People disagreeing really need to ladder from 5 to legend. You'll notice that there's a substantial skill difference between even paladins and slower decks.
Paladin IS a problem. It's the best class in every format including arena. They just have so many good cards. But I don't think nerfing the hero power is the solution. Maybe not giving the class good cards for the next year is a better solution. Either way, paladin is here to stay for awhile so all you can do is adapt. By the way, my big spell mage deck doesn't really have a problem with paladin so I don't really know what the issue is for the OP.
You should learn to tech, I guess. Control priest here, 60+% wr against all kinds of pallies, coz of heavy teaching against agro. Same vs warlocks - words, mass dispells, Harrison nd oozes make that matchup favored. Quest rogue the problem. Not interactive and if u not agro - u dead. And Zeta tech a pair of cobalt scalebanes to stand a chance against them at top 30 legend.
You should learn to tech, I guess. Control priest here, 60+% wr against all kinds of pallies, coz of heavy teaching against agro. Same vs warlocks - words, mass dispells, Harrison nd oozes make that matchup favored. Quest rogue the problem. Not interactive and if u not agro - u dead. And Zeta tech a pair of cobalt scalebanes to stand a chance against them at top 30 legend.
But seriously though, big mage is as toxic as well. Jaina into Polymorph and Voodoo Doll and mass amount of aoe. They should make voodoo doll exclusive to shaman. The nerf on Hex is so unexpected. And now Shaman need the hex to be 3 mana to make it worthwhile against all those aggro deck. By the way OTK Shudderwock is boring. Hagatha elemental is more fun with all the rng.
Baku and Genn design is good since most hero-powers are control/sustain tools that don't leave lasting effect on the match.
But it really gets out of hand in Paladins case since it lets him develop a board with dudes don't disappear at the end of turn.
And you can't really play around Baku like you could vs Reno (even though it was thru few niche cards like Weasel) since it goes off before game even starts.
Honestly, Paladin, at the very least feels the most fair OP deck to play against.
It never feels like I'm being cheesed. It's just that the difference in card quality is noticeable (aka I can't beat them easily with Hunter because Hunter just doesn't have cards that good)
Most of their win conditions, clears and powerplays are ppredictable, just not always easy to counter. At the same time, all their power is distributed evenly. they don't have insane burst, they do suffer agianst defensive decks and they can be outvalued.
Meanwhile compare it to Cubelock, which isn't nearly as strong but wins against certain decks just on principal. Got no answer to my turn 6 Voidlord? Guess you lose. Spiteful Druid. Can't deal with a 12/12 on turn 6? Guess you lose.
The real problem with Paladin is jsut the abundance of good cards. Y'all talking about nerfing Paladin, but how is that actually going to work considering their two best decks DO NOT EVEN SHARE ANY CARDS. Any mana-cost nerf to one cards is a potential buff to the other deck.
Against Paladin most decks at least ahve a fighting chance most of the time. Sometimes you get steamrolled, sometimes you get outvalued, but it never seems like you're completely screwed from the start.
Honestly, Paladin, at the very least feels the most fair OP deck to play against.
It never feels like I'm being cheesed. It's just that the difference in card quality is noticeable (aka I can't beat them easily with Hunter because Hunter just doesn't have cards that good)
Most of their win conditions, clears and powerplays are ppredictable, just not always easy to counter. At the same time, all their power is distributed evenly. they don't have insane burst, they do suffer agianst defensive decks and they can be outvalued.
Meanwhile compare it to Cubelock, which isn't nearly as strong but wins against certain decks just on principal. Got no answer to my turn 6 Voidlord? Guess you lose. Spiteful Druid. Can't deal with a 12/12 on turn 6? Guess you lose.
The real problem with Paladin is jsut the abundance of good cards. Y'all talking about nerfing Paladin, but how is that actually going to work considering their two best decks DO NOT EVEN SHARE ANY CARDS. Any mana-cost nerf to one cards is a potential buff to the other deck.
Against Paladin most decks at least ahve a fighting chance most of the time. Sometimes you get steamrolled, sometimes you get outvalued, but it never seems like you're completely screwed from the start.
Those are my exact thoughts. I have both Even Paladin and Control Warlock.
Call to Arms and Tarim certainly do powerful things, but honestly a Voidlord on 5 or the Gul'dan battlecry are far, far more powerful and swingy. And for most of classes, also game over. Even stuff like Rin is unanswerable for some classes.
I actually suspect Paladin is this good now simply because of Genn Greymane. A 1 mana Hero Power that puts something on the board is so good. Whenever I'm playing Warlock I'm really missing a 1 mana hero power. The Even restriction actually makes for a really, really smooth curving with the hero power making it very rare Paladin doesn't have at least a decent turn. Meanwhile in Warlock I can sit with multiple dead cards in my hand with many different costs. Really miss being able to play something + hero power almost every turn.
That's also my impression on Even Shaman that plays very similarly to Even Paladin. Except it doesn't have many good cards or it would be easily at the same tier. While Paladin can on turn 4 play Call to Arms, Truesilver and Blessing of Kings, Shaman is at best putting a fully buffed Corpsetaker or holding Hex. On 6 Paladin has Tarim, Avenging Wrath, Steed... Shaman has like Argent Crusader and Fire Elemental.
Even if both Call to Arms and Tarim are bottom 10, the other cards are decent enough on their own.
I agree that matches against Paladin are tough but it never feels like an uphill battle like going against Warlock.
The real problem is Divine Favor. It has always been a problem, whenever aggro paladin takes over the meta, it's because divine favor allows for crazy refuels against control... it can't be played around because as a control player you typically are running a slower curve and it's impossible to dump your hand by turn 5/6.
I love paladin, but divine favor was and will be a cancer for as long as it exists as is.
The real problem is Divine Favor. It has always been a problem, whenever aggro paladin takes over the meta, it's because divine favor allows for crazy refuels against control... it can't be played around because as a control player you typically are running a slower curve and it's impossible to dump your hand by turn 5/6.
I love paladin, but divine favor was and will be a cancer for as long as it exists as is.
Divine Favor is a stupid card yes, but it's not the real problem. Even Pally doesn't play it (obviously) and is still incredibly strong. Pally just has really strong cards across the board.
Can y'all just let paladin be in the spotlight for a while? Shaman was busted, preist was busted, paladin hasn't been "busted" since TgT really, despite what people say about murloc paladin last rotation it was just decent compared to the levels of bs we see from cubelock and saw from raza preist, or god forbid face shaman. Just...just let me have this ok?!?
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People disagreeing really need to ladder from 5 to legend. You'll notice that there's a substantial skill difference between even paladins and slower decks.
Fuck cubelock
Paladin IS a problem. It's the best class in every format including arena. They just have so many good cards. But I don't think nerfing the hero power is the solution. Maybe not giving the class good cards for the next year is a better solution. Either way, paladin is here to stay for awhile so all you can do is adapt. By the way, my big spell mage deck doesn't really have a problem with paladin so I don't really know what the issue is for the OP.
You should learn to tech, I guess. Control priest here, 60+% wr against all kinds of pallies, coz of heavy teaching against agro. Same vs warlocks - words, mass dispells, Harrison nd oozes make that matchup favored. Quest rogue the problem. Not interactive and if u not agro - u dead. And Zeta tech a pair of cobalt scalebanes to stand a chance against them at top 30 legend.
This expansion is so boring. Though I have already spend that 60 bucks.
I think this is the same with every new year rotation. There is just not enough card introduced to be good at control.
That's why aggro deck is overtaken the ladder.
Naxx - Haunted Creeper Undertaker
TGT - Totem Golem Tuskarr Totemic
Mean Street - Patches the Pirate
But seriously though, big mage is as toxic as well. Jaina into Polymorph and Voodoo Doll and mass amount of aoe. They should make voodoo doll exclusive to shaman. The nerf on Hex is so unexpected. And now Shaman need the hex to be 3 mana to make it worthwhile against all those aggro deck. By the way OTK Shudderwock is boring. Hagatha elemental is more fun with all the rng.
Baku and Genn design is good since most hero-powers are control/sustain tools that don't leave lasting effect on the match.
But it really gets out of hand in Paladins case since it lets him develop a board with dudes don't disappear at the end of turn.
And you can't really play around Baku like you could vs Reno (even though it was thru few niche cards like Weasel) since it goes off before game even starts.
Piloted Shredder, Knife Juggler, Mad Scientist, Dr. Boom
Need to be removed from this game
Go play hunter, and put a death knight rexxar in your deck , deal with it get over it , pally’s rule the board nowadays
Nothing but ash!
Honestly, Paladin, at the very least feels the most fair OP deck to play against.
It never feels like I'm being cheesed. It's just that the difference in card quality is noticeable (aka I can't beat them easily with Hunter because Hunter just doesn't have cards that good)
Most of their win conditions, clears and powerplays are ppredictable, just not always easy to counter. At the same time, all their power is distributed evenly. they don't have insane burst, they do suffer agianst defensive decks and they can be outvalued.
Meanwhile compare it to Cubelock, which isn't nearly as strong but wins against certain decks just on principal. Got no answer to my turn 6 Voidlord? Guess you lose. Spiteful Druid. Can't deal with a 12/12 on turn 6? Guess you lose.
The real problem with Paladin is jsut the abundance of good cards. Y'all talking about nerfing Paladin, but how is that actually going to work considering their two best decks DO NOT EVEN SHARE ANY CARDS. Any mana-cost nerf to one cards is a potential buff to the other deck.
Against Paladin most decks at least ahve a fighting chance most of the time. Sometimes you get steamrolled, sometimes you get outvalued, but it never seems like you're completely screwed from the start.
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
The real problem is Divine Favor. It has always been a problem, whenever aggro paladin takes over the meta, it's because divine favor allows for crazy refuels against control... it can't be played around because as a control player you typically are running a slower curve and it's impossible to dump your hand by turn 5/6.
I love paladin, but divine favor was and will be a cancer for as long as it exists as is.
Ibn Fahd.
Can y'all just let paladin be in the spotlight for a while? Shaman was busted, preist was busted, paladin hasn't been "busted" since TgT really, despite what people say about murloc paladin last rotation it was just decent compared to the levels of bs we see from cubelock and saw from raza preist, or god forbid face shaman. Just...just let me have this ok?!?
To Arms Men!