I'm not gonna say I dislike this card, from a design perspective it makes sense to have a minion like this in the game. The boomsday Project had to have some essence of power come out of it. Out of the set this really is the only card that strikes me with some trouble though. The auto-include aspect of cards is usually where I go to when deciding why I think a card is out of balance, and I think I finally settled on this card being ever so slightly too much. Auto-include in control, auto-include in combo, any deck that utilizes Corpsetaker needs this card, and plenty of off-meta mech decks happily utilize it (though if it had a home at any mana or stat or description this would clearly be the place). I want to know what you all think. Is a 5 mana 3/2 rush, lifesteal, divine shield, taunt, magnetic too much? Is it one keyword too big? Two? Is it too cost effective for what it offers? Let me know what you think and keep these cards in mind when you compare its stats and effects:
I might agree, but he's comparable to Bloodmage Thalnos. Yes, he see's play in a lot of decks due to his versatility, but at the same time, he helps slow the game down in my opinion, and he's neutral, meaning that he doesn't benefit any particular class. Also, if mech decks will work after rotation, he will be the biggest reason why.
How can I put it: Zilliax is a fairly broken card, so that makes it at the top of the tolerable power level. He is not "just a minion, whatever", but I think he will never be too much oppressive. In the end, there are countless ways to remove it after its trade, so it's ok. Moreover, if you are smart, you know it will arrive at some point, so you can prepare yourself in order to minimize the damage (e.g. keep a Backstab as Rogue).
Another example? Tar Creeper is pretty much in the same spot, but no one has ever thought it had to be nerfed.
I might agree, but he's comparable to Bloodmage Thalnos. Yes, he see's play in a lot of decks due to his versatility, but at the same time, he helps slow the game down in my opinion, and he's neutral, meaning that he doesn't benefit any particular class. Also, if mech decks will work after rotation, he will be the biggest reason why.
The part in your opinion I highlighted is spot on and exactly why I am worried. A neutral card that carries an archetype (Think Malygos) is exactly what this community has issues with. Maybe right now it is powerful, but fair like others are saying. However, I feel on release Zilliax turns into something much more threatening, and at that point "tech silence" is no longer a good enough argument.
How can I put it: Zilliax is a fairly broken card, so that makes it at the top of the tolerable power level. He is not "just a minion, whatever", but I think he will never be too much oppressive. In the end, there are countless ways to remove it after its trade, so it's ok. Moreover, if you are smart, you know it will arrive at some point, so you can prepare yourself in order to minimize the damage (e.g. keep a Backstab as Rogue).
Another example? Tar Creeper is pretty much in the same spot, but no one has ever thought it had to be nerfed.
I absolutely agree to most of this. I do think Tar Creeper is a shining example of how much power is tolerable by the community, but Tar Creeper is on its last leg and it is still doing exactly what it did before: being a nuisance to aggro and potentially forcing out removal. The difference I feel is Tar Creeper really isn't going to shut out a game while Zilliax can. Having magnetic and being able to heal as ANY class for upwards of 8+ and remove a large threat is dangerously strong. You can play around it dropping, but it is inevitable that it will drop if the opponent is making it obvious that its coming (eggs in Paladin for instance). Personally I think taking the keyword "magnetic" away from Zilliax balances the card perfectly. Magnetic minions can still attach to it to increase its power, but it doesn't automatically get to jump on 8/8s to auto win the game.
How can I put it: Zilliax is a fairly broken card, so that makes it at the top of the tolerable power level. He is not "just a minion, whatever", but I think he will never be too much oppressive. In the end, there are countless ways to remove it after its trade, so it's ok. Moreover, if you are smart, you know it will arrive at some point, so you can prepare yourself in order to minimize the damage (e.g. keep a Backstab as Rogue).
Another example? Tar Creeper is pretty much in the same spot, but no one has ever thought it had to be nerfed.
I absolutely agree to most of this. I do think Tar Creeper is a shining example of how much power is tolerable by the community, but Tar Creeper is on its last leg and it is still doing exactly what it did before: being a nuisance to aggro and potentially forcing out removal. The difference I feel is Tar Creeper really isn't going to shut out a game while Zilliax can. Having magnetic and being able to heal as ANY class for upwards of 8+ and remove a large threat is dangerously strong. You can play around it dropping, but it is inevitable that it will drop if the opponent is making it obvious that its coming (eggs in Paladin for instance). Personally I think taking the keyword "magnetic" away from Zilliax balances the card perfectly. Magnetic minions can still attach to it to increase its power, but it doesn't automatically get to jump on 8/8s to auto win the game.
I see your point, but we also have to consider that Zilliax is a Legendary minion and not just a common card, so it's ok if it's a bit "above the average". Moreover, its Magnetic keyword can be countered just by using a Silence effect or a hard removal like Hex, Polymorph or Sap. I'm not saying it isn't OP in Egg Paladin (cause it is), but in the end that's what it was printed for: the frost on a HUGE cake.
If it happens to be to much oppressive, I'm sure the developers will consider a nerf, but I highly doubt it will happen: yeah, some times I get annoyed when it is played, but very few times I thought "oh Jeez I'm totally screwed", so that's fine by me.
Final reason, although it's a funny one: that's the only good card in Boomsday, please spare him :(
Love the straw grasping threads just before every expansion.
I learned to never leave him on board due to magnetism. This card is A1sooperCool. Sadly, I get pissed at it at times.
I can understand the leave on board thing is a thought, but to most people he doesn't survive past the next turn in the majority of situations. Now the roughly 25% or less is my problem- attaching to large mech minions and immediately losing the game for the other player in the majority of those situations is problematic. Pair that with the fact that it is still a good disruption vanilla leaves the thought that maybe it at least is a discussion.
Zilliax is probably the best card that uses the otherwise under-used keyword magnetic. He it needs to be a strong choice or that whole keyword is for naught outside of Wild where you have fewer robut cards to work with. Leave him it alone.
I do think cards that fit into almost any deck are problematic, as it's just "Okay, you run this in every deck, all the time." Auto-include cards are exactly why Rag and Sylvanas got HOFed. Even if Zilliax is nowhere near that level.
And you don't put Zilliax into EVERY single deck right now, but as per usual, with all the scumbag stuff rotating out of standard, really strong cards like Zilliax now look even -stronger-.
I'm not saying we should nerf him, but I AM saying he should probably be monitored closely post-rotation.
I should've better thought about the title, I'm not necessarily calling for its nerf. Like others are saying, I think its going to need to be watched during the next rotation. It already accomplishes a ton so that means it can only accomplish more. Also, its up to the designers to say if they want magnetic to survive. Clearly they didn't care that much about the keyword if only one good minion currently utilizes it.
Zilliax
I'm not gonna say I dislike this card, from a design perspective it makes sense to have a minion like this in the game. The boomsday Project had to have some essence of power come out of it. Out of the set this really is the only card that strikes me with some trouble though. The auto-include aspect of cards is usually where I go to when deciding why I think a card is out of balance, and I think I finally settled on this card being ever so slightly too much. Auto-include in control, auto-include in combo, any deck that utilizes Corpsetaker needs this card, and plenty of off-meta mech decks happily utilize it (though if it had a home at any mana or stat or description this would clearly be the place). I want to know what you all think. Is a 5 mana 3/2 rush, lifesteal, divine shield, taunt, magnetic too much? Is it one keyword too big? Two? Is it too cost effective for what it offers? Let me know what you think and keep these cards in mind when you compare its stats and effects:
Earthen Ring Farseer Pumpkin Peasant Rotten Applebaum
It is legendary, only one copy, if was epic like Creeper will be more problematic.
Cost the right mana, less will be OP and more will be crap.
Don't break the game like hunter DK singlehanded destroy control decks.
Many classes don't have a good 5 manas play, this is one of the reasons this card have be used a lot.
For me is ok card, neutral good healing is needed or aggro reign supreme.
It's designed well imo. Does exactly what it's supposed to, make all control players craft another legendary ;)
How can I put it: Zilliax is a fairly broken card, so that makes it at the top of the tolerable power level. He is not "just a minion, whatever", but I think he will never be too much oppressive. In the end, there are countless ways to remove it after its trade, so it's ok. Moreover, if you are smart, you know it will arrive at some point, so you can prepare yourself in order to minimize the damage (e.g. keep a Backstab as Rogue).
Another example? Tar Creeper is pretty much in the same spot, but no one has ever thought it had to be nerfed.
The part in your opinion I highlighted is spot on and exactly why I am worried. A neutral card that carries an archetype (Think Malygos) is exactly what this community has issues with. Maybe right now it is powerful, but fair like others are saying. However, I feel on release Zilliax turns into something much more threatening, and at that point "tech silence" is no longer a good enough argument.
Love the straw grasping threads just before every expansion.
I learned to never leave him on board due to magnetism. This card is A1sooperCool. Sadly, I get pissed at it at times.
I enjoy.
I absolutely agree to most of this. I do think Tar Creeper is a shining example of how much power is tolerable by the community, but Tar Creeper is on its last leg and it is still doing exactly what it did before: being a nuisance to aggro and potentially forcing out removal. The difference I feel is Tar Creeper really isn't going to shut out a game while Zilliax can. Having magnetic and being able to heal as ANY class for upwards of 8+ and remove a large threat is dangerously strong. You can play around it dropping, but it is inevitable that it will drop if the opponent is making it obvious that its coming (eggs in Paladin for instance). Personally I think taking the keyword "magnetic" away from Zilliax balances the card perfectly. Magnetic minions can still attach to it to increase its power, but it doesn't automatically get to jump on 8/8s to auto win the game.
I see your point, but we also have to consider that Zilliax is a Legendary minion and not just a common card, so it's ok if it's a bit "above the average". Moreover, its Magnetic keyword can be countered just by using a Silence effect or a hard removal like Hex, Polymorph or Sap. I'm not saying it isn't OP in Egg Paladin (cause it is), but in the end that's what it was printed for: the frost on a HUGE cake.
If it happens to be to much oppressive, I'm sure the developers will consider a nerf, but I highly doubt it will happen: yeah, some times I get annoyed when it is played, but very few times I thought "oh Jeez I'm totally screwed", so that's fine by me.
Final reason, although it's a funny one: that's the only good card in Boomsday, please spare him :(
Stop calling for nerfs already!
“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
I can understand the leave on board thing is a thought, but to most people he doesn't survive past the next turn in the majority of situations. Now the roughly 25% or less is my problem- attaching to large mech minions and immediately losing the game for the other player in the majority of those situations is problematic. Pair that with the fact that it is still a good disruption vanilla leaves the thought that maybe it at least is a discussion.
Zilliax is probably the best card that uses the otherwise under-used keyword magnetic.
Heit needs to be a strong choice or that whole keyword is for naught outside of Wild where you have fewer robut cards to work with. Leavehimit alone.I do think cards that fit into almost any deck are problematic, as it's just "Okay, you run this in every deck, all the time." Auto-include cards are exactly why Rag and Sylvanas got HOFed. Even if Zilliax is nowhere near that level.
And you don't put Zilliax into EVERY single deck right now, but as per usual, with all the scumbag stuff rotating out of standard, really strong cards like Zilliax now look even -stronger-.
I'm not saying we should nerf him, but I AM saying he should probably be monitored closely post-rotation.
I should've better thought about the title, I'm not necessarily calling for its nerf. Like others are saying, I think its going to need to be watched during the next rotation. It already accomplishes a ton so that means it can only accomplish more. Also, its up to the designers to say if they want magnetic to survive. Clearly they didn't care that much about the keyword if only one good minion currently utilizes it.
Its in a set that rotates. Its not like Azure Drake.
It's good card for me. Yes, it fits many decks, but isn't that the thing about neutral cards. And it's deffinitely not OP. No need for nerf there.
Zilliax is fine.
Zilliax is fine. If it was a class card it would be a different matter but as a neutral and able to be utilised by all classes I think it is perfect.
Zilliax is fine - we should rather talk about the real problems in the game such as overpowered OTK decks.
Zilliax is completely fine. Good design.