We wondering off-topic, the OP has a good argument. Just think about it, DH got nerfed twice with many different cards, and its still top tier 1 deck. The amount of tempo it has is insane and these huge tempo swings come with the crazy amount of stats! Glaivebound Adept, as a 4-4 would still be considered strong because of the tempo it brings. So why is it blizzard deliberately makes it way to overpowered, they have ways to test this before it goes live so I'm confident they knew about this. And now everyone has enough of DH for legit reasons!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
" In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded."
Oh buhu im so sorry mr galakrond rogue, you have a matchup that is about 50% winrate. Thats not fair, gala rogue should have 70% winrate against every class ofcourse.
Sigh, do you guys even read -.-'' ? Yes, I ALSO played Rogue this season (Highlander Rogue, not full Galakrond, which seems to be the most popular). 20-23 vs DH,32% of my encounters. Before that I did the climb D5 - Legend with Highlander Priest. (22-23 vs DH, 34% of my encounters). I'm currently using Kibler's Quest Warrior (13-15 vs DH, 39% of my encounters ).
Quite different playstyles.
So, the point you guys are missing (big time) IS NOT "buhu, Rogue is unfavored vs DH", but IS ACTUALLY "buhu, DH is still not balanced at all after 2 rounds of nerfs, the second of which was basically a joke and actually made the class stronger thanks to the nerf to sac pac. It's making the game experience toxic and I don't like it at all".
I genuinely don't think I can explain it in a clearer way.
And the point you're missing is that the nerfs to DH were absolutely effective, the class is now as good as about 3 or 4 other classes/decks that are seeing a lot of play and having a lot of success - including some of the ones you're playing - so it's time to f-ing stop complaining everyday. Because if DH is not balanced as you say, so isn't Rogue, Hunter and that new Tempo Warrior.Shall we nerf everything to the ground? Adding that you're mainly playing Rogue just added insult to injury, considering the class also has some cards that are clearly overtuned af (Blackjack Stunner and the entire secret package are insane). Many people are reporting Rogue singlehandedly killing Druid off the meta. Shadowjeweler lategame turns are giving me Mysterious Challenger vietnam-style flashbacks, and you're still going on about Sac Pact?! Unbelievable that people still think that a single class having an exclusive "fuck this other class" card was ok.
Also, Tempo DH popularity in term of playrate is inflated simply because it costs A LOT less than the other tier1 options to craft. Not everyone has the dust to play decks running 10 legendaries.
And if you think the DH nerfs did nothing you're crazy. Battlefiend starting at 1 atk is a HUGE deal and allowed me to stabilize with a decent amount of HPs against DH more times than I can count, you can now easily get something like 4-6 less damage over the course of a game from double Battlefiend openings compared to pre-nerf, putting you out of his burst lethal range at turn 5-7. The first round of nerfs + the Kaelthas one on the second wave completely killed Combo DH. Aldrachi's nerf was another huge deal for aggro vs aggro matchups (and combo vs aggro too), you could as well instaconcede those before, there was about no reason to play any aggro but DH. Skull at 6 gets stuck in hand a lot more easily now, especially now that DHs are reincluding higher drops. Before the nerf, playing non-outcast Skull was actually ok, giving DH some undeserved victory chances in games he had no business winning; now without Outcast it's garbage.
The game is in an ok-ish state now, there are like 4 classes out of 10 with extremely competitive decks, and another 2 or 3 with strong or at least playable decks. That's about as balanced as we can ever hope to get. Sure some classes could use some buffs (and I do hope they'll receive them. Go Shaman), but further nerfs to DH would just put the class in the dumpster along with Paladin and Shaman.
When did I even say every deck should be equal you tool.
Wow, going with the name calling argument...
You said you don't like the " play a better deck" argument. So how is it not the same? If you play a bad deck in the meta, change to a better one. If you don't play a good deck and you don't want to change don't expect to win. Is that so hard to understand. The only way for that not to be the case is when every deck is equal, but that is not healthy for the game.
Let me start of by saying I agree with some points, like Altruis. It still feels like one of the most powerful Legendaries the game has ever had, and it’s way too easy to completely abuse the effect. It needed an effect-nerf, not this rather lazy mana/attack-nerf.
However, I do not agree with the overall sentiment of the post. Rather than saying they screwed up, can we start saying they tried something new and it came out more powerful and meta-warping than they anticipated? I for one, welcome the fact they launched a new class, and Dean has said multiple times, if not in every interview leading up to the launch of AoO, this is their first time doing this and we should show patience. Can we actually start doing that? They have been fast enough with the nerfs, faster than they ever were.
People pretend Demon Hunter is still the same power level it was at launch, and it’s simply not, by a long shot. The nerfs had enough impact to make many more decks at least tier 2 or higher. Long story short: I’d rather have them add more classes in the future and fix their PL in the upcoming month or two, than them being afraid to do that now because of all the downright hatred they got for trying it in the first place.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing meme decks/characters does not entitle you to call a meta bad.
Shitty player here. I can garantee you that one of the things keeping DH above everyone else is Altruis and the 0 mana slices. Ive seen the following happening to streamers and just yesterday to me:
Opponent has no board and i have 5 6 drops minions cause of shannanings with conjures calling including a deathrattle from that 6 mana classic legendary. Turn 9 btw. Im at 15 heath with lethal on board for next turn.
My DH opponent plays Altruis and just goes to town with 4 slices and other cheap cards that keeps him drawing while clearing the board and doing face dmg. I was left with just a 4/1 on board 3 health remaining and my opponent had Altruis on board and that 4/2 satyr and the 2/2 token from it. How is this balanced for an aggro deck?
I think everybody sane questioned the Sac Pact nerf. Except a few people whining on reddit and here (you know who you are, you fucking muppets). SInce it went live and DH recieved an obvious quasi-BUFF I've been playing mainly BGs, but when I do play constructed I'm playnig exclusively DH...I have given in, and am doing what Blizzard clearly wants me to do.
The really fucked up thing about DHs is that they will polarise the meta like reno-mage deck vs pirate warrior - arguably the worst meta we ever had, as it was soooo polarised. We will end up with a meta of control/value priests Vs Demon Hunters...and everything else is either too slow or not greedy enough and squeezed out.
DH is obviously a mistake in its current form. It should have been a good, new class to play... but not dominating the ladder everywhere. And it feels awful to play against it. Just awful.
I want to thank one of the posters on page 1 for suggesting a Pure Paladin list that might actually be competitive, because I want to try new things.
I refuse to play DH or Rogue. Both feel broken to me, with the first one being only slighter worse than the other. I won't personally contribute to the madness on the ladder or the frustration of other players. I prefer to play an underdog class and see how I can do. Rank is meaningless now anyway - there are over 100,000 legend players and climbing.
So, I'll be sticking with Shaman and Paladin. Losing to DH means nothing. Winning feels like a major accomplishment. Have to have some hope that Blizzard fixes this problem over the next month.
I think everybody sane questioned the Sac Pact nerf. Except a few people whining on reddit and here (you know who you are, you fucking muppets). SInce it went live and DH recieved an obvious quasi-BUFF I've been playing mainly BGs, but when I do play constructed I'm playnig exclusively DH...I have given in, and am doing what Blizzard clearly wants me to do.
The really fucked up thing about DHs is that they will polarise the meta like reno-mage deck vs pirate warrior - arguably the worst meta we ever had, as it was soooo polarised. We will end up with a meta of control/value priests Vs Demon Hunters...and everything else is either too slow or not greedy enough and squeezed out.
A 0 mana kill a minion heal 5 is not balanced, and not what the card is supposed to do. And you are not supposed to have a counter to another class as a class card. Anyone sane would see that
I think everybody sane questioned the Sac Pact nerf. Except a few people whining on reddit and here (you know who you are, you fucking muppets). SInce it went live and DH recieved an obvious quasi-BUFF I've been playing mainly BGs, but when I do play constructed I'm playnig exclusively DH...I have given in, and am doing what Blizzard clearly wants me to do.
The really fucked up thing about DHs is that they will polarise the meta like reno-mage deck vs pirate warrior - arguably the worst meta we ever had, as it was soooo polarised. We will end up with a meta of control/value priests Vs Demon Hunters...and everything else is either too slow or not greedy enough and squeezed out.
A 0 mana kill a minion heal 5 is not balanced, and not what the card is supposed to do. And you are not supposed to have a counter to another class as a class card. Anyone sane would see that
Disagree, and I think the entire DH class was built by Blizzard around the existance of sacrificial pact. They didn't just forget about it while creating a demon based class.
I think everybody sane questioned the Sac Pact nerf. Except a few people whining on reddit and here (you know who you are, you fucking muppets). SInce it went live and DH recieved an obvious quasi-BUFF I've been playing mainly BGs, but when I do play constructed I'm playnig exclusively DH...I have given in, and am doing what Blizzard clearly wants me to do.
The really fucked up thing about DHs is that they will polarise the meta like reno-mage deck vs pirate warrior - arguably the worst meta we ever had, as it was soooo polarised. We will end up with a meta of control/value priests Vs Demon Hunters...and everything else is either too slow or not greedy enough and squeezed out.
A 0 mana kill a minion heal 5 is not balanced, and not what the card is supposed to do. And you are not supposed to have a counter to another class as a class card. Anyone sane would see that
Disagree, and I think the entire DH class was built by Blizzard around the existance of sacrificial pact. They didn't just forget about it while creating a demon based class.
If it was, I don't believe they would nerf it. Look forward to some neutral demon counters though
I think everybody sane questioned the Sac Pact nerf. Except a few people whining on reddit and here (you know who you are, you fucking muppets). SInce it went live and DH recieved an obvious quasi-BUFF I've been playing mainly BGs, but when I do play constructed I'm playnig exclusively DH...I have given in, and am doing what Blizzard clearly wants me to do.
The really fucked up thing about DHs is that they will polarise the meta like reno-mage deck vs pirate warrior - arguably the worst meta we ever had, as it was soooo polarised. We will end up with a meta of control/value priests Vs Demon Hunters...and everything else is either too slow or not greedy enough and squeezed out.
A 0 mana kill a minion heal 5 is not balanced, and not what the card is supposed to do. And you are not supposed to have a counter to another class as a class card. Anyone sane would see that
Disagree, and I think the entire DH class was built by Blizzard around the existance of sacrificial pact. They didn't just forget about it while creating a demon based class.
If it was, I don't believe they would nerf it. Look forward to some neutral demon counters though
They nerfed becasue the whining was out of control, timmys want to play their 2 x7 mana ragnaros' risk free. If you honestly think they forgot about sac pact when designing Demon Hunter you have literally zero respect for Blizzard as developers.
Ok, wow, I'm glad the discussion is engaging so many people. A few more things i'd like to point:
1) Sorry, i didn't mean that the nerfs didn't accomplish anything. The first ones yes, they were on the dot (maybe still too light the one to Skull of Gul'dan). The second round? Not so much. Altruis costing 1 mana more is still ridicolously good, Glaivebound Adept I insist not counting it as a nerf, Battlefiend starting at 1 atk, yes, it helps, but honestly, it was insane from the start: 1 mana 2/2 with no downside but actually a huge snowballing upside? WTF? Who came up with that? And who said 'Yeah, seems legit, let's do it' ? Still the best 1 drop in the game.
2) I honestly don't understand all this hate vs Rogue, to the point that seems that this class is the real problem for many of you. I played a lot both AS and VS Rogue. Yes, it's very strong. But somehow fair. I may win or lose, but I don't recall a game where I felt that the class was unfair and overtuned. It let's you play, has counters. Has highrolls, but even a Galakrond into Kronx for 0 mana comes only at turn 7 and onwards. And almost certainly by turn 7 you are not at 5 hp, making suboptimal plays to not die next turn when you face rogue.
3) I'm genuinely shocked learning that many of you think DH is fine. I'd appreciate if those who defend it (and play it) would say it. Just a quick recap on the most broken cards: - Priestess of Fury : a better Ragnaros: runnable in 2x, playable as early as turn 5, that can attack, that split the damage with face and board (no risk of 6 damage on a Silver Hand Recruit). Ragnaros: a legendary that was Hall of Famed because it felt too much like the go-to for the 8 mana spot for too many classes. - Twin Slice: I swear, i would be fine with Glaivebound Adept if it wasn't for this card. Most of the time it would be just like a Fire Elemental that deals one more damage but has 1 less health... and maybe to trigger its effect my opponent even had to atk face into one of my taunts. But of course this card has plenty other chances to shine: it's a key card for a great Altruis turn. That's where it shines the most. Worst case scenario? 0 mana deal 2 damage. Wow. -Metamorphosis : you lost the board and are now in topdeck mode? Here is the solution to all your problems: a Pyroblast splitted in 2 turns for a total cost of 7 mana, TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO AVOID (if someone says Grizzled Wizard please, let me first see you playing it, then we'll talk). Chances are that you won't need the second use. In fact, even if you didn't lethal after the first one, it will be your opponent to concede after he won't draw the the heal he was hoping for. So much energy saved! - Warglaives of Azzinoth :let's just compare it to Doomhammer. Or a more recent one, Sul'thraze. Seriously, do I need to add anything? - Skull of Gul'dan: there is no need to explain. - Altruis the Outcast: same as above
4) The 'it's cheap' argument is bullshit. Whether you are new or a returning player, you get a free deck, including one with so many great neutral legendaries like Highlander mage. So is the argument 'It's new, people are experimenting the new class'. BULLSHIT. People play it because it's OP, games are short and has a crazy high winrate. I don't know how many people usually reach legend each month, but in my friend list I saw up to legend 52k (EU). I think it says all,
5) Here is a link to a replay of mine vs DH. It's only 7 turns long. https://hsreplay.net/replay/Cq5JEARHJh8pdvwbuv2cmM Please, please enlighten me on how to get better at the game. Show me the billions of other possible plays I could and should have done instead. Most of all, keep telling me that the class doesn't need further adjustments and it's fine as it is. (I'M NOT saying I'm the best player and i have no space to improve. NO. I'm saying that most of the time there isn't much you can do).
That's it, i'm really done explaining my point of view.
With so many demon card minions, don't you think there should be a tech card against demon types? DH and locks use many demon type cards. For example, there are card counters like a hungry crab or dragonmaw poacher. What does this comment have anything to do with the post? Instead of nerfing cards, why dont they add tech counters? If there is no counter to mechanics of a card game then there is problems. I’m sure they are aware, they nerfed card sacrificial pact. I thought that classes like Paladin or priest would have some cards to fight against demons, lore wise it makes sense..
Ok, wow, I'm glad the discussion is engaging so many people. A few more things i'd like to point:
1) Sorry, i didn't mean that the nerfs didn't accomplish anything. The first ones yes, they were on the dot (maybe still too light the one to Skull of Gul'dan). The second round? Not so much. Altruis costing 1 mana more is still ridicolously good, Glaivebound Adept I insist not counting it as a nerf, Battlefiend starting at 1 atk, yes, it helps, but honestly, it was insane from the start: 1 mana 2/2 with no downside but actually a huge snowballing upside? WTF? Who came up with that? And who said 'Yeah, seems legit, let's do it' ? Still the best 1 drop in the game.
2) I honestly don't understand all this hate vs Rogue, to the point that seems that this class is the real problem for many of you. I played a lot both AS and VS Rogue. Yes, it's very strong. But somehow fair. I may win or lose, but I don't recall a game where I felt that the class was unfair and overtuned. It let's you play, has counters. Has highrolls, but even a Galakrond into Kronx for 0 mana comes only at turn 7 and onwards. And almost certainly by turn 7 you are not at 5 hp, making suboptimal plays to not die next turn when you face rogue.
3) I'm genuinely shocked learning that many of you think DH is fine. I'd appreciate if those who defend it (and play it) would say it. Just a quick recap on the most broken cards: - Priestess of Fury : a better Ragnaros: runnable in 2x, playable as early as turn 5, that can attack, that split the damage with face and board (no risk of 6 damage on a Silver Hand Recruit). Ragnaros: a legendary that was Hall of Famed because it felt too much like the go-to for the 8 mana spot for too many classes. - Twin Slice: I swear, i would be fine with Glaivebound Adept if it wasn't for this card. Most of the time it would be just like a Fire Elemental that deals one more damage but has 1 less health... and maybe to trigger its effect my opponent even had to atk face into one of my taunts. But of course this card has plenty other chances to shine: it's a key card for a great Altruis turn. That's where it shines the most. Worst case scenario? 0 mana deal 2 damage. Wow. -Metamorphosis : you lost the board and are now in topdeck mode? Here is the solution to all your problems: a Pyroblast splitted in 2 turns for a total cost of 7 mana, TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO AVOID (if someone says Grizzled Wizard please, let me first see you playing it, then we'll talk). Chances are that you won't need the second use. In fact, even if you didn't lethal after the first one, it will be your opponent to concede after he won't draw the the heal he was hoping for. So much energy saved! - Warglaives of Azzinoth :let's just compare it to Doomhammer. Or a more recent one, Sul'thraze. Seriously, do I need to add anything? - Skull of Gul'dan: there is no need to explain. - Altruis the Outcast: same as above
4) The 'it's cheap' argument is bullshit. Whether you are new or a returning player, you get a free deck, including one with so many great neutral legendaries like Highlander mage. So is the argument 'It's new, people are experimenting the new class'. BULLSHIT. People play it because it's OP, games are short and has a crazy high winrate. I don't know how many people usually reach legend each month, but in my friend list I saw up to legend 52k (EU). I think it says all,
5) Here is a link to a replay of mine vs DH. It's only 7 turns long. https://hsreplay.net/replay/Cq5JEARHJh8pdvwbuv2cmM Please, please enlighten me on how to get better at the game. Show me the billions of other possible plays I could and should have done instead. Most of all, keep telling me that the class doesn't need further adjustments and it's fine as it is. (I'M NOT saying I'm the best player and i have no space to improve. NO. I'm saying that most of the time there isn't much you can do).
That's it, i'm really done explaining my point of view.
Your point of view is completely biased, if I go card for card I could make a similar list of completely bonkers cards for at least 4 other classes. Starting from Shadowjeweler Hanar getting ridiculous turns 7/8 swinging combos not dissimilar in power level from Altruis', Blackjack Stunner being a 1 mana targettable Freezing Trap on a stick, a card that in Hunter can win games on its own, somehow they thought making that effect targettable in Rogue was fine... I could go on for days.
The comparisons between Priestess and Ragnaros are honestly getting stale. Priestess does jack shit on a board where Ragnaros would shine (1-2 BIG minions on the opponent's side) and viceversa, the cards are similar in concept but completely different in application. One functions on a wide small board and the other on a tall one. Moreover, 7+ drops are supposed to be powerful. I'm not paying 7 mana for something that doesn't have an immediate effect and a lasting threatening one. The only issue with Priestess is DH ability to cheat her out on turn 5, which I agree it's too powerful. But if that's unacceptable to you, then I'm wondering what you think of Druids constantly playing their 7 mana turn against your turn 3, while casually dropping down ridiculous shit like Evasive Drakonid summoning Winged Guardian from the deck via Strength in Numbers. Or is that fine since it kills you over 2 turns with almost no possible counterplay instead of 1?
So I'm not going to counter your other arguments card for card because it's pointless. As for Rogue being hated oh I don't know, it may have something to do with the lackey RNG feeling awful when you're on the receiving end of a perfect generated lackey ruining your plans (while the other 7 would have been fine), or maybe because they play 15 cards per turn without somehow ever running out, or maybe the 0-cost cards BS - oh, these last two points remind you of some other class perhaps? Also the cheap dust argument is absolutely valid too, not everyone had access to the returning player freebies, and besides the Mage deck only have Alex Zephrys and Reno... Alex and Zephrys are good for other highlanders sure, too bad those same decks require at other 6 or more legendaries on top of those two to function in their best iteration (please look at any Highlander Mage or Hunter list and tell me anyone could afford it).
This.
We wondering off-topic, the OP has a good argument. Just think about it, DH got nerfed twice with many different cards, and its still top tier 1 deck. The amount of tempo it has is insane and these huge tempo swings come with the crazy amount of stats!
Glaivebound Adept, as a 4-4 would still be considered strong because of the tempo it brings. So why is it blizzard deliberately makes it way to overpowered, they have ways to test this before it goes live so I'm confident they knew about this.
And now everyone has enough of DH for legit reasons!
" In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded."
And the point you're missing is that the nerfs to DH were absolutely effective, the class is now as good as about 3 or 4 other classes/decks that are seeing a lot of play and having a lot of success - including some of the ones you're playing - so it's time to f-ing stop complaining everyday. Because if DH is not balanced as you say, so isn't Rogue, Hunter and that new Tempo Warrior. Shall we nerf everything to the ground? Adding that you're mainly playing Rogue just added insult to injury, considering the class also has some cards that are clearly overtuned af (Blackjack Stunner and the entire secret package are insane). Many people are reporting Rogue singlehandedly killing Druid off the meta. Shadowjeweler lategame turns are giving me Mysterious Challenger vietnam-style flashbacks, and you're still going on about Sac Pact?! Unbelievable that people still think that a single class having an exclusive "fuck this other class" card was ok.
Also, Tempo DH popularity in term of playrate is inflated simply because it costs A LOT less than the other tier1 options to craft. Not everyone has the dust to play decks running 10 legendaries.
And if you think the DH nerfs did nothing you're crazy. Battlefiend starting at 1 atk is a HUGE deal and allowed me to stabilize with a decent amount of HPs against DH more times than I can count, you can now easily get something like 4-6 less damage over the course of a game from double Battlefiend openings compared to pre-nerf, putting you out of his burst lethal range at turn 5-7. The first round of nerfs + the Kaelthas one on the second wave completely killed Combo DH. Aldrachi's nerf was another huge deal for aggro vs aggro matchups (and combo vs aggro too), you could as well instaconcede those before, there was about no reason to play any aggro but DH. Skull at 6 gets stuck in hand a lot more easily now, especially now that DHs are reincluding higher drops. Before the nerf, playing non-outcast Skull was actually ok, giving DH some undeserved victory chances in games he had no business winning; now without Outcast it's garbage.
The game is in an ok-ish state now, there are like 4 classes out of 10 with extremely competitive decks, and another 2 or 3 with strong or at least playable decks. That's about as balanced as we can ever hope to get. Sure some classes could use some buffs (and I do hope they'll receive them. Go Shaman), but further nerfs to DH would just put the class in the dumpster along with Paladin and Shaman.
Wow, going with the name calling argument...
You said you don't like the " play a better deck" argument. So how is it not the same? If you play a bad deck in the meta, change to a better one. If you don't play a good deck and you don't want to change don't expect to win. Is that so hard to understand. The only way for that not to be the case is when every deck is equal, but that is not healthy for the game.
Silver Hand Recruit
Let me start of by saying I agree with some points, like Altruis. It still feels like one of the most powerful Legendaries the game has ever had, and it’s way too easy to completely abuse the effect. It needed an effect-nerf, not this rather lazy mana/attack-nerf.
However, I do not agree with the overall sentiment of the post. Rather than saying they screwed up, can we start saying they tried something new and it came out more powerful and meta-warping than they anticipated? I for one, welcome the fact they launched a new class, and Dean has said multiple times, if not in every interview leading up to the launch of AoO, this is their first time doing this and we should show patience. Can we actually start doing that? They have been fast enough with the nerfs, faster than they ever were.
People pretend Demon Hunter is still the same power level it was at launch, and it’s simply not, by a long shot. The nerfs had enough impact to make many more decks at least tier 2 or higher. Long story short: I’d rather have them add more classes in the future and fix their PL in the upcoming month or two, than them being afraid to do that now because of all the downright hatred they got for trying it in the first place.
Playing meme decks/characters does not entitle you to call a meta bad.
Shitty player here. I can garantee you that one of the things keeping DH above everyone else is Altruis and the 0 mana slices. Ive seen the following happening to streamers and just yesterday to me:
Opponent has no board and i have 5 6 drops minions cause of shannanings with conjures calling including a deathrattle from that 6 mana classic legendary. Turn 9 btw. Im at 15 heath with lethal on board for next turn.
My DH opponent plays Altruis and just goes to town with 4 slices and other cheap cards that keeps him drawing while clearing the board and doing face dmg. I was left with just a 4/1 on board 3 health remaining and my opponent had Altruis on board and that 4/2 satyr and the 2/2 token from it. How is this balanced for an aggro deck?
I think everybody sane questioned the Sac Pact nerf. Except a few people whining on reddit and here (you know who you are, you fucking muppets). SInce it went live and DH recieved an obvious quasi-BUFF I've been playing mainly BGs, but when I do play constructed I'm playnig exclusively DH...I have given in, and am doing what Blizzard clearly wants me to do.
The really fucked up thing about DHs is that they will polarise the meta like reno-mage deck vs pirate warrior - arguably the worst meta we ever had, as it was soooo polarised. We will end up with a meta of control/value priests Vs Demon Hunters...and everything else is either too slow or not greedy enough and squeezed out.
Another dead useless thread.
DH is obviously a mistake in its current form. It should have been a good, new class to play... but not dominating the ladder everywhere. And it feels awful to play against it. Just awful.
I want to thank one of the posters on page 1 for suggesting a Pure Paladin list that might actually be competitive, because I want to try new things.
I refuse to play DH or Rogue. Both feel broken to me, with the first one being only slighter worse than the other. I won't personally contribute to the madness on the ladder or the frustration of other players. I prefer to play an underdog class and see how I can do. Rank is meaningless now anyway - there are over 100,000 legend players and climbing.
So, I'll be sticking with Shaman and Paladin. Losing to DH means nothing. Winning feels like a major accomplishment. Have to have some hope that Blizzard fixes this problem over the next month.
A 0 mana kill a minion heal 5 is not balanced, and not what the card is supposed to do. And you are not supposed to have a counter to another class as a class card. Anyone sane would see that
Silver Hand Recruit
Disagree, and I think the entire DH class was built by Blizzard around the existance of sacrificial pact. They didn't just forget about it while creating a demon based class.
If it was, I don't believe they would nerf it. Look forward to some neutral demon counters though
Silver Hand Recruit
They nerfed becasue the whining was out of control, timmys want to play their 2 x7 mana ragnaros' risk free. If you honestly think they forgot about sac pact when designing Demon Hunter you have literally zero respect for Blizzard as developers.
Ok, wow, I'm glad the discussion is engaging so many people.
A few more things i'd like to point:
1) Sorry, i didn't mean that the nerfs didn't accomplish anything. The first ones yes, they were on the dot (maybe still too light the one to Skull of Gul'dan). The second round? Not so much. Altruis costing 1 mana more is still ridicolously good, Glaivebound Adept I insist not counting it as a nerf, Battlefiend starting at 1 atk, yes, it helps, but honestly, it was insane from the start: 1 mana 2/2 with no downside but actually a huge snowballing upside? WTF? Who came up with that? And who said 'Yeah, seems legit, let's do it' ? Still the best 1 drop in the game.
2) I honestly don't understand all this hate vs Rogue, to the point that seems that this class is the real problem for many of you. I played a lot both AS and VS Rogue. Yes, it's very strong. But somehow fair. I may win or lose, but I don't recall a game where I felt that the class was unfair and overtuned. It let's you play, has counters. Has highrolls, but even a Galakrond into Kronx for 0 mana comes only at turn 7 and onwards. And almost certainly by turn 7 you are not at 5 hp, making suboptimal plays to not die next turn when you face rogue.
3) I'm genuinely shocked learning that many of you think DH is fine. I'd appreciate if those who defend it (and play it) would say it. Just a quick recap on the most broken cards:
- Priestess of Fury :
a better Ragnaros: runnable in 2x, playable as early as turn 5, that can attack, that split the damage with face and board (no risk of 6 damage on a Silver Hand Recruit). Ragnaros: a legendary that was Hall of Famed because it felt too much like the go-to for the 8 mana spot for too many classes.
- Twin Slice: I swear, i would be fine with Glaivebound Adept if it wasn't for this card. Most of the time it would be just like a Fire Elemental that deals one more damage but has 1 less health... and maybe to trigger its effect my opponent even had to atk face into one of my taunts. But of course this card has plenty other chances to shine: it's a key card for a great Altruis turn. That's where it shines the most. Worst case scenario? 0 mana deal 2 damage. Wow.
-Metamorphosis : you lost the board and are now in topdeck mode? Here is the solution to all your problems: a Pyroblast splitted in 2 turns for a total cost of 7 mana, TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO AVOID (if someone says Grizzled Wizard please, let me first see you playing it, then we'll talk). Chances are that you won't need the second use. In fact, even if you didn't lethal after the first one, it will be your opponent to concede after he won't draw the the heal he was hoping for. So much energy saved!
- Warglaives of Azzinoth :let's just compare it to Doomhammer. Or a more recent one, Sul'thraze. Seriously, do I need to add anything?
- Skull of Gul'dan: there is no need to explain.
- Altruis the Outcast: same as above
4) The 'it's cheap' argument is bullshit. Whether you are new or a returning player, you get a free deck, including one with so many great neutral legendaries like Highlander mage. So is the argument 'It's new, people are experimenting the new class'. BULLSHIT. People play it because it's OP, games are short and has a crazy high winrate. I don't know how many people usually reach legend each month, but in my friend list I saw up to legend 52k (EU). I think it says all,
5) Here is a link to a replay of mine vs DH. It's only 7 turns long. https://hsreplay.net/replay/Cq5JEARHJh8pdvwbuv2cmM
Please, please enlighten me on how to get better at the game. Show me the billions of other possible plays I could and should have done instead. Most of all, keep telling me that the class doesn't need further adjustments and it's fine as it is.
(I'M NOT saying I'm the best player and i have no space to improve. NO. I'm saying that most of the time there isn't much you can do).
That's it, i'm really done explaining my point of view.
With so many demon card minions, don't you think there should be a tech card against demon types? DH and locks use many demon type cards. For example, there are card counters like a hungry crab or dragonmaw poacher. What does this comment have anything to do with the post? Instead of nerfing cards, why dont they add tech counters? If there is no counter to mechanics of a card game then there is problems. I’m sure they are aware, they nerfed card sacrificial pact. I thought that classes like Paladin or priest would have some cards to fight against demons, lore wise it makes sense..
Kids always complain.
.
Yep they made big mistake with this DH. It was totally unnecesary, 9 classes was enough. They cant remove it but they should rework it..
Your point of view is completely biased, if I go card for card I could make a similar list of completely bonkers cards for at least 4 other classes. Starting from Shadowjeweler Hanar getting ridiculous turns 7/8 swinging combos not dissimilar in power level from Altruis', Blackjack Stunner being a 1 mana targettable Freezing Trap on a stick, a card that in Hunter can win games on its own, somehow they thought making that effect targettable in Rogue was fine... I could go on for days.
The comparisons between Priestess and Ragnaros are honestly getting stale. Priestess does jack shit on a board where Ragnaros would shine (1-2 BIG minions on the opponent's side) and viceversa, the cards are similar in concept but completely different in application. One functions on a wide small board and the other on a tall one. Moreover, 7+ drops are supposed to be powerful. I'm not paying 7 mana for something that doesn't have an immediate effect and a lasting threatening one. The only issue with Priestess is DH ability to cheat her out on turn 5, which I agree it's too powerful. But if that's unacceptable to you, then I'm wondering what you think of Druids constantly playing their 7 mana turn against your turn 3, while casually dropping down ridiculous shit like Evasive Drakonid summoning Winged Guardian from the deck via Strength in Numbers. Or is that fine since it kills you over 2 turns with almost no possible counterplay instead of 1?
So I'm not going to counter your other arguments card for card because it's pointless. As for Rogue being hated oh I don't know, it may have something to do with the lackey RNG feeling awful when you're on the receiving end of a perfect generated lackey ruining your plans (while the other 7 would have been fine), or maybe because they play 15 cards per turn without somehow ever running out, or maybe the 0-cost cards BS - oh, these last two points remind you of some other class perhaps? Also the cheap dust argument is absolutely valid too, not everyone had access to the returning player freebies, and besides the Mage deck only have Alex Zephrys and Reno... Alex and Zephrys are good for other highlanders sure, too bad those same decks require at other 6 or more legendaries on top of those two to function in their best iteration (please look at any Highlander Mage or Hunter list and tell me anyone could afford it).
There really is no value in "admitting they screwed up." They are making attempts to balance the game further which is all they really need to do.