If you think SacPac needs a nerf you would have to really hate Dragonmaw Poacher: destroy a dragon summon an 8/3 (which is often how its used) > destroy a demon gain 5 life because it 2 for 1's.
My point is no one is crying for DP nerfs so there must be nothing wrong with sacpac. Yes I know it costs 4 mana but it still costs a card and can be used as a 4/4 worst case.
Points were mADE ^. I'm sure if Dragon decks made up the top 2 highest tier decks in the game (DH tempo, Galakrond Warlock - both demon classes) then the same post would be being made about Dragonmaw poacher, the guaranteed 8/8 rush on T4. But because it is Demon decks in the top places it is unfair that one class has access to anti-demon tech? This is how the meta works, decktypes do whatever they can to improve their winrates overall, and if the most prominent other deck is a demon deck then they should be using tech cards that can help that matchup! Also note that Sacrificial Pact is considerably worse if they are playing into a non-demon deck, and it hurts them to run it in the deck if DH wasn't such a high playrate rn.
I agree on nerfs on these 3 cards. And no I am not salty dh player, this interactions are just stupidly broken. Would also nerf priestess of fury and khael'tas +1 mana
Plague of Flames : Yes, this was fine without Galakrond but with these invoke stuff it two efficient like 3 (or 4) mana can destroy a big board. Insane
This card, apart from the Galakrond Warlock, wasn't used at all (maybe except some T3 - T4 meme decks like Quest Warlock), so by "fine" you mean useless, right?
Also, Warlock has 4 invoke cards, the cheapest costs 3 mana, the most expensive 5. Each of them spawns 2 imps, and 3 of them gives you additional minion, so you might have 2 or 3 minions in total for 3 to 5 mana. PoF itself costs 1 mana. So can you please explain how "3 (or 4) mana can destroy a big board"?
Plague of Flames : Yes, this was fine without Galakrond but with these invoke stuff it two efficient like 3 (or 4) mana can destroy a big board. Insane
This card, apart from the Galakrond Warlock, wasn't used at all (maybe except some T3 - T4 meme decks like Quest Warlock), so by "fine" you mean useless, right?
Also, Warlock has 4 invoke cards, the cheapest costs 3 mana, the most expensive 5. Each of them spawns 2 imps, and 3 of them gives you additional minion, so you might have 2 or 3 minions in total for 3 to 5 mana. PoF itself costs 1 mana. So can you please explain how "3 (or 4) mana can destroy a big board"?
i mean with hero power, not just about invoke cards
My main point here is it just too cheap so very flexible and easy to setup with Galakrond, i'm pretty sure it still good at 2 mana
Plague of Flames : Yes, this was fine without Galakrond but with these invoke stuff it two efficient like 3 (or 4) mana can destroy a big board. Insane
This card, apart from the Galakrond Warlock, wasn't used at all (maybe except some T3 - T4 meme decks like Quest Warlock), so by "fine" you mean useless, right?
Also, Warlock has 4 invoke cards, the cheapest costs 3 mana, the most expensive 5. Each of them spawns 2 imps, and 3 of them gives you additional minion, so you might have 2 or 3 minions in total for 3 to 5 mana. PoF itself costs 1 mana. So can you please explain how "3 (or 4) mana can destroy a big board"?
i mean with hero power, not just about invoke cards
My main point here is it just too cheap so very flexible and easy to setup with Galakrond, i'm pretty sure it still good at 2 mana
If you also count in hero power, then at best it's 6 mana (3 + 2 + 1) to kill 5 enemy minions. Still significantly worse than Brawl or Mass Hysteria or Lightbomb or Volcano and still nowhere near of "3 (or 4) mana can destroy a big board"...
And if the card is so good, why no other viable Warlock's archetype ever used it?
Priest's reworked cards are a joke compared to DH power level of basic initiate set. Seems like they were designed for different TCGs.
I hope they do something quickly to rework the entire basic & classic sets. Some of those cards looks like a terrible waste of space in our collection.
Altruis sucks then , it is only seeing play because of token druid now. The condition is awkward , in any other match up he is already one of the worse cards.
The other 2 nerfs would make Demon Hunter broken. I am playing the list below and only Warlock with Pact beats it slightly more then 50 percent.
I think broken cards should be nerfed regardless of the winrate of the archeypes they're used in. If the broken card is what holds the deck together, then buff other class cards. And if not, the deck should be fine despite the nerf. By the way, I'm not talking about nerfing to the ground, just balancing in such a way that the card is a bit worse but you would still play it (like the EVIL Miscreant nerf for example).
Regarding OP's thoughts, I mostly agree (and no, I don't play either DH or warlock). However, I'm just going to talk about sac pact right now, which I think is more unhealthy than it is broken.
Proposal: make Sacrificial Pact target only friendly demons or make it way less efficient.
Explanation:
In my opinion, Sacrificial Pact is unfair in it's current state. Because it's from the basic set, it will ALWAYS give warlock an "artificial" advantage towards the demon hunter class, regardless of the meta. I think people don't want to acknowledge it/don't care because DH is strong right now, which is why I think these people don't care for the future of the game. For example, think about the game in two years time, would you still want warlock to have what is essentially a "fuck your class" card?
Someone pointed out Dragonmaw Poacher as comparison, which is a bad comparison imo, for two reasons:
Dragonmaw Poacher targets dragons, which are available to various classes and of which there are plenty of neutrals. Sacrificial Pact targets demons, which are not available to most classes and of which there are few neutrals. That's the same reason why anti-murloc and anti-pirate techs have never been a problem. You could argue that Hemet is problematic because it affects hunter's class identity in the same way that sac pact affects DH's, but its stats are laughable, which is not the case with sac pact.
"because democracy basically means government by the people, of the people, for the people, but the people are retarded. So let us say: government by the retarded, for the retarded, of the retarded." - Osho Rajneesh
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why?
Points were mADE ^. I'm sure if Dragon decks made up the top 2 highest tier decks in the game (DH tempo, Galakrond Warlock - both demon classes) then the same post would be being made about Dragonmaw poacher, the guaranteed 8/8 rush on T4. But because it is Demon decks in the top places it is unfair that one class has access to anti-demon tech? This is how the meta works, decktypes do whatever they can to improve their winrates overall, and if the most prominent other deck is a demon deck then they should be using tech cards that can help that matchup! Also note that Sacrificial Pact is considerably worse if they are playing into a non-demon deck, and it hurts them to run it in the deck if DH wasn't such a high playrate rn.
Diehard druid player ^~^
Check out my theorycrafted Blistering Rot
I agree on nerfs on these 3 cards. And no I am not salty dh player, this interactions are just stupidly broken. Would also nerf priestess of fury and khael'tas +1 mana
Make the eye beam cost 0 mana when discounted by skull of guldan "override the outcast discount"
The hero we didn't know we needed, but this man is preaching the truth
This card, apart from the Galakrond Warlock, wasn't used at all (maybe except some T3 - T4 meme decks like Quest Warlock), so by "fine" you mean useless, right?
Also, Warlock has 4 invoke cards, the cheapest costs 3 mana, the most expensive 5. Each of them spawns 2 imps, and 3 of them gives you additional minion, so you might have 2 or 3 minions in total for 3 to 5 mana. PoF itself costs 1 mana. So can you please explain how "3 (or 4) mana can destroy a big board"?
Only some DH cards need further nerfs, Lock is fine, maybe Warlock invoke cards can get changed not sure how though.
Priestess is a problem.
i mean with hero power, not just about invoke cards
My main point here is it just too cheap so very flexible and easy to setup with Galakrond, i'm pretty sure it still good at 2 mana
If you also count in hero power, then at best it's 6 mana (3 + 2 + 1) to kill 5 enemy minions. Still significantly worse than Brawl or Mass Hysteria or Lightbomb or Volcano and still nowhere near of "3 (or 4) mana can destroy a big board"...
And if the card is so good, why no other viable Warlock's archetype ever used it?
Right!
Priest's reworked cards are a joke compared to DH power level of basic initiate set. Seems like they were designed for different TCGs.
I hope they do something quickly to rework the entire basic & classic sets. Some of those cards looks like a terrible waste of space in our collection.
Altruis sucks then , it is only seeing play because of token druid now. The condition is awkward , in any other match up he is already one of the worse cards.
The other 2 nerfs would make Demon Hunter broken. I am playing the list below and only Warlock with Pact beats it slightly more then 50 percent.
I agree with the pact nerf only because it makes a Jaraxxus meta a real possibility
I think broken cards should be nerfed regardless of the winrate of the archeypes they're used in. If the broken card is what holds the deck together, then buff other class cards. And if not, the deck should be fine despite the nerf. By the way, I'm not talking about nerfing to the ground, just balancing in such a way that the card is a bit worse but you would still play it (like the EVIL Miscreant nerf for example).
Regarding OP's thoughts, I mostly agree (and no, I don't play either DH or warlock). However, I'm just going to talk about sac pact right now, which I think is more unhealthy than it is broken.
Proposal: make Sacrificial Pact target only friendly demons or make it way less efficient.
Explanation:
In my opinion, Sacrificial Pact is unfair in it's current state. Because it's from the basic set, it will ALWAYS give warlock an "artificial" advantage towards the demon hunter class, regardless of the meta. I think people don't want to acknowledge it/don't care because DH is strong right now, which is why I think these people don't care for the future of the game. For example, think about the game in two years time, would you still want warlock to have what is essentially a "fuck your class" card?
Someone pointed out Dragonmaw Poacher as comparison, which is a bad comparison imo, for two reasons:
hahahah op xD
"because democracy basically means government by the people, of the people, for the people, but the people are retarded. So let us say: government by the retarded, for the retarded, of the retarded." - Osho Rajneesh