I realize that people get touchy when it comes to being called out for being wrong but i feel like it needs to be said because i see the same pattern every single time when it comes to spoilers. I got a few things that people often resort to and why their point of view is very narrow minded or their just wrong.
1. When a card in a class is pretty good, the thing is that they say " its a good card but it doesnt fit into Deck X" or "its a pretty good card, but it wouldnt make Deck Y any better" This is a common mistake people make. Kibler put it best when he said players often look at cards only at face value and not what kind of decks the card can make.
2. The first point beings me to this one. Players judge cards early on when only less then half of the set is released and they rush to judgement. they say " this card in warrior isnt very good cause warrior needs help"
3. The final point i see is the fact that people only view cards on the base of they only see cards through the lens of what deck is considered Tier 1 or 2. They often only thing " this card isnt in deck X or Y so its probably just bad" Cough *Trump*
I know i can be wrong too, but it pains me when we are over 4 years into hearthstone and people are still making the same mistakes and i thought people would learn to not overlook cards only based of whats not popular.
I always get a bit of a chuckle out of someone literally saying "How can you think this card is good, it doesn't fit into any meta decks". I'm pretty sure I've seen so many variations of that sentence haha.
I try to view everything with an open mind. Even in doing so, I'm probably wrong all the time lol. But yeah, good job on the effort of making this post, but it's not going to reach the people it's truly aimed at, or they just won't care and they will continue judging cards poorly lol.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Twitch name: Anatak15 NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
It's called expectations, assumptions, and hype, all accomplish nothing and all are part of any new release in any media.
You're putting expectations on other players on the other hand while also putting yourself on a pedestal. Which also accomplishes nothing except stroking your own ego.
How bout we just move on because this is gonna keep happening in any game/tv/movie release ever.
Example, "I bet they're gonna kill off *blank* in the next Walking Dead season, he/she was never really popular."
especially at this point i think its kinda awkward to make too many assumptions about card strengths - 3 sets are rotating and only a handful of the new cards are released so its rather impossible to make any guess which archetypes will emerge/become strong.
couldn't stop laughing when i saw the "im disappointed with witchwood" thread
I agree that I've seen some people make terrible mistakes when reviewing cards, but you have to remember that it's impossible to tell how good a new deck that no one has ever played yet will be, so you kinda have to view cards based on the decks we already have. What really gets me though is when they dismiss cards that were insanely good in already established decks, such as Dr Boom.
B) OP cards, in such a way that they can't even go under the radar like Jade Idol
The community getting less of either A or B as correct reviews (which are usually the only possible reviews to get right for most of us, anyway) means an expansion is at least bound to surprise us when it hits, and that more of its cards stand a chance to see play in the first weeks of the meta. (See: Gadgetzan for the exact opposite of this)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health. - Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
Another reason for wrong card rewievs is jumping on the hype train without a second thought. (Uther of the Ebon Blade as an example.) Or not reading the cards properly. (Like I thought that Corridor Creeper was just a worse Volcanic Drake....LOL)
You can still have a meaningful discussion about a card even if the set is not fully revealed.
Sure, but part of that discussion time ends up being needed to be revisited again once the set is fully revealed, potentially wasting some of that earlier discussion time on inaccurate speculation.
I always find the speculation and predictions a very fun part of the reveal season. At the end of the day, no one is going to predict with 100% accuracy how the meta is going to be like post-launch. But theorycrafting and having crazy ideas is fun.
Also, there is the feeling of vindication when the card everyone was writing off but you thought was going to work out ends up being playable.
Sure, but part of that discussion time ends up being needed to be revisited again once the set is fully revealed, potentially wasting some of that earlier discussion time on inaccurate speculation.
Sure...but wasting time is what we're all doing here.
As to point 2, you can only judge a card based on what you know. Like when Rin, the First Disciple was released, it was voted bad because noone was expecting attrition decks to be a big part of the meta. And now, Rin has its place in control warlock with the sole purpose is to win the mirror match and the few matches against other priest and mage control decks. But it was possible to judge Rin correct if you said that she is slow, but useful in slow matchups. That is exactly what she is: She can win attrition games that end in fatigue and she is a bad card in faster matchups.
And as mentioned above, judging cards is fun in the first place. However, often you can point out the strength and weakness of a card without knowing the meta by defining the conditions when the card would be good and when it would be bad.
I think one major mistake people make during judging a card is putting too much weight on the extreme cases. Like some people only focused on the turn 8 Medivh, the Guardian into Ultimate Infestation dream of Twig of the World Tree but didn't really consider the slim chance of having the combo at the right time in hand (and maybe also underestimated the one turn you pay 4 mana for 1 damage). Or with Living Mana : Many people were afraid of Devolve and Mass Dispel (which happened, but far less than they thought). The main approach with effects should be to look at the average result that can be expected.
I realize that people get touchy when it comes to being called out for being wrong but i feel like it needs to be said because i see the same pattern every single time when it comes to spoilers. I got a few things that people often resort to and why their point of view is very narrow minded or their just wrong.
1. When a card in a class is pretty good, the thing is that they say " its a good card but it doesnt fit into Deck X" or "its a pretty good card, but it wouldnt make Deck Y any better" This is a common mistake people make. Kibler put it best when he said players often look at cards only at face value and not what kind of decks the card can make.
2. The first point beings me to this one. Players judge cards early on when only less then half of the set is released and they rush to judgement. they say " this card in warrior isnt very good cause warrior needs help"
3. The final point i see is the fact that people only view cards on the base of they only see cards through the lens of what deck is considered Tier 1 or 2. They often only thing " this card isnt in deck X or Y so its probably just bad" Cough *Trump*
I know i can be wrong too, but it pains me when we are over 4 years into hearthstone and people are still making the same mistakes and i thought people would learn to not overlook cards only based of whats not popular.
Hearthstone is a game of "copy and pasting"
I always get a bit of a chuckle out of someone literally saying "How can you think this card is good, it doesn't fit into any meta decks". I'm pretty sure I've seen so many variations of that sentence haha.
I try to view everything with an open mind. Even in doing so, I'm probably wrong all the time lol. But yeah, good job on the effort of making this post, but it's not going to reach the people it's truly aimed at, or they just won't care and they will continue judging cards poorly lol.
Twitch name: Anatak15
NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
I agree that many ppl jump to conclusions way too early. But that aint gonna change, cause internet.
The real question is, why did you flag it as "arena" thread ?:D
- Click Here To Join Us On Discord! -
It's called expectations, assumptions, and hype, all accomplish nothing and all are part of any new release in any media.
You're putting expectations on other players on the other hand while also putting yourself on a pedestal. Which also accomplishes nothing except stroking your own ego.
How bout we just move on because this is gonna keep happening in any game/tv/movie release ever.
Example, "I bet they're gonna kill off *blank* in the next Walking Dead season, he/she was never really popular."
You can still have a meaningful discussion about a card even if the set is not fully revealed.
especially at this point i think its kinda awkward to make too many assumptions about card strengths - 3 sets are rotating and only a handful of the new cards are released so its rather impossible to make any guess which archetypes will emerge/become strong.
couldn't stop laughing when i saw the "im disappointed with witchwood" thread
I agree that I've seen some people make terrible mistakes when reviewing cards, but you have to remember that it's impossible to tell how good a new deck that no one has ever played yet will be, so you kinda have to view cards based on the decks we already have. What really gets me though is when they dismiss cards that were insanely good in already established decks, such as Dr Boom.
Card reviewers are stupid and probably buy pants online.
It's a much better sign if reviewers are wrong, though. The few times when the HS community gets it right are either:
A) Filler cards that won't see play like Worgen Greaser
B) OP cards, in such a way that they can't even go under the radar like Jade Idol
The community getting less of either A or B as correct reviews (which are usually the only possible reviews to get right for most of us, anyway) means an expansion is at least bound to surprise us when it hits, and that more of its cards stand a chance to see play in the first weeks of the meta. (See: Gadgetzan for the exact opposite of this)
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health.
- Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
Another reason for wrong card rewievs is jumping on the hype train without a second thought. (Uther of the Ebon Blade as an example.) Or not reading the cards properly. (Like I thought that Corridor Creeper was just a worse Volcanic Drake....LOL)
It's their opinion lol, where's the problem?
You can argue or discuss about it. But this topic will definately not help, lol
I always find the speculation and predictions a very fun part of the reveal season. At the end of the day, no one is going to predict with 100% accuracy how the meta is going to be like post-launch. But theorycrafting and having crazy ideas is fun.
Also, there is the feeling of vindication when the card everyone was writing off but you thought was going to work out ends up being playable.
So what wrong or right predictions are fun. After expansion released we focus on failed predictions more than predictions that was on spot
Points 1 and 3 seem to be redundant.
As to point 2, you can only judge a card based on what you know. Like when Rin, the First Disciple was released, it was voted bad because noone was expecting attrition decks to be a big part of the meta. And now, Rin has its place in control warlock with the sole purpose is to win the mirror match and the few matches against other priest and mage control decks. But it was possible to judge Rin correct if you said that she is slow, but useful in slow matchups. That is exactly what she is: She can win attrition games that end in fatigue and she is a bad card in faster matchups.
And as mentioned above, judging cards is fun in the first place. However, often you can point out the strength and weakness of a card without knowing the meta by defining the conditions when the card would be good and when it would be bad.
I think one major mistake people make during judging a card is putting too much weight on the extreme cases. Like some people only focused on the turn 8 Medivh, the Guardian into Ultimate Infestation dream of Twig of the World Tree but didn't really consider the slim chance of having the combo at the right time in hand (and maybe also underestimated the one turn you pay 4 mana for 1 damage). Or with Living Mana : Many people were afraid of Devolve and Mass Dispel (which happened, but far less than they thought). The main approach with effects should be to look at the average result that can be expected.