Even Paladin exists and is just as strong as its Odd brother.
All the other top tier decks can deal with it fairly well.
Odd Paladin is polarizing, yet not broken.
Proof is that pre-Giggling Inventor nerf, Odd Paladin was way weaker: if a solid neutral card can fend off a deck, it can't be as OP as to need a nerf.
Truthfully aggo/tempo decks are at the top of the food chain. There just needs to be some more early game AOE control options while decks like odd pali exist.
It's a deck that is strong in low ranks and becomes worse at higher ranks. It's so easy to beat if you know what you are doing - though it is a deck that punishes bad draws and meme decks.
However, the deck is good deck and most importantly: it's cheap. Thus, it gives new players a chance to have a good deck without spending money on the game. Another important thing is that it teaches you a few good lessons in Hearthstone, trading and when to go face. This is crucial depending on the matchup. People who say "just click face" have not played aggro vs aggro where the game is decided by the board state, and a bad trade can cost you the game.
I acknowledge it can be frustrating to lose against because it the victories feels cheap. However, it is also very easily countered by a few cards. If they don't have a board by t4-t5 it's a lost game most of the time.
Truthfully aggo/tempo decks are at the top of the food chain. There just needs to be some more early game AOE control options while decks like odd pali exist.
The Golden Rule of Hearthstone:
There will always be Aggro.
Hearthstone favors the aggressor, because they get to dictate trades. So Aggro will always be a thing.
This doesn't mean that other kinds of decks can't exist. Control decks farm the Aggro decks, and Anti-Control decks in turn farm the Control decks. The Meta reaches an equilibrium where all play styles exist and are Legend Viable. Just look at the variety of decks people have used to hit #1 Legend on Ladder at HSTD.
Level Up! rotation should be more than enough to remove it from the meta.
This.
It's possible the deck survives, that there are other tools aggro paladin can use to stay viable. I mean, Aggro Paladin has often been a kinda viable archetype in HS History. But Odd aggro loses a lot of cards. Lost in the Jungle. Vinecleaver. Cobalt Scalebane. Fungalmancer.
The cooler possibility: Odd Paladin evolves. A few times, I've tried to put together some type of more midrange odd paladin, with the premise that old Justicar Paladin got a lot of work in by just pushing the button every turn. Maybe there's a few new odd-mana cost control tools (a couple of new spells, plus maybe Shirvallah, the Tiger, and you'd see Shrink Ray and other cool stuff make it's way into a more midrange odd Paladin deck.
It's possible the deck survives, that there are other tools aggro paladin can use to stay viable. I mean, Aggro Paladin has often been a kinda viable archetype in HS History. But Odd aggro loses a lot of cards. Lost in the Jungle. Vinecleaver. Cobalt Scalebane. Fungalmancer.
The cooler possibility: Odd Paladin evolves. A few times, I've tried to put together some type of more midrange odd paladin, with the premise that old Justicar Paladin got a lot of work in by just pushing the button every turn. Maybe there's a few new odd-mana cost control tools (a couple of new spells, plus maybe Shirvallah, the Tiger, and you'd see Shrink Ray and other cool stuff make it's way into a more midrange odd Paladin deck.
It's possible the deck survives, that there are other tools aggro paladin can use to stay viable. I mean, Aggro Paladin has often been a kinda viable archetype in HS History. But Odd aggro loses a lot of cards. Lost in the Jungle. Vinecleaver. Cobalt Scalebane. Fungalmancer.
The cooler possibility: Odd Paladin evolves. A few times, I've tried to put together some type of more midrange odd paladin, with the premise that old Justicar Paladin got a lot of work in by just pushing the button every turn. Maybe there's a few new odd-mana cost control tools (a couple of new spells, plus maybe Shirvallah, the Tiger, and you'd see Shrink Ray and other cool stuff make it's way into a more midrange odd Paladin deck.
In this same vein, I actually think Odd Paladin could be a great midrange deck. It's just that the aggro version is much better presently.
it does need nerf in wild, nerfing quartermaster should do the job
I totally agree with that. The standard version is ok and don't need any nerf (yes the deck can be annoying but it's not that oppressive right now).
But the wild version is a different story, there's so much synergy, every flood and buff silver hand recruit are odd cards and it's just stupid at this point.
It's NOT a 60% win rate deck. You need to look at Vicious Syndicate. Its in the 53 to 54% range regardless of rank. Good deck? Yes. Can it be countered. Yes? Does it need a nerf? NO.
What makes Vicious Syndicate better than HSReplay?
Realistic vs exaggerated/biased win rates.
What? It collects stats from the software Hearthstone Deck Tracker automatically.
People play that decks in different ranks. If you play them at rank 25 with a 100% winrate, the site will collect that data.
Ever since it's release, odd paladin has been a tier 1 deck, with close to a 60% win rate.
It's obvious that the nerf they did wasn't enough, as it hasn't bulged in dominance. It's not that it's unbeatable, but there are very few decks that can, even among control decks which are designed to counter fast tempo decks.
In your opinion, what can they do to nerf it further? Another problem is that with it being as dominant as it is, no other variants of paladin will rise until the next rotation, which is still over half a year away.
You have no idea what you're talking about. The deck fell to tier 3 multiple times since its introduction, where it spent most of its time. It keeps climbing up to rank 1 every time after a nerf (we had 2 so far) and then drops back down to tier 3 once people discover something new. You do realize no one was playing paladins at all for 2+ months until the Giggling Inventor nerf? Even now, the deck is good, but there are other decks that are good, as well as decks that completely destroy it (like Odd Warrior and any sort of Druid). Should we nerf them too?
Odd Paladin is listed there with a near 60% winrate, but so is Secret Hunter, Spell Hunter, Big Spell Mage, Control Priest, Odd Rogue, Even Shaman, Even Warlock, Zoo Warlock, Token Druid, Taunt Druid, Mecha'Tun Druid... yeah, go to VS.
You don't want nerfs to odd paladin. Good luck in a meta where everyone crafts kingsbane because the door is wide open. You want that odd paladin standing on the wall.
Odd palla is not that OP dude. It's not that hard to win against
It has almost a 60% win rate. Other decks have been nerfed when they had that win rate and were that dominant. So yes, it is "that OP", as stats don't lie.
If we're going on VS's data, Odd Paladin has 53.5% wr. That is not "almost 60%." I did some quick searching on the numbers and it seems that with a 60% wr (virtually impossible across a large sample) you need ~125 games to go from R5 -> Legend. At 54% wr or less you need at least double that. That's a HUGE difference. 125 games isn't "almost 250 games."
Odd Paladin isn't OP, and the decks that are its worst matchups happen to be control decks/classes - Druid, BSM, Odd Warrior, Even Warlock, and Shudderwock Shaman. Where am I getting that information? Why, from the very place you pulled this imaginary "almost 60% wr" from, https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-112/.
I can go on and on. Decks with over 55% win rate are a dime a dozen on HSReplay. Unfortunately, it is mathematically impossible.
Blizzard themselves have confirmed (though it is long ago) that the deck with the highest winrate ever was the very first Patron Warrior with overall stats of 55%, though in high ranks it was near 60% while being much lower in lower level ranges. HSReplays stats seem fishy indeed.
It's possible the deck survives, that there are other tools aggro paladin can use to stay viable. I mean, Aggro Paladin has often been a kinda viable archetype in HS History. But Odd aggro loses a lot of cards. Lost in the Jungle. Vinecleaver. Cobalt Scalebane. Fungalmancer.
The cooler possibility: Odd Paladin evolves. A few times, I've tried to put together some type of more midrange odd paladin, with the premise that old Justicar Paladin got a lot of work in by just pushing the button every turn. Maybe there's a few new odd-mana cost control tools (a couple of new spells, plus maybe Shirvallah, the Tiger, and you'd see Shrink Ray and other cool stuff make it's way into a more midrange odd Paladin deck.
It's possible the deck survives, that there are other tools aggro paladin can use to stay viable. I mean, Aggro Paladin has often been a kinda viable archetype in HS History. But Odd aggro loses a lot of cards. Lost in the Jungle. Vinecleaver. Cobalt Scalebane. Fungalmancer.
The cooler possibility: Odd Paladin evolves. A few times, I've tried to put together some type of more midrange odd paladin, with the premise that old Justicar Paladin got a lot of work in by just pushing the button every turn. Maybe there's a few new odd-mana cost control tools (a couple of new spells, plus maybe Shirvallah, the Tiger, and you'd see Shrink Ray and other cool stuff make it's way into a more midrange odd Paladin deck.
In this same vein, I actually think Odd Paladin could be a great midrange deck. It's just that the aggro version is much better presently.
Even paladin already exists though, and it's a great midrange deck. Odd paladin should be an aggro deck in my opinion, to give combo decks a hard time. Odd paladin is also a deck you can interact with, unless they draw amazingly or you don't.
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Even Paladin exists and is just as strong as its Odd brother.
All the other top tier decks can deal with it fairly well.
Odd Paladin is polarizing, yet not broken.
Proof is that pre-Giggling Inventor nerf, Odd Paladin was way weaker: if a solid neutral card can fend off a deck, it can't be as OP as to need a nerf.
Truthfully aggo/tempo decks are at the top of the food chain. There just needs to be some more early game AOE control options while decks like odd pali exist.
it does need nerf in wild, nerfing quartermaster should do the job
It's a deck that is strong in low ranks and becomes worse at higher ranks. It's so easy to beat if you know what you are doing - though it is a deck that punishes bad draws and meme decks.
However, the deck is good deck and most importantly: it's cheap. Thus, it gives new players a chance to have a good deck without spending money on the game. Another important thing is that it teaches you a few good lessons in Hearthstone, trading and when to go face. This is crucial depending on the matchup. People who say "just click face" have not played aggro vs aggro where the game is decided by the board state, and a bad trade can cost you the game.
I acknowledge it can be frustrating to lose against because it the victories feels cheap. However, it is also very easily countered by a few cards. If they don't have a board by t4-t5 it's a lost game most of the time.
Bulged! LOL! Paladins do have a big bulge. I think you meant budged.
The Golden Rule of Hearthstone:
There will always be Aggro.
Hearthstone favors the aggressor, because they get to dictate trades. So Aggro will always be a thing.
This doesn't mean that other kinds of decks can't exist. Control decks farm the Aggro decks, and Anti-Control decks in turn farm the Control decks. The Meta reaches an equilibrium where all play styles exist and are Legend Viable. Just look at the variety of decks people have used to hit #1 Legend on Ladder at HSTD.
What can they do to nerf odd paladin?
Wait for Level Up to rotate out.
This.
It's possible the deck survives, that there are other tools aggro paladin can use to stay viable. I mean, Aggro Paladin has often been a kinda viable archetype in HS History. But Odd aggro loses a lot of cards. Lost in the Jungle. Vinecleaver. Cobalt Scalebane. Fungalmancer.
The cooler possibility: Odd Paladin evolves. A few times, I've tried to put together some type of more midrange odd paladin, with the premise that old Justicar Paladin got a lot of work in by just pushing the button every turn. Maybe there's a few new odd-mana cost control tools (a couple of new spells, plus maybe Shirvallah, the Tiger, and you'd see Shrink Ray and other cool stuff make it's way into a more midrange odd Paladin deck.
Nerf fungleboy to 6 mana to nerf agro odd decks in general
In this same vein, I actually think Odd Paladin could be a great midrange deck. It's just that the aggro version is much better presently.
Has the need for such a nerf been established? Nope, not even remotely close. Take your sour grapes to the salt thread.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
just make the hero power summon 2 1/0 minions instead. thatll do it
I totally agree with that. The standard version is ok and don't need any nerf (yes the deck can be annoying but it's not that oppressive right now).
But the wild version is a different story, there's so much synergy, every flood and buff silver hand recruit are odd cards and it's just stupid at this point.
People play that decks in different ranks. If you play them at rank 25 with a 100% winrate, the site will collect that data.
Leper Gnome
i believe that odd pala is at his best moment now... but since its birth it s been an overplayed deck with inflated wr from hsreplay.
but who cares? it rotates in 3 months from now... and it is not actually that strong, it depends absolutelly on his early presence on board
You have no idea what you're talking about. The deck fell to tier 3 multiple times since its introduction, where it spent most of its time. It keeps climbing up to rank 1 every time after a nerf (we had 2 so far) and then drops back down to tier 3 once people discover something new. You do realize no one was playing paladins at all for 2+ months until the Giggling Inventor nerf? Even now, the deck is good, but there are other decks that are good, as well as decks that completely destroy it (like Odd Warrior and any sort of Druid). Should we nerf them too?
HSreplay isn't as reliable as VS unfortunately.
Odd Paladin is listed there with a near 60% winrate, but so is Secret Hunter, Spell Hunter, Big Spell Mage, Control Priest, Odd Rogue, Even Shaman, Even Warlock, Zoo Warlock, Token Druid, Taunt Druid, Mecha'Tun Druid... yeah, go to VS.
You don't want nerfs to odd paladin. Good luck in a meta where everyone crafts kingsbane because the door is wide open. You want that odd paladin standing on the wall.
Blizzard themselves have confirmed (though it is long ago) that the deck with the highest winrate ever was the very first Patron Warrior with overall stats of 55%, though in high ranks it was near 60% while being much lower in lower level ranges. HSReplays stats seem fishy indeed.
Even paladin already exists though, and it's a great midrange deck. Odd paladin should be an aggro deck in my opinion, to give combo decks a hard time. Odd paladin is also a deck you can interact with, unless they draw amazingly or you don't.