Kibler made a good point on the issue: it is an odd design decision to give Druid both long-term ramp and burst ramp.
Maybe because devs wanted to not force single archetype for Druid when they designed classic cards, but instead give some options. Innervate is a fine card, but they just need an excuse to remove it and after releasing Jade Idol that excuse is found. They should've rotated Classic set completely, because - hey - that was the best designed expansion and their newly released cards SUCK (or are broken).
I still think you could do that in Druid. But the "doubling down" of the two types seems, from a design perspective, to be a bit of overkill.
Most classes have a way to cheat mana, and I think that's fine. But giving one class the two best ways to do it should probably change.
We don't need a nerf to Jade Druid... We need a nerf to Druid in general... I think the solution is simple, Innervate should read "Restore two mana crystals" instead of "Gain 2 mana crystals this turn only" which puts a stop to crazy turn one "Flappy Bird" as well as keeping Jade in check. Druid has plenty of "ramp" and this one change would slow the early play of broken combos as well as slightly delay Ultimate Infestation.
Why is this even worth a topic? Most of the arguments I have seen defending druid come down to "plz blizz no nerf I like the deck and don't want to face it less than 50% of the time cause I iz suck at this game and can't play a deck that doesn't revolve around playing stuff on curve".
I'm still convinced that most of the issue with jades is people complaining about them and not so much that the deck is overpowered. When people complain about a deck more people play that deck. The other part of the problem is that murloc paladin exists and that deck is oppressively fast and powerful. More people play jade and the best counter is murloc paladin so more people in turn play that. Of the 2 I think murloc paladin is more deserving of a nerf of some kind. If you don't draw your anti aggro right off the bat you just die, end of story. At least jade druid gives you 6-7 turns usually to get what you need.
Nerfing Jade Druid won't do anything worthwhile. Druid will still be the best class, and people would just be complaining about Midrange, Ramp, and Aggro.
The problem is that there is a critical mass of ramp spells, and druid (which is always a strong class) got 3 of the strongest cards in the expansion. I'm not sure what the fix is, but the fix needs to affect the entire class, not just one iteration of the class.
I still think that if they take away ramp, it might fix the problem. Without the ramp, the other cards are still powerful, but they play at point in the game where other classes have viable options to counter them. This is why only top aggro decks have a decent win rate against them, because they can hopefully get enough damage done, and enough on the board during a Druid's ramp phase, to survive the extreme advantage a Druid has on t-6 through t-10.
and if youut ake away the ramp then waht's fucking left for the druid? the class Has No AoE no deal with vomit hand smorcers and no Hard removal to deal with big things, taking out the ramp is just stupid and you should feel like an idiot for even suggesting that, if the problem is Jade Druid then you do something to Jade Idol and that's it, Jade shamman has already demonstrated that the Jade mechanic can be powerful yet fair if there's an end/limit to it.
What's left is one of the most powerful cards in the game (Ultimate Infestation), one of the better value cards in the game (Behemoth), a 6 mana 3/6 taunt with a token drop of increasing unknown size, a pretty damn good control mechanism (swipe), a hero power that not only can provide damage, but armor as well ... want me to keep going?
You could remove Jade Idol from the game entirely, and it would barely affect Druid in any way.
Oh .. and while I REALLY hate to play the grammar / spelling Nazi card ...
"you should feel like an idiot for even suggesting that," ... Before you call someone an idiot ... please read (or try to read) the first line of your post.
"and if youut ake away the ramp then waht's fucking left for the druid"
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland I wanna write her, name in the sky I wanna free fall, out into nothin' Gonna leave this, world for awhile
Nerfing Jade Druid won't do anything worthwhile. Druid will still be the best class, and people would just be complaining about Midrange, Ramp, and Aggro.
The problem is that there is a critical mass of ramp spells, and druid (which is always a strong class) got 3 of the strongest cards in the expansion. I'm not sure what the fix is, but the fix needs to affect the entire class, not just one iteration of the class.
I still think that if they take away ramp, it might fix the problem. Without the ramp, the other cards are still powerful, but they play at point in the game where other classes have viable options to counter them. This is why only top aggro decks have a decent win rate against them, because they can hopefully get enough damage done, and enough on the board during a Druid's ramp phase, to survive the extreme advantage a Druid has on t-6 through t-10.
and if youut ake away the ramp then waht's fucking left for the druid? the class Has No AoE no deal with vomit hand smorcers and no Hard removal to deal with big things, taking out the ramp is just stupid and you should feel like an idiot for even suggesting that, if the problem is Jade Druid then you do something to Jade Idol and that's it, Jade shamman has already demonstrated that the Jade mechanic can be powerful yet fair if there's an end/limit to it.
What's left is one of the most powerful cards in the game (Ultimate Infestation), one of the better value cards in the game (Behemoth), a 6 mana 3/6 taunt with a token drop of increasing unknown size, a pretty damn good control mechanism (swipe), a hero power that not only can provide damage, but armor as well ... want me to keep going?
You could remove Jade Idol from the game entirely, and it would barely affect Druid in any way.
Oh .. and while I REALLY hate to play the grammar / spelling Nazi card ...
"you should feel like an idiot for even suggesting that," ... Before you call someone an idiot ... please read (or try to read) the first line of your post.
"and if youut ake away the ramp then waht's fucking left for the druid"
Nerfing Jade Druid won't do anything worthwhile. Druid will still be the best class, and people would just be complaining about Midrange, Ramp, and Aggro.
The problem is that there is a critical mass of ramp spells, and druid (which is always a strong class) got 3 of the strongest cards in the expansion. I'm not sure what the fix is, but the fix needs to affect the entire class, not just one iteration of the class.
I still think that if they take away ramp, it might fix the problem. Without the ramp, the other cards are still powerful, but they play at point in the game where other classes have viable options to counter them. This is why only top aggro decks have a decent win rate against them, because they can hopefully get enough damage done, and enough on the board during a Druid's ramp phase, to survive the extreme advantage a Druid has on t-6 through t-10.
and if youut ake away the ramp then waht's fucking left for the druid? the class Has No AoE no deal with vomit hand smorcers and no Hard removal to deal with big things, taking out the ramp is just stupid and you should feel like an idiot for even suggesting that, if the problem is Jade Druid then you do something to Jade Idol and that's it, Jade shamman has already demonstrated that the Jade mechanic can be powerful yet fair if there's an end/limit to it.
What's left is one of the most powerful cards in the game (Ultimate Infestation), one of the better value cards in the game (Behemoth), a 6 mana 3/6 taunt with a token drop of increasing unknown size, a pretty damn good control mechanism (swipe), a hero power that not only can provide damage, but armor as well ... want me to keep going?
You could remove Jade Idol from the game entirely, and it would barely affect Druid in any way.
Oh .. and while I REALLY hate to play the grammar / spelling Nazi card ...
"you should feel like an idiot for even suggesting that," ... Before you call someone an idiot ... please read (or try to read) the first line of your post.
"and if youut ake away the ramp then waht's fucking left for the druid"
i 'm Dyslexic you bastard, it's way different
.. (namahS dellepsim uoy ... yltcefrep ylraen ,llew) yltcefrep ,toidi na em dellac uoy erehw gnidulcni ,tnemmoc eht fo tser eht epyt ot deganam uoy teY
...ereh esrever ot txet era uoy eveileb t'nod I hcihw ,cixelsyD erew uoy fi tihs a evig t'ndluow I os ,DRATSAB SSELTRAEH a ma I .. yaw eht yb dnA
Yet you managed to type the rest of the comment, including where you called me an idiot, perfectly (well, nearly perfectly ... you mispelled Shaman) ...
And by the way .. I am a HEARTLESS BASTARD, so I wouldn't give a shit if you were Dyslexic, which I don't believe you are ...
I swear I wish you people would stop complaining and crying about deck types. I don't really put loads of money in this game and I can't keep playing if everything I try out gets nerfed to the point that you can't use it. It's like this community wants you to play how they demand not how you want. How can you be okay with literally every other deck being played right now and not Jade Druid. Stop with this hypocritical BS and let Jade Druid alone.
So you expect people to stop complaining when you get free wins with a broken deck? How about playing for the win and overcoming a challenge for once? Nope, I hope they nerf it to the ground, and you learn to stop expecting getting your wins handed to you on a silver platter.
Blizzard can leave the jade mechanic alone it doesn't need a nerf imo. I just want spreading plague gone, that card alone has improved pretty much every single one of the jade druid's bad matchups so significantly that it's not really countered by anything anymore. Jade Druid is fine if you can play decks that consistently beat it in order to keep it from taking over the ladder but blizzard thought it was a good idea to print a card that removed almost all of druids weaknesses for some reason.
"Don't nerf Jade Druid because it's my favorite deck" is not a valid argument against nerfing. Jade Druid demands a nerf because it overcentralizes the metagame. At the time of posting, the top third of meta decks are either Jade Druid or decks favored against it (i.e. Murloc Paladin, Aggro Druid, or Pirate Warrior), and that's not healthy for the game. (Convince yourself this is true: http://metastats.net)
I am 100% confident there are players like you who are frustrated that their favorite deck is being dragged through the dirt. Not because it's getting nerfed, but because it's not Jade Druid. Whenever there is a nerf, some players are always going to be hurt. But it's for the good of the game.
The objective of Blizzard nerfing Innervate and Spreading Plague is to increase the variety of decks seen in the metagame. You mention wanting to "try out" new things, and we've learned time and time again that a lack of deck diversity in the metagame punishes that. Creative deckbuilding and playtesting don't happen when one deck is king.
"Don't nerf Jade Druid because it's my favorite deck" is not a valid argument against nerfing. Jade Druid demands a nerf because it overcentralizes the metagame. At the time of posting, the top third of meta decks are either Jade Druid or decks favored against it (i.e. Murloc Paladin, Aggro Druid, or Pirate Warrior), and that's not healthy for the game. (Posting the following link for reference: http://metastats.net)
I am 100% confident there are players like you who are frustrated that their favorite deck is being dragged through the dirt. Not because it's getting nerfed, but because it's not Jade Druid. You mention wanting to "try out" new things, and we've learned time and time again that a lack of deck diversity in the metagame punishes that. Creative deckbuilding and playtesting don't happen when one deck is king.
'Creative deckbuilding' will never happen in ladder past 10 rank. There will never be a perfectly balanced utopian metagame where MR. John Doe can go in a collection, craete a wonderful random deck and play on ladder without getting stomped by top tier decks. There will always be a jade druid or pirate warrior or evolve shaman that dominates. But yea, majority is ignorant, believe in miracles and overcome frustration with simplifying things in that way, as if 1 deck is the problem and if we remove it we could have heaven here. Yea buddy, sure. Cya when jades rotate out.
"Don't nerf Jade Druid because it's my favorite deck" is not a valid argument against nerfing. Jade Druid demands a nerf because it overcentralizes the metagame. At the time of posting, the top third of meta decks are either Jade Druid or decks favored against it (i.e. Murloc Paladin, Aggro Druid, or Pirate Warrior), and that's not healthy for the game. (Posting the following link for reference: http://metastats.net)
I am 100% confident there are players like you who are frustrated that their favorite deck is being dragged through the dirt. Not because it's getting nerfed, but because it's not Jade Druid. You mention wanting to "try out" new things, and we've learned time and time again that a lack of deck diversity in the metagame punishes that. Creative deckbuilding and playtesting don't happen when one deck is king.
'Creative deckbuilding' will never happen in ladder past 10 rank. There will never be a perfectly balanced utopian metagame where MR. John Doe can go in a collection, craete a wonderful random deck and play on ladder without getting stomped by top tier decks. There will always be a jade druid or pirate warrior or evolve shaman that dominates. But yea, majority is ignorant, believe in miracles and overcome frustration with simplifying things in that way, as if 1 deck is the problem and if we remove it we could have heaven here. Yea buddy, sure. Cya when jades rotate out.
Do not strawman my argument, QSRS. I never suggested we have a "utopian" metagame with no one deck being dominant. And I have played against creative ladder decks like Dead Man's Hand Warrior, Mill Rogue, and even Freeze Shaman. In Legend. I would like to see more them, and diversity is always good for the game. Sadly, a big reason these decks are not played more in the upper echelons of ladder is that they cannot compete.
What do you suggest is the best way to improve deck diversity? Last I checked, rarely in Hearthstone history has a deck and its checks encompassed more than 30% of the metagame without getting the nerf bat. Most of those times, that bat has been a healthy change. (Do you think Hearthstone would be better if Warsong Commander still gave Molten Giants Charge? I dont think so.) I say with confidence Jade Druid deserves the bat.
Check my last post, read the current meta statistics, and feel free to challenge me if you still disagree.
We don't need a nerf to Jade Druid... We need a nerf to Druid in general... I think the solution is simple, Innervate should read "Restore two mana crystals" instead of "Gain 2 mana crystals this turn only" which puts a stop to crazy turn one "Flappy Bird" as well as keeping Jade in check. Druid has plenty of "ramp" and this one change would slow the early play of broken combos as well as slightly delay Ultimate Infestation.
Why is this even worth a topic? Most of the arguments I have seen defending druid come down to "plz blizz no nerf I like the deck and don't want to face it less than 50% of the time cause I iz suck at this game and can't play a deck that doesn't revolve around playing stuff on curve".
I'm still convinced that most of the issue with jades is people complaining about them and not so much that the deck is overpowered. When people complain about a deck more people play that deck. The other part of the problem is that murloc paladin exists and that deck is oppressively fast and powerful. More people play jade and the best counter is murloc paladin so more people in turn play that. Of the 2 I think murloc paladin is more deserving of a nerf of some kind. If you don't draw your anti aggro right off the bat you just die, end of story. At least jade druid gives you 6-7 turns usually to get what you need.
You could remove Jade Idol from the game entirely, and it would barely affect Druid in any way.
"you should feel like an idiot for even suggesting that," ...
Before you call someone an idiot ... please read (or try to read) the first line of your post.
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile
Oh but he HATES playing the grammar nazi card
just like how I hate spreading plague and yet play it all the time, might as well because it is getting nerfed to hell and back, as it should
.. (namahS dellepsim uoy ... yltcefrep ylraen ,llew) yltcefrep ,toidi na em dellac uoy erehw gnidulcni ,tnemmoc eht fo tser eht epyt ot deganam uoy teY
...ereh esrever ot txet era uoy eveileb t'nod I hcihw ,cixelsyD erew uoy fi tihs a evig t'ndluow I os ,DRATSAB SSELTRAEH a ma I .. yaw eht yb dnA
Yet you managed to type the rest of the comment, including where you called me an idiot, perfectly (well, nearly perfectly ... you mispelled Shaman) ...
And by the way .. I am a HEARTLESS BASTARD, so I wouldn't give a shit if you were Dyslexic, which I don't believe you are ...
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile
Blizzard can leave the jade mechanic alone it doesn't need a nerf imo. I just want spreading plague gone, that card alone has improved pretty much every single one of the jade druid's bad matchups so significantly that it's not really countered by anything anymore. Jade Druid is fine if you can play decks that consistently beat it in order to keep it from taking over the ladder but blizzard thought it was a good idea to print a card that removed almost all of druids weaknesses for some reason.
"Don't nerf Jade Druid because it's my favorite deck" is not a valid argument against nerfing. Jade Druid demands a nerf because it overcentralizes the metagame. At the time of posting, the top third of meta decks are either Jade Druid or decks favored against it (i.e. Murloc Paladin, Aggro Druid, or Pirate Warrior), and that's not healthy for the game. (Convince yourself this is true: http://metastats.net)
I am 100% confident there are players like you who are frustrated that their favorite deck is being dragged through the dirt. Not because it's getting nerfed, but because it's not Jade Druid. Whenever there is a nerf, some players are always going to be hurt. But it's for the good of the game.
The objective of Blizzard nerfing Innervate and Spreading Plague is to increase the variety of decks seen in the metagame. You mention wanting to "try out" new things, and we've learned time and time again that a lack of deck diversity in the metagame punishes that. Creative deckbuilding and playtesting don't happen when one deck is king.
Quasi-stellar radio source
Tell me how is this balanced?
https://hsreplay.net/replay/oTEwhmi8j4U8g5kbAvMesZ
Why does this skilless braindead tryharder has 10 mana and as much cards as me on turn 5? What the hell am I supposed to do?