Is non-facehunters now only reliant on their DK for value and Rhok'delar(for spell hunter) Instead of actually drawing their own deck?I mean other classes seem to have more consistent card draws.
It’s a turn 1 play for non-aggro hunter, that helps you ensure you get a card you need given what’s in your hand and across the table from you. With a 2-cost hero power it’s a reasonable mid-game play too.
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Shudderwock means driving a clown car in circles around your opponent while he swings his sword at you. Half the time he chops you and your car to pieces. The other half you park on his legs and 40 clowns come out one by one, trampling him to death.
It’s a turn 1 play for non-aggro hunter, that helps you ensure you get a card you need given what’s in your hand and across the table from you. With a 2-cost hero power it’s a reasonable mid-game play too.
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Shudderwock means driving a clown car in circles around your opponent while he swings his sword at you. Half the time he chops you and your car to pieces. The other half you park on his legs and 40 clowns come out one by one, trampling him to death.
I often find myself relying on the DK with Hunter because there aren't great draw options. Tracking is essential - gets to your DK sooner and/or clears out the less useful cards during the mid/late game.
Hunter's lack of draw is the reason it's not dominating the meta. Consistent, reliable draw for the most face-centric class in the game is a super bad idea. Imagine face hunter with hands consistently between 5-7 cards, always drawing or holding answers in every matchup. That's a world in which the only thing that beats face hunter is a mirror in which you draw better. That sucks.
Hunter is about managing resources and finding your lines where other classes have more margin for error.
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Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
Hunter's lack of draw is the reason it's not dominating the meta. Consistent, reliable draw for the most face-centric class in the game is a super bad idea. Imagine face hunter with hands consistently between 5-7 cards, always drawing or holding answers in every matchup. That's a world in which the only thing that beats face hunter is a mirror in which you draw better. That sucks.
Hunter is about managing resources and finding your lines where other classes have more margin for error.
Well right now Recruit Hunter is really pulling ahead in power and most lists don't run any card draw unless you count Stitched Tracker. Hunter has had some powerful cards and archetypes for sometime now but I think warlock and paladin kept them since they were better at what they did then what hunter could bring to the table. At least I think that is a bigger reason than hunter just not having draw.
I'd really rather hunter not have extra draw options considering how aggressive decks can dominate the meta especially if they constantly refuel!
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If you play even or odd hunter, you don't need as much draw since you wont be playing on curve most of the time and that means you probably wont play more than a card each turn.
With my hunter deck, I often only hero power in the early turns, even if I've got my secrets in hand and could play them associated to it. You don't have to take actions or play a card each turn, which means you'll need less card draw, and this is something I've had an hard time learning trough the years, but the even / odd mechanics have proved it right.
Of course, if the game lasts for too long Deathstalker Rexxar will generate a lot of value if you give him enough turns (and if you have a bit of luck).
What's more, in more "classical" Hunter decks (no Baku or Genn), Stitched Tracker and Tracking are cards allowing you to choose what you want to draw, which means you'll need less "classical" draw mechanics since you'll get rid of their randomness (if that makes sense to you).
Long gone are the days of Buzzard+uth and im glad for it. Lack of card draw in hunter is kinda its class identity over the past few years and i think it is a good decision. It allows them to create some crazy cards or push out archetype like Spell Hunter without it being completely broken.
Long gone are the days of Buzzard+uth and im glad for it. Lack of card draw in hunter is kinda its class identity over the past few years and i think it is a good decision. It allows them to create some crazy cards or push out archetype like Spell Hunter without it being completely broken.
Except is not actually a class identity since Buzzard is still supposed to be card draw the only problem is that it just sucks after the nerf so Hunter had shitty card draws.
Every class has a card draw in the Expert Set in some form but not all are good enough to be run (see Buzzard).
The other reliable card draw Hunters had was Flare when it was 1 mana (kinda like Priest Shield which was ok),i don't think Flare now deserves to still be 2 Mana (pretty much will just get Countered by Counterspell nowadays).
To sum up:
Priest has good card draw in Expert set (Shield + cleric)
Druid has good enough card draw in Expert set (Nourish)
Hunter has some terrible card draw (2 mana Flare and a 5 mana Buzzard) in Expert set
Paladin has insane card draw in Expert set (Divine Favor + Lay on Hands for control)
Mage has good card draw in Expert(Arcane Intellect)
Shaman has good with potential to insane card draw (Mana Tide) and Far Sight
Warlock already has card draw from HP
Warrior has a good card draw (Battle Rage + Shield Block) with potential to be insane(Battle Rage) Commanding Shout is situational.
Rogue theoretically can have a good card draw (Prep+Sprint) but Auctioneer will always be their card draw most of the time.
So lack of card draw is not actually a class identity is just bad design if 1 class cannot have decent enough card draw.
The hunter class is designed for tempo. Their hero power goes face. Hunter's class cards are designed to create tempo, not value. People trying to play a value game with hunter are cutting against the grain.
The hunter class is designed for tempo. Their hero power goes face. Hunter's class cards are designed to create tempo, not value. People trying to play a value game with hunter are cutting against the grain.
Maybe that was the case at start but since many expansions Hunter was also pushed to be Control (DK Rexxar).
Tempo is just an archetype,HP going face is also a forced Aggro archetype but HP does not say anything the cards are the ones that have something to say in the end.
In any case card draw is important in any archetype (even tempo) and Hunter's card draw cards were both nerfed (Buzzard+Flare) and i know Hunter has pseudo-card draw in the form of adding random Beasts into the hand but is not actually a legit card draw.
Not saying Hunter did not get good tempo cards but as i said card draw is like Azure Drake good in every deck,i would still love to see a good card draw in Hunter and a good AoE board clear (3 damage+) i mean i know Dragon Hunter will probably never get a Duskbreaker effect (which btw wrecks most Tempo decks cause it is OP) but well i hope for something.
Class Identity in my book is more about the Theme of a Hero : Hunter class identity is Beast synergy,Mage spells,Priest resurrect,Warlock self-damage for power,Paladin power in numbers,Druid is mostly about treants and buffing many minions at once,Warrior well is about AoE cleaves/whirlwinds with Armor and Weapons,Rogue about strong combo cards and Shaman with Totems/Evolve
It's really just lazy design on blizzards part. Everyone automatically thinks face hunter and is immediately against it. It would not be hard to create a card goes against aggro and helps out in the much later turns. You just need to increase the cost and give it some kind of reduction that benefit heavy mid range or control styles.
An off the top of my head example would be - 6 mana - draw 2 cards - Reduce this spells cost by 1 for every card you played that costs 5 or greater". There's a card that aggro would never put in its deck and only decks that are hard casting explosive shot/highmanes or larger get a benefit from.
Either that or make the card draw apply an attack debuff to your creatures for a single turn, then you have to figure out the optimal time to play it if you want to keep any form of pressure. They already have that coded for curse of weakness
Hunter doesn't have as bad of a draw as you think. As for Flare, I don't think CS should pop it OR it should pop CS and destroy any other secrets.
I've played a lot of Hunter as it is one of my favorite classes. What Hunter lacks in card draw, it makes up for with secret synergy (eagle bow/spellstones) as well as beast synergy.
I don't know if you noticed but no other hero power does 2 face dmg. None. Mage can ping whatever they want, and Warlock does 2 dmg to his own face.
Now, as for card draw...what exactly do you need to draw that is so important? Tracking allows you to choose what you want, and Stitched Tracker allows you to choose a beast from your deck.
Since Alleycat rotated, I replaced it with 2 jeweled macaws.
Every once in a blue moon, I am able to utilize a beast from another class. For example, Mages familiar that summons a minion for every spell I cast. Or the cat that gives me spell damage.
Jeweled Macaw into Blink Fox into a card from your opponents class.
Best case scenario (card draw wise) you get a 3/3 minion that grants you another card for 4 mana (I think Blink Fox is 3 mana? But I'm not sure)
Animal Companion is a spell that summons a beast for you. And none of the animal companions are THAT bad. In the right situation, they can be downright deadly. Leokk into UtH while the opponent has 4 minions on board? Throw in a scavenging hyena...these plays don't happen all the time and they are not meant to happen all the time.
If Hunter could pick and choose from their deck, then it would be incredibly oppressive. Part of the fun of playing Hunter is thinking on your feet and going with the flow.
Most people see Hunter and think, "SMORC, go face, duh dee duh." Yes, you have to play on curve. Yes, you have to establish board presence. Hunter is good at those. But its drawback is lack of card draw.
The opposite is true for Priest, BUT, Priest needs time to set up; what good is PW:Shield, DS, IF, and CoC if you have no minions? So, they need card draw. They also have their own version of Tracking, which is Shadow Visions that gave it some consistency.
Hunters consistency is its ability to utilize the tools they are given.
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Good Luck & Happy Gaming
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Is non-facehunters now only reliant on their DK for value and Rhok'delar(for spell hunter) Instead of actually drawing their own deck?I mean other classes seem to have more consistent card draws.
hunter has tracking
Yes but it only cycles itself
if that god damn hunters could draw with their own class cards they would dominate the meta harder than ever. So what's your point again?
It’s a turn 1 play for non-aggro hunter, that helps you ensure you get a card you need given what’s in your hand and across the table from you. With a 2-cost hero power it’s a reasonable mid-game play too.
Shudderwock means driving a clown car in circles around your opponent while he swings his sword at you. Half the time he chops you and your car to pieces. The other half you park on his legs and 40 clowns come out one by one, trampling him to death.
Whizbang Strategy Reference -- update complete for Rastakhan's Rumble!
It’s a turn 1 play for non-aggro hunter, that helps you ensure you get a card you need given what’s in your hand and across the table from you. With a 2-cost hero power it’s a reasonable mid-game play too.
Shudderwock means driving a clown car in circles around your opponent while he swings his sword at you. Half the time he chops you and your car to pieces. The other half you park on his legs and 40 clowns come out one by one, trampling him to death.
Whizbang Strategy Reference -- update complete for Rastakhan's Rumble!
I often find myself relying on the DK with Hunter because there aren't great draw options. Tracking is essential - gets to your DK sooner and/or clears out the less useful cards during the mid/late game.
Hunter's lack of draw is the reason it's not dominating the meta. Consistent, reliable draw for the most face-centric class in the game is a super bad idea. Imagine face hunter with hands consistently between 5-7 cards, always drawing or holding answers in every matchup. That's a world in which the only thing that beats face hunter is a mirror in which you draw better. That sucks.
Hunter is about managing resources and finding your lines where other classes have more margin for error.
Rage quitting: the best way to ensure your opponent knows they beat a giant baby.
Well right now Recruit Hunter is really pulling ahead in power and most lists don't run any card draw unless you count Stitched Tracker. Hunter has had some powerful cards and archetypes for sometime now but I think warlock and paladin kept them since they were better at what they did then what hunter could bring to the table. At least I think that is a bigger reason than hunter just not having draw.
I'd really rather hunter not have extra draw options considering how aggressive decks can dominate the meta especially if they constantly refuel!
If you play even or odd hunter, you don't need as much draw since you wont be playing on curve most of the time and that means you probably wont play more than a card each turn.
With my hunter deck, I often only hero power in the early turns, even if I've got my secrets in hand and could play them associated to it.
You don't have to take actions or play a card each turn, which means you'll need less card draw, and this is something I've had an hard time learning trough the years, but the even / odd mechanics have proved it right.
Of course, if the game lasts for too long Deathstalker Rexxar will generate a lot of value if you give him enough turns (and if you have a bit of luck).
What's more, in more "classical" Hunter decks (no Baku or Genn), Stitched Tracker and Tracking are cards allowing you to choose what you want to draw, which means you'll need less "classical" draw mechanics since you'll get rid of their randomness (if that makes sense to you).
Why is this a topic now that hunter is the most viable it has been in a very long time?
Long gone are the days of Buzzard+uth and im glad for it. Lack of card draw in hunter is kinda its class identity over the past few years and i think it is a good decision. It allows them to create some crazy cards or push out archetype like Spell Hunter without it being completely broken.
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Bring back buzzard/UTH....wait no, don't do that, that is a horrible diea.
Hunter don't need draw when the recruit version automatically has what it needs on curve anyway :)
Except is not actually a class identity since Buzzard is still supposed to be card draw the only problem is that it just sucks after the nerf so Hunter had shitty card draws.
Every class has a card draw in the Expert Set in some form but not all are good enough to be run (see Buzzard).
The other reliable card draw Hunters had was Flare when it was 1 mana (kinda like Priest Shield which was ok),i don't think Flare now deserves to still be 2 Mana (pretty much will just get Countered by Counterspell nowadays).
To sum up:
Priest has good card draw in Expert set (Shield + cleric)
Druid has good enough card draw in Expert set (Nourish)
Hunter has some terrible card draw (2 mana Flare and a 5 mana Buzzard) in Expert set
Paladin has insane card draw in Expert set (Divine Favor + Lay on Hands for control)
Mage has good card draw in Expert(Arcane Intellect)
Shaman has good with potential to insane card draw (Mana Tide) and Far Sight
Warlock already has card draw from HP
Warrior has a good card draw (Battle Rage + Shield Block) with potential to be insane(Battle Rage) Commanding Shout is situational.
Rogue theoretically can have a good card draw (Prep+Sprint) but Auctioneer will always be their card draw most of the time.
So lack of card draw is not actually a class identity is just bad design if 1 class cannot have decent enough card draw.
The hunter class is designed for tempo. Their hero power goes face. Hunter's class cards are designed to create tempo, not value. People trying to play a value game with hunter are cutting against the grain.
Maybe that was the case at start but since many expansions Hunter was also pushed to be Control (DK Rexxar).
Tempo is just an archetype,HP going face is also a forced Aggro archetype but HP does not say anything the cards are the ones that have something to say in the end.
In any case card draw is important in any archetype (even tempo) and Hunter's card draw cards were both nerfed (Buzzard+Flare) and i know Hunter has pseudo-card draw in the form of adding random Beasts into the hand but is not actually a legit card draw.
Not saying Hunter did not get good tempo cards but as i said card draw is like Azure Drake good in every deck,i would still love to see a good card draw in Hunter and a good AoE board clear (3 damage+) i mean i know Dragon Hunter will probably never get a Duskbreaker effect (which btw wrecks most Tempo decks cause it is OP) but well i hope for something.
Class Identity in my book is more about the Theme of a Hero : Hunter class identity is Beast synergy,Mage spells,Priest resurrect,Warlock self-damage for power,Paladin power in numbers,Druid is mostly about treants and buffing many minions at once,Warrior well is about AoE cleaves/whirlwinds with Armor and Weapons,Rogue about strong combo cards and Shaman with Totems/Evolve
It's really just lazy design on blizzards part. Everyone automatically thinks face hunter and is immediately against it. It would not be hard to create a card goes against aggro and helps out in the much later turns. You just need to increase the cost and give it some kind of reduction that benefit heavy mid range or control styles.
An off the top of my head example would be - 6 mana - draw 2 cards - Reduce this spells cost by 1 for every card you played that costs 5 or greater". There's a card that aggro would never put in its deck and only decks that are hard casting explosive shot/highmanes or larger get a benefit from.
Either that or make the card draw apply an attack debuff to your creatures for a single turn, then you have to figure out the optimal time to play it if you want to keep any form of pressure. They already have that coded for curse of weakness
Hunter doesn't have as bad of a draw as you think. As for Flare, I don't think CS should pop it OR it should pop CS and destroy any other secrets.
I've played a lot of Hunter as it is one of my favorite classes. What Hunter lacks in card draw, it makes up for with secret synergy (eagle bow/spellstones) as well as beast synergy.
I don't know if you noticed but no other hero power does 2 face dmg. None. Mage can ping whatever they want, and Warlock does 2 dmg to his own face.
Now, as for card draw...what exactly do you need to draw that is so important? Tracking allows you to choose what you want, and Stitched Tracker allows you to choose a beast from your deck.
Since Alleycat rotated, I replaced it with 2 jeweled macaws.
Every once in a blue moon, I am able to utilize a beast from another class. For example, Mages familiar that summons a minion for every spell I cast. Or the cat that gives me spell damage.
Jeweled Macaw into Blink Fox into a card from your opponents class.
Best case scenario (card draw wise) you get a 3/3 minion that grants you another card for 4 mana (I think Blink Fox is 3 mana? But I'm not sure)
Animal Companion is a spell that summons a beast for you. And none of the animal companions are THAT bad. In the right situation, they can be downright deadly. Leokk into UtH while the opponent has 4 minions on board? Throw in a scavenging hyena...these plays don't happen all the time and they are not meant to happen all the time.
If Hunter could pick and choose from their deck, then it would be incredibly oppressive. Part of the fun of playing Hunter is thinking on your feet and going with the flow.
Most people see Hunter and think, "SMORC, go face, duh dee duh." Yes, you have to play on curve. Yes, you have to establish board presence. Hunter is good at those. But its drawback is lack of card draw.
The opposite is true for Priest, BUT, Priest needs time to set up; what good is PW:Shield, DS, IF, and CoC if you have no minions? So, they need card draw. They also have their own version of Tracking, which is Shadow Visions that gave it some consistency.
Hunters consistency is its ability to utilize the tools they are given.
Good Luck & Happy Gaming