@TheMortonatorIt's late so I'm to tired to type a full review but in short:
The entire Open the Waygate package won't work as even with a deck built specifically to OTK you is a tier 4 deck. Simply losing 1 card in your opening hand is just to much of a risk to even try playing it. It also makes you run bad cards like Shimmering Tempest and Lesser Ruby Spellstone which over several previous posts I've talked about why they are really bad so just look at those. On top of that I think you're pulling yourself in to many directions and that's gonna lead to a inconsistent deck. Elementals won't work in a quest mage deck so I think the best course is to drop the quest and its support and focus on elementals and or some other less restrictive package to run. And Frost Lich Jania will win slower matchups on her own to the point I really doubt you need the quest and otk potential to close out games.
I think the deck I posted before is closer to what an elemental deck looking to play with Countess Ashmore should be like. As it has 2 goals either you tempo out the opponent or you eventually grind them out with Frost Lich Jania of which Jania does this grinder package almost all by herself (even though we do run a few things like Polymorph and Voodoo Doll that pairs really well with her). For example Muck Hunter is just better in a mage deck than swift messanger since you can ping off the 2/1s and make water elementals later on.
@TheMortonatorIt's late so I'm to tired to type a full review but in short:
I apperciate the feedback, but on a basic level I disagree with +3 spells for 2 mana being bad. Furthermore, I explained in my post why I think people overlook the quest by expecting too much value out of it. Yes, starting a card down is a cost. It might be the cost that keeps my varient down. But frankly, without quest elemental mage is just bad period. I don't think all these pushes for minion based Mage can possibly fix just not having the minions to make the deck work. Elemental mage lacks real late game and doesn't have the teeth of decks like secret mage.
Basically, in my opinion if you want to run mage without quest don't run elementals. If your goal is to win through Frost Lich alone then that tactic is better supported by making a legit control deck. Having a super cheap trigger for quest is the only "unfair" things elementals do. Arguably neutral non-elemental minions outclass elementals in the elemental deck.
...also don't underestimate 2/1 draw a random mage card when you have Frost Lich. The target is just nice. Possibly nice enough an ideal deck has Loot Hoader in it.
Do you really need that many card draws though? Can’t you replace the book of specters with ruby spellstones? I just started so i don’t really what I’m doing
I have a similar list so I'm curious, why Dragon's Fury? It's riskier since you're running a 2-cost spell, and it nukes your field too. Flamestrike seems better, also makes Spiteful more consistent.
Thalnos with just 2 damage spells is bad, I'd find spot for 2 Fire Fly, cant really play an elemental deck w/o it, increases consistency by a lot.
Forgot about the Amalgam, just the 3-drop I was looking for my list, thanks.
Just a question. How do you folks plan on keep your hand free and not overdraw? With the combos you guys suggest, it's pretty much "draw 6 cards". Since I do like Ele mage, and play it for the lulz, I can pretty much say you do not have neither mana nor time to play all the cards you get.
I could see this be used in a combo situation, but in pure minion and specially elemental environment, dont see it happening at all.
Tho, only some insane Leyline Manipulator value can be obtained, but again...hardly
I think we have to compromise here. Book of Specters and Spiteful Summoner are just horrible together, add the risk of discarding your boardclear and finisher and it just becomes unbearable. But, there are no minion draw sources fast enough to combo with Arugal, so I've settled for Arcane Intellect.
Getting a 3-drop from Spiteful once in a while sucks, but it sucks less than getting a 2-drop.
@TheMortonatorIt's late so I'm to tired to type a full review but in short:
I apperciate the feedback, but on a basic level I disagree with +3 spells for 2 mana being bad. Furthermore, I explained in my post why I think people overlook the quest by expecting too much value out of it. Yes, starting a card down is a cost. It might be the cost that keeps my varient down. But frankly, without quest elemental mage is just bad period. I don't think all these pushes for minion based Mage can possibly fix just not having the minions to make the deck work. Elemental mage lacks real late game and doesn't have the teeth of decks like secret mage.
Basically, in my opinion if you want to run mage without quest don't run elementals. If your goal is to win through Frost Lich alone then that tactic is better supported by making a legit control deck. Having a super cheap trigger for quest is the only "unfair" things elementals do. Arguably neutral non-elemental minions outclass elementals in the elemental deck.
...also don't underestimate 2/1 draw a random mage card when you have Frost Lich. The target is just nice. Possibly nice enough an ideal deck has Loot Hoader in it.
Lesser Ruby Spellstone is a card that requires alot of setup to be a 2 mana Cabalist's Tome. Namely you need to draw the spellstone and then actually play 4 elementals while holding on to it to upgrade it. Even then after upgrading random spells just really aren't the best pay off for how much set up you need to do for it. Then the issue of the spellstone being useless against aggro comes up since you won't be able to upgrade it before dying and the fact that random spells don't help against aggro. I would just compare it to Primordial Glyph which although maybe not generating as much value in a slower game does 2 very important things. 1. It gives flexibility for when we need a spell to deal with aggro or if we need an answer to some big threat (we have some control over what we get) and 2. It can be played early on with no downside and requires zero setup to be useful.
You also have to remember that a rotation is happening with witchwood is going to bring down the power level by a good amount. Elemental mage is actually losing no key cards meaning it has a chance to make it as a deck. Elementals although not doing super unfair things like jade (which is rotating). However because of Frost Lich Jaina the deck actually will have some of the strongest late game a deck can have because possibly infinite water elementals and the insane amount of healing you get with jaina and all the minions in your deck you probably won't be dying until fatigue vs other control decks. I think building around the quest is also a poor choice because of how much you need to invest into it to get it done and then for what? The mage equivalent of Bloodlust? And if you go the otk way why even include elementals at all then? I think curving elementals and getting an advantage while then using the raw power of Jaina is unfair enough to be good in witchwood.
I can't comment on whether or not control mage is just better than elemental mage but because blizzard seems to be pushing a minion based mage and elementals seems like a solid way to build towards that. Archmage Arugal and Book of Specters both have high potential in an elemental deck as you can chain elemental off them very consistently (you have more elemental in hand so you can keep playing them every turn in order to set up for the next elemental). And the last thing is Shimmering Tempest which is just bad. It hasn't seen any play throughout standard play even way back when only ungoro was out and the quest was being run more often. Simply put the card offers a bad body and a lackluster effect (a random mage spell isn't enough to justify it) and if you're looking for a minion worth using with Frost Lich Jaina then Voodoo Doll is probably the best choice or as you said Loot Hoarder is also just better.
I think we have to compromise here. Book of Specters and Spiteful Summoner are just horrible together, add the risk of discarding your boardclear and finisher and it just becomes unbearable. But, there are no minion draw sources fast enough to combo with Arugal, so I've settled for Arcane Intellect.
Getting a 3-drop from Spiteful once in a while sucks, but it sucks less than getting a 2-drop.
I think if you're trying to run a spiteful package then we probably want to be a tempo deck. So maybe something like Aluneth would be good to help us finish out games. Elementals is an alright way to go but I think we need to full commit to tempo and remove most of the slow value in the deck. So things like Archmage Arugal and (I'm serious here) Frost Lich Jaina should be removed and replace them with faster/better tempo cards. Arcane Keysmith is probably something we want to have since it offers us some secrets that we can't run with spiteful. I'm not entirely sure what else could be included I think by going more tempo we can take more wins then by middling between control and tempo.
I think if you're trying to run a spiteful package then we probably want to be a tempo deck. So maybe something like Aluneth would be good to help us finish out games. Elementals is an alright way to go but I think we need to full commit to tempo and remove most of the slow value in the deck. So things like Archmage Arugal and (I'm serious here) Frost Lich Jaina should be removed and replace them with faster/better tempo cards. Arcane Keysmith is probably something we want to have since it offers us some secrets that we can't run with spiteful. I'm not entirely sure what else could be included I think by going more tempo we can take more wins then by middling between control and tempo.
We're trying to make Spiteful work with elemental since they both dont want to run many spells, but since they're archetypes usually played in different strategies, some compromise is needed here. I dont think you can commit 100% to one strategy if you want to play them together, at least for now.
Aluneth rule is clear: you either burn your opponent or you burn yourself, and now we dont even have Medivh to stop the madness. Since Blizz is not supporting burn spell mage anymore, I think this card is dead for standard.
I think that spiteful do not fit into this deck because when it summons a 2 cost minion from book of spectres you are probably going to lose your match and 7 drops are so bad in standard (think about lynessa or the new 3/3) so you will get 1/3 time shitty minions
if you want to play book of spectre or some other spells alongside pyroblast then you should remove spiteful summoner
You aren't looking for a good card, you are looking for an elemental to start triggers. Elemental mage needs cheap elementals. Right now the only four are Firefly, Shimmering Tempest, Tar Creeper, and Pyros which is even worse than a random spell vs aggro. You can play an elemental mage right now and see how inconsistent not having the 2/1 is. It's bad, but otherwise you are relying on drawing one of four cards.
But i am strongly in favor of voodoo doll and 1 mozzy. Its just can be a super strong combo and tag a enemy minion with it and then turn it into an ice elemental while destroying that minion is just to good to let go for me.
And dont you want to have Baron Geddon ? The heal that dude can give is just crazy. And it pisses off agro users if you need to use it at turn 7 before lich mode.
And ill probably drop blood mage in my deck for Sindragosa
Updated my deck to. Stole your arcane intellect idea.
Added Leyline Manipulator instead of bonfire. Because i want to cheat out my pyros 2 turns earlier and the sindragosa legendaries if needed.
Still doubting to change dragon fury with flamstrike..
This deck of mine. Is a try to finish them before turn 9. Bless spitefull.. or a exhaust win
1) Cubelock will continue to oppress the meta, so for now I think silence is better than removal, though voodoo doll will eventually see play in mage no doubt. Dont see a reason to play Mossy Horror when Mage has better boardclear options.
2) I dont like Baron Geddon here for the same reason I dont like Dragon's Fury, they damage my board. This deck likes to curve out so keeping your board is important.
You aren't looking for a good card, you are looking for an elemental to start triggers. Elemental mage needs cheap elementals. Right now the only four are Firefly, Shimmering Tempest, Tar Creeper, and Pyros which is even worse than a random spell vs aggro. You can play an elemental mage right now and see how inconsistent not having the 2/1 is. It's bad, but otherwise you are relying on drawing one of four cards.
You don't need many cheap elementals to start chaining really. Especially with Book of Specters coming around you should be able to quickly cycle through your deck and allow you to find those cheap elementals. Even then I would rather run a good minion instead of Shimmering Tempest even if it wasn't an elemental because if I'm putting a minion in the deck it servers a better purpose other than just being an elemental. Plus when you start chaining elementals their effects are more so for value and not for stopping aggro (outside of just Tol'vir Stoneshaper which breaks the elemental chain). So usually you should have more time find an elemental to play before you start chaining them since you only need to chain them against slower control decks.
So, you just want to play a bad tempo deck against aggro and a mild value deck against control?
I see elemental mage as more of a midrange deck that can apply pressure with minions and then if need be can use Frost Lich Jaina in the late game to out value people. With blizzard pushing a minion based mage and the fact that many of mage's powerful tempo cards are rotating (Firelands Portal, Kabal Crystal Runner etc) it seems as though elemental mage is a deck could end up working in the weaker standard environment because it loses next to nothing with the rotation. I think it has a chance but it just depends on what type of build is gonna end up being the best (more aggro with Aluneth and burn, or maybe Spiteful Summoner, or even more control oriented).
On paper wise, there are new cards printed to support the elemental mage. However, there are not enough cards to cheat the mana to out-tempo your opponent. When there is a really strong cubelock/control lock out there to punish mid-range deck, i couldn't help but to think that elemental mage could only reach tier 2 at best.
Another thing that i notice after tinkering on my elemental mage deck is that, the deck itself lack win conditions. Frost lich Jaina seems to be the only win condition. The lack of spells mean less burst potential. The elemental minions do not provide enough tempo to take over the game either, imo. The whole elemental package, even with Arugal, doesnt seem solid enough as of now.
Into 8 extra damage, or even just three small elementals on board, a free fireball. Yes it's win more, but the deck does have a need for it. Maybe just a one of, because by turn 8 you will probably have drawn it...
If you use Kalimos, 01 Cauldron is enough, but if you dont then I'd find spot for 02, kinda meh for a win condition but it's the best we've got.
Overall my excitement for Elemental Mage has decreased a bit, as with the entire expansion, but I think it can reach tier 02 with the right tech choices.
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@TheMortonator It's late so I'm to tired to type a full review but in short:
The entire Open the Waygate package won't work as even with a deck built specifically to OTK you is a tier 4 deck. Simply losing 1 card in your opening hand is just to much of a risk to even try playing it. It also makes you run bad cards like Shimmering Tempest and Lesser Ruby Spellstone which over several previous posts I've talked about why they are really bad so just look at those. On top of that I think you're pulling yourself in to many directions and that's gonna lead to a inconsistent deck. Elementals won't work in a quest mage deck so I think the best course is to drop the quest and its support and focus on elementals and or some other less restrictive package to run. And Frost Lich Jania will win slower matchups on her own to the point I really doubt you need the quest and otk potential to close out games.
I would personal drop Open the Waygate, Lesser Ruby Spellstone, Shimmering Tempest, Sorcerer's Apprentice, Archmage Antonidas, and swift messanger as all these cards are either weak, don't really synergize with the rest of the deck, or we have better things to run in place of it.
I think the deck I posted before is closer to what an elemental deck looking to play with Countess Ashmore should be like. As it has 2 goals either you tempo out the opponent or you eventually grind them out with Frost Lich Jania of which Jania does this grinder package almost all by herself (even though we do run a few things like Polymorph and Voodoo Doll that pairs really well with her). For example Muck Hunter is just better in a mage deck than swift messanger since you can ping off the 2/1s and make water elementals later on.
My take on elemental mage starring Countess Ashmore and voodoo doll.
[deck]AAECAf0EBgAAysECwsMCtMQCm9MCDAAAAACLA5fBAsLBAuvCAsrDAsjHApbTAs3rAgA=[/deck]
Do you really need that many card draws though? Can’t you replace the book of specters with ruby spellstones? I just started so i don’t really what I’m doing
Just a question. How do you folks plan on keep your hand free and not overdraw?
With the combos you guys suggest, it's pretty much "draw 6 cards".
Since I do like Ele mage, and play it for the lulz, I can pretty much say you do not have neither mana
nor time to play all the cards you get.
I could see this be used in a combo situation, but in pure minion and specially elemental environment, dont see it happening at all.
Tho, only some insane Leyline Manipulator value can be obtained, but again...hardly
@Delfunk83 updated my list:
I think we have to compromise here. Book of Specters and Spiteful Summoner are just horrible together, add the risk of discarding your boardclear and finisher and it just becomes unbearable. But, there are no minion draw sources fast enough to combo with Arugal, so I've settled for Arcane Intellect.
Getting a 3-drop from Spiteful once in a while sucks, but it sucks less than getting a 2-drop.
here is mine
Skidaddle skidoodle your Milhouse manastorm is now a noodle
here is my version
I hink that spiteful is too slow and situational and will be wrecked by murloc lplayers so I created THE MURLOC ELEMENTAL MAGE!
Where Finja shines because of polymorph and will usually bring down the amalgam for a huge tempo swing
I think that spiteful do not fit into this deck because when it summons a 2 cost minion from book of spectres you are probably going to lose your match and 7 drops are so bad in standard (think about lynessa or the new 3/3) so you will get 1/3 time shitty minions
if you want to play book of spectre or some other spells alongside pyroblast then you should remove spiteful summoner
You aren't looking for a good card, you are looking for an elemental to start triggers. Elemental mage needs cheap elementals. Right now the only four are Firefly, Shimmering Tempest, Tar Creeper, and Pyros which is even worse than a random spell vs aggro. You can play an elemental mage right now and see how inconsistent not having the 2/1 is. It's bad, but otherwise you are relying on drawing one of four cards.
So, you just want to play a bad tempo deck against aggro and a mild value deck against control?
On paper wise, there are new cards printed to support the elemental mage. However, there are not enough cards to cheat the mana to out-tempo your opponent. When there is a really strong cubelock/control lock out there to punish mid-range deck, i couldn't help but to think that elemental mage could only reach tier 2 at best.
Another thing that i notice after tinkering on my elemental mage deck is that, the deck itself lack win conditions. Frost lich Jaina seems to be the only win condition. The lack of spells mean less burst potential. The elemental minions do not provide enough tempo to take over the game either, imo. The whole elemental package, even with Arugal, doesnt seem solid enough as of now.