Hey, I have a question for those of you who play Big Spell Mage - when you play against Shudderwock shaman, do you concede immediately? Or do you play and actually try to win? And if you keep playing, how often do you win against them? Because I feel like it's the unwinnable match up 99 % of the time.
I play knowing that if I bait out their aoe, and play a big Alanna turn, they can't deal with it. It's unfavarouable, but I've seen threads where shudderwock shaman players complain that Alanna is impossible to remove, and it can deal up to 33 damage. However, double volcano or lightning storm into volcano ruins the plan, so you really have to play the tempo game to try to bait their removal.
You have to play at least like 5 big spells in order to have impressive Alanna which takes quite a few turns and then you have to have Alanna on hand (which all seems quite difficult to get) and by that time, they usually have their combo together.
I know that there is a chance to win, but there is much bigger chance to lose and to me it just seems like a waste of time (especially considering that these match ups are usually quite long and in times it takes me to (usually) lose one game against shudderwock, I could win (or lose) 2 games against some other decks).
Lul trust me, remove all the value cards (Lich King, Alanna, Sindragosa etc.) and add the Exodia Package. Then add more draws and you've done (I also run double ice barrier and arcanologist to survive agianst aggro). Keep all AoEs and Hard Removal but remove Vodoo Dolls (Keep DK Jaina of course). In this way you ve a deck that s good against aggro, midrange, control and combo (the last because if you set up your combo you can deal an infinite amount of damage and you have more card draws than your opponent).
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"The flow of time is always cruel... its speed seems different for each person, but no one can change it... A thing that does not change with time is a memory of younger days..."
Trump seemed to have success against shudderwock decks by including Prince Keleseth to generate minion pressure early on. But that is just what I saw in some vids on youtube. I do not have any experience in playing BSM.
You're right, it's unfavourable as hell, and the only chance of winning is 1) somehow you tempo out well compared to them (good luck playing tempo with BSM) and kill them, 2) their shudderwock combo whiffs, or 3) Alanna kills them.
Alanna is a legendary, and so is Shudderwock, so you have a 50% chance of drawing Alanna before them, and they also need to draw Grumble and a few other combo pieces, so it's actually more likely you can set up first. But yes, playing a bunch of big spells takes a while, and there is always the chance that they can still clear. Like you said, it's a small chance to win, and I can understand if you concede.
well it's super unfavorable so you should be losing most of the time under normal circumstances and it's out of your control really, but there's always the chance for your opponent to do something really stupid or the chance of the battlecries going the wrong way and they end up with no shudders on hand so you can maybe clear them with a fury and win from there, you should probably still play the match-up, you never know but here are some tips that help a bit:
Play for absolute tempo, just hard mulligan for minions and play for maximum tempo, push face and only trade the mana tides, also stonehill is bad tempo but he can give you big taunts that can bait out frogs and volcanoes and that's fantastic if your late game big punchers are safe from those.
Try to save a fury for the shudders, if they get the combo right there's close to nothing you can do or probably could do to make this any different, that deck is supposed to beat decks like BSM so don't feel bad, but there's always the chance of both zola and grumble going before the chain gand and at that point if you clear the wocks you win, they have no win condition and you can just heal with your water elementals. + Their board are usually not scary enough to have to use both furys really.
As I said try to bait out the storms and volcanoes, big drops like lich king and sindi are great for this match-up (you should definitely play both if there's a lot of shudder on the ladder, also druids) but the prime one on this game is Alanna, you should play as many big spells as possible, even going for blizzard or flamestrike on an empty board is fine if you need more alanna activations but you need to make sure he's out of storms (Which most shudder noobs tend to throw away like it wasn't important and try to bait out at least 1 volcano, if you get like 4 dragons or more you're safe from a volcano but they can always drop 2 in a row or just volcano into storm, if your alanna turn is good you can still win no matter what but it isn't easy to set it up
The secret grill can be very powerful, you just try to maximaze either tempo or value with her, either is good, stuff like counter spell or mana bind are not good as they have cheap spells to trigger those and you could end up with crap in your hand, also vaporize is terrible, their minions are usually small and this match-up is not about dying to regular dmg, it's about killing the shaman before they can infinite combo so barrier is also trash, for those reasons runes is ok as it deals heavy damage to them and helps you with amazing tempo but the absolute winner and the one you should always pick if offered is definitely bender, it cock blocks their blots and earth shocks but most important their frogs, they only have bolts and shocks to test for this secret so it can lead to very awkward turns for them where they have to be extremely mana inneficient and waste resources just to frog a threat, all this should allow you to develop better tempo.
**EDIT: Forgot to say this is one of the match-ups you absolutely need Jaina on 9, if you don't get her on like turns 9-11 you probably lose regardless, the water elis pressure a lot and can force out emergency removal for them, making your other minions better, you should try your best to generate elis every turn so yeah, hard mull for jaina and minions.
Shudder will win if you can not generate enough Pressure to kill them, so unless you are Burn Mage, yes you are going to lose to Shudder assuming you are playing against a decent player.
Same goes for Priest and Warrior they almost have no chance.
I played twice as SW against Alanna. First time I was very unlucky because all of my combo cards were in the bottom of the deck and I couldn't do a thing, second time it was very easy to handle her as I already played Hagatha, so I had 6 AOE damage to every minion (SW for 9 then SW for 1). On average tho I think you should not waste every removal in the early game
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Hey, I have a question for those of you who play Big Spell Mage - when you play against Shudderwock shaman, do you concede immediately? Or do you play and actually try to win? And if you keep playing, how often do you win against them? Because I feel like it's the unwinnable match up 99 % of the time.
I play knowing that if I bait out their aoe, and play a big Alanna turn, they can't deal with it. It's unfavarouable, but I've seen threads where shudderwock shaman players complain that Alanna is impossible to remove, and it can deal up to 33 damage. However, double volcano or lightning storm into volcano ruins the plan, so you really have to play the tempo game to try to bait their removal.
play it thru since people tend to fuck up shuttlecock combo quite often
You have to play at least like 5 big spells in order to have impressive Alanna which takes quite a few turns and then you have to have Alanna on hand (which all seems quite difficult to get) and by that time, they usually have their combo together.
I know that there is a chance to win, but there is much bigger chance to lose and to me it just seems like a waste of time (especially considering that these match ups are usually quite long and in times it takes me to (usually) lose one game against shudderwock, I could win (or lose) 2 games against some other decks).
Lul trust me, remove all the value cards (Lich King, Alanna, Sindragosa etc.) and add the Exodia Package. Then add more draws and you've done (I also run double ice barrier and arcanologist to survive agianst aggro). Keep all AoEs and Hard Removal but remove Vodoo Dolls (Keep DK Jaina of course). In this way you ve a deck that s good against aggro, midrange, control and combo (the last because if you set up your combo you can deal an infinite amount of damage and you have more card draws than your opponent).
"The flow of time is always cruel... its speed seems different for each person, but no one can change it... A thing that does not change with time is a memory of younger days..."
Trump seemed to have success against shudderwock decks by including Prince Keleseth to generate minion pressure early on. But that is just what I saw in some vids on youtube. I do not have any experience in playing BSM.
You're right, it's unfavourable as hell, and the only chance of winning is 1) somehow you tempo out well compared to them (good luck playing tempo with BSM) and kill them, 2) their shudderwock combo whiffs, or 3) Alanna kills them.
Alanna is a legendary, and so is Shudderwock, so you have a 50% chance of drawing Alanna before them, and they also need to draw Grumble and a few other combo pieces, so it's actually more likely you can set up first. But yes, playing a bunch of big spells takes a while, and there is always the chance that they can still clear. Like you said, it's a small chance to win, and I can understand if you concede.
well it's super unfavorable so you should be losing most of the time under normal circumstances and it's out of your control really, but there's always the chance for your opponent to do something really stupid or the chance of the battlecries going the wrong way and they end up with no shudders on hand so you can maybe clear them with a fury and win from there, you should probably still play the match-up, you never know but here are some tips that help a bit:
**EDIT: Forgot to say this is one of the match-ups you absolutely need Jaina on 9, if you don't get her on like turns 9-11 you probably lose regardless, the water elis pressure a lot and can force out emergency removal for them, making your other minions better, you should try your best to generate elis every turn so yeah, hard mull for jaina and minions.
Shudder will win if you can not generate enough Pressure to kill them, so unless you are Burn Mage, yes you are going to lose to Shudder assuming you are playing against a decent player.
Same goes for Priest and Warrior they almost have no chance.
This is rare but sometimes you can cause them to burn critical cards by abusing acolyte of pain when they play it.
I played twice as SW against Alanna. First time I was very unlucky because all of my combo cards were in the bottom of the deck and I couldn't do a thing, second time it was very easy to handle her as I already played Hagatha, so I had 6 AOE damage to every minion (SW for 9 then SW for 1). On average tho I think you should not waste every removal in the early game