Is there any counter to Zoolock that isn't Flamewaker Mage? I've been trying to build a direct control'ish/fatigue counter via variants of freeze mage, but they are extremely inconsistent. Failure to draw an AOE within the first 4-5 cards is an instant loss.
It's extremely frustrating to know every single card in my opponent's deck and still not be able to effectively counter it. Is it play Flamewaker mage or don't play mage at all?
There's a somewhat-experimental mage deck that uses Molten Giant and Echo of Medivh, as well as taunt-givers, Alexstrasza, etc that has a 60-40 matchup against Zoolock according to Tempostorm.
Here's an example decklist on their site; I'll see if Hearthpwn has anything similar.
There's a somewhat-experimental mage deck that uses Molten Giant and Echo of Medivh, as well as taunt-givers, Alexstrasza, etc that has a 60-40 matchup against Zoolock according to Tempostorm.
Here's an example decklist on their site; I'll see if Hearthpwn has anything similar.
In my opinion, 60-40 is already pretty good; high-tier decks don't have many <40% matchups.
Sadly, Flamewaker Mage is your only mage option (with a purported rate of 65-35). If you're willing to try other classes, Patron Warrior crushes Zoolock. You should be aware that this is simply one source of data (though I feel it's a reliable one). Other sites may report different matchup statistics.
In my opinion, 60-40 is already pretty good; high-tier decks don't have many <40% matchups.
Sadly, Flamewaker Mage is your only mage option (with a purported rate of 65-35). If you're willing to try other classes, Patron Warrior crushes Zoolock. You should be aware that this is simply one source of data (though I feel it's a reliable one). Other sites may report different matchup statistics.
In my opinion, I think that 60-40 is terrible when your goal is to make a hard counter. You've provided some good information, though; thanks for that. As suspected, warrior is really the only viable option--as it tends to be in every discussion regarding control'ish counter decks.
As a Midrange Zoolock player myself I can confirm that Tempo Mages don't counter my deck unless I have extremely bad hand.
It goes that way - I play Nerubian Egg and Imp Gang Boss and they already have hard time removing these cards. I don't even mention Voidcaller shenanigans, you see the picture.
The Freeze Mages are actually harder because they effectively remove my creatures and have strong late game spells.
As a Midrange Zoolock player myself I can confirm that Tempo Mages don't counter my deck unless I have extremely bad hand.
It goes that way - I play Nerubian Egg and Imp Gang Boss and they already have hard time removing these cards. I don't even mention Voidcaller shenanigans, you see the picture.
The Freeze Mages are actually harder because they effectively remove my creatures and have strong late game spells.
I've tried every variant of freeze I can think of and the hero power is just too difficult to keep up with. Without topdecking repeatedly, I'm always overwhelmed courtesy of the hero power. In all honesty, it feels like mage is pretty much unplayable on ranked due to 70%+ of the matches being against zoolock.
The strength of zoo lies in the fact that it is a solid all around deck that has a chance to win any matchup. It doesn't have any unwinnable matchups like some other decks. That said....some priest builds should have a 65-70% winrate, and freeze mage should be a solid counter too.
As a Midrange Zoolock player myself I can confirm that Tempo Mages don't counter my deck unless I have extremely bad hand.
It goes that way - I play Nerubian Egg and Imp Gang Boss and they already have hard time removing these cards. I don't even mention Voidcaller shenanigans, you see the picture.
The Freeze Mages are actually harder because they effectively remove my creatures and have strong late game spells.
I've tried every variant of freeze I can think of and the hero power is just too difficult to keep up with. Without topdecking repeatedly, I'm always overwhelmed courtesy of the hero power. In all honesty, it feels like mage is pretty much unplayable on ranked due to 70%+ of the matches being against zoolock.
What is your most feared deck, control warrior?
My most feared class is Druid actually. They always have answers in early game, they play Taunt with Innervate, later they just roll all over you with FoN and Savage Roar.
At least Control and Grim Patron Warrior can be outraced and killed before they play something really good.
As a Midrange Zoolock player myself I can confirm that Tempo Mages don't counter my deck unless I have extremely bad hand.
It goes that way - I play Nerubian Egg and Imp Gang Boss and they already have hard time removing these cards. I don't even mention Voidcaller shenanigans, you see the picture.
The Freeze Mages are actually harder because they effectively remove my creatures and have strong late game spells.
I've tried every variant of freeze I can think of and the hero power is just too difficult to keep up with. Without topdecking repeatedly, I'm always overwhelmed courtesy of the hero power. In all honesty, it feels like mage is pretty much unplayable on ranked due to 70%+ of the matches being against zoolock.
What is your most feared deck, control warrior?
My most feared class is Druid actually. They always have answers in early game, they play Taunt with Innervate, later they just roll all over you with FoN and Savage Roar.
At least Control and Grim Patron Warrior can be outraced and killed before they play something really good.
I think Patron is kind of tricky as Zoo. They basically have to blank on weapons, and even then acolyte, armorsmith and task master trade favorably and keep you from attacking face. Then again I play aggro zoo, not the midrange with voidcallers/Malganis- maybe that's slightly better.
I am the worst druid player in the world, but Zoo runs me over unless I get some insane value swipe and they stall. Obviously god start with coin wild growth- into innervate shenanigans being the exception.
Midrange Druid is a huge underdog against Zoo.... the heavier taunt version might be a little better, but I don't know if its the best zoo counter. Check Tempostorms matchups index on their meta snapshot. I think there are a couple errors this week, but its pretty good overall.
They list patron warrior, paladin, tempo mage, and handlock as favorable matchups against zoo, and that seems right to me. Priest isn't listed, because its not a common deck right now, but I think priest is the overall best counter to zoo.
Midrange Druid is a huge underdog against Zoo.... the heavier taunt version might be a little better, but I don't know if its the best zoo counter. Check Tempostorms matchups index on their meta snapshot. I think there are a couple errors this week, but its pretty good overall.
They list patron warrior, paladin, tempo mage, and handlock as favorable matchups against zoo, and that seems right to me. Priest isn't listed, because its not a common deck right now, but I think priest is the overall best counter to zoo.
I can see this being true. Benn running into Deathlord priests that look like they would smash zoo.
Just looking at the replies in this thread it, looks like zoo doesn't have any bad matchups. I don't think any other deck in the game can say the same. Jeez, do I loathe zoolocks.
Playing Zoo at rank 5-6. Here's my impressive consecutive loss list. So pick one of these and try out your RnG.
Facehunter: He combos Juggler into Unleash on turn 5 vs. my 6 minion board (I was trying to play around flame trap). All his juggles hit face or my implosions imps, niether of my 2 eggs are broken.
Patron Warrior. Typical loss, was running him over until he drops Thaurrisan and I have to deal with it. Had to gamble he didn't have Patron+warsong in hand because nothing in my hand was playable into patron besides Doomguard. Gamble didn't pay off.
Oil Rogue: Gets both is blade flurrys without needing to sprint, saps my Sea Giant, never get another board
Mech Mage. Perfect curve. Cog Master > Chugger > Shredder, Gets Iron Juggernaut from his unstable, Blastmage, Boom on 7
Mech Mage. Coins Warper into turn 2 Warper + Spider Tank. Turn 3 Yeti + Gnome.... yeah, ggZoolock: His start beats my start. T1: Flame imp T2: Leper gnome + Voidwalker T3: Gang boss T4: Shredder
Is there any counter to Zoolock that isn't Flamewaker Mage? I've been trying to build a direct control'ish/fatigue counter via variants of freeze mage, but they are extremely inconsistent. Failure to draw an AOE within the first 4-5 cards is an instant loss.
It's extremely frustrating to know every single card in my opponent's deck and still not be able to effectively counter it. Is it play Flamewaker mage or don't play mage at all?
There's a somewhat-experimental mage deck that uses Molten Giant and Echo of Medivh, as well as taunt-givers, Alexstrasza, etc that has a 60-40 matchup against Zoolock according to Tempostorm.
Here's an example decklist on their site; I'll see if Hearthpwn has anything similar.
https://tempostorm.com/hearthstone/decks/neviilz-echo-giants-mage
Chugga chugga chugga chugga
Looks like it's using a lot of the ideas that I've been trying. Is there anything higher than 60? Can any class/deck get higher than 60 vs Zoolock?
In my opinion, 60-40 is already pretty good; high-tier decks don't have many <40% matchups.
Sadly, Flamewaker Mage is your only mage option (with a purported rate of 65-35). If you're willing to try other classes, Patron Warrior crushes Zoolock. You should be aware that this is simply one source of data (though I feel it's a reliable one). Other sites may report different matchup statistics.
Source: https://tempostorm.com/articles/meta-snapshot-19-from-warrior-to-warrior-and-back-again#matchups
Chugga chugga chugga chugga
In my opinion, I think that 60-40 is terrible when your goal is to make a hard counter. You've provided some good information, though; thanks for that. As suspected, warrior is really the only viable option--as it tends to be in every discussion regarding control'ish counter decks.
As a Midrange Zoolock player myself I can confirm that Tempo Mages don't counter my deck unless I have extremely bad hand.
It goes that way - I play Nerubian Egg and Imp Gang Boss and they already have hard time removing these cards. I don't even mention Voidcaller shenanigans, you see the picture.
The Freeze Mages are actually harder because they effectively remove my creatures and have strong late game spells.
I've tried every variant of freeze I can think of and the hero power is just too difficult to keep up with. Without topdecking repeatedly, I'm always overwhelmed courtesy of the hero power. In all honesty, it feels like mage is pretty much unplayable on ranked due to 70%+ of the matches being against zoolock.
What is your most feared deck, control warrior?
The strength of zoo lies in the fact that it is a solid all around deck that has a chance to win any matchup. It doesn't have any unwinnable matchups like some other decks. That said....some priest builds should have a 65-70% winrate, and freeze mage should be a solid counter too.
My most feared class is Druid actually. They always have answers in early game, they play Taunt with Innervate, later they just roll all over you with FoN and Savage Roar.
At least Control and Grim Patron Warrior can be outraced and killed before they play something really good.
I really have troubles with Druids, man.
Time to make a druid. Thanks.
Good luck out there, buddy.
I think Patron is kind of tricky as Zoo. They basically have to blank on weapons, and even then acolyte, armorsmith and task master trade favorably and keep you from attacking face. Then again I play aggro zoo, not the midrange with voidcallers/Malganis- maybe that's slightly better.
I am the worst druid player in the world, but Zoo runs me over unless I get some insane value swipe and they stall. Obviously god start with coin wild growth- into innervate shenanigans being the exception.
Midrange Druid is a huge underdog against Zoo.... the heavier taunt version might be a little better, but I don't know if its the best zoo counter. Check Tempostorms matchups index on their meta snapshot. I think there are a couple errors this week, but its pretty good overall.
They list patron warrior, paladin, tempo mage, and handlock as favorable matchups against zoo, and that seems right to me. Priest isn't listed, because its not a common deck right now, but I think priest is the overall best counter to zoo.
Face Hunter
I can see this being true. Benn running into Deathlord priests that look like they would smash zoo.
Just looking at the replies in this thread it, looks like zoo doesn't have any bad matchups. I don't think any other deck in the game can say the same. Jeez, do I loathe zoolocks.
Playing Zoo at rank 5-6. Here's my impressive consecutive loss list. So pick one of these and try out your RnG.
Facehunter: He combos Juggler into Unleash on turn 5 vs. my 6 minion board (I was trying to play around flame trap). All his juggles hit face or my implosions imps, niether of my 2 eggs are broken.
Patron Warrior. Typical loss, was running him over until he drops Thaurrisan and I have to deal with it. Had to gamble he didn't have Patron+warsong in hand because nothing in my hand was playable into patron besides Doomguard. Gamble didn't pay off.
Oil Rogue: Gets both is blade flurrys without needing to sprint, saps my Sea Giant, never get another board
Mech Mage. Perfect curve. Cog Master > Chugger > Shredder, Gets Iron Juggernaut from his unstable, Blastmage, Boom on 7
Mech Mage. Coins Warper into turn 2 Warper + Spider Tank. Turn 3 Yeti + Gnome.... yeah, ggZoolock: His start beats my start. T1: Flame imp T2: Leper gnome + Voidwalker T3: Gang boss T4: Shredder
Freezemage: Actually won this one.
This deck does well against Zoo
only those with Straw in their heads fear the Spark of Truth