If Hunter had Savage Roar, would it see play? Would it be auto include?
Would midrange hunter play it? What would it cut for it?
What do you think? I'm trying to think of ways to build a druid list without any ramp, and the closest similarity I can think of is midrange hunter, but these questions are driving me nuts.
Why mad reply? Why can't we just have an objective discussion. You can only play 30 cards, and midrange hunter is already so tight on cards it must play.
Savage Roar is without a doubt a really powerful spell, it's 2 mana cheaper bloodlust that gives your hero +2 attack as well. Midrange hunter minions stick more often than not. But at the same time, it needs to have the minions in the deck to begin with, so you are obviously not cutting shredders, highmanes, unleashes for it. Perhaps webspinner? Hunter's mark?
Im not saying it wouldnt be disgusting with unleash, savage roar, it definitely would, it would prompt immediate nerfs, but I'm saying, if it was a thing, what would be changed in current lists to fit it.
What would it be played instead of? Drawing savage roars means not drawing a minion. Kill command still hits through taunt, so does quickshot. You still need the staple 6 1 drops, and you still need huffer companion, scientist... :|
Savage roar is a horrible topdeck, and hunter is all about either curve, or topdeck high impact cards. Its worst topdecks are haunted creeper, mad scientist really... savage roar would add one more card to bad topdeck list.
Actually easy enough. If you have troubles with finding 2 slots for FACE damage in FACE hunter - I have a bad news for you.
As a face hunter, you need to have an almost certain chance to have a 1 drop on turn 1, as you hard mulligan for it. It's kinda obvious. 6 1 drops lets you have 1 - (1 - (24/30)(23/29)(22/28))(1 - (24/30)(23/29)(22/28)(21/27)), or 69% chance of getting a 1 drop if you hard mulligan going first. In the other 31% you can still recover, but it's a setback, since you have not took the chance to force opponent to coin an answer(if they don't, you push in a lot of damage with the 1 drop, or they waste a highly versatile 1 mana spell like arcane missiles which would have been used with flamewaker).
in midrange hunter, you don't need 1 drops really, but having one lets you contest repetitive damage from leper gnomes early on.
It might replace one Mad scientist and mby one Explosive or some combination of the two, since u want enemy to have as many minions out, u dont want to kill little ones with Explosive and its "just" 2 dmg face anyway. U might lose bow charges, but how often do u rly get them anyway ... sometimes u want to use Glaivzooka to buff your minion with +1 attack and your opponent doesnt trigger your Explosive and u sit on 3/1 eaglehorn or u have 2 other weapons in your hand and ur still waiting for the trap to proc to "not waste" your charge, but ur actually wasting your charges on weapons in your hand since ur not late game deck and need to finish the game as fast as possible etc.
It might replace one Mad scientist and mby one Explosive or some combination of the two, since u want enemy to have as many minions out, u dont want to kill little ones with Explosive and its "just" 2 dmg face anyway. U might lose bow charges, but how often do u rly get them anyway ... sometimes u want to use Glaivzooka to buff your minion with +1 attack and your opponent doesnt trigger your Explosive and u sit on 3/1 eaglehorn or u have 2 other weapons in your hand and ur still waiting for the trap to proc to "not waste" your charge, but ur actually wasting your charges on weapons in your hand since ur not late game deck and need to finish the game as fast as possible etc.
I've tried building hunter decks without mad scientist, and 1 scientist, and both explosives, and 1 explosive, and I've found that:
1. Explosive Trap is too core to the deck, it is one of the 4 cards that deny wannabe-face hunters, like face paladins, zoo locks, token druids from competing with you. It's so core that when they are about to have lethal, you can put it up, and they just lose. I've even had many cases when I was against a handlock who had lethal on board, I put him to 2 life and explosive, and they literally needed healbot to not lose. Explosive trap is one of the cards that allow face hunter to be competitive, as such, cutting it is unwise.
2. Mad Scientist is an interesting card. Many actually concede when it gets silenced, and I find this silly. The power of mad scientist is that he is, some what of a mini-sylvanas. As such, many people are automatically going to silence it. However, unlike sylvanas, it only costs 2 mana. This means that they spend a part of their turn, to do something instead of what they actually wanted to do(like not play an owl). It has an impact unlike knife juggler, when it dies, thinning your deck out of that 1 explosive means you have increased chance to draw a card you actually want, like a 1 drop if you are unlucky enough not to draw one on your first turn, or animal companion to challange that board on turn 3. Granted, he is not a gamewinning card, and often, you want to have explosive in your hand anyway because you expect him to be silenced: It's lose lose for them, they either lose their board, or you play explosive and they lose their board. The scientist increases your deck's ability to contest other aggro decks by basically acting like a conditionally-better consecration. As such, i've concluded that you want to cut juggler from your deck, before you have to cut scientist.
Due to this, I do not feel the cuts have merit, savage roar is on average less impactful than those 2 cards. Granted, Knife Juggler is a possible cut, since Unleash, Savage Roar is probably more relevant in most games than Juggler unleash. I've cut Juggler from my list a long time ago because there is no space for him, I've found leeroy and solidifying my 6 1 drops to be more important than having a juggler, especially since he loses you the game if they answer it(since he, unlike creeper and scientist does nothing when he dies).
It might replace one Mad scientist and mby one Explosive or some combination of the two, since u want enemy to have as many minions out, u dont want to kill little ones with Explosive and its "just" 2 dmg face anyway. U might lose bow charges, but how often do u rly get them anyway ... sometimes u want to use Glaivzooka to buff your minion with +1 attack and your opponent doesnt trigger your Explosive and u sit on 3/1 eaglehorn or u have 2 other weapons in your hand and ur still waiting for the trap to proc to "not waste" your charge, but ur actually wasting your charges on weapons in your hand since ur not late game deck and need to finish the game as fast as possible etc.
I've tried building hunter decks without mad scientist, and 1 scientist, and both explosives, and 1 explosive, and I've found that:
1. Explosive Trap is too core to the deck, it is one of the 4 cards that deny wannabe-face hunters, like face paladins, zoo locks, token druids from competing with you. It's so core that when they are about to have lethal, you can put it up, and they just lose. I've even had many cases when I was against a handlock who had lethal on board, I put him to 2 life and explosive, and they literally needed healbot to not lose. Explosive trap is one of the cards that allow face hunter to be competitive, as such, cutting it is unwise.
2. Mad Scientist is an interesting card. Many actually concede when it gets silenced, and I find this silly. The power of mad scientist is that he is, some what of a mini-sylvanas. As such, many people are automatically going to silence it. However, unlike sylvanas, it only costs 2 mana. This means that they spend a part of their turn, to do something instead of what they actually wanted to do(like not play an owl). It has an impact unlike knife juggler, when it dies, thinning your deck out of that 1 explosive means you have increased chance to draw a card you actually want, like a 1 drop if you are unlucky enough not to draw one on your first turn, or animal companion to challange that board on turn 3. Granted, he is not a gamewinning card, and often, you want to have explosive in your hand anyway because you expect him to be silenced: It's lose lose for them, they either lose their board, or you play explosive and they lose their board. The scientist increases your deck's ability to contest other aggro decks by basically acting like a conditionally-better consecration. As such, i've concluded that you want to cut juggler from your deck, before you have to cut scientist.
Due to this, I do not feel the cuts have merit, savage roar is on average less impactful than those 2 cards. Granted, Knife Juggler is a possible cut, since Unleash, Savage Roar is probably more relevant in most games than Juggler unleash. I've cut Juggler from my list a long time ago because there is no space for him, I've found leeroy and solidifying my 6 1 drops to be more important than having a juggler, especially since he loses you the game if they answer it(since he, unlike creeper and scientist does nothing when he dies).
But when u would have SR, u would play Face hunter a bit differently then when u dont ... thats why i think u could replace Explosives/scientists (cause u would have like 0-1 traps, so u dont need 2 scientists).
It might replace one Mad scientist and mby one Explosive or some combination of the two, since u want enemy to have as many minions out, u dont want to kill little ones with Explosive and its "just" 2 dmg face anyway. U might lose bow charges, but how often do u rly get them anyway ... sometimes u want to use Glaivzooka to buff your minion with +1 attack and your opponent doesnt trigger your Explosive and u sit on 3/1 eaglehorn or u have 2 other weapons in your hand and ur still waiting for the trap to proc to "not waste" your charge, but ur actually wasting your charges on weapons in your hand since ur not late game deck and need to finish the game as fast as possible etc.
I've tried building hunter decks without mad scientist, and 1 scientist, and both explosives, and 1 explosive, and I've found that:
1. Explosive Trap is too core to the deck, it is one of the 4 cards that deny wannabe-face hunters, like face paladins, zoo locks, token druids from competing with you. It's so core that when they are about to have lethal, you can put it up, and they just lose. I've even had many cases when I was against a handlock who had lethal on board, I put him to 2 life and explosive, and they literally needed healbot to not lose. Explosive trap is one of the cards that allow face hunter to be competitive, as such, cutting it is unwise.
2. Mad Scientist is an interesting card. Many actually concede when it gets silenced, and I find this silly. The power of mad scientist is that he is, some what of a mini-sylvanas. As such, many people are automatically going to silence it. However, unlike sylvanas, it only costs 2 mana. This means that they spend a part of their turn, to do something instead of what they actually wanted to do(like not play an owl). It has an impact unlike knife juggler, when it dies, thinning your deck out of that 1 explosive means you have increased chance to draw a card you actually want, like a 1 drop if you are unlucky enough not to draw one on your first turn, or animal companion to challange that board on turn 3. Granted, he is not a gamewinning card, and often, you want to have explosive in your hand anyway because you expect him to be silenced: It's lose lose for them, they either lose their board, or you play explosive and they lose their board. The scientist increases your deck's ability to contest other aggro decks by basically acting like a conditionally-better consecration. As such, i've concluded that you want to cut juggler from your deck, before you have to cut scientist.
Due to this, I do not feel the cuts have merit, savage roar is on average less impactful than those 2 cards. Granted, Knife Juggler is a possible cut, since Unleash, Savage Roar is probably more relevant in most games than Juggler unleash. I've cut Juggler from my list a long time ago because there is no space for him, I've found leeroy and solidifying my 6 1 drops to be more important than having a juggler, especially since he loses you the game if they answer it(since he, unlike creeper and scientist does nothing when he dies).
But when u would have SR, u would play Face hunter a bit differently then when u dont ... thats why i think u could replace Explosives/scientists (cause u would have like 0-1 traps, so u dont need 2 scientists).
You are probably right about that. Cards as powerful as savage roar force decks to be built differently to fit them. Maybe token hunter would be a thing.
If Hunter had Savage Roar, would it see play? Would it be auto include?
Would midrange hunter play it? What would it cut for it?
What do you think? I'm trying to think of ways to build a druid list without any ramp, and the closest similarity I can think of is midrange hunter, but these questions are driving me nuts.
Why mad reply? Why can't we just have an objective discussion. You can only play 30 cards, and midrange hunter is already so tight on cards it must play.
Savage Roar is without a doubt a really powerful spell, it's 2 mana cheaper bloodlust that gives your hero +2 attack as well. Midrange hunter minions stick more often than not. But at the same time, it needs to have the minions in the deck to begin with, so you are obviously not cutting shredders, highmanes, unleashes for it. Perhaps webspinner? Hunter's mark?
Im not saying it wouldnt be disgusting with unleash, savage roar, it definitely would, it would prompt immediate nerfs, but I'm saying, if it was a thing, what would be changed in current lists to fit it.
Would be a staple in facehunter. 8 damage (3 creatures) in early game, easy win.
What would it be played instead of? Drawing savage roars means not drawing a minion. Kill command still hits through taunt, so does quickshot. You still need the staple 6 1 drops, and you still need huffer companion, scientist... :|
Savage roar is a horrible topdeck, and hunter is all about either curve, or topdeck high impact cards. Its worst topdecks are haunted creeper, mad scientist really... savage roar would add one more card to bad topdeck list.
Why do you ever need 3 1-drops?
Actually easy enough. If you have troubles with finding 2 slots for FACE damage in FACE hunter - I have a bad news for you.
As a face hunter, you need to have an almost certain chance to have a 1 drop on turn 1, as you hard mulligan for it. It's kinda obvious. 6 1 drops lets you have 1 - (1 - (24/30)(23/29)(22/28))(1 - (24/30)(23/29)(22/28)(21/27)), or 69% chance of getting a 1 drop if you hard mulligan going first. In the other 31% you can still recover, but it's a setback, since you have not took the chance to force opponent to coin an answer(if they don't, you push in a lot of damage with the 1 drop, or they waste a highly versatile 1 mana spell like arcane missiles which would have been used with flamewaker).
in midrange hunter, you don't need 1 drops really, but having one lets you contest repetitive damage from leper gnomes early on.
It might replace one Mad scientist and mby one Explosive or some combination of the two, since u want enemy to have as many minions out, u dont want to kill little ones with Explosive and its "just" 2 dmg face anyway. U might lose bow charges, but how often do u rly get them anyway ... sometimes u want to use Glaivzooka to buff your minion with +1 attack and your opponent doesnt trigger your Explosive and u sit on 3/1 eaglehorn or u have 2 other weapons in your hand and ur still waiting for the trap to proc to "not waste" your charge, but ur actually wasting your charges on weapons in your hand since ur not late game deck and need to finish the game as fast as possible etc.
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I've tried building hunter decks without mad scientist, and 1 scientist, and both explosives, and 1 explosive, and I've found that:
1. Explosive Trap is too core to the deck, it is one of the 4 cards that deny wannabe-face hunters, like face paladins, zoo locks, token druids from competing with you. It's so core that when they are about to have lethal, you can put it up, and they just lose. I've even had many cases when I was against a handlock who had lethal on board, I put him to 2 life and explosive, and they literally needed healbot to not lose. Explosive trap is one of the cards that allow face hunter to be competitive, as such, cutting it is unwise.
2. Mad Scientist is an interesting card. Many actually concede when it gets silenced, and I find this silly. The power of mad scientist is that he is, some what of a mini-sylvanas. As such, many people are automatically going to silence it. However, unlike sylvanas, it only costs 2 mana. This means that they spend a part of their turn, to do something instead of what they actually wanted to do(like not play an owl). It has an impact unlike knife juggler, when it dies, thinning your deck out of that 1 explosive means you have increased chance to draw a card you actually want, like a 1 drop if you are unlucky enough not to draw one on your first turn, or animal companion to challange that board on turn 3. Granted, he is not a gamewinning card, and often, you want to have explosive in your hand anyway because you expect him to be silenced: It's lose lose for them, they either lose their board, or you play explosive and they lose their board. The scientist increases your deck's ability to contest other aggro decks by basically acting like a conditionally-better consecration. As such, i've concluded that you want to cut juggler from your deck, before you have to cut scientist.
Due to this, I do not feel the cuts have merit, savage roar is on average less impactful than those 2 cards. Granted, Knife Juggler is a possible cut, since Unleash, Savage Roar is probably more relevant in most games than Juggler unleash. I've cut Juggler from my list a long time ago because there is no space for him, I've found leeroy and solidifying my 6 1 drops to be more important than having a juggler, especially since he loses you the game if they answer it(since he, unlike creeper and scientist does nothing when he dies).
But when u would have SR, u would play Face hunter a bit differently then when u dont ... thats why i think u could replace Explosives/scientists (cause u would have like 0-1 traps, so u dont need 2 scientists).
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You are probably right about that. Cards as powerful as savage roar force decks to be built differently to fit them. Maybe token hunter would be a thing.
Easy staple because of Unleash the Hounds.
One day Blizzard will release a Tavern Brawl where you can use cards from 2 classes.
Then we will see the Hunter/Druid hybrids and be able to judge them properly.