Hey guys This is DISCUSSIOn thread about problematic cards in Hearthstone - Do not flame, just tell ur opinion. So, let's start...
My #1 opinion - Patches the Pirate - Free 1/1 is really OP - It is summoned from your deck --> No need to mulligan for it --> Better draws, +1 card in hand - PIRATE tribe, it is 2/2 with Charge when u get it from Southsea Captain - It forces almost every aggro deck to play pirates
#2 opinion - Bonemare - Auto-include to almost every deck - 5/5 + 4/4 charge --> Too good for 7 mana, isn't it?
#3 opinion - Corridor Creeper - Auto-include to every aggro deck - In aggro vs. aggro wins matches when played
I really disagree with Vilespine Slayer . It often happens that you need to play something and you can't trigger this card effect, it is a 5 mana 3/4 that didn't do anything. Rogue needs that card, besides, it is not like rogue has been top tier deck since Ungoro. The real problem of the game is Jade Idol
There are cards in Magic that have been problematic before -- it's not perfect -- but the consistent high power of Magic is what makes it interesting to me. There is so many things you can do, and each strong card isn't as straight-forward as it looks.
I wish Hearthstone had more unique and strong cards like the four you mentioned. And while everyone else says to move Ice Block to Hall of Fame (which it probably will), I would rather see Blizzard release a better secret counter (one that is good against non-secrets) or a strong neutral card that can do what Ice Block does but it works less efficiently for Mages (hell, it could even have unique deck-building tech of running no secrets? I'll keep dreaming... :P )
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The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.
I think that Frost Lich Jaina and Kingsbane are both ridiculously OP. Both feature Lifesteal equivalent to damage on-demand. Reducing the 3/6 summoned with each hero power to 2/5 would make Jaina a bit less of a guaranteed win. Limiting the enhancements retained on Kingsbane to only one (the most recent) might be good there.
There are so many variations of "problematic" and cards that fit into those slots, it's hard to even begin.
Corridor Creeper, Bonemare and Scalebane are neutrals that generally outclass all other tempo cards at their mana costs. They are problematic for limiting deckbuilding and making ladder very homogeneous. Powerful cards like that are OK as class cards, but not as neutrals. Neutrals are what you should go to when you lack a suitable class card, they shouldn't be your first choice (other than for tech).
Patches is a step worse as it also limits design space for Pirates heavily. It's almost impossible to think of a world where a Pirate deck won't be running Patches, regardless of how strong other cards get.
Then there are cards that doesn't exist, and therefore create a problem. For example there's no reliable way to break OTK combos, other than Warlock's Treachery shenanigans. This has caused the entire control archetype to almost disappear completely, because they can't beat an OTK regardless of how powerful their control game is. In my opinion Hearthstone needs targeted discard in the neutral slot to solve this problem.
High-roll cards like Barnes create frustrating gameplay by making players feel like they lost due to purely bad luck, and that they couldn't have done anything about it even with a perfect draw of their own. This is of course dependent on which minions Barnes can pull, and what can be done afterwards (like resurrecting them with full stats). The same is the case with Keleseth. In general I don't think low-cost legendaries should be this impactful, unless good answers to their effects are easily accessible. For example, most control decks can handle even a super strong N'Zoth, given that they have time to prepare and find AoE, but what deck can properly answer a turn 3 Barnes into Y'Shaarj into Y'Shaarj, followed by a resurrect in Big Priest?
Cards that randomly or semi-randomly generate cards are problematic in Arena, where they increase the luck factor by giving players more common access to super powerful cards that normally appear infrequently in the draft, while also diminishing the value of good hand-tracking and intuition.
Corridor Creeper is the only card I honestly think needs to go. Not because I think it's ridiculously broken or anything.
It's just a 2 of in basically every deck because minions dying is part of the game. Aggro, tempo, control, combo. It reminds me a bit of Azure Drake but much worse. I don't think such a ubiquitously played card is great for the game.
Jade Idol is the only problematic card in the game. It basically deleted the control archetype. It is sad to think that it will never get nerfed now that it'll rotate to wild.
Then there are cards that doesn't exist, and therefore create a problem. For example there's no reliable way to break OTK combos, other than Warlock's Treachery shenanigans. This has caused the entire control archetype to almost disappear completely, because they can't beat an OTK regardless of how powerful their control game is. In my opinion Hearthstone needs targeted discard in the neutral slot to solve this problem.
I agree with the majority of your post except for the quoted part... Unless our definitions of "targeted discard" differ (Mine would be a card like Confiscation from Yugioh) I don't think a card like that would be healthy for the game.... You put this card in your Deck and when you play against Exodia Mage you call Tony and it's game over,you win just cause you played a Tech card I wouldn't find that fair.... Not to mention it could be abusable even against non combo Decks.... Discard the opponent's DK and they're probably done for.... What I'm trying to say is that too many Decks right now have specific card(s) as winconditons and if you get rid of them you basically just win the game on spot.... You win the game cause you played one card not cause you outplayed your opponent,I'm sorry but I fail to see how that would make the game better....
Then there are cards that doesn't exist, and therefore create a problem. For example there's no reliable way to break OTK combos, other than Warlock's Treachery shenanigans. This has caused the entire control archetype to almost disappear completely, because they can't beat an OTK regardless of how powerful their control game is. In my opinion Hearthstone needs targeted discard in the neutral slot to solve this problem.
I agree with the majority of your post except for the quoted part... Unless our definitions of "targeted discard" differ (Mine would be a card like Confiscation from Yugioh) I don't think a card like that would be healthy for the game.... You put this card in your Deck and when you play against Exodia Mage you call Tony and it's game over,you win just cause you played a Tech card I wouldn't find that fair.... Not to mention it could be abusable even against non combo Decks.... Discard the opponent's DK and they're probably done for.... What I'm trying to say is that too many Decks right now have specific card(s) as winconditons and if you get rid of them you basically just win the game on spot.... You win the game cause you played one card not cause you outplayed your opponent,I'm sorry but I fail to see how that would make the game better....
because then he wouldn't die to Quest Mage, duh! :p
I think that Frost Lich Jaina and Kingsbane are both ridiculously OP. Both feature Lifesteal equivalent to damage on-demand. Reducing the 3/6 summoned with each hero power to 2/5 would make Jaina a bit less of a guaranteed win. Limiting the enhancements retained on Kingsbane to only one (the most recent) might be good there.
Patches will rotate next expansion, no need to nerf anything there.
Bonemare is good, but not OP in my opinion. It does have reasonable counterplay (just don't elave anything up turn 6) and it's actually a very important tool for midrange decks to get taunt in the later stages, which keep full aggro in check.
Corridor Creeper I agree is busted and should be nerfed as soon as possible. It ahs no counterplay, no required synergies and no real downsides. I'd like it if they just changed th effect to Friendly minions only in order to either make it a card for token/swarm decks (like Shaman or Zoolock), or to enemy minions only to make it a card for defensive decks that can use it as tempo after clearing the board. Right now it's just a boring must-have that doesn't require any deckbuilding.
Nerfing Vilepsine would be a terrible idea right before the rotation. Tempo Rogue already loses a bunch of tools (PIrate package is very important) and nerfing this card would inevitably just harm any slower Rogue decks as well, which would just seem unfair to the class
There are cards in Magic that have been problematic before -- it's not perfect -- but the consistent high power of Magic is what makes it interesting to me. There is so many things you can do, and each strong card isn't as straight-forward as it looks.
I wish Hearthstone had more unique and strong cards like the four you mentioned. And while everyone else says to move Ice Block to Hall of Fame (which it probably will), I would rather see Blizzard release a better secret counter (one that is good against non-secrets) or a strong neutral card that can do what Ice Block does but it works less efficiently for Mages (hell, it could even have unique deck-building tech of running no secrets? I'll keep dreaming... :P )
Patches will rotate next expansion, no need to nerf anything there.
Bonemare is good, but not OP in my opinion. It does have reasonable counterplay (just don't elave anything up turn 6) and it's actually a very important tool for midrange decks to get taunt in the later stages, which keep full aggro in check.
Corridor Creeper I agree is busted and should be nerfed as soon as possible. It ahs no counterplay, no required synergies and no real downsides. I'd like it if they just changed th effect to Friendly minions only in order to either make it a card for token/swarm decks (like Shaman or Zoolock), or to enemy minions only to make it a card for defensive decks that can use it as tempo after clearing the board. Right now it's just a boring must-have that doesn't require any deckbuilding.
Nerfing Vilepsine would be a terrible idea right before the rotation. Tempo Rogue already loses a bunch of tools (PIrate package is very important) and nerfing this card would inevitably just harm any slower Rogue decks as well, which would just seem unfair to the class
well Corridor Creeper is good in Evolve Shaman but I don't know if that deck is still meta. I mean, for Bonemare, I guess either making it give a minion 3-3 and taunt or make bonemare a 8 mana would be good changes.
I don't know if this is a 'fixable' issue. Just as there will always be a lich king, there will always be an OP card. Get rid of the mentioned cards and the meta would divert to the next most op card.
Then that card is overplayed and hearthstone is stale all over again...
best suggestion is to either accept it or nerf current all-class cards and make class-specific cards stronger
Seriously, playing Highlander Priest, the only card that I can't get around is Frost Lich Jaina
The Lifesteal part is really OP and kills all momentum you had or can hope to obtain moving forward.
Think about it from the other perspective though.
You're about to lose to a highlander priest, which is pretty boring to play against anyway, and you manage to make a comeback and win the game. It feels great.
The unfortunate thing with Hearthstone is that 90% of the time when you lose it isn't a fun game but for the other player it is. (though some decks aren't fun to win with either)
Hey guys
This is DISCUSSIOn thread about problematic cards in Hearthstone - Do not flame, just tell ur opinion.
So, let's start...
My #1 opinion - Patches the Pirate
- Free 1/1 is really OP
- It is summoned from your deck --> No need to mulligan for it --> Better draws, +1 card in hand
- PIRATE tribe, it is 2/2 with Charge when u get it from Southsea Captain
- It forces almost every aggro deck to play pirates
#2 opinion - Bonemare
- Auto-include to almost every deck
- 5/5 + 4/4 charge --> Too good for 7 mana, isn't it?
#3 opinion - Corridor Creeper
- Auto-include to every aggro deck
- In aggro vs. aggro wins matches when played
#4 Vilespine Slayer
- Pretty unfair against other classes -Execute, Siphon Soul, Shadow Word: Death
- You do not lose tempo when u play this - 3/4 body is pretty good
- Combo is pretty easy to trigger
Vilespine is completely fine. Not a problem at all.
I really disagree with Vilespine Slayer . It often happens that you need to play something and you can't trigger this card effect, it is a 5 mana 3/4 that didn't do anything. Rogue needs that card, besides, it is not like rogue has been top tier deck since Ungoro. The real problem of the game is Jade Idol
I don't believe these cards are problematic. I don't believe any cards are problematic. Are they better than most? Yes. But not a problem.
I come from a Magic: The Gathering background, and I'm sure that's why I enjoy having lots of high powered cards, like Patches the Pirate (Goblin Guide) and Corridor Creeper (Gurmag Angler).
There are cards in Magic that have been problematic before -- it's not perfect -- but the consistent high power of Magic is what makes it interesting to me. There is so many things you can do, and each strong card isn't as straight-forward as it looks.
I wish Hearthstone had more unique and strong cards like the four you mentioned. And while everyone else says to move Ice Block to Hall of Fame (which it probably will), I would rather see Blizzard release a better secret counter (one that is good against non-secrets) or a strong neutral card that can do what Ice Block does but it works less efficiently for Mages (hell, it could even have unique deck-building tech of running no secrets? I'll keep dreaming... :P )
The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.
I think that Frost Lich Jaina and Kingsbane are both ridiculously OP. Both feature Lifesteal equivalent to damage on-demand. Reducing the 3/6 summoned with each hero power to 2/5 would make Jaina a bit less of a guaranteed win. Limiting the enhancements retained on Kingsbane to only one (the most recent) might be good there.
There are so many variations of "problematic" and cards that fit into those slots, it's hard to even begin.
Corridor Creeper, Bonemare and Scalebane are neutrals that generally outclass all other tempo cards at their mana costs. They are problematic for limiting deckbuilding and making ladder very homogeneous. Powerful cards like that are OK as class cards, but not as neutrals. Neutrals are what you should go to when you lack a suitable class card, they shouldn't be your first choice (other than for tech).
Patches is a step worse as it also limits design space for Pirates heavily. It's almost impossible to think of a world where a Pirate deck won't be running Patches, regardless of how strong other cards get.
Then there are cards that doesn't exist, and therefore create a problem. For example there's no reliable way to break OTK combos, other than Warlock's Treachery shenanigans. This has caused the entire control archetype to almost disappear completely, because they can't beat an OTK regardless of how powerful their control game is. In my opinion Hearthstone needs targeted discard in the neutral slot to solve this problem.
High-roll cards like Barnes create frustrating gameplay by making players feel like they lost due to purely bad luck, and that they couldn't have done anything about it even with a perfect draw of their own. This is of course dependent on which minions Barnes can pull, and what can be done afterwards (like resurrecting them with full stats). The same is the case with Keleseth. In general I don't think low-cost legendaries should be this impactful, unless good answers to their effects are easily accessible. For example, most control decks can handle even a super strong N'Zoth, given that they have time to prepare and find AoE, but what deck can properly answer a turn 3 Barnes into Y'Shaarj into Y'Shaarj, followed by a resurrect in Big Priest?
Cards that randomly or semi-randomly generate cards are problematic in Arena, where they increase the luck factor by giving players more common access to super powerful cards that normally appear infrequently in the draft, while also diminishing the value of good hand-tracking and intuition.
Let's stop there.
Corridor Creeper is the only card I honestly think needs to go. Not because I think it's ridiculously broken or anything.
It's just a 2 of in basically every deck because minions dying is part of the game. Aggro, tempo, control, combo. It reminds me a bit of Azure Drake but much worse. I don't think such a ubiquitously played card is great for the game.
Seriously, playing Highlander Priest, the only card that I can't get around is Frost Lich Jaina
The Lifesteal part is really OP and kills all momentum you had or can hope to obtain moving forward.
Jade Idol is the only problematic card in the game. It basically deleted the control archetype. It is sad to think that it will never get nerfed now that it'll rotate to wild.
Valar Morghulis
"この 先は 暗い 夜道 だけが も 知らない それでも信じて 進むんだ 星が その道 を 少し でも 照らしてくをるのを"
Patches will rotate next expansion, no need to nerf anything there.
Bonemare is good, but not OP in my opinion. It does have reasonable counterplay (just don't elave anything up turn 6) and it's actually a very important tool for midrange decks to get taunt in the later stages, which keep full aggro in check.
Corridor Creeper I agree is busted and should be nerfed as soon as possible. It ahs no counterplay, no required synergies and no real downsides. I'd like it if they just changed th effect to Friendly minions only in order to either make it a card for token/swarm decks (like Shaman or Zoolock), or to enemy minions only to make it a card for defensive decks that can use it as tempo after clearing the board. Right now it's just a boring must-have that doesn't require any deckbuilding.
Nerfing Vilepsine would be a terrible idea right before the rotation. Tempo Rogue already loses a bunch of tools (PIrate package is very important) and nerfing this card would inevitably just harm any slower Rogue decks as well, which would just seem unfair to the class
I tried having fun once. It was awful.
i love it when i see razakus when i play with my jaina :)
I don't know if this is a 'fixable' issue. Just as there will always be a lich king, there will always be an OP card. Get rid of the mentioned cards and the meta would divert to the next most op card.
Then that card is overplayed and hearthstone is stale all over again...
best suggestion is to either accept it or nerf current all-class cards and make class-specific cards stronger
'
Think about it from the other perspective though.
You're about to lose to a highlander priest, which is pretty boring to play against anyway, and you manage to make a comeback and win the game. It feels great.
The unfortunate thing with Hearthstone is that 90% of the time when you lose it isn't a fun game but for the other player it is. (though some decks aren't fun to win with either)
All the new resurrection cards are problematic, for they are efficient and they break balance between threats and removals.