Recently, during my ladder climb, I found that one of the only decks that seemed to cause me a fair amount of grief when trying to beat was Frost Lich Jaina and her army of lifestealing elemental goons. It was incredibly hard at times to out-value her elementals with most decks I played.
So I thought about looking up the tier list to see how well she was faring as a deck generally. And I am somewhat surprised to note that she doesn't even appear to feature on October's Metabomb tier deck list... like, at all! http://www.metabomb.net/hearthstone/gameplay-guides/hearthstone-deck-tier-list-39 (Unless I am missing it somewhere on there perhaps)
So, I am left to wonder - did I fall a little too much for the hype surrounding her? Was crafting the frost queen a mistake maybe? I guess it doesn't hurt to have her available. Or maybe my recent deck build is simply lacking and I need to rework it to make it stronger...?
With Frost Lich Jaina I find that she is best in a deck as a standalone instead of flooding the deck with elementals. The elemental package just simply isn't strong enough really and the more elementals you put in, the poorer the quality of your deck is getting. That's why cards like Sindragosa aren't quite good enough. They're amazing when you have Jaina in play, but when you don't it's often better just to go with the consistent and reliable mage cards. I mean, sometimes you won't even run Jaina at all, you run it if you're looking to go to the long game and grind your opponent out, you don't play it if your goal is to burn them. In a vacuum, Jaina is so powerful however control mage isn't that spectacular at the moment. You can rest assured if control mage rises to tier 1 in the coming expansions, Frost Lich Jaina will be at the heart of it, but not in burn variants.
having crafted her, I'd like to try and get some good use out of her - I'm intrigued by what you're saying about forgetting about the elemental side of her powers. I might try a new deck idea with that in mind.
It's a 9 mana 3/6 and you're wondering why it's not good ? Yeah, you get a lot of value off your hero powers but the Water Elemental summoning isn't even guaranteed. Your opponent won't let 1 hp minions live and sometimes you'll spend 3 turns not being able to summon one of them. The tempo loss is just way too high ! Ice Block is the only carrying of this card and whenever it's going to rotate out on April 2018, this card will be unplayable.
I think the main problem with Frost Lich Jaina is the current speed of the meta. Aggro lists are quite popular and if you don't have the necessary cards in hand, you'll die within the first few turns. That aside, I think the main reason that she isn't seen much is because she's a 'dead' turn 9 or perhaps rather a win-more card. Against alot of aggro decks, I've found that you have to get the board & then keep it (allow your opponents no minions so that Bonemare isn't a thing). In close games, or even games where you simply have the board, allowing your Tempo/Aggro opponent a '1 turn breather' can undo alot of your work and allow your opponent a comeback, even with the Lifesteal. So if I had to point out a criticism for her, her effect is a powerful passive but the game currently calls for immediate effects. That's why Priest, Warlock, Druid and Shaman run their DKs - they have immediate effects on board to gain/maintain tempo. If Frost Lich Jaina did more immediately, she might be more viable now. Otherwise she'll have to wait for a more viable Control Mage to truly shine as a powerhouse.
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I invested in Reno cause I heard you could get rich quick, now I'm broke.
She's actually really really good. It's basically instant win in fatigue. This is the perfect card control mage needed.
The meta just has to be in the right spot for control mage to shine. Jaina can carry that deck in the late game on her own.
It sounds like you don't really understand what her purpose is. She's not a late game finisher in some type of elemental deck, there just isn't much support for that game plan, but look up any control mage list and you will see her.
Think about what jaina does, and how it fits a controlling game plan, not a board heavy elemental package.
It's a 9 mana 3/6 and you're wondering why it's not good ?
I think you're missing the fact that all the elementals in your deck suddenly get Lifesteal. This is the biggest problem I've faced when playing against her - trying to get her health down while she's spamming out cards like Baron Geddon etc
It's a 9 mana 3/6 and you're wondering why it's not good ?
I think you're missing the fact that all the elementals in your deck suddenly get Lifesteal. This is the biggest problem I've faced when playing against her - trying to get her health down while she's spamming out cards like Baron Geddon etc
You're the first guy I've heard saying Lifesteal mechanic was too strong... If you can't beat Lifesteal, I wonder how was your hearthstone life with charge, pirates, jades, etc...
You want decks that beats Frost Lich Jaina ? Jade Druid, Midrange Hunter, Secret Mage, Handbuff Paladin, Murloc Paladin, Big Priest, Razakus Priest, Tempo Rogue, Token Shaman, Zoolock, Handlock & Pirate Warrior
It's a 9 mana 3/6 and you're wondering why it's not good ?
I think you're missing the fact that all the elementals in your deck suddenly get Lifesteal. This is the biggest problem I've faced when playing against her - trying to get her health down while she's spamming out cards like Baron Geddon etc
You're the first guy I've heard saying Lifesteal mechanic was too strong... If you can't beat Lifesteal, I wonder how was your hearthstone life with charge, pirates, jades, etc...
You want decks that beats Frost Lich Jaina ? Jade Druid, Midrange Hunter, Secret Mage, Handbuff Paladin, Murloc Paladin, Big Priest, Razakus Priest, Tempo Rogue, Token Shaman, Zoolock, Handlock & Pirate Warrior
You're welcome.
Disingenuousity aside, I look forward to seeing your stats of running these decks against Jaina and how you fared with each of them, since you must have some extensive data to be so sure that all of those consistently beat her. (Hint: they don't) As for underestimating the power of lifesteal, well... to each his own. Maybe try playing a late game tempo or control deck instead of face aggro all the time. (No insult intended - just that your comment implies that aggro is your go-to deck build, otherwise you would understand the power of late game lifesteal) And just to correct you there - I never once said that lifesteal was "too strong". That implies I think it needs changing. That's not the case. I said it was the biggest problem I've faced when playing her. Because when she gets rolling, it's hard to out-pace the lifestealing recharge value. You would know about this if you ever played a late game control deck against her, though.
It's a 9 mana 3/6 and you're wondering why it's not good ?
I think you're missing the fact that all the elementals in your deck suddenly get Lifesteal. This is the biggest problem I've faced when playing against her - trying to get her health down while she's spamming out cards like Baron Geddon etc
You're the first guy I've heard saying Lifesteal mechanic was too strong... If you can't beat Lifesteal, I wonder how was your hearthstone life with charge, pirates, jades, etc...
You want decks that beats Frost Lich Jaina ? Jade Druid, Midrange Hunter, Secret Mage, Handbuff Paladin, Murloc Paladin, Big Priest, Razakus Priest, Tempo Rogue, Token Shaman, Zoolock, Handlock & Pirate Warrior
You're welcome.
Disingenuousity aside, I look forward to seeing your stats of running these decks against Jaina and how you fared with each of them, since you must have some extensive data to be so sure that all of those consistently beat her. (Hint: they don't) As for underestimating the power of lifesteal, well... to each his own. Maybe try playing a late game tempo or control deck instead of face aggro all the time. (No insult intended - just that your comment implies that aggro is your go-to deck build, otherwise you would understand the power of late game lifesteal) And just to correct you there - I never once said that lifesteal was "too strong". That implies I think it needs changing. That's not the case. I said it was the biggest problem I've faced when playing her. Because when she gets rolling, it's hard to out-pace the lifestealing recharge value. You would know about this if you ever played a late game control deck against her, though.
Just some helpful tips. You're welcome.
I reached rank 2 of this season with Buff Paladin, Jade Druid & Handlock. No aggro. You can even check my collection, I don't own Patches the pirate. So, now that's settled.
I play Control Warlock, Control Mage and Control/ Mill warrior alot ànd I have to say Control mage feel the weakest. Even in a honest control matchup like vs Control Warlock, if the other guy save 2 twisting neithet and 1-2 enforcer at the end then nonway Jaina can win becasue Ửalock can just dont play anything and just kill you with hero pơwer. Vs mill warrior they just mill you to death ưhie gain zillion of armor. You have so few threat that you can do shit to him all the match.
Playing Jaina turn9 is very risky most of the tine. If the battlecry is also freeze all minions then it will be much better.
It's the best DK, hand's down if you look at it in a vacuum. The value is simply amazing. You can see this very easily in arena where it can win most games on its own.
But mage as a whole isn't in the best place in the ladder meta. It isn't really about the DK, it it isn't even that much about the value of mage cards (which is solid), it's more about the current decks that are the most competitive being somewhat oppressive to control mage builds.
So typically it'll be good to rank 8ish-7ish, before the meta becomes a chokepoint for it. Now that is my experience and my numbers, not something I've gotten off VS stats.
It's a 9 mana 3/6 and you're wondering why it's not good ?
I think you're missing the fact that all the elementals in your deck suddenly get Lifesteal. This is the biggest problem I've faced when playing against her - trying to get her health down while she's spamming out cards like Baron Geddon etc
You're the first guy I've heard saying Lifesteal mechanic was too strong... If you can't beat Lifesteal, I wonder how was your hearthstone life with charge, pirates, jades, etc...
You want decks that beats Frost Lich Jaina ? Jade Druid, Midrange Hunter, Secret Mage, Handbuff Paladin, Murloc Paladin, Big Priest, Razakus Priest, Tempo Rogue, Token Shaman, Zoolock, Handlock & Pirate Warrior
You're welcome.
Disingenuousity aside, I look forward to seeing your stats of running these decks against Jaina and how you fared with each of them, since you must have some extensive data to be so sure that all of those consistently beat her. (Hint: they don't) As for underestimating the power of lifesteal, well... to each his own. Maybe try playing a late game tempo or control deck instead of face aggro all the time. (No insult intended - just that your comment implies that aggro is your go-to deck build, otherwise you would understand the power of late game lifesteal) And just to correct you there - I never once said that lifesteal was "too strong". That implies I think it needs changing. That's not the case. I said it was the biggest problem I've faced when playing her. Because when she gets rolling, it's hard to out-pace the lifestealing recharge value. You would know about this if you ever played a late game control deck against her, though.
Just some helpful tips. You're welcome.
I reached rank 2 of this season with Buff Paladin, Jade Druid & Handlock. No aggro. You can even check my collection, I don't own Patches the pirate. So, now that's settled.
So typically it'll be good to rank 8ish-7ish, before the meta becomes a chokepoint for it. Now that is my experience and my numbers, not something I've gotten off VS stats.
Ahh - well I have been playing it at rank 3-4, recently, so maybe that's part of the problem. The meta is too strong for experimental decks at this stage. :-(
The lifesteal mechanic is strong against aggro and midrange, if you get to the lategame. Depending on the boardstate and on the removal of your opponent, it can also be decisive in a control matchup. Elemental mage with Frost lich Jaina is not a tier 1 or 2 deck, but obviously managable to be piloted to rank 5 (and maybe to legend).
Trump tries a f2p run in which he opened Jaina as his DK and no is playing elemental mage (more a midrange version than control). At rank 5 he got stuck and now it seems to go smoother with 2 Golakka crawlers.
Nah she is great as a standalone card.Also she shines in a control mediv mage deck without almost no other elemental.Pyros is garbage and i don't know why people even play that card.Too slow vs aggro and control decks have answers for days.Moreover contrary to what the people say here a well built control mage feasts on smorc prince decks.
So why isn't she popular?Easy.Any control mage deck is rekt by jade druid.As a control mage you have no way to deal with boards with big guys other than freezes+doomsayer combo which has no place in the deck.And if that wasn't enough malfurions dk makes him immune to the burn route control mages take with decks that outscale them.
Nah she is great as a standalone card.Also she shines in a control mediv mage deck without almost no other elemental.Pyros is garbage and i don't know why people even play that card.Too slow vs aggro and control decks have answers for days.Moreover contrary to what the people say here a well built control mage feasts on smorc prince decks.
So why isn't she popular?Easy.Any control mage deck is rekt by jade druid.As a control mage you have no way to deal with boards with big guys other than freezes+doomsayer combo which has no place in the deck.And if that wasn't enough malfurions dk makes him immune to the burn route control mages take with decks that outscale them.
Jade Druid... ruining the meta with Cancer Decks since 1892...
having crafted her, I'd like to try and get some good use out of her - I'm intrigued by what you're saying about forgetting about the elemental side of her powers. I might try a new deck idea with that in mind.
Frost Lich Jaina is a beast. A lot of people say spawning elementals isn't guaranteed, but in my experience it happens frequently, especially if you run 2x Polymorph which you really should be doing. Very rarely do I lose when I get to play her. Mage isn't in the best spot right now, but it's not because Jaina is bad, other decks just have a lot of things going for them and control isn't doing so well.
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Recently, during my ladder climb, I found that one of the only decks that seemed to cause me a fair amount of grief when trying to beat was Frost Lich Jaina and her army of lifestealing elemental goons.
It was incredibly hard at times to out-value her elementals with most decks I played.
So I thought about looking up the tier list to see how well she was faring as a deck generally.
And I am somewhat surprised to note that she doesn't even appear to feature on October's Metabomb tier deck list... like, at all!
http://www.metabomb.net/hearthstone/gameplay-guides/hearthstone-deck-tier-list-39
(Unless I am missing it somewhere on there perhaps)
So, I am left to wonder - did I fall a little too much for the hype surrounding her? Was crafting the frost queen a mistake maybe? I guess it doesn't hurt to have her available.
Or maybe my recent deck build is simply lacking and I need to rework it to make it stronger...?
With Frost Lich Jaina I find that she is best in a deck as a standalone instead of flooding the deck with elementals. The elemental package just simply isn't strong enough really and the more elementals you put in, the poorer the quality of your deck is getting. That's why cards like Sindragosa aren't quite good enough. They're amazing when you have Jaina in play, but when you don't it's often better just to go with the consistent and reliable mage cards. I mean, sometimes you won't even run Jaina at all, you run it if you're looking to go to the long game and grind your opponent out, you don't play it if your goal is to burn them. In a vacuum, Jaina is so powerful however control mage isn't that spectacular at the moment. You can rest assured if control mage rises to tier 1 in the coming expansions, Frost Lich Jaina will be at the heart of it, but not in burn variants.
Hmmm. Yeah, probably right.
having crafted her, I'd like to try and get some good use out of her - I'm intrigued by what you're saying about forgetting about the elemental side of her powers. I might try a new deck idea with that in mind.
It's a 9 mana 3/6 and you're wondering why it's not good ? Yeah, you get a lot of value off your hero powers but the Water Elemental summoning isn't even guaranteed. Your opponent won't let 1 hp minions live and sometimes you'll spend 3 turns not being able to summon one of them. The tempo loss is just way too high ! Ice Block is the only carrying of this card and whenever it's going to rotate out on April 2018, this card will be unplayable.
I think the main problem with Frost Lich Jaina is the current speed of the meta. Aggro lists are quite popular and if you don't have the necessary cards in hand, you'll die within the first few turns. That aside, I think the main reason that she isn't seen much is because she's a 'dead' turn 9 or perhaps rather a win-more card. Against alot of aggro decks, I've found that you have to get the board & then keep it (allow your opponents no minions so that Bonemare isn't a thing). In close games, or even games where you simply have the board, allowing your Tempo/Aggro opponent a '1 turn breather' can undo alot of your work and allow your opponent a comeback, even with the Lifesteal. So if I had to point out a criticism for her, her effect is a powerful passive but the game currently calls for immediate effects. That's why Priest, Warlock, Druid and Shaman run their DKs - they have immediate effects on board to gain/maintain tempo. If Frost Lich Jaina did more immediately, she might be more viable now. Otherwise she'll have to wait for a more viable Control Mage to truly shine as a powerhouse.
I invested in Reno cause I heard you could get rich quick, now I'm broke.
She's actually really really good. It's basically instant win in fatigue. This is the perfect card control mage needed.
The meta just has to be in the right spot for control mage to shine. Jaina can carry that deck in the late game on her own.
It sounds like you don't really understand what her purpose is. She's not a late game finisher in some type of elemental deck, there just isn't much support for that game plan, but look up any control mage list and you will see her.
Think about what jaina does, and how it fits a controlling game plan, not a board heavy elemental package.
I am using her in my tempo elemental mage as a Plan B. If the game went into a lategame, she's good at exhausting opponent's resources.
Gorge you hatred, embrace your rage.
As for underestimating the power of lifesteal, well... to each his own. Maybe try playing a late game tempo or control deck instead of face aggro all the time. (No insult intended - just that your comment implies that aggro is your go-to deck build, otherwise you would understand the power of late game lifesteal)
And just to correct you there - I never once said that lifesteal was "too strong". That implies I think it needs changing. That's not the case. I said it was the biggest problem I've faced when playing her. Because when she gets rolling, it's hard to out-pace the lifestealing recharge value. You would know about this if you ever played a late game control deck against her, though.
You're welcome.
I play Control Warlock, Control Mage and Control/ Mill warrior alot ànd I have to say Control mage feel the weakest. Even in a honest control matchup like vs Control Warlock, if the other guy save 2 twisting neithet and 1-2 enforcer at the end then nonway Jaina can win becasue Ửalock can just dont play anything and just kill you with hero pơwer. Vs mill warrior they just mill you to death ưhie gain zillion of armor. You have so few threat that you can do shit to him all the match.
Playing Jaina turn9 is very risky most of the tine. If the battlecry is also freeze all minions then it will be much better.
It's the best DK, hand's down if you look at it in a vacuum. The value is simply amazing. You can see this very easily in arena where it can win most games on its own.
But mage as a whole isn't in the best place in the ladder meta. It isn't really about the DK, it it isn't even that much about the value of mage cards (which is solid), it's more about the current decks that are the most competitive being somewhat oppressive to control mage builds.
So typically it'll be good to rank 8ish-7ish, before the meta becomes a chokepoint for it. Now that is my experience and my numbers, not something I've gotten off VS stats.
Never mind...
The lifesteal mechanic is strong against aggro and midrange, if you get to the lategame. Depending on the boardstate and on the removal of your opponent, it can also be decisive in a control matchup. Elemental mage with Frost lich Jaina is not a tier 1 or 2 deck, but obviously managable to be piloted to rank 5 (and maybe to legend).
Trump tries a f2p run in which he opened Jaina as his DK and no is playing elemental mage (more a midrange version than control). At rank 5 he got stuck and now it seems to go smoother with 2 Golakka crawlers.
Despair at rank 5
Changing to Golakka
Nah she is great as a standalone card.Also she shines in a control mediv mage deck without almost no other elemental.Pyros is garbage and i don't know why people even play that card.Too slow vs aggro and control decks have answers for days.Moreover contrary to what the people say here a well built control mage feasts on smorc prince decks.
So why isn't she popular?Easy.Any control mage deck is rekt by jade druid.As a control mage you have no way to deal with boards with big guys other than freezes+doomsayer combo which has no place in the deck.And if that wasn't enough malfurions dk makes him immune to the burn route control mages take with decks that outscale them.
Frost Lich Jaina is a beast. A lot of people say spawning elementals isn't guaranteed, but in my experience it happens frequently, especially if you run 2x Polymorph which you really should be doing. Very rarely do I lose when I get to play her. Mage isn't in the best spot right now, but it's not because Jaina is bad, other decks just have a lot of things going for them and control isn't doing so well.