I like what you are saying and the justification for your decisions.
I do have a couple of questions though, how do you intend to grind out your opponent when you are giving them the early to mid-game. Surely you play catch up and then have to get lucky with Frost Lich Jaina?
I say this as Fire Fly, Pyros, and Tar Creeper are your 1-3 three slots which is alright, if you get all three in your hand but with only 5 cards to cover these slots you don't stand a good chance of curving out the beginning...
Then you don't have catch up until Muck Hunter and Meteor, the 5-6 slots.
I'm thinking that in order to have a grindy mage with this expansion, you need Baku the Mooneater...
Thinking about it more I'm going to include Doomsayer which will help us have a more consistent early game where you can then start curving elementals into the midgame. We also have Primordial Glyph and Book of Specters to play on two which both can help us have a solid turn 3 (discounted spell or drawing things like Tar Creeper). Other than that its possible that we need to include Plated Beetle in order to further help against aggro which even now is being done in mage deck to help them survive. Of course that does involve cutting some cards but I think things like Servant of Kalimos, Zola the Gorgon, and (possibly 1 or 2) Voodoo Doll could be removed in place of Doomsayer and Plated Beetle so I guess it would come down to which type of deck you would want to have a better match up against.
I think Glacial Shard is to low impact of a card to really justify an inclusion in this deck. Although it is a cheap elemental it only has 1 hp and offers little value to us outside of early on with doomsayer (which with rotation doomsayer won't really die on turn 2 outside of very specific circumstances that involves some heavy rng) or in the late game with Jania meaning it can very likely be a below average 1 drop we have to play out in the midgame. Firefly is really the only 1 drop right now I can see working in this deck since we can play it turn 1 and still have an elemental to play out later on when we need to chain them.
Also I just think Servant of Kalimos is a good value card but is low impact for a turn 5 play as a 4/5 is not very good and he only offers us a random elemental which outside of Blazecaller (which we can't even follow up with since it costs 7) the elementals do almost nothing to make up the tempo loss of playing servant.. On the other hand Bonfire Elemental although losing us some tempo draws a card from our deck which can be not elemental cards like Meteor which can make up for the tempo lost playing bonfire (and a 5/5 is just the right amount of stats on turn 5 for trading since it kills most 3-4 drops and several 5 drops evenly where as sometimes they against servant).
I'm digging the use of Dragon's Fury without doubling down on the Big Spell as we havn't got a suitable replacement yet
Clockwork Automaton's an interesting card. Potentially really strong but I've yet to be convinced it will stick about
Only real criticism is Explosive Runes, it has no place in your deck.
Thanks! The Explosive Runes was filler,i had 2 spaces left in the deck so i thought i would put something else than 2x Arcane Intellect so i put one of each.
Interesting includes here, abomination for early control with dude paladin. Shimmering tempest for spells. Baron Geddon seems like an auto include. We
Abomination is to expensive to really be called early control against vs dude pally and really Doomsayer is just better if you're looking for early game control. I also think Spiteful Summoner isn't that good if you're running Book of Specters as low rolling with spiteful is really bad for you. I think you should either toss book and try to find minions that draw or toss sptieful and include some different more flexible spells like Primordial Glyph.
So the main idea is that I have 2 win conditions: Frost Lich Jaina and Malygos. The DK is obvious, Maly is another story. We want to play 2x Steam Surgers then a Leyline Manipulator so we have a 14 damage burst with Malygos. With the help of the spellstone, glyph, Servant of Kalimos, Arugal, Zola and Arfus, there is a good chance for an actual OTK.
This is still a WIP theorycraft, but I play something similar on ladder and I can safely say that its favored against cubelock and other control decks. The only issue is aggro, but there are some non-spell based tech cards that could be included like Mind Control Tech. Also if we really need a polymorph effect without using the spell, Tinkmaster Overspark is an option.
To start I think testing a deck on ladder right now is not going to show how good the deck is since we have a rotation happening so the meta game is going to change massively with witchwood (plus you also can't use the new cards which is important)
However I think its a cool direction you've taken the deck in but I think cards like Lesser Ruby Spellstone, Shimmering Tempest and Arfus are bad inclusions to the deck since they offer random spells that might not even work with malygos or they might just be useless in general. Then the issue of Malygos only being able to burst 14 after jumping through several hoops makes it seem not that good (and random cards that deal damage and happen to be cheap enough to use aren't considered because trying to rng your way to a win won't work alot of the time).
I would probably just run Pyroblast as it is 4 damage less but very consistent and requires next to no set up outside of having 10 mana. If you do that consider making the deck more tempo oriented with maybe something like Aluneth and a secret package and turn it into a tempo elemental deck. Also you should probably run Doomsayer and Plated Beetle to help vs aggro so you don't die. Again its a cool idea but I think its quite a stretch to really make work but you have fun trying it out when witchwood drops!
About the Countess Ashmore drawing thing, I don't think it would really work with Lifesteal generated by Frost Lich Jaina, because it's an area effect. In actual game, silencing an elemental affected by that area won't make it stop lifestealing, so, I think it's not considered a property from the original printed card, but an effect added when they are played with a Frost Lich Jaina active.
You guys kidding right? The kind of versatility that Arcane Keysmith brings is exactly what minion-based mage decks needed. Here's my take at a non-spiteful elemental mage:
Now because we can discover the secret we should in theory be able to get a good secret almost every time. However because the secrets vary wildly in purpose and uses we may not always get what we need for the current situation. Overall it's definitely not bad in the right deck. However elemental mage probably is not the deck for it. We already have a good amount of 4 drops to choose from and this might not synergize enough to warrant a spot in this deck. Although it does offer us some possible tempo I'm not sold on elemental mage running it but I think that it is something to look into.
You guys kidding right? The kind of versatility that Arcane Keysmith brings is exactly what minion-based mage decks needed. Here's my take at a non-spiteful elemental mage:
Not entirely sure if taking out Tol'vir Stoneshaper was the best choice though, but AK can be good against aggro too, will see.
I'm curious as to why you have 2 Pyroblast in the deck. That deck doesn't seem to have enough tempo in order to justify running a finisher like Pyro in it. I'm also not sold on Mountain Giant as currently the issue I'm seeing is a lack of defensive options in the deck. That deck has Doomsayer and Tar Creeper as its early game which isn't alot. I think Primordial Glyph would replace Pyroblast nicely since it can be used early on while still sometimes offering that burn you need in the late game. I also have a personal distaste for Servant of Kalimos which you can see in my previous comments of this thread. Otherwise it seems like a somewhat solid deck.
Now because we can discover the secret we should in theory be able to get a good secret almost every time. However because the secrets vary wildly in purpose and uses we may not always get what we need for the current situation. Overall it's definitely not bad in the right deck. However elemental mage is not the deck for it. We already have a good amount of 4 drops to choose from and this just doesn't synergize enough to warrant a spot in this deck. Although it does offer us some possible tempo if we get the right secret if we don't it's just a fair card and we don't want that really.
I had Tol'vir Stoneshaper in that place before, so i'm not losing any elementals to play AK. I could swap Pyros and 01 Pyroblast to put it back if aggro is too dominant, but I do think AK is superior. Leyline is only worth using if I include the Spellstone, and I dont think its worth it.
You guys kidding right? The kind of versatility that Arcane Keysmith brings is exactly what minion-based mage decks needed. Here's my take at a non-spiteful elemental mage:
Not entirely sure if taking out Tol'vir Stoneshaper was the best choice though, but AK can be good against aggro too, will see.
I'm curious as to why you have 2 Pyroblast in the deck. That deck doesn't seem to have enough tempo in order to justify running a finisher like Pyro in it. I'm also not sold on Mountain Giant as currently the issue I'm seeing is a lack of defensive options in the deck. That deck has Doomsayer and Tar Creeper as its early game which isn't alot. I think Primordial Glyph would replace Pyroblast nicely since it can be used early on while still sometimes offering that burn you need in the late game. I also have a personal distaste for Servant of Kalimos which you can see in my previous comments of this thread. Otherwise it seems like a somewhat solid deck.
Mountain Giant is bae, dont like my control decks too passive. But you're right, Both Kalimos AND Bonfire seems a bit overkill, will try replacing kalimos with something else. I love Pyroblast so I just have to try it out first haha, but ye if it doesnt hold up then glyph will replace it.
Now because we can discover the secret we should in theory be able to get a good secret almost every time. However because the secrets vary wildly in purpose and uses we may not always get what we need for the current situation. Overall it's definitely not bad in the right deck. However elemental mage is not the deck for it. We already have a good amount of 4 drops to choose from and this just doesn't synergize enough to warrant a spot in this deck. Although it does offer us some possible tempo if we get the right secret if we don't it's just a fair card and we don't want that really.
I had Tol'vir Stoneshaper in that place before, so i'm not losing any elementals to play AK. I could swap Pyros and 01 Pyroblast to put it back if aggro is too dominant, but I do think AK is superior. Leyline is only worth using if I include the Spellstone, and I dont think its worth it.
Isnt Shimmering Tempest better than Plated Beetle? Cheap elemental activation that contests the board early, works with Leyline and Frost Jaina. Plated Beetle is pretty bad in late game.
Leyline is just so good when played with Spellstone, playing w/o it seems underwhelming to me.
Isnt Shimmering Tempest better than Plated Beetle? Cheap elemental activation that contests the board early, works with Leyline and Frost Jaina. Plated Beetle is pretty bad in late game.
Leyline is just so good when played with Spellstone, playing w/o it seems underwhelming to me.
Shimmering Tempest is to weak a body and not the best of effects to really be used and hasn't seen any play since un goro and even back then it was cut quite quickly. Plated Beetle however has been a favored anti aggro tool throughout kobolds and catacombs because a 2/3 that heals for 3 turned out to be good enough. Granted beetle isn't best in the late game (neither is tempest for that matter just run Loot Hoarder if you want a 2/1) but when you play beetle you play it to help against aggro which it will do way better than tempest ever can.
I think people focus to much on Lesser Ruby Spellstone which is honestly terrible. It requires drawing it, than play several elemental minions to upgrade, and only then can you get value from it which is a couple random spells. Primordial Glyph is just better in pretty much every way as 1. it requires no set up and 2. you can use it early on to help vs aggro. An un-upgraded spellstone is awful to play while glyph is always good (and less random). Leyline Manipulator however usually is gonna find something to hit and even if it doesn't a 4/5 for 4 is vanilla stats that also allows us to start chaining elementals. I think leyline does just enough to warrant a spot in the deck. Just imagine Archmage Arugal and Book of Specters drawing us 6 minions and then we discount 3 of them with a leyline. Although that is best case scenario there are plenty of times where leyline will discount something even if it is only 1 card its still good.
@FunPolice749 alright man, you convinced me on Glyph and Leyline, but I think this is enough to get me through the early game, no beetle. Hope they give elemental a win condition other than pure value in this expansion though.
@FunPolice749 alright man, you convinced me on Glyph and Leyline, but I think this is enough to get me through the early game, no beetle. Hope they give elemental a win condition other than pure value in this expansion though.
Looks very good! I would change very little and this is seems like a very nice focused elemental mage. If aggro proves to be a problem Plated Beetle and Doomsayer both offer ways to improve the match up. Also don't be afraid to experiment with cards. Like I'm toying with an elemental deck that has Countess Ashmore and some minions for her to draw whether its better than a more standard build (like yours) will be figured out but it at least seems fun.
TBH, I am not sold on this version of my theory deck. But I am sold on a few changes I made to the formula. Most notably I made the call to include the Open the Waygate package. I think there is far too much aversion to playing Time Warp when one does not OTK the opponent, but it is honestly a really cheap deckbuilding cost for what is basically a much, much better version of Bloodlust. You play out cards, you build up a force, you attack over two turns while your opponent can't react. If it doesn't give you lethal it can tilt the game heavily in your favor or give you a chance to play a 4 or 5 attack minion into Frost Lich Jaina when you would otherwise be dead as a doorknob.
My bigger problem looking at it is getting the right mix of different cards and what cards will be good or bad. Cards like Blazecaller while amazing on paper have time and time again shown to just not be good enough. Maybe it's because the supporting deck isn't there, maybe it's because the card just is bad. Personally, I'm eyeing up Rush cards to replace Blazecaller. Obviously I would like a bit more rush if we have Countess Ashmore. Rush alleviates the desire to have cards like Poly and Fireball to deal with minions and being able to pick up Voodoo Doll is just so good. Yes, I am kinda banking on Lifesteal pick up working with Frost Lich Jaina which it might not, butitreallyshouldanditwouldbedumbnotto. Your elementals have Lifesteal is not an ambiguous statement!
Maybe increase the deathrattle count with Arfus to synergize with the Time Warp? I, however, am very very wary of going full combo and attempting to win that way. I just don't think there's the space to give up the tempo if you draw combo pieces. But, even with as little as there is if you get a single discount on Time Warp you can play it the same turn as Archmage Antonidas for a nice and easy 18 damage minicombo. (Assuming you have both Sorcerer's Apprentice.) If you want to get fancy then holding cards can get you to a 24 damage combo, a 30 damage combo if you hit any combo piece with Archmage Arugal, a 30+ combo with hitting Archmage Antonidas with Archmage Arugal and then multiple Leyline Manipulator or infinite with a lucky Archmage Arugal. Again, you shouldn't FOCUS on combo, but at very little deckbuilding cost it exists and can win matchups that the rest of the deck's Tempo core looses in. Every piece on its own is valuable enough to play in Tempo already.
Mine:
Interesting includes here, abomination for early control with dude paladin. Shimmering tempest for spells. Baron Geddon seems like an auto include. We
Tier 4. Draw really doesn't help Elemental Mage unless it gets stronger early game tempo minions.
Here is my Burgle-Rogue for Wild
You guys kidding right? The kind of versatility that Arcane Keysmith brings is exactly what minion-based mage decks needed. Here's my take at a non-spiteful elemental mage:
Not entirely sure if taking out Tol'vir Stoneshaper was the best choice though, but AK can be good against aggro too, will see.
So looking at Arcane Keysmith we have a total of 7 secrets which are:
Counterspell, Explosive Runes, Frozen Clone, Ice Barrier, Mana Bind, Mirror Entity, Spellbender, and Vaporize
Now because we can discover the secret we should in theory be able to get a good secret almost every time. However because the secrets vary wildly in purpose and uses we may not always get what we need for the current situation. Overall it's definitely not bad in the right deck. However elemental mage probably is not the deck for it. We already have a good amount of 4 drops to choose from and this might not synergize enough to warrant a spot in this deck. Although it does offer us some possible tempo I'm not sold on elemental mage running it but I think that it is something to look into.
@FunPolice749 alright man, you convinced me on Glyph and Leyline, but I think this is enough to get me through the early game, no beetle. Hope they give elemental a win condition other than pure value in this expansion though.
I might as well throw my own deck into the ring.
TBH, I am not sold on this version of my theory deck. But I am sold on a few changes I made to the formula. Most notably I made the call to include the Open the Waygate package. I think there is far too much aversion to playing Time Warp when one does not OTK the opponent, but it is honestly a really cheap deckbuilding cost for what is basically a much, much better version of Bloodlust. You play out cards, you build up a force, you attack over two turns while your opponent can't react. If it doesn't give you lethal it can tilt the game heavily in your favor or give you a chance to play a 4 or 5 attack minion into Frost Lich Jaina when you would otherwise be dead as a doorknob.
My bigger problem looking at it is getting the right mix of different cards and what cards will be good or bad. Cards like Blazecaller while amazing on paper have time and time again shown to just not be good enough. Maybe it's because the supporting deck isn't there, maybe it's because the card just is bad. Personally, I'm eyeing up Rush cards to replace Blazecaller. Obviously I would like a bit more rush if we have Countess Ashmore. Rush alleviates the desire to have cards like Poly and Fireball to deal with minions and being able to pick up Voodoo Doll is just so good. Yes, I am kinda banking on Lifesteal pick up working with Frost Lich Jaina which it might not, butitreallyshouldanditwouldbedumbnotto. Your elementals have Lifesteal is not an ambiguous statement!
Maybe increase the deathrattle count with Arfus to synergize with the Time Warp? I, however, am very very wary of going full combo and attempting to win that way. I just don't think there's the space to give up the tempo if you draw combo pieces. But, even with as little as there is if you get a single discount on Time Warp you can play it the same turn as Archmage Antonidas for a nice and easy 18 damage minicombo. (Assuming you have both Sorcerer's Apprentice.) If you want to get fancy then holding cards can get you to a 24 damage combo, a 30 damage combo if you hit any combo piece with Archmage Arugal, a 30+ combo with hitting Archmage Antonidas with Archmage Arugal and then multiple Leyline Manipulator or infinite with a lucky Archmage Arugal. Again, you shouldn't FOCUS on combo, but at very little deckbuilding cost it exists and can win matchups that the rest of the deck's Tempo core looses in. Every piece on its own is valuable enough to play in Tempo already.
Here's my take
Note: Zola may be a good card to add in depends on how the meta goes. Not sure if the win condition is sufficient though.