top-tier versatile card draw, specially regarding the mana ramping cards (I'm looking at you, Nourish and Wild Growth with Excess Mana), a problem that has reached a broken level with the arrival of Ultimate Infestation.
and ... Innervate. But hey, every class has to have a broken card, right? It's called class identity.
With all that said, I suggest a list of minor nerfs to each of the aforementioned points (with the exception of Innervate, I can't see how to change this card without making it unplayable), that should bring back Druid to a more average level while remaining good :
It still has amazing value, but to a lesser extent, and it can't go face anymore.
4 health is enough to fight aggro in a situational manner, 5 is over the top.
Summoning a Jade Golem is valued at 1.5 to 2 mana. This has versatility and potentially infinite value, specially with Gadgetzan Auctioneer and Ultimate Infestation's card draw. This should slow it down enough for it to be beatable. If needed, adjust Skulking Geist to be a better designed card.
If we deal with jades and innervate I think the druid problem is gone. Then ultimate infestation and spreading plague really wouldnt be that problematic.
If we deal with jades and innervate I think the druid problem is gone. Then ultimate infestation and spreading plague really wouldnt be that problematic.
If jades are the only thing changed, Ramp Druid will remain a very similar problematic deck (although to a lesser extent, true).
There are already several threads on this topic with many good ideas. The problems are so obvious anyone who plays will notice them and think of solutions. The problem isn't a lack of ideas, it's a lack of action from Blizzard (or more likely, a technical inability for them to implement changes quickly which they've mentioned several times).
Talk about overnerf. If you could be objective instead of just salty. People need to understand that they will lose about half of games they play at best. This drivel belongs in the salt thread. And no, I don't even play Druid, I just don't want it neutered to oblivion because of butthurt snowflakes - see I want my wins to matter not handed on a platter.
I'd be happy if they removed Jade Idol's ability to go infinite to make it possible for control decks to win, and bumped the cost of Spreading Plague to 6 in order to preserve its weakness to aggro, to keep it in check. I really do like the Ultimate Infestation change, though.
Today in my free brawl pack I got Barongeddon, then I had a cup of fresh green tea. As a result of that, I think Priest is OP because my keyboard is not a mechanical one. I hope Blizzard will address this issue.
Why not a cap on the size of the jades? At least a cap on its health or attack and the other can go scaling. Or the shuffled jade idols can be such that it can only spawn a jade, and not shuffle itself. I think this would control the infinite value
Or just nerf innervate. The ability to skip turns combined with this much ramp is broken. So either remove the ramp or fix innervate. It's really that simple.
Rewind to a few months ago. Imagine if Blizzard revealed an upcoming "pack filler" card that was a 2 mana 1/5 vanilla neutral no text no faction. The reception would actually have been decent.
Nope. Better give it taunt, beast synergy, the option to go poisonous, and only available to the same class that also gets UI. Makes sense.
Jades should never exist in the first place. It's a broken mechanic and will continue to wreck Standard & Wild for as long as it isn't nerfed.
Same goes for Pirates, same goes for Murlocs. The powercreep is too strong with these ones.
Either one of them is broken, or none of them. This completely invalid "jades are broken" argument is used to sabotage every thread that aims to have some interesting discussion on Druid. Dunno what to say about how actually pirates, murlocs, beasts, and everything else that might win you a game are also somehow "broken".
About the actual topic, I think it is obvious that the possibility of jades to grow 15/15 is not the problem. Jade Druid was tier fucking three, when evolve shamans, aggro druids and pirate warriors were smashing everyone just recently, couple of months ago. It is obvious that what made druids rise possible are KOFT cards such as Spreading Plague and Ultimate Infestation. I even would say that plague played the biggest role there. Aggressive decks were lowering jade druid's winrate hard before but plague solved that problem. I think even if you change infestations for auctioneers you will still have somewhat t1 deck because of the plague.
Talk about overnerf. If you could be objective instead of just salty. People need to understand that they will lose about half of games they play at best. This drivel belongs in the salt thread. And no, I don't even play Druid, I just don't want it neutered to oblivion because of butthurt snowflakes - see I want my wins to matter not handed on a platter.
Well, I've given a detailed reasoning + statistical data to support my post. You just randomly qualify my post of "overnerf". Now guess again who's the one non objective and salty (and also a hypocrite)? The point of a thread is exchanging ideas in a reasoned manner bro
Or just nerf innervate. The ability to skip turns combined with this much ramp is broken. So either remove the ramp or fix innervate. It's really that simple.
Yep, Innervate is easily one of the main reasons Druid is problematic. Although I can't see how to fix it without rendering it useless. Maybe make it reduce the cost of the next 2 cards you play by (1). Or "refresh 2 mana crystals"? I like the latter actually:
Rewind to a few months ago. Imagine if Blizzard revealed an upcoming "pack filler" card that was a 2 mana 1/5 vanilla neutral no text no faction. The reception would actually have been decent.
Nope. Better give it taunt, beast synergy, the option to go poisonous, and only available to the same class that also gets UI. Makes sense.
This. A 2 mana 1/5 beast Taunt is already good by itself. The versatility to go Poisonous then makes Druid of the Swarm even better. And summoning 3+ of these taunts for 5 mana just maked Protect the King! and Force of Nature cry in a corner.
Wow people are really overreacting and making insane nerf threads. This is just a witch hunt to kill the druid class. Can we kill the Paladin and Warrior class next? I really hate those guys and their high win rates. I know lets all start nerf threads telling blizzard how to nerf cards "we think" are broken.
The scarab 1/5 in token druid is fine, however the Spreading Plague is ridiculous, they wouldn't be unreasonable at 1/3. Scarabs for Malfurion aren't even that good, in fact you should almost always choose poisonous unless situation massively demands it.
Wild Growth is fine, but it shouldn't reward you with Excess mana. Sometimes cards get dead in a match up that you can't even cast, at least this would count to Yogg/Auctioneer.
Ultimate Infestation should break your own mana crystals because that is the definition of infestation, at the moment it just feels like Ultimate Infestation.
Innervate should either rotate out now or be changed drastically. I'm a fan of getting rid completely.
Jade Idol should just simply cost 2, or they should scale jades to cap out at 7/7 or something.
It's amazing just how interesting and fun this HS series is ATM because there's no druid. However, the community won't agree. They'll moan and moan and moan about things being too strong until Chillwind Yeti is back in the meta and breaking things, then they'll want that nerfed. People need to learn to accept that they will lose games occasionally. Once Druid is nerfed and make no mistake it will be, the power level is so high, people will moan about priest. If that got nerfed, they'd moan about the next strongest thing and so on, it would just continue. I don't think too many people are that capable of enjoying Hearthstone, even in Un'goro which was one of the most balanced metas ever people still cried out for nerfs to just about every single archetype.
Sometimes you just have strong decks, and if you have strong decks then you must have a weak deck. There's only room for 30 cards afterall. Druid needs nerfing, sure, but when druid does and I wouldn't be sad if they broke it since it is one of the classes that has never really been bad.
But yeah, if you're not watching the summer playoffs, it's showing what HS is like without Jade Druid and it actually looks awesome. In fact, I wouldn't be and loads of people wouldn't be too sad if Jades just disappeared entirely.
Don't get me wrong, I think Knights of the Frozen Throne is one of the best expansions Hearthstone has had so far.
The only issue with it is Druid: overly strong and ubiquitous.
In other words, Druid needs, without a doubt, to be nerfed. Now, the question is:
What should the nerf be?
The problem with Druid right now, is that on top of one of the strongest mechanics of the game (cheating mana), he gets:
With all that said, I suggest a list of minor nerfs to each of the aforementioned points (with the exception of Innervate, I can't see how to change this card without making it unplayable), that should bring back Druid to a more average level while remaining good :
EDIT: I figured out how to fix Innervate.
If we deal with jades and innervate I think the druid problem is gone. Then ultimate infestation and spreading plague really wouldnt be that problematic.
Fuck cubelock
remove card draw from ultimate infestation. and make scarab beetle 1/3
There are already several threads on this topic with many good ideas. The problems are so obvious anyone who plays will notice them and think of solutions. The problem isn't a lack of ideas, it's a lack of action from Blizzard (or more likely, a technical inability for them to implement changes quickly which they've mentioned several times).
Move Innervate to HoF.
Reduces the cost of UI for 8 manas (maybe 7) and "Choose one: Cause 5 damage and gain 5 armor or summon a 5/5 and draw 2 cards."
Jade Idol: "Choose one: Summon a jade golem or restore 5 life for your hero."
DK cost 8 manas.
Talk about overnerf. If you could be objective instead of just salty. People need to understand that they will lose about half of games they play at best. This drivel belongs in the salt thread. And no, I don't even play Druid, I just don't want it neutered to oblivion because of butthurt snowflakes - see I want my wins to matter not handed on a platter.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
I'd be happy if they removed Jade Idol's ability to go infinite to make it possible for control decks to win, and bumped the cost of Spreading Plague to 6 in order to preserve its weakness to aggro, to keep it in check. I really do like the Ultimate Infestation change, though.
#gNOmeferatu
Why not a cap on the size of the jades? At least a cap on its health or attack and the other can go scaling. Or the shuffled jade idols can be such that it can only spawn a jade, and not shuffle itself. I think this would control the infinite value
Or just nerf innervate. The ability to skip turns combined with this much ramp is broken. So either remove the ramp or fix innervate. It's really that simple.
Jade idol: choose 1 summon or draw a card
Spreading plague: 1/3 taunts
Mark of the lotus: give your beasts 1/1
Sorry but is my opinion. It is not only druid need changes but the whole game. This game is inconsistent; unbalanced, unfun, unall.
Jades should never exist in the first place. It's a broken mechanic and will continue to wreck Standard & Wild for as long as it isn't nerfed.
Same goes for Pirates, same goes for Murlocs. The powercreep is too strong with these ones.
Rewind to a few months ago. Imagine if Blizzard revealed an upcoming "pack filler" card that was a 2 mana 1/5 vanilla neutral no text no faction. The reception would actually have been decent.
Nope. Better give it taunt, beast synergy, the option to go poisonous, and only available to the same class that also gets UI. Makes sense.
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
Quasi-stellar radio source
Wow people are really overreacting and making insane nerf threads. This is just a witch hunt to kill the druid class. Can we kill the Paladin and Warrior class next? I really hate those guys and their high win rates. I know lets all start nerf threads telling blizzard how to nerf cards "we think" are broken.
The scarab 1/5 in token druid is fine, however the Spreading Plague is ridiculous, they wouldn't be unreasonable at 1/3. Scarabs for Malfurion aren't even that good, in fact you should almost always choose poisonous unless situation massively demands it.
Wild Growth is fine, but it shouldn't reward you with Excess mana. Sometimes cards get dead in a match up that you can't even cast, at least this would count to Yogg/Auctioneer.
Ultimate Infestation should break your own mana crystals because that is the definition of infestation, at the moment it just feels like Ultimate Infestation.
Innervate should either rotate out now or be changed drastically. I'm a fan of getting rid completely.
Jade Idol should just simply cost 2, or they should scale jades to cap out at 7/7 or something.
It's amazing just how interesting and fun this HS series is ATM because there's no druid. However, the community won't agree. They'll moan and moan and moan about things being too strong until Chillwind Yeti is back in the meta and breaking things, then they'll want that nerfed. People need to learn to accept that they will lose games occasionally. Once Druid is nerfed and make no mistake it will be, the power level is so high, people will moan about priest. If that got nerfed, they'd moan about the next strongest thing and so on, it would just continue. I don't think too many people are that capable of enjoying Hearthstone, even in Un'goro which was one of the most balanced metas ever people still cried out for nerfs to just about every single archetype.
Sometimes you just have strong decks, and if you have strong decks then you must have a weak deck. There's only room for 30 cards afterall. Druid needs nerfing, sure, but when druid does and I wouldn't be sad if they broke it since it is one of the classes that has never really been bad.
But yeah, if you're not watching the summer playoffs, it's showing what HS is like without Jade Druid and it actually looks awesome. In fact, I wouldn't be and loads of people wouldn't be too sad if Jades just disappeared entirely.
There are too many threads about this already. Please post here instead:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/200759-druid-is-virtually-unbeatable-and-this-needs-to-be