as it is, no other variants of paladin will rise until the next rotation, which is still over half a year away.
Im playing Even paladin since begining of November got to rank 1 last season all the paladins i encountered were mostly odd about 1-2 even and maybe 1-2 mech palas ,so my winrate against paladin which are almost all agains odd paladin games is above 70% .
Even Paladin is also Tear 1 ,and odd paladin is agressiv but has no removal , best case they discover a Tarim but thats it , quite a few decks can beat that
The reason Odd Paladin has 60% winrate right now is because it counters all the bandwagoners playing hunter decks. Another reason is because it is a really simple deck and easy to pilot, so players on all ranks will have pretty good results with it, because it is not that skill intensive deck. That's why generally simple aggressive decks will have a bigger winrate than other decks. And decks like say Combo Inner Fire priest have bad winrates, because a rank 15 players doesn't know how to play it well, while a top player can reach rank 1 legend with it.
Does Odd Paladin need nerf? Absolutely not. You want to nerf it? Then you can start hunter nerf threads already, cause if they nerf it, thats all you gonna see on ladder. Don't like odd paladin? Play Evenlock.
if they really wanted to nerf it, the upgraded hero power would be summon a single 2/2
the deck is obviously beatable, thats maybe not the problem, but the problem is that its been a tier 1 deck for three straight expansions now with no sign of relenting. Waiting a whole year for a meta shake up because 260 and some cards cant push out a single deck says a lot
A better option might be to summon a Silver Hand with 2/2 stats. That falls more into line with other powers such as Rogue or Druid.
Multiple minions is often much more difficult to deal with than one single higher stat-ed minion.
one way is that hsreplay is a much longer timeframe by default. If you pay then the data becomes very reliable, else you could be viewing stuff from like day 1 of expansion and stuff. Vicious syndicate is just 1 week at a time or maybe 2
Where is everyone looking? If you check https://hsreplay.net/meta/ you will see that it is set at last 7 days if you don't pay, so the timeframe for VS is as long or even longer. Also the highest deck is at 56.47%, not several decks at 60% which some people claim in this topic.
At the end I think it is a bit skewed because it takes data from people using a deck tracker and maybe those people have a higher win rate than people playing without a deck tracker, because they play a bit more serious. But hsreplay has a lot more data to work with than VS.
In the end I think you're best of using a bit of both. I think a big disadvantage of hsreplay is not being able to see data for certain ranks without paying, but I think people are hating a bit unfairly on hsreplay in this topic.
On topic: Odd paladin is a strong deck, maybe the best on the ladder right now. But nerfing every strong deck is a neverending story and a bad idea.
Steward of Darkshire is the real problem. Shit is insane.
I thought it should be your choice of a 1/2 or 2/1 , maybe a 1/1 with shield would be adequate. I agree that Level Up! Rotation will be enough for standard
Odd Paladin does not need a nerf and there are plenty of decks that counter it. The strength of the deck comes from:
1) Low ranks. I've played it at low ranks to rank up fast, and once you reach a certain rank your WR drops significantly because people know how to play against it.
2) It punishes bad draws. If you don't draw anything to deal with them before t5 Level Up will ruin you.
3) Level Up (at least in standard). Solid card, not broken but it basically carries this archtype at the moment. Once it rotates Odd paladin will be A LOT worse - unless they get a replacement of course.
Taunt Druid beats Odd Paladin more often than not and since it also has a great matchup with Spell and Secret Hunter, if you can run it, you probably should.
Thats why 60% winrate. Sure, pal.
--Alfi--
An aggressive cheap deck that is pretty easy to play has a high winrate at the start of a new expansion and high winrate mostly comes from the lower ranks?
HMMM THE DECK IS TOTALLY OP LETS NERF IT
Tried this before? Should work pretty well against Odd Pala.
If it stays that strong after rotation then it may need a nerf.
I want this to be my new signature! :D
It is a perfect deck to punish experimentation. Also, while people are countering hunters (spell in particular) Odd paladin has gotten great winrates under the radar.
Priests, Warriors and Warlocks with lots of aoe do a great job at countering them, so I don't think a nerf is needed.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Your analysis of predicatbility of limited card pool decks is right on point, though that can actually be said about any refined top tier meta deck even those which don't have limitations on which type of cards can be included in them. As to said decks requiring no skill, I disagree, they still do. In fact, I'd argue that every single deck does. That said, it is certainly easier to climb with a tier 1 deck than a lower tier deck, but that will always be the case, no matter if the deck in question is of a control or aggro type.
Stats in the first weeks of an expansion don't matter.
Sure, Wild odd pally is strong, but I haven't seen one in ages! Other top tier decks are also stronger, there are decks like jade druid and big priest, and there are amazing aoe cards like Maelstrom Portal and Dark Iron Skulker.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
refined aggro decks are good against unrefined greedy decks, amazing!
Im playing Even paladin since begining of November got to rank 1 last season all the paladins i encountered were mostly odd about 1-2 even and maybe 1-2 mech palas ,so my winrate against paladin which are almost all agains odd paladin games is above 70% .
Even Paladin is also Tear 1 ,and odd paladin is agressiv but has no removal , best case they discover a Tarim but thats it , quite a few decks can beat that
The reason Odd Paladin has 60% winrate right now is because it counters all the bandwagoners playing hunter decks. Another reason is because it is a really simple deck and easy to pilot, so players on all ranks will have pretty good results with it, because it is not that skill intensive deck. That's why generally simple aggressive decks will have a bigger winrate than other decks. And decks like say Combo Inner Fire priest have bad winrates, because a rank 15 players doesn't know how to play it well, while a top player can reach rank 1 legend with it.
Does Odd Paladin need nerf? Absolutely not. You want to nerf it? Then you can start hunter nerf threads already, cause if they nerf it, thats all you gonna see on ladder. Don't like odd paladin? Play Evenlock.
if they really wanted to nerf it, the upgraded hero power would be summon a single 2/2
the deck is obviously beatable, thats maybe not the problem, but the problem is that its been a tier 1 deck for three straight expansions now with no sign of relenting. Waiting a whole year for a meta shake up because 260 and some cards cant push out a single deck says a lot