basically what i find trying healadin and various its modifications that while it is fine against agro its weak against control classes/ c' thun etc. Nzothing with only 3 deathrattles (tyrian sylwanna and cairne) is unreliable due to frogs, sheeps, entombs and other stuff. And decks becomes ultimately worthless if you can nzogh just one or two of them.
So what i would suggest you to try adding some badass minions to make deck to have a punch. you can have some ideas from this if you want - i succesfully crushing anything that is out there right now:)
yes, i feel the same, i lost 4 out of 4 vs a c'thun priest mostly because of entombs and as u said, simple sylvanas, cairne and tirion are not enough vs a priest. i was thinking that i could merge the dragon theme a bit deeper than your deck, so putting in Blackwing Corruptor x2 (efficient removal + body) Twilight Guardian x2 (good dmg mitigation vs aggro), and maybe Azure Drake x2 , aside from Chillmaw and Deathwing, Dragonlord. in my experience around the 5 drop spot is the core when we question which cards shuld be changed in order to make the the deck better overall around the core end game dr cards, healings and removals.
right now i'm trying with this, but not much success as i said it struggle vs priest and zoo also unfavored match up but often very close, Enter the Coliseum works very well against them.
i met with several mirror match ups where ppl were running Justicar Trueheart which is also clever, because in the late game the 2 1/1 could be very annoying (i lost in that game specificly thanks to those 1/1-s).
hm it seems that i cannot cite properly my deck, but u can check it by clicking on it...
I do not understand why people are saying that Cairne is such a must have in this deck, I really am. You guys are considering the incorrect archetype! There needs to be dragon synergy, so you have access to two of the best deathrattle minions in the game : Chillmaw and Deathwing, Dragonlord.
I am telling y'all, though it is quite apparent nobody reads previous posts in this thread, control DRAGodin is the best way to go with this N'Zoth archetype.
I do not understand why people are saying that Cairne is such a must have in this deck, I really am. You guys are considering the incorrect archetype! There needs to be dragon synergy, so you have access to two of the best deathrattle minions in the game : Chillmaw and Deathwing, Dragonlord.
I am telling y'all, though it is quite apparent nobody reads previous posts in this thread, control DRAGodin is the best way to go with this N'Zoth archetype.
It's fine to suggest different possibilities for an archetype, but you won't get many receptive listeners by telling everyone else they're wrong. Dragon/N'Zoth paladin may be a legitimate, competitive take on the deck, but that doesn't discredit the success others have had with the non-dragon version.
I do not understand why people are saying that Cairne is such a must have in this deck, I really am. You guys are considering the incorrect archetype! There needs to be dragon synergy, so you have access to two of the best deathrattle minions in the game : Chillmaw and Deathwing, Dragonlord.
I am telling y'all, though it is quite apparent nobody reads previous posts in this thread, control DRAGodin is the best way to go with this N'Zoth archetype.
It's fine to suggest different possibilities for an archetype, but you won't get many receptive listeners by telling everyone else they're wrong. Dragon/N'Zoth paladin may be a legitimate, competitive take on the deck, but that doesn't discredit the success others have had with the non-dragon version.
Bro the reason why I put my opinion out there is because everyone is saying they are losing to X and Y consistently (zoolock, face shaman, and priest are the big 3 I have seen in this thread.) I am saying that the dragon archetype is beating them and AT worst has around a 50% winrate (the worst is being 9 for 20 against shamans...)
I am not telling anybody that I am wrong. Rather, I think it is very constructive if anybody wants to get anywhere in this conversation to take a look at it, test it, and critique it!!!! I want N'Zoth pally to work. I am NOT saying that anybody is wrong. I am just saying that the conversation has been relatively unproductive to this point, and I want to bring something to the table that might progress the conversation.
I do not understand why people are saying that Cairne is such a must have in this deck, I really am. You guys are considering the incorrect archetype! There needs to be dragon synergy, so you have access to two of the best deathrattle minions in the game : Chillmaw and Deathwing, Dragonlord.
I am telling y'all, though it is quite apparent nobody reads previous posts in this thread, control DRAGodin is the best way to go with this N'Zoth archetype.
It's fine to suggest different possibilities for an archetype, but you won't get many receptive listeners by telling everyone else they're wrong. Dragon/N'Zoth paladin may be a legitimate, competitive take on the deck, but that doesn't discredit the success others have had with the non-dragon version.
Bro the reason why I put my opinion out there is because everyone is saying they are losing to X and Y consistently (zoolock, face shaman, and priest are the big 3 I have seen in this thread.) I am saying that the dragon archetype is beating them and AT worst has around a 50% winrate (the worst is being 9 for 20 against shamans...)
I am not telling anybody that I am wrong. Rather, I think it is very constructive if anybody wants to get anywhere in this conversation to take a look at it, test it, and critique it!!!! I want N'Zoth pally to work. I am NOT saying that anybody is wrong. I am just saying that the conversation has been relatively unproductive to this point, and I want to bring something to the table that might progress the conversation.
I think the best way to make this a productive thread and to get somewhere on a deck that we all want to work is to work together. Critique each others' ideas, not be mean to each other, just offer ways that a specific card or cards may be bad and what cards could be better. It is just annoying when I offer something and NOBODY even considers it. I have offered the dragon archetype, the N'Zoth misconception, and the tuskarr tech. The only thing that was responded to (and it was because of someone who said it after me) was the tuskarr tech.
That's fair. I guess Cairne is at least a high priority for non-dragon N'Zoth paladins, if not a must-have. Your list looks interesting, though, so I'll probably try it out and let you know how it fares.
That's fair. I guess Cairne is at least a high priority for non-dragon N'Zoth paladins, if not a must-have. Your list looks interesting, though, so I'll probably try it out and let you know how it fares.
Cairne is indeed a must have in non-dragon N'Zoth pally's... and bro you do not need to spend dust to play test, you can critique the idea/cards/techs on paper... I just want this conversation to go somewhere. I WANT this to work.
I actually have all the cards in the list, so that's no issue. It'll give me a reason to keep playing with my newly acquired golden paladin! If I tweak any of the cards, I'll report on some of my results.
yes, i feel the same, i lost 4 out of 4 vs a c'thun priest mostly because of entombs and as u said, simple sylvanas, cairne and tirion are not enough vs a priest. i was thinking that i could merge the dragon theme a bit deeper than your deck, so putting in Blackwing Corruptor x2 (efficient removal + body) Twilight Guardian x2 (good dmg mitigation vs aggro), and maybe Azure Drake x2 , aside from Chillmaw and Deathwing, Dragonlord. in my experience around the 5 drop spot is the core when we question which cards shuld be changed in order to make the the deck better overall around the core end game dr cards, healings and removals.
right now i'm trying with this, but not much success as i said it struggle vs priest and zoo also unfavored match up but often very close, Enter the Coliseum works very well against them.
i met with several mirror match ups where ppl were running Justicar Trueheart which is also clever, because in the late game the 2 1/1 could be very annoying (i lost in that game specificly thanks to those 1/1-s).
hm it seems that i cannot cite properly my deck, but u can check it by clicking on it...
Yep simple math is that 3 good deathrattles not enough. as at least 2 is at very high chance of being neglected one way or another.
So to make succesfull you need at least 5, making N'zoth to actually win a game for you. I see people putting healbot, 1/1 dude etc. but they are pure crap. so it leaves with only one option - dragons:) btw i like your idea of making more dragon oriented build, let me know how it goes:)
That's fair. I guess Cairne is at least a high priority for non-dragon N'Zoth paladins, if not a must-have. Your list looks interesting, though, so I'll probably try it out and let you know how it fares.
Cairne is indeed a must have in non-dragon N'Zoth pally's... and bro you do not need to spend dust to play test, you can critique the idea/cards/techs on paper... I just want this conversation to go somewhere. I WANT this to work.
Cairne is not a MUST include in Nzoth pld. Cairne is too slow in this meta currently with zoo/shaman dominating, and when you drop NZoth the game is usually over unless your already dead.. 90% of current decks people are running don't have the AoE to deal with N'zoth + 3 minions (except PLD) so having a 4/5 Cairne isn't going to matter. Your best bet, for the most consistent win rate is to plan around beating aggro since they are so prevalent. IF the meta slows down more, and control decks start becomining the norm on ladder, Cairne will have a place until then I'd rather run Tyrion/Sylv/Healbot as the 3 main minions that come back.
That's also why dragons are suffering as well, they are just too slow to compete in this meta currently.
Healbot is also a 6/6 that clears 90% of minions that are being played right now. While cairne does not. What AOE are you fearing in this current meta? Equality pyro/ equality consecration? Great let them burn that on a healbot.
Healbot also comes out a turn earlier which is crucial in a lot of matchups currently.
yes, i feel the same, i lost 4 out of 4 vs a c'thun priest mostly because of entombs and as u said, simple sylvanas, cairne and tirion are not enough vs a priest. i was thinking that i could merge the dragon theme a bit deeper than your deck, so putting in Blackwing Corruptor x2 (efficient removal + body) Twilight Guardian x2 (good dmg mitigation vs aggro), and maybe Azure Drake x2 , aside from Chillmaw and Deathwing, Dragonlord. in my experience around the 5 drop spot is the core when we question which cards shuld be changed in order to make the the deck better overall around the core end game dr cards, healings and removals.
right now i'm trying with this, but not much success as i said it struggle vs priest and zoo also unfavored match up but often very close, Enter the Coliseum works very well against them.
i met with several mirror match ups where ppl were running Justicar Trueheart which is also clever, because in the late game the 2 1/1 could be very annoying (i lost in that game specificly thanks to those 1/1-s).
hm it seems that i cannot cite properly my deck, but u can check it by clicking on it...
Yep simple math is that 3 good deathrattles not enough. as at least 2 is at very high chance of being neglected one way or another.
So to make succesfull you need at least 5, making N'zoth to actually win a game for you. I see people putting healbot, 1/1 dude etc. but they are pure crap. so it leaves with only one option - dragons:) btw i like your idea of making more dragon oriented build, let me know how it goes:)
It does fail hard against priest running entomb... like really hard. as long as they are smart enough to save the entombs for the deathrattles. I can see how a more aggressive and minion heavy deck might have more success against priest . hopefully forcing an earlier entomb.
yes, i feel the same, i lost 4 out of 4 vs a c'thun priest mostly because of entombs and as u said, simple sylvanas, cairne and tirion are not enough vs a priest. i was thinking that i could merge the dragon theme a bit deeper than your deck, so putting in Blackwing Corruptor x2 (efficient removal + body) Twilight Guardian x2 (good dmg mitigation vs aggro), and maybe Azure Drake x2 , aside from Chillmaw and Deathwing, Dragonlord. in my experience around the 5 drop spot is the core when we question which cards shuld be changed in order to make the the deck better overall around the core end game dr cards, healings and removals.
right now i'm trying with this, but not much success as i said it struggle vs priest and zoo also unfavored match up but often very close, Enter the Coliseum works very well against them.
i met with several mirror match ups where ppl were running Justicar Trueheart which is also clever, because in the late game the 2 1/1 could be very annoying (i lost in that game specificly thanks to those 1/1-s).
hm it seems that i cannot cite properly my deck, but u can check it by clicking on it...
Yep simple math is that 3 good deathrattles not enough. as at least 2 is at very high chance of being neglected one way or another.
So to make succesfull you need at least 5, making N'zoth to actually win a game for you. I see people putting healbot, 1/1 dude etc. but they are pure crap. so it leaves with only one option - dragons:) btw i like your idea of making more dragon oriented build, let me know how it goes:)
It does fail hard against priest running entomb... like really hard. as long as they are smart enough to save the entombs for the deathrattles. I can see how a more aggressive and minion heavy deck might have more success against priest . hopefully forcing an earlier entomb.
it never fails agains priest like never ever. simple math:) he steals 2 deathrattles. but thats it. if you N'zoth with 3 remainder deathrattles - game over pries has no AOE to deal with it. dont worry about entombs at all. let him steal;)
pretty much every game against priest that i played is :
I have been working on iterating the list and the core for the past two days.
Tried all the suggestions and most were mediocre. The Tuskarr Jouster was so bad it almost gave me hemorrhoids. Stampeding Kodo was a surprise, I guess this mostly went out because of creeper and egg? This card performed way above expectation and always found a high value target. Experience tells me that, from playing control paladin a lot back in early beta, having one kodo in hand is always useful. Having two is dreadful. I don't think it's core, but the card is very good, as a one-of.
I always thought going into this that the only viable gameplan would be double Corrupted Healbot double Forbidden Healing. These cards would allow you to shit on most other decks gameplans and just disregard the early game and health. Going into the lategame and outvalue the opponent.
Turns out a lot of players have been looking at other types of builds with Loot Hoarders and midgame minions like Twilight Summoner, cyclopian horror etc.. Regarding loot hoarder I think you always need a good reason to draw, and not just draw for the sake of drawing, you need to draw into something to spend mana on. The early game for this kind of build should always revolve around containing the board. freeze mage for example wants to draw early game, because their gameplan is intrinsic.
If the core is good enough then building the deck to a players need becomes trivial. No player plays the same
Adding dragons to the core is fine if it suits your purposes. I can't see that variant being better than the control variant. Do you have stats?
Making changes to the core is fine if there is good reasoning for it.
The laddering stats so far have been curious. Although it's still early in the season, and it might not be indicative. I targeted zoo and shaman specifically.
Still a cause for concern, I was expecting a better winrate than this.
ATTACHMENTS
matchups
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
basically what i find trying healadin and various its modifications that while it is fine against agro its weak against control classes/ c' thun etc. Nzothing with only 3 deathrattles (tyrian sylwanna and cairne) is unreliable due to frogs, sheeps, entombs and other stuff. And decks becomes ultimately worthless if you can nzogh just one or two of them.
So what i would suggest you to try adding some badass minions to make deck to have a punch. you can have some ideas from this if you want - i succesfully crushing anything that is out there right now:)
yes, i feel the same, i lost 4 out of 4 vs a c'thun priest mostly because of entombs and as u said, simple sylvanas, cairne and tirion are not enough vs a priest. i was thinking that i could merge the dragon theme a bit deeper than your deck, so putting in Blackwing Corruptor x2 (efficient removal + body) Twilight Guardian x2 (good dmg mitigation vs aggro), and maybe Azure Drake x2 , aside from Chillmaw and Deathwing, Dragonlord. in my experience around the 5 drop spot is the core when we question which cards shuld be changed in order to make the the deck better overall around the core end game dr cards, healings and removals.
right now i'm trying with this, but not much success as i said it struggle vs priest and zoo also unfavored match up but often very close, Enter the Coliseum works very well against them.
i met with several mirror match ups where ppl were running Justicar Trueheart which is also clever, because in the late game the 2 1/1 could be very annoying (i lost in that game specificly thanks to those 1/1-s).
hm it seems that i cannot cite properly my deck, but u can check it by clicking on it...
Can i build Nzoth paladin without Solemn Vigil and Cairne?What are the replacments?
I do not understand why people are saying that Cairne is such a must have in this deck, I really am. You guys are considering the incorrect archetype! There needs to be dragon synergy, so you have access to two of the best deathrattle minions in the game : Chillmaw and Deathwing, Dragonlord.
I am telling y'all, though it is quite apparent nobody reads previous posts in this thread, control DRAGodin is the best way to go with this N'Zoth archetype.
Pog to the Champ to the one-two-Kappa.
Pog to the Champ to the one-two-Kappa.
Pog to the Champ to the one-two-Kappa.
That's fair. I guess Cairne is at least a high priority for non-dragon N'Zoth paladins, if not a must-have. Your list looks interesting, though, so I'll probably try it out and let you know how it fares.
Pog to the Champ to the one-two-Kappa.
I actually have all the cards in the list, so that's no issue. It'll give me a reason to keep playing with my newly acquired golden paladin! If I tweak any of the cards, I'll report on some of my results.
Dude you are awesome! Just for you and others to keep in mind, tech choices I have been considering are:
Spellbreaker, Solemn Vigil, Blackwing Technician and Stampeding Kodo probably for the Jousters.
Pog to the Champ to the one-two-Kappa.
Cairne is anti AOE, healbot not. big difference.
Thanks for the suggestion i put 2 Cyclopian Horrors in and I had an 8-2 win rate at rank 11 thx man.
I love the added synergy from dragons with N'Zoth.
Deathwing, Dragonlord and Chillmaw for their deathrattles.
Deathwing, Dragonlord into [cardYsera[/card].
Rend Blackhand extra removal.
I've been running Twilight Drake and Twilight Guardian recently for 4 drops. A good taunt and a high health minion helps slow down the board.
And Twilight Drake is a great C'Thun soaker.
I have been working on iterating the list and the core for the past two days.
Tried all the suggestions and most were mediocre.
The Tuskarr Jouster was so bad it almost gave me hemorrhoids.
Stampeding Kodo was a surprise, I guess this mostly went out because of creeper and egg?
This card performed way above expectation and always found a high value target. Experience tells me that, from playing control paladin a lot back in early beta, having one kodo in hand is always useful. Having two is dreadful. I don't think it's core, but the card is very good, as a one-of.
I always thought going into this that the only viable gameplan would be double Corrupted Healbot double Forbidden Healing.
These cards would allow you to shit on most other decks gameplans and just disregard the early game and health. Going into the lategame and outvalue the opponent.
Turns out a lot of players have been looking at other types of builds with Loot Hoarders and midgame minions like Twilight Summoner, cyclopian horror etc..
Regarding loot hoarder I think you always need a good reason to draw, and not just draw for the sake of drawing, you need to draw into something to spend mana on.
The early game for this kind of build should always revolve around containing the board. freeze mage for example wants to draw early game, because their gameplan is intrinsic.
If the core is good enough then building the deck to a players need becomes trivial. No player plays the same
Adding dragons to the core is fine if it suits your purposes. I can't see that variant being better than the control variant. Do you have stats?
Making changes to the core is fine if there is good reasoning for it.
The laddering stats so far have been curious. Although it's still early in the season, and it might not be indicative. I targeted zoo and shaman specifically.
Still a cause for concern, I was expecting a better winrate than this.