Please forgive my ramblings below. Everybody feels sorry for Priests right now, but I think Paladins are in way worse shape.
I'm frustrated that Paladins have no decent early-game class-specific cards in Standard. Obviously we did pre-Standard, but I don't understand why we didn't get something to fill that gap in Old Gods or Karazhan. I think they tried (or thought they tried) with a couple cards that I describe below, but it seems to me that it was almost a knee jerk-reaction to the Mysterious Challenger debacle: "Since Secret Paladin ruled the meta for the 6-8 month period pre-Standard, Paladins won't be given anything good as punishment." Most self-respecting Paladins didn't even want MC or any of his secrets in the first place!
As a result, you have to choose aggro or control in Standard. Aggro pretty much sucks, and all the viable Control Paladin decks (N'Zoth/Healadin/Anyfin) in Standard need to stall for the first 4-6 turns before they can start dropping anything of value. If I have to play another Doomsayer or Wild Pyromancer just to survive I will vomit. Here is my opinion of the 1-3 mana Paladin minions.
Selfless Hero - What a joke. I love the Divine Shield mechanic, but the 2/1 body makes this almost entirely unplayable on turn 1. It is almost never able to give another minion its deathrattle in the early turns. This should have been a 1/3 in order to be relevant. The incredible 1/3 class minions like Mana Wyrm, Northshire Cleric, Tunnel Trogg, and Voidwalker can provide insane value because they almost always live at least a turn. (Fiery Bat is also 2/1, but it's deathrattle always provides value.)
Vilefin Inquisitor - An even bigger joke. I never played WoW, so maybe I don't understand the link between Murlocs and Paladins. But this card doesn't do anything for any of the viable Murloc decks. It's worthless. The little 1/1s from the hero power are cute, but then you can't use Justicar and they aren't even buffed by Warhorse Trainer or Quartermaster. And worse - this card didn't need to be a 1/3! The entire value of the card is in the battlecry. It could have been a 0/1 for all I care. Then they could have made Selfless Hero the 1/3 instead.
Argent Protector - This is actually a pretty good card in some situations, but rarely on turn 2. It is a 2/2 that provides Divine Shield. That sounds kind of like Shielded Minibot, but since Minibot had all that in one package, you could drop it on turn 2. Argent Protector is a great play later in the game to give one of your bigger minions a bubble, but rarely gets good value on turn 2.
Aldor Peacekeeper - This is an extremely powerful card - one of the best 3-mana cards in the game in my opinion. But the problem is that you almost never want to play it on turn 3 because of the opportunity cost - you want to save it for the big boys coming down the road.
Nightbane Templar - This was a step in the right direction and (almost) keeps Dragon Paladin off life support. But compare this card to the cards with dragon synergies for Priest (Twilight Whelp at 1 mana and Wyrmrest Agent for 2 mana) and for Warrior (Alexstrasza's Champion at 2 mana). They can get their cards out much faster, which makes those dragon decks much more viable vs the faster decks in the meta.
Steward of Darkshire - I really want to use this card, and I keep trying. I love the dynamic of granting Divine Shield to any number of minions - especially your Silver Hand Recruits. But it is simply too easy for your opponent to kill a minion with 3 health on turn 3. It just never gets any value. You have to wait until later in the game to combo it with other minions to get the effect. The card should have been a 2/4 like Flamewaker, Imp Gang Boss, or Frothing Berserker.
I feel no remorse towards Paladin, their Murloc OTK deck is fucking bullshit and I can't wait until it burns in hell, Paladin has the best healing in the game, and can recover from any shit that goes down in the early game, lets see how
When Paladin gets good early game minions, players still start pushing Aggro Paladin again..... and the meta becomes another aggro feast like last year....
I'm playing four separate Paladin decks right now that are all performing fine. When the patch hits, several of Paladin's hardest match-ups are gonna get shut down, so they'll be performing even better. As a Paladin main, I am 100% satisfied with the current status of Paladin and would like to see it not change into another boring Curvestone™ class. ty
How about you play murlocadin in the meta now like I have. It struggles against shamans, huntards and zoo just like any other control deck. The skill involved is a lot more than agro and "midrange" decks. You have to see from their point of view that it is anything from OP.
I feel no remorse towards Paladin, their Murloc OTK deck is fucking bullshit and I can't wait until it burns in hell, Paladin has the best healing in the game, and can recover from any shit that goes down in the early game, lets see how
Equality + Pyromancer/Consecration
Ivory Knight
Forbidden Healing
Tirion Fordring
Ragnaros, Lightlord
Doomsayer
Truesilver Champion
Humility/Aldor + Kodo
I agree with you - I hate Anyfin and MC. I wish neither archetype had ever happened.
The thing about control is that you need early removal to make it work well. Look at Warrior and Priest - they both have cheap/clean removal for the early turns.
Paladin removal is all AOE crap that requires a combo to make happen. Combos are fine if you have 10-12 turns to get the cards into your hand, but that does nothing for you on turn 4.
I feel no remorse towards Paladin, their Murloc OTK deck is fucking bullshit and I can't wait until it burns in hell, Paladin has the best healing in the game, and can recover from any shit that goes down in the early game, lets see how
Equality + Pyromancer/Consecration
Ivory Knight
Forbidden Healing
Tirion Fordring
Ragnaros, Lightlord
Doomsayer
Truesilver Champion
Humility/Aldor + Kodo
I agree with you - I hate Anyfin and MC. I wish neither archetype had ever happened.
So you don't like Paladin when it's weak and you don't like Paladin when it's strong. What exactly is it that you want then?
I'd have to say the Paladin class is in decent shape- Its not suffering as much as Priest, but it's certainly not excelling the way Shaman is. I agree Paladin could use some better low-mana cards, but I also think you can still work around it and make a fantastic deck, even at this point. How is really up to you, every player is different.
Well at least when Entomb is gone, nzoth paladin will be strongest control class in the game. The holy trio dual rag and tirion is insane. After that you have nzoth.. no other control class come close to this late game power.
I feel no remorse towards Paladin, their Murloc OTK deck is fucking bullshit and I can't wait until it burns in hell, Paladin has the best healing in the game, and can recover from any shit that goes down in the early game, lets see how
Equality + Pyromancer/Consecration
Ivory Knight
Forbidden Healing
Tirion Fordring
Ragnaros, Lightlord
Doomsayer
Truesilver Champion
Humility/Aldor + Kodo
I agree with you - I hate Anyfin and MC. I wish neither archetype had ever happened.
So you don't like Paladin when it's weak and you don't like Paladin when it's strong. What exactly is it that you want then?
Easy - I want good class-card options for a midrange archetype. That doesn't mean that we need to have great cards across the board - no class should have a perfect curve. But Paladins have absolutely nothing good to throw down on turns 1-3.
We now have two of the best class legendaries in the game - Tirion and Happy Rag. But we didn't need the new Rag - we needed early game. I would gladly have traded Ragnaros Lightlord for a 2 or 3 mana card that you can play on an empty board and have it stick.
Also - give all the crappy gimmick cards to the other classes (MC and Anyfin).
I feel no remorse towards Paladin, their Murloc OTK deck is fucking bullshit and I can't wait until it burns in hell, Paladin has the best healing in the game, and can recover from any shit that goes down in the early game, lets see how
Equality + Pyromancer/Consecration
Ivory Knight
Forbidden Healing
Tirion Fordring
Ragnaros, Lightlord
Doomsayer
Truesilver Champion
Humility/Aldor + Kodo
I agree with you - I hate Anyfin and MC. I wish neither archetype had ever happened.
So you don't like Paladin when it's weak and you don't like Paladin when it's strong. What exactly is it that you want then?
Easy - I want good class-card options for a midrange archetype. That doesn't mean that we need to have great cards across the board - no class should have a perfect curve. But Paladins have absolutely nothing good to throw down on turns 1-3.
We now have two of the best class legendaries in the game - Tirion and Happy Rag. But we didn't need the new Rag - we needed early game. I would gladly have traded Ragnaros Lightlord for a 2 or 3 mana card that you can play on an empty board and have it stick.
Also - give all the crappy gimmick cards to the other classes (MC and Anyfin).
The Secret Paladin deck you hated so much was a midrange archetype, and it was enabled to work solely by the existence of powerful early game minions. If Paladin were to get more strong early game before the next rotation, Secret Paladin would come back (since MC is still a card), and I would wager to guess you wouldn't be too pleased with that.
And is that really all you want? For Paladin to have one archetype and nothing else? The game is most fun when there are a number of playable archetypes for each class. So what if Paladin has murlocs? Anyfin Control is a hilarious, and if it were pushed over to another class like you suggested, what stops someone with a similar mindset from saying it doesn't belong there either?
Priority should be to keep the game fun, and virtually all of the most hated decks in Hearthstone history have had one thing in common: an overstatted early game curve. Powerful 1-2-3-drops are not healthy for the game, and I guarantee you, if you ever got your wish, you would be asking for it to be undone within a week.
I think Paladin has been one of the classes that just sticks there in mid tiers, even after all the nerfs and cards banned it still remain as a strong deck. Yes they lost Mini bot & Muster but at that time Paladin was so broken that it was boring...same as Shaman now.
IMO Pala is still in a very good position, Anyfin OTK is pretty good, N'Zoth Pala is ok also but inconsistent and last, the current pala deck I'm playing is Nzoth Dragon Pala, which is tons of fun, was good enouh to take me to rank 2 last season but I enjoyed every single game.
Pala could use some better early cards yes but is not that without them Paladin is a waste of class.
I find more aggressive decks harder to beat (a good hand cand destroy those though), at least rogue gives you 6/7 turns to draw before they can threaten lethal.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I used to be a control player like you, then I took a quick shot to the knee.
Please forgive my ramblings below. Everybody feels sorry for Priests right now, but I think Paladins are in way worse shape.
I'm frustrated that Paladins have no decent early-game class-specific cards in Standard. Obviously we did pre-Standard, but I don't understand why we didn't get something to fill that gap in Old Gods or Karazhan. I think they tried (or thought they tried) with a couple cards that I describe below, but it seems to me that it was almost a knee jerk-reaction to the Mysterious Challenger debacle: "Since Secret Paladin ruled the meta for the 6-8 month period pre-Standard, Paladins won't be given anything good as punishment." Most self-respecting Paladins didn't even want MC or any of his secrets in the first place!
As a result, you have to choose aggro or control in Standard. Aggro pretty much sucks, and all the viable Control Paladin decks (N'Zoth/Healadin/Anyfin) in Standard need to stall for the first 4-6 turns before they can start dropping anything of value. If I have to play another Doomsayer or Wild Pyromancer just to survive I will vomit. Here is my opinion of the 1-3 mana Paladin minions.
Selfless Hero - What a joke. I love the Divine Shield mechanic, but the 2/1 body makes this almost entirely unplayable on turn 1. It is almost never able to give another minion its deathrattle in the early turns. This should have been a 1/3 in order to be relevant. The incredible 1/3 class minions like Mana Wyrm, Northshire Cleric, Tunnel Trogg, and Voidwalker can provide insane value because they almost always live at least a turn. (Fiery Bat is also 2/1, but it's deathrattle always provides value.)
Vilefin Inquisitor - An even bigger joke. I never played WoW, so maybe I don't understand the link between Murlocs and Paladins. But this card doesn't do anything for any of the viable Murloc decks. It's worthless. The little 1/1s from the hero power are cute, but then you can't use Justicar and they aren't even buffed by Warhorse Trainer or Quartermaster. And worse - this card didn't need to be a 1/3! The entire value of the card is in the battlecry. It could have been a 0/1 for all I care. Then they could have made Selfless Hero the 1/3 instead.
Argent Protector - This is actually a pretty good card in some situations, but rarely on turn 2. It is a 2/2 that provides Divine Shield. That sounds kind of like Shielded Minibot, but since Minibot had all that in one package, you could drop it on turn 2. Argent Protector is a great play later in the game to give one of your bigger minions a bubble, but rarely gets good value on turn 2.
Aldor Peacekeeper - This is an extremely powerful card - one of the best 3-mana cards in the game in my opinion. But the problem is that you almost never want to play it on turn 3 because of the opportunity cost - you want to save it for the big boys coming down the road.
Nightbane Templar - This was a step in the right direction and (almost) keeps Dragon Paladin off life support. But compare this card to the cards with dragon synergies for Priest (Twilight Whelp at 1 mana and Wyrmrest Agent for 2 mana) and for Warrior (Alexstrasza's Champion at 2 mana). They can get their cards out much faster, which makes those dragon decks much more viable vs the faster decks in the meta.
Steward of Darkshire - I really want to use this card, and I keep trying. I love the dynamic of granting Divine Shield to any number of minions - especially your Silver Hand Recruits. But it is simply too easy for your opponent to kill a minion with 3 health on turn 3. It just never gets any value. You have to wait until later in the game to combo it with other minions to get the effect. The card should have been a 2/4 like Flamewaker, Imp Gang Boss, or Frothing Berserker.
Warhorse Trainer - I'm not even going to bother.
Thoughts?
Play control you pleb
I feel no remorse towards Paladin, their Murloc OTK deck is fucking bullshit and I can't wait until it burns in hell, Paladin has the best healing in the game, and can recover from any shit that goes down in the early game, lets see how
Equality + Pyromancer/Consecration
Ivory Knight
Forbidden Healing
Tirion Fordring
Ragnaros, Lightlord
Doomsayer
Truesilver Champion
Humility/Aldor + Kodo
Give me free packs: https://battle.net/recruit/HR62XS5TRN?blzcmp=raf-hs&s=HS&m=pc
When Paladin gets good early game minions, players still start pushing Aggro Paladin again..... and the meta becomes another aggro feast like last year....
I'm playing four separate Paladin decks right now that are all performing fine. When the patch hits, several of Paladin's hardest match-ups are gonna get shut down, so they'll be performing even better. As a Paladin main, I am 100% satisfied with the current status of Paladin and would like to see it not change into another boring Curvestone™ class. ty
How about you play murlocadin in the meta now like I have. It struggles against shamans, huntards and zoo just like any other control deck. The skill involved is a lot more than agro and "midrange" decks. You have to see from their point of view that it is anything from OP.
I'd have to say the Paladin class is in decent shape- Its not suffering as much as Priest, but it's certainly not excelling the way Shaman is. I agree Paladin could use some better low-mana cards, but I also think you can still work around it and make a fantastic deck, even at this point. How is really up to you, every player is different.
Well at least when Entomb is gone, nzoth paladin will be strongest control class in the game. The holy trio dual rag and tirion is insane. After that you have nzoth.. no other control class come close to this late game power.
I personally don't like the addition of Standard and Wild modes. But in a Wild Paladin deck, I've always been able to count on Shielded Minibot.
I think Paladin has been one of the classes that just sticks there in mid tiers, even after all the nerfs and cards banned it still remain as a strong deck. Yes they lost Mini bot & Muster but at that time Paladin was so broken that it was boring...same as Shaman now.
IMO Pala is still in a very good position, Anyfin OTK is pretty good, N'Zoth Pala is ok also but inconsistent and last, the current pala deck I'm playing is Nzoth Dragon Pala, which is tons of fun, was good enouh to take me to rank 2 last season but I enjoyed every single game.
Pala could use some better early cards yes but is not that without them Paladin is a waste of class.
I want secret paladin back. I regret the fact that I never got the chance to play it since I started playing close to standard.
anyfin paladin is the only viable paladin deck right now ;(
As long as rogue isn't strong...sap destroys your Cairne/sylvannas play and it's generally game over.
I used to be a control player like you, then I took a quick shot to the knee.
RIP Muster and Minibot