How? by giving a useless card for an improbable Control Hunter, WHILE stealing room for a cheap weapon (even a 1-mana vanilla 1/3 Walking Stick weapon or whatever) that would have allowed Hunter to at least try Pirate in Standard.
How? by giving a useless card for an improbable Control Hunter, WHILE stealing room for a cheap weapon (even a 1-mana vanilla 1/3 Walking Stick weapon or whatever) that would have allowed Hunter to at least try Pirate in Standard.
Geez. Every fricking class shouldn't be playing pirates. It makes sense in warrior and rogue. No where else.
Hunter died because everything else got stronger while he stayed the same. Call of the Wild nerfs didn't help either. If he grimey goons mechanic worked out, they would be in better spots. Hell, if it wasn't for pirates, you wouldn't even see warrior on the ladder anymore. That is how bad the grimey goon mechanics are. Turns out playing a bunch of slow cards to buff giant cards that are easily removed was a bad idea.
Heck, you can't even run strong anti aggro spells or doomsayers because then you dilute your deck and waste your buffs. They really should have let you choose the cards to buff, and not revealed the buffed cards in your hand to your opponent.
I like the buff idea in Goons even if Jade is a lot stronger. Paladin got the best buff cards, Hunter got the worst, they are spread out and very hard to synergize. Like "buff all your deathrattle cards in your hand". Ok, I have one. I have never been a Hunter fan with all their aggro shit but both Warrior and Hunter need better buff cards. I think the two "buff all minions" cards should be Goon card for all Goon classes.
At least in Wild Hunter is still viable, so I can finish my 500 rank wins with the class. Also its viability in Wild shows how a single cheap Weapon allows Hunter to implement Patches, making a completely viable deck against Shamans, Reno decks, Miracle Rogue.
I hope Hunter will receive some good cards next expansion, although I think I will reach Golden Hunter in Wild even under these circumstances.
I think the problem right now is that Hunter's core strength, historically, has been the ability to put out pressure in the early game to transition into closing late game damage. With the quality of early game options at a historic high on average (between pirates and the board control options available to Reno lists, as well as dragon Priest), Hunter can't do what it needs to do to win, which is get ahead on the board with sticky minions. Since the class is fairly linear, the removal of its support structure for its win condition basically consigns it to the dumpster, at least for now. Hunter either needs more diverse tools, which Blizzard has made a few unstable moves towards, or more support for its earlygame options to keep up with the quality available to most other classes. The same is true for Paladins really, though their needs for diversity or a stronger toolkit and earlygame are somewhat different, of course.
It's not surprising that the class tanked with the release of MSG. The Hunter hero power is essentially useless against the exact meta we're in: other hyper aggro decks that go faster than you (Pirate) and Reno decks which have a card which entirely negates all the hero powers you've used up to that point.
Hunter is not a late game class; at best it can do mid-range and unfortunately mid-range is not good in the meta (sorry Goons). There isn't anything inherently wrong with this. Someone has to be at the bottom and it just happens to be Hunter this time. Hunter has been at or near top tier for a long stretch now, so it's fair that it has taken a backseat while other classes get to shine.
I think the cards Hunter got in MSG are very good in a vacuum and there is a good chance they will be quite viable in the future. Rat Pack, Alleycat, and Dispatch Kodo are amazingly efficient based solely on stats/effect to cost. I think once the first expansion of 2017 hits and all the Reno decks go bye-bye that Hunter will make a resurgence. I'm not sure it will be a Goons based deck, but I suppose it depends on what themes the next expansion brings.
Speaking in regards to the Grimy Goons theme, I feel the idea was interesting, but the execution of it was not done in a consistent enough way. Generally speaking the best decks are the ones where you can ensure the desired outcome the most times. The most consistent hand buff effects were given to Paladin (ie the effect buffs all minions in your hand), which coincidentally is the best version of the Goons strategy players have found (although still not really anything but Tier 3 at best currently). The Warrior and Hunter buff effects are bigger but are more random, which means you can't always count on the desired outcome. It also punishes you more when you essentially played two cards (the buff and the minion), but your opponent answers it with one spell.
hunter doesn't have an early game anymore. what can you play that doesn't get countered easily? lol alleycat....loses automatically against priest and rogue. two 1/1s? ha pirate decks bring a 1/2 and a 1/1 with charge....that can become a 3/2.
play a 3/2 minion on turn 2? good luck...gets countered by weapons, totem golem, anything priest. backstab/si agent. it's just sad. and even with all the deathrattles the amount of AOE out there is insane.
literally no card draw in the kit. their only mechanic is random beasts in hand.
I've been really trying to make a grimy goons hunter deck work. The new MSOG hunter cards have a lot of potential because they have good synergy with the grimy goons deck Rat Pack, Dispatch Kodo,Knuckles. The problem is that a
1. A deck like this specializes in the midgame, and aggro pirate decks have become the dominant force shaping the meta.
2. Hunter class weaknesses are AOE and healing. Explosive trap and Unleash the hounds are the only two class AOE cards, and both are very situational and EXTREMELY WEAK against any other mid rangy deck.
BUT:
Sergeant Sallyseems to be the missing link. I think that a deck built for the midrange that has burst to beat out reno locks with Sally as a key card CAN be effective in the current META. Forlorn Stalker works well with Sally andRat Pack to allow you to be sticky against other AOE decks but also hve your own effective AOE to beat out the super Aggro decks.
I think if we had Hunter's mark still costing 0 g, it would be much easier. With such fast meta, hunters lack cheap tempo removal (see backtab, arcane blast) So many cards hunter was basing on have been nerfed (CoTW, Hunters mark, knife juggler)
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Not favoured by pirates and too slow to compete with pirates. All said.
I will crush you!
Give 'em a 1 mana weapon and a 2 mana-weapon, and it will be solved.
I'd enjoy it just for the flood of tears from the other pirate decks being crushed.
Piranha Launcher killed hunter.
How? by giving a useless card for an improbable Control Hunter, WHILE stealing room for a cheap weapon (even a 1-mana vanilla 1/3 Walking Stick weapon or whatever) that would have allowed Hunter to at least try Pirate in Standard.
I like the buff idea in Goons even if Jade is a lot stronger. Paladin got the best buff cards, Hunter got the worst, they are spread out and very hard to synergize. Like "buff all your deathrattle cards in your hand". Ok, I have one. I have never been a Hunter fan with all their aggro shit but both Warrior and Hunter need better buff cards. I think the two "buff all minions" cards should be Goon card for all Goon classes.
At least in Wild Hunter is still viable, so I can finish my 500 rank wins with the class. Also its viability in Wild shows how a single cheap Weapon allows Hunter to implement Patches, making a completely viable deck against Shamans, Reno decks, Miracle Rogue.
I hope Hunter will receive some good cards next expansion, although I think I will reach Golden Hunter in Wild even under these circumstances.
I'm currently close to golden hunter as well. I only need 20 more games, and I've been doing pretty well in wild too!
I think the problem right now is that Hunter's core strength, historically, has been the ability to put out pressure in the early game to transition into closing late game damage. With the quality of early game options at a historic high on average (between pirates and the board control options available to Reno lists, as well as dragon Priest), Hunter can't do what it needs to do to win, which is get ahead on the board with sticky minions. Since the class is fairly linear, the removal of its support structure for its win condition basically consigns it to the dumpster, at least for now. Hunter either needs more diverse tools, which Blizzard has made a few unstable moves towards, or more support for its earlygame options to keep up with the quality available to most other classes. The same is true for Paladins really, though their needs for diversity or a stronger toolkit and earlygame are somewhat different, of course.
Pre-tunnel trog Shaman is what happened to hunter.
It's not surprising that the class tanked with the release of MSG. The Hunter hero power is essentially useless against the exact meta we're in: other hyper aggro decks that go faster than you (Pirate) and Reno decks which have a card which entirely negates all the hero powers you've used up to that point.
Hunter is not a late game class; at best it can do mid-range and unfortunately mid-range is not good in the meta (sorry Goons). There isn't anything inherently wrong with this. Someone has to be at the bottom and it just happens to be Hunter this time. Hunter has been at or near top tier for a long stretch now, so it's fair that it has taken a backseat while other classes get to shine.
I think the cards Hunter got in MSG are very good in a vacuum and there is a good chance they will be quite viable in the future. Rat Pack, Alleycat, and Dispatch Kodo are amazingly efficient based solely on stats/effect to cost. I think once the first expansion of 2017 hits and all the Reno decks go bye-bye that Hunter will make a resurgence. I'm not sure it will be a Goons based deck, but I suppose it depends on what themes the next expansion brings.
Speaking in regards to the Grimy Goons theme, I feel the idea was interesting, but the execution of it was not done in a consistent enough way. Generally speaking the best decks are the ones where you can ensure the desired outcome the most times. The most consistent hand buff effects were given to Paladin (ie the effect buffs all minions in your hand), which coincidentally is the best version of the Goons strategy players have found (although still not really anything but Tier 3 at best currently). The Warrior and Hunter buff effects are bigger but are more random, which means you can't always count on the desired outcome. It also punishes you more when you essentially played two cards (the buff and the minion), but your opponent answers it with one spell.
Hunter is playing third fiddle aggro to a high synergy pirate warrior, and a more versatile and better valued shaman.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
better face decks atm.. there are a few good face hunter decks, but they got shafted in the goons spot
Renounce Darkness
hunter doesn't have an early game anymore. what can you play that doesn't get countered easily? lol alleycat....loses automatically against priest and rogue. two 1/1s? ha pirate decks bring a 1/2 and a 1/1 with charge....that can become a 3/2.
play a 3/2 minion on turn 2? good luck...gets countered by weapons, totem golem, anything priest. backstab/si agent. it's just sad. and even with all the deathrattles the amount of AOE out there is insane.
literally no card draw in the kit. their only mechanic is random beasts in hand.
I've been really trying to make a grimy goons hunter deck work. The new MSOG hunter cards have a lot of potential because they have good synergy with the grimy goons deck Rat Pack, Dispatch Kodo,Knuckles. The problem is that a
1. A deck like this specializes in the midgame, and aggro pirate decks have become the dominant force shaping the meta.
2. Hunter class weaknesses are AOE and healing. Explosive trap and Unleash the hounds are the only two class AOE cards, and both are very situational and EXTREMELY WEAK against any other mid rangy deck.
BUT:
Sergeant Sallyseems to be the missing link. I think that a deck built for the midrange that has burst to beat out reno locks with Sally as a key card CAN be effective in the current META. Forlorn Stalker works well with Sally andRat Pack to allow you to be sticky against other AOE decks but also hve your own effective AOE to beat out the super Aggro decks.
I think if we had Hunter's mark still costing 0 g, it would be much easier. With such fast meta, hunters lack cheap tempo removal (see backtab, arcane blast)
So many cards hunter was basing on have been nerfed (CoTW, Hunters mark, knife juggler)