I think most people can agree that Hench-Clan Thug is an amazing card for rogue. The way I see it, it's almost always a guarenteed 3 mana 4/4 on the turn it is played (hero powering on two is actually a good play for rogue). Then, if it can't be removed, the turn it can actually attack, it is often a 5/5. That means it's basically a King Mukla without the drawback that threatens to continue growing. The comparison is a bit of a stretch, but I hope you see the idea.
Am I overreacting when I saw this card is basically flappy bird jr.? It demands early removal if played on turn three, otherwise it just demands disporprortionate resources or trading to kill it. Take, for instance, any slower warlock deck. Defile won't work. Hellfire only does three damage. The spellstone is rarely upgraded by turn 4 and if it is, you spent a whole turn using a valuable upgraded spelltone to remove a three drop. And the tempo nature of rogue means that it can protect it very well in the early game through such means like Backstab and SI:7 Agent.
I like the card. I'm not calling for it to be nerfed. I'm just wondering if I'm alone with this feeling, since this card hasn't actually garnered much of a discussion.
ITs not Flappy Jr. because it has a very slow rate of Growth. Flappy Bird can can up to 6 stats a turn (has windfury, +3 to each), can become untargetable, gain stealth.... It wins the game on it's own. 99% of the time, Hench clan gains +1+1 a turn. If flappy gets three free turns of attacks and gets early windfury, the thing will be an untargetable 6-9 windfury that can only get worse. If Hench clan is left on board for three turns, it becomes a 6-6.
It's a strong card, maybe on average better than flappy since flappy is a card very reliant on high rolling those adapts, But its not flappy jr. It doesn't have anywhere near the high roll potention that Flappy does.
ITs not Flappy Jr. because it has a very slow rate of Growth. Flappy Bird can can up to 6 stats a turn (has windfury, +3 to each), can become untargetable, gain stealth.... It wins the game on it's own. 99% of the time, Hench clan gains +1+1 a turn. If flappy gets three free turns of attacks and gets early windfury, the thing will be an untargetable 6-9 windfury that can only get worse. If Hench clan is left on board for three turns, it becomes a 6-6.
It's a strong card, maybe on average better than flappy since flappy is a card very reliant on high rolling those adapts, But its not flappy jr. It doesn't have anywhere near the high roll potention that Flappy does.
I think is much better because is more hard to deal with a 4/4 in turn 3 than a 3/3, Flappy is only better when opponent don't have a removal or a taunt, the taunt don't work vs Hench, for example, 4 manas 3/6 taunt druid can't stop Hench because when attacks he is 5/5, the Flappy need one extra removal/silence to deal with taunts, opponent usually trade with this minions, again, 4/4 is far better than 3/3 in this situation.
In rogue if I have to choose between Flappy or Hench always will be Hench.
Honestly, kinda glad you can’t deal with it as Warlock. You shouldn’t be able to efficiently deal with everything. Don’t like it and face it enough play a class that can deal with it. Simple, Thank me later.
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No where near the potential power-level of flappy bird. While it can run away with a game if you let it, it's not gamebreakingly powerful.
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Honestly, kinda glad you can’t deal with it as Warlock. You shouldn’t be able to efficiently deal with everything. Don’t like it and face it enough play a class that can deal with it. Simple, Thank me later.
Honestly, kinda glad you can’t deal with it as Warlock. You shouldn’t be able to efficiently deal with everything. Don’t like it and face it enough play a class that can deal with it. Simple, Thank me later.
Honestly, kinda glad you can’t deal with it as Warlock. You shouldn’t be able to efficiently deal with everything. Don’t like it and face it enough play a class that can deal with it. Simple, Thank me later.
It doesn't mean they can't. If I remember correctly, at one time some Raza Priest decks (I think) were teching in Holy Fire to deal with Cobalt Scalebane. I realize it's a bit different since the Scalebanes were more prominent in multiple classes than Henchclan Thug is and that it likely had a little more room for card choices as a singleton deck, but I would think that Shadow Bolt would hurt less to include than Holy Fire for removal since it would be useful against just about any early minion.
I agree with everyone, but I think you're taking my words too literally. I said flappy bird Jr. Of course flappy bird is more highrolly and grows faster, hence Jr. Also, if people are so adamant flappy bird is better, why does miracle rogue run hench-clan thug instead. It has its up sides in consistency.
Also, my example of warlock was just an example. I didn't want to stay a discussion on how warlock can deal with it. Shaman, for instance, needs a hex on turn 4. Lightning bolt doesn't cut it. Volcano is overkill. Lightning storm needs a spell totem and high roll. Who runs double zap. My point is that it's probably one of the hardest 3 drops to deal with. Flappy bird can't trade very well as a 3/3 and needs to go face. Unlike flappy bird, Hench-Clan thug not a 3/3 but usually a 4/4 the turn it has to be dealt with, and can actually make a favourable trade and still threaten to grow. The resources to deal with it exist, but it never feels good having to use it on a three drop. Silence works pretty well though, I should add.
Hench-Clan Thug pretty much carries tempo Rogue at the moment. It is much better than flappy because it is much more likely to stick, which is more important than the highroll potential. Going first, it beats out SI:7 Agent too.
@Kwakdizzle, I rather like your analogy on how it often needs inefficient removal. The Shaman class historically has struggled to remove anything with more than 4HP. Alongside your other examples he's definitely a soft taunt. I kind a see this as a paradigm for turning the corner in a classic aggro vs control setting. I've certainly been steamrolled by one that I couldn't check. A silence is often a secondary albeit less effective option.
I have toyed with the idea of sticking him in a weapon heavy warrior deck but haven't yet built one. He'd have some interesting synergy with Master Oakheart for some swing-turn fun and could also enable quite a few Warrior Minions.
@Kwakdizzle, I rather like your analogy on how it often needs inefficient removal. The Shaman class historically has struggled to remove anything with more than 4HP. Alongside your other examples he's definitely a soft taunt. I kind a see this as a paradigm for turning the corner in a classic aggro vs control setting. I've certainly been steamrolled by one that I couldn't check. A silence is often a secondary albeit less effective option.
I have toyed with the idea of sticking him in a weapon heavy warrior deck but haven't yet built one. He'd have some interesting synergy with Master Oakheart for some swing-turn fun and could also enable quite a few Warrior Minions.
But on a serious note, that sounds pretty interesting. The spellstone is easily 7 mana 15/15 worth of stats, and the rush package should theoretically provide good early game tempo. Woodcutter's Axe has so much potential, I think. I'm going to try creating such a deck as well.
I have 10+ copies (including a golden) with the expectation that this may one day receive a nerf. If it makes it to Wild then and only then will I dust the extras. I think it's more powerful than flappy bird, but really only in rogue does it feel a bit "broken".
Lol warlock can't deal with it... Warlock can easily deal with it, never was a problem for me. Doomsayer or Acidic Swamp Ooze before turn 3, Spellstone, Spellbreaker and its not like you don't play big minions with warlock that demand an answer... cough cough 3 mana 8/8. Hench Clan Thug is perfectly balanced for a neutral card, it is really good in rogue, but nowhere nerf deserving.
Honestly, kinda glad you can’t deal with it as Warlock. You shouldn’t be able to efficiently deal with everything. Don’t like it and face it enough play a class that can deal with it. Simple, Thank me later.
Its usually going to die the turn its played though, right? 3 mana 4/4s don't last long in the constructed meta. I think its a great card, but not OP at all. Its easy to stabilize against Odd Rogue anyway, and normal Tempo Rogue is pretty much dead.
Lol warlock can't deal with it... Warlock can easily deal with it, never was a problem for me. Doomsayer or Acidic Swamp Ooze before turn 3, Spellstone, Spellbreaker and its not like you don't play big minions with warlock that demand an answer... cough cough 3 mana 8/8.
Yes, what you said works, but a 3 mana 8/8 only applies for even warlock. Tapping the first three turns to get out one giant minion can be problematic if they simply sap it or put up a taunt or something, because their damage threatens you more than your giant threatens them at that point, and I doubt they'll be the one trading. Spellstone requires having upgraded it in the first few turns and having the spellstone in hand. Doomsayer and acidic swamp ooze are great tech, as is spellbreaker, you're right.
I have a feeling that you play even warlock. I believe you when you say it's not a problem for you, but I'm playing meat wagon warlock with Glinda in casual, and I don't run them, but now that you mention it, I'll definitely add a doomsayer or two. (There's a reason a reason meat wagon warlock doesn't run doomsayer. Meatwagon can pull out a doomsayer, which is not the combo I'm looking for...) I find that when they curve out a Hench-clan thug, my winrate against them goes down substantially, whereas otherwise, I'm usually fine.
But like I mentioned before, my point in the post was not to go into a discussion about warlock's answers, or shaman's answers, or whatever. My general point is that Hench-clan thug is one of the most difficult 3 drops to get rid of, since it not only demands immediate removal as a 4/4, but threatens to grow and is usually a 5/5 by the first turn it can even trade or go face. Especially in a tempo-driven class that can protect it and really take control of the board in the early game.
I think most people can agree that Hench-Clan Thug is an amazing card for rogue. The way I see it, it's almost always a guarenteed 3 mana 4/4 on the turn it is played (hero powering on two is actually a good play for rogue). Then, if it can't be removed, the turn it can actually attack, it is often a 5/5. That means it's basically a King Mukla without the drawback that threatens to continue growing. The comparison is a bit of a stretch, but I hope you see the idea.
Am I overreacting when I saw this card is basically flappy bird jr.? It demands early removal if played on turn three, otherwise it just demands disporprortionate resources or trading to kill it. Take, for instance, any slower warlock deck. Defile won't work. Hellfire only does three damage. The spellstone is rarely upgraded by turn 4 and if it is, you spent a whole turn using a valuable upgraded spelltone to remove a three drop. And the tempo nature of rogue means that it can protect it very well in the early game through such means like Backstab and SI:7 Agent.
I like the card. I'm not calling for it to be nerfed. I'm just wondering if I'm alone with this feeling, since this card hasn't actually garnered much of a discussion.
If was a rogue class card no one will tell the diference...
And is way better than the dragon 5/4, sometimes the 2/1 poison token is covered from some taunt making the dragon useless.
ITs not Flappy Jr. because it has a very slow rate of Growth. Flappy Bird can can up to 6 stats a turn (has windfury, +3 to each), can become untargetable, gain stealth.... It wins the game on it's own. 99% of the time, Hench clan gains +1+1 a turn. If flappy gets three free turns of attacks and gets early windfury, the thing will be an untargetable 6-9 windfury that can only get worse. If Hench clan is left on board for three turns, it becomes a 6-6.
It's a strong card, maybe on average better than flappy since flappy is a card very reliant on high rolling those adapts, But its not flappy jr. It doesn't have anywhere near the high roll potention that Flappy does.
Why does Vicious Fledgling exist
I think is much better because is more hard to deal with a 4/4 in turn 3 than a 3/3, Flappy is only better when opponent don't have a removal or a taunt, the taunt don't work vs Hench, for example, 4 manas 3/6 taunt druid can't stop Hench because when attacks he is 5/5, the Flappy need one extra removal/silence to deal with taunts, opponent usually trade with this minions, again, 4/4 is far better than 3/3 in this situation.
In rogue if I have to choose between Flappy or Hench always will be Hench.
Honestly, kinda glad you can’t deal with it as Warlock. You shouldn’t be able to efficiently deal with everything. Don’t like it and face it enough play a class that can deal with it. Simple, Thank me later.
-Those who do not understand true pain, can never understand true peace.-
No where near the potential power-level of flappy bird. While it can run away with a game if you let it, it's not gamebreakingly powerful.
There's always Shadow Bolt.
No one uses Shadow Bolt
It doesn't mean they can't. If I remember correctly, at one time some Raza Priest decks (I think) were teching in Holy Fire to deal with Cobalt Scalebane. I realize it's a bit different since the Scalebanes were more prominent in multiple classes than Henchclan Thug is and that it likely had a little more room for card choices as a singleton deck, but I would think that Shadow Bolt would hurt less to include than Holy Fire for removal since it would be useful against just about any early minion.
I agree with everyone, but I think you're taking my words too literally. I said flappy bird Jr. Of course flappy bird is more highrolly and grows faster, hence Jr. Also, if people are so adamant flappy bird is better, why does miracle rogue run hench-clan thug instead. It has its up sides in consistency.
Also, my example of warlock was just an example. I didn't want to stay a discussion on how warlock can deal with it. Shaman, for instance, needs a hex on turn 4. Lightning bolt doesn't cut it. Volcano is overkill. Lightning storm needs a spell totem and high roll. Who runs double zap. My point is that it's probably one of the hardest 3 drops to deal with. Flappy bird can't trade very well as a 3/3 and needs to go face. Unlike flappy bird, Hench-Clan thug not a 3/3 but usually a 4/4 the turn it has to be dealt with, and can actually make a favourable trade and still threaten to grow. The resources to deal with it exist, but it never feels good having to use it on a three drop. Silence works pretty well though, I should add.
Hench-Clan Thug pretty much carries tempo Rogue at the moment. It is much better than flappy because it is much more likely to stick, which is more important than the highroll potential. Going first, it beats out SI:7 Agent too.
I did not realize it was neutral LOL...
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@Kwakdizzle, I rather like your analogy on how it often needs inefficient removal. The Shaman class historically has struggled to remove anything with more than 4HP. Alongside your other examples he's definitely a soft taunt. I kind a see this as a paradigm for turning the corner in a classic aggro vs control setting. I've certainly been steamrolled by one that I couldn't check. A silence is often a secondary albeit less effective option.
I have toyed with the idea of sticking him in a weapon heavy warrior deck but haven't yet built one. He'd have some interesting synergy with Master Oakheart for some swing-turn fun and could also enable quite a few Warrior Minions.
Golden Hero Collections thus far; -
Europe: Druid, Hunter, Paladin, Mage, Priest, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock, Warrior (9/9)
Americas: Druid, Mage, Paladin Shaman (4/9)
Everywhere else: Workin on it.. (0/9)
Fool's Bane. EZ 3 mana 7/7 xD
But on a serious note, that sounds pretty interesting. The spellstone is easily 7 mana 15/15 worth of stats, and the rush package should theoretically provide good early game tempo. Woodcutter's Axe has so much potential, I think. I'm going to try creating such a deck as well.
I have 10+ copies (including a golden) with the expectation that this may one day receive a nerf. If it makes it to Wild then and only then will I dust the extras. I think it's more powerful than flappy bird, but really only in rogue does it feel a bit "broken".
Lol warlock can't deal with it... Warlock can easily deal with it, never was a problem for me. Doomsayer or Acidic Swamp Ooze before turn 3, Spellstone, Spellbreaker and its not like you don't play big minions with warlock that demand an answer... cough cough 3 mana 8/8. Hench Clan Thug is perfectly balanced for a neutral card, it is really good in rogue, but nowhere nerf deserving.
There are some Control lock decks running Shadowbolt. I also see it in quest lock which is rare to see but I do on occasion.
Hello!
Its usually going to die the turn its played though, right? 3 mana 4/4s don't last long in the constructed meta. I think its a great card, but not OP at all. Its easy to stabilize against Odd Rogue anyway, and normal Tempo Rogue is pretty much dead.
Unpopular opinion: Rogue is OP
Yes, what you said works, but a 3 mana 8/8 only applies for even warlock. Tapping the first three turns to get out one giant minion can be problematic if they simply sap it or put up a taunt or something, because their damage threatens you more than your giant threatens them at that point, and I doubt they'll be the one trading. Spellstone requires having upgraded it in the first few turns and having the spellstone in hand. Doomsayer and acidic swamp ooze are great tech, as is spellbreaker, you're right.
I have a feeling that you play even warlock. I believe you when you say it's not a problem for you, but I'm playing meat wagon warlock with Glinda in casual, and I don't run them, but now that you mention it,
I'll definitely add a doomsayer or two.(There's a reason a reason meat wagon warlock doesn't run doomsayer. Meatwagon can pull out a doomsayer, which is not the combo I'm looking for...) I find that when they curve out a Hench-clan thug, my winrate against them goes down substantially, whereas otherwise, I'm usually fine.But like I mentioned before, my point in the post was not to go into a discussion about warlock's answers, or shaman's answers, or whatever. My general point is that Hench-clan thug is one of the most difficult 3 drops to get rid of, since it not only demands immediate removal as a 4/4, but threatens to grow and is usually a 5/5 by the first turn it can even trade or go face. Especially in a tempo-driven class that can protect it and really take control of the board in the early game.
This card is a bit broken, basically if you have no answer when it played its game over