I've been wondering about thoughts on Archmage Antonidas vs Medivh the guardian. I see the benefits of both in constructed but I"m having trouble deciding which is more relevant in the current meta. I would assume a lot comes down to what spells you are running considering their effects are greatly affected by such. The deck I'm running (http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/670581-tempo-aggro-mage-blend-work-in-progress) is at around 60-65% win rate while running Medivh, who has often won me the game paired with the likes of Firelands Portal, Cabalist Tome, and even the occasional Mirror Image. The extra 3 minions definitely help with tempo/ late game lethals (you gotta love when doom guard drops off a cabalists tome). No doubt the 7/7 is more helpful than A.A. with 5/7 but its more about effect than attack. My biggest downside of Medivh is that he has spent a lot of time sitting in my hand as I run through the majority of my spells weakening him just a tad. Theres also the chance of A.S.O. or Harrison dropping while Ateish is equipped. I definitely like the fact that unlike A.A. I don't need to pair Medivh the same turn with spell usage to maximize his effect and also that Mirror Entity, Shadow Word: Pain, Faceless Manipulator and even Sylvanas become less frightening since Medivh is battle cry rather than a passive effect. That being said, the explosive power of A.A. is incredible, especially paired with an arsenal of 1 cost spells. That late game burn is undoubtedly a major plus to A.A over Medivh. Then there is the mana cost to think about when 7 mana is staple for flame strike and now firelands portal where as 8 mana is basically open for mage aside from Rag. Im truly torn on which is better. My other thought is that i might drop the arcane golem i run for A.A. but then i lose my mana efficient high drop. I could also drop medivh's valet with A.A. since i was looking for a better swap any way but feel that running both A.A. and Medivh may be overkill on my mana curve as it pushes me to two 7, two 8, and one 12(give or take) mana. Any input, criticisms, suggestions or questions would be great.
Medivh is good in control mage because you can reliably reach your end goal of playing him and scoring major value points to overwhelm your opponent. The only downside of this is unless you are playing against another control deck, Medivh usually doesn't do much, by that point of the game you should already be winning by a landslide and shouldn't need that much more value.
Antonidas is better in a tempo mage because he allows you to exchange your early tempo cards, (arcane blast, arcane missiles) into serious burn or removal. By the time you are able to play Antonidas as a tempo mage you should be at a point where he puts your opponent on a 1 turn clock due to you having 13 damage available with your spells and hero power, even if they remove Antonidas.
You're so close to reno deck, personally id just do that then u can easily justify both
I run only one of most cards because with MSoG coming out soon I will be able to easily transition this deck into the new play style for mage and kabal. I also only run one arcane blast because it will become outdated very soon so I want to start fading it from my deck lists but as it stands it just has so much value that I can't really justify not running any. The duplicates i do run at the moment are just too good to pass on with the exception of mirror image but thats in response to the current meta. spirit claws, fiery war axe, etc.
My opinion - Antonidas is far superior because he is an instant threat. Medivh is a 7/7 on the board but your opponent can ignore him / block him with taunts / freeze him / etc. Antonidas cannot be ignored. Also Antonidas will always come paired with 1-2 fireballs (because you will almost always play him when you can play at least one spell) which mean additional immediate threats for your opponent.
Final considerations - Medivh is one mana more which is significant - in addition to being one turn later this means fewer cards to be paired with - or one spell instead of 2. And also Antonidas is in the base set which means he will never rotate out
If you're running Reno, Medivh works better in one of the 2-3 slots you have for late game "threats", since you'll probably be playing expensive spells and can generate value over several turns that way. A Tempo or burn Mage can play the full slate of cheap spells (Blast x2, Missiles x2, Mirror, vs. Reno usually plays one Blast and no Missiles/Mirror), and Antonidas combos with them better since you'll need to play 1-2 spells the same turn, versus generating 1 drops from Medivh and playing a longer game than the deck often wants.
Medivh is good in control mage because you can reliably reach your end goal of playing him and scoring major value points to overwhelm your opponent. The only downside of this is unless you are playing against another control deck, Medivh usually doesn't do much, by that point of the game you should already be winning by a landslide and shouldn't need that much more value.
Antonidas is better in a tempo mage because he allows you to exchange your early tempo cards, (arcane blast, arcane missiles) into serious burn or removal. By the time you are able to play Antonidas as a tempo mage you should be at a point where he puts your opponent on a 1 turn clock due to you having 13 damage available with your spells and hero power, even if they remove Antonidas.
What if I'm trying to blend both styles into a singular play style? Where I'm using Medivh as a target for my opponents to use hard removal on so i can follow up with A.A. and have him live with Ateish active. I would effectively flood the board with minions they have to remove or face lethal as well as a chain of fireballs coming from the hand. I know they biggest downside would be getting stuck with both in hand early game but with ice block, counter spell, average draw power and some early board presence i should be able to present a threat until late game when i drop one, two or all three. Also if my opponent uses hard removal on Medivh, Arcane Giant, or A.A. id have the others too add that threat back almost immediately at that point in game. The biggest concern i would think would come from fast paced early aggro or brawl because a 7/7, 8/8, and 5/7 would all require immediate counters.
Medivh is good in control mage because you can reliably reach your end goal of playing him and scoring major value points to overwhelm your opponent. The only downside of this is unless you are playing against another control deck, Medivh usually doesn't do much, by that point of the game you should already be winning by a landslide and shouldn't need that much more value.
Antonidas is better in a tempo mage because he allows you to exchange your early tempo cards, (arcane blast, arcane missiles) into serious burn or removal. By the time you are able to play Antonidas as a tempo mage you should be at a point where he puts your opponent on a 1 turn clock due to you having 13 damage available with your spells and hero power, even if they remove Antonidas.
What if I'm trying to blend both styles into a singular play style? Where I'm using Medivh as a target for my opponents to use hard removal on so i can follow up with A.A. and have him live with Ateish active. I would effectively flood the board with minions they have to remove or face lethal as well as a chain of fireballs coming from the hand. I know they biggest downside would be getting stuck with both in hand early game but with ice block, counter spell, average draw power and some early board presence i should be able to present a threat until late game when i drop one, two or all three. Also if my opponent uses hard removal on Medivh, Arcane Giant, or A.A. id have the others too add that threat back almost immediately at that point in game. The biggest concern i would think would come from fast paced early aggro or brawl because a 7/7, 8/8, and 5/7 would all require immediate counters.
Medivh seems to fit your deck fairly well, generating value off Cabalist's Tome and Firelands Portal mainly. Unless you are finding yourself in a position where you NEED to generate more burn to finish off your opponent, I would suggest looking into some other options other than Antonidas. Elise sounds like a very good option for what your deck seems to try and do. I would imagine you reach fatigue quite a lot vs control decks. Elise will fill the role of exchanging your unusable cards, except you will receive legendaries instead of fireballs. Elise is also much better versus agro than any other late game legendary, allowing you to drop a 4 mana 3/5 while still keeping 100% of the value you expect.
I've been wondering about thoughts on Archmage Antonidas vs Medivh the guardian. I see the benefits of both in constructed but I"m having trouble deciding which is more relevant in the current meta. I would assume a lot comes down to what spells you are running considering their effects are greatly affected by such. The deck I'm running (http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/670581-tempo-aggro-mage-blend-work-in-progress) is at around 60-65% win rate while running Medivh, who has often won me the game paired with the likes of Firelands Portal, Cabalist Tome, and even the occasional Mirror Image. The extra 3 minions definitely help with tempo/ late game lethals (you gotta love when doom guard drops off a cabalists tome). No doubt the 7/7 is more helpful than A.A. with 5/7 but its more about effect than attack. My biggest downside of Medivh is that he has spent a lot of time sitting in my hand as I run through the majority of my spells weakening him just a tad. Theres also the chance of A.S.O. or Harrison dropping while Ateish is equipped. I definitely like the fact that unlike A.A. I don't need to pair Medivh the same turn with spell usage to maximize his effect and also that Mirror Entity, Shadow Word: Pain, Faceless Manipulator and even Sylvanas become less frightening since Medivh is battle cry rather than a passive effect. That being said, the explosive power of A.A. is incredible, especially paired with an arsenal of 1 cost spells. That late game burn is undoubtedly a major plus to A.A over Medivh. Then there is the mana cost to think about when 7 mana is staple for flame strike and now firelands portal where as 8 mana is basically open for mage aside from Rag. Im truly torn on which is better. My other thought is that i might drop the arcane golem i run for A.A. but then i lose my mana efficient high drop. I could also drop medivh's valet with A.A. since i was looking for a better swap any way but feel that running both A.A. and Medivh may be overkill on my mana curve as it pushes me to two 7, two 8, and one 12(give or take) mana. Any input, criticisms, suggestions or questions would be great.
You're so close to reno deck, personally id just do that then u can easily justify both
Both should be used in different decks.
Medivh is good in control mage because you can reliably reach your end goal of playing him and scoring major value points to overwhelm your opponent. The only downside of this is unless you are playing against another control deck, Medivh usually doesn't do much, by that point of the game you should already be winning by a landslide and shouldn't need that much more value.
Antonidas is better in a tempo mage because he allows you to exchange your early tempo cards, (arcane blast, arcane missiles) into serious burn or removal. By the time you are able to play Antonidas as a tempo mage you should be at a point where he puts your opponent on a 1 turn clock due to you having 13 damage available with your spells and hero power, even if they remove Antonidas.
Wimmy wam wam wazzle!
My opinion - Antonidas is far superior because he is an instant threat. Medivh is a 7/7 on the board but your opponent can ignore him / block him with taunts / freeze him / etc. Antonidas cannot be ignored. Also Antonidas will always come paired with 1-2 fireballs (because you will almost always play him when you can play at least one spell) which mean additional immediate threats for your opponent.
Final considerations - Medivh is one mana more which is significant - in addition to being one turn later this means fewer cards to be paired with - or one spell instead of 2. And also Antonidas is in the base set which means he will never rotate out
Thanks,
D5
If you're running Reno, Medivh works better in one of the 2-3 slots you have for late game "threats", since you'll probably be playing expensive spells and can generate value over several turns that way. A Tempo or burn Mage can play the full slate of cheap spells (Blast x2, Missiles x2, Mirror, vs. Reno usually plays one Blast and no Missiles/Mirror), and Antonidas combos with them better since you'll need to play 1-2 spells the same turn, versus generating 1 drops from Medivh and playing a longer game than the deck often wants.
CCGing since '98.
Wimmy wam wam wazzle!
I like medihv for Reno deck over Antonidas. Antonidas too hard to get value from in many cases