so, apparently caverns below was nerfed because it was powerful against control decks, right? doesnt razakus do exactly the same thing? in the current metagame we can barely see any control warlock, mage and paladin because they simply dont have a chance against this deck, despite them having potential to be good. the big difference between razakus and jade druid is that we can tech in vs jade druid with geist (from a personal experience, ive got many wins against jade druid with my control mage), but there is nothing we can do to avoid being destroyed by the hero power "shot gun". mindbreaker is AWFUL and even double dirty rat to target a single minion is a very unreliable game plan.
what im trying to say is that it doesnt matter if razakus is broken or not. Caverns below was VERY weak against pirate warrior (probably one of the most common decks in early ungoro) and it still got nerfed. rakazus on the other hand runs multiple tools to handle agressive decks. it can even beat the most popular agressive deck of the current meta (tempo rogue) with good draws.
so, is it correct to compare caverns below with rakazus?
I dont think so cause razakus is a broken Control deck while caverns was a broken aggro deck. Razakus is slower and you dont hit face all the time
And as many many mannnyy people said before, razakus doesnt need nerfing. Just be patient until wotog rotates out, and raza rotates out and razakus is trash
woops sorry i think i forgot to mention that i truly believe rakazus isnt actually broken. its just the fact that it makes control unplayable in the current meta that makes me wonder if it deserves a small nerf
I'm seeing an awful lot of midrange decks out there due to the popularity of this Razakus deck. I miss stomping on aggro decks with dodgy control decks but now I rarely get the chance. Thanks Razakus v.v
1. They experimenting with cards at times before one set is rotating, or just letting them rotate instead of nerfing. If something is too powerfull "its okay, becouse it will rotate soon".
2. Cavern was too powerfull overall, not only vs control. It was theirs mistake. They thought "players will add some other cards to theirs decks, not only those to help completing quest". So they thought the quest will be completing mostly at 5-7 turn, not 4-5.
So mostly becouse its core card will rotate soon they will not nerf it and they dont care about wild so its all fine.
well i changed the title of this thread cause im pretty sure it gives the wrong idea. im definitely not complaining about rakazus itself, but just questioning the fact it restricts control a lot, just like caverns used to thats all
Dead Mans Hand Warrior actually beats Razakus. So there is at least 1 control deck that beats it.
The only thing i realy want to go is this retarded steal mechanic... and that goes for Rogue/Priest alike. Not that its actually strong but its so stupid random and sometimes you lose because RNG.
Ofcause soft RNG is a normal part of a cardgame but this hard RNG stuff like Tuskar Totemic, Barnes, Burglars etc. realy has to leave this game.
Before the hate begins: I don't think that OP asks an unreasonable question, though I'd like to add that Quest Rogue wasn't nerfed purely because it destroyed control decks. It also got nerfed because there was an overwhelming consensus from the player base that the deck was the most unfun deck to play against probably in the history of Hearthstone. Even Kibler expressed his hatred and argued for a nerf, even though he usually is a pretty moderate and reasonable person.
Against Rogue there was like a 99% chance that you lost and you always thought that you were wasting your time hunting for that 1%. There's a lot more interaction against Priest and you don't feel like you're wasting your time because there's always a reasonable chance that one of their combo pieces is at the bottom.
sorry but you totally get it wrong with the caverns below nerf.
it was never nerfed because it makes control unplayable and it was also never broken. the only reason it got nerfed was, because casual players (the biggest amount of the HS playerbase) cried and flamed long enough to get it done. quest rogue was necessary for a healthy metagame since it kept Jade in check - some weeks after the caverns nerf, druidstone began and the same casuals who wanted the cavern nerf started to cry again, this time because they could not beat druid anymore. I hate to read posts like that where people who do not really understand the game and the meta in detail wants to nerf a tier 3 deck again. honestly, we are having the best metagame maybe of all time, every class does have a viable metadeck and there is no deck which rules them all like midrange shaman back in the days. stop calling for nerfs and start to enjoy the game as it is in the current state please.
Razakus is full of deck interaction. You try to kill him, he tries to stop you. One of you will fail.
The Crystal Caverns was not full of interaction. You try to kill him, he ignores you while he completes his quest and then smashes you with 5/5 charging 1 mana minions that get shadowstepped over and over.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/hearthstone/topic/20757246514
so, apparently caverns below was nerfed because it was powerful against control decks, right? doesnt razakus do exactly the same thing? in the current metagame we can barely see any control warlock, mage and paladin because they simply dont have a chance against this deck, despite them having potential to be good. the big difference between razakus and jade druid is that we can tech in vs jade druid with geist (from a personal experience, ive got many wins against jade druid with my control mage), but there is nothing we can do to avoid being destroyed by the hero power "shot gun". mindbreaker is AWFUL and even double dirty rat to target a single minion is a very unreliable game plan.
what im trying to say is that it doesnt matter if razakus is broken or not. Caverns below was VERY weak against pirate warrior (probably one of the most common decks in early ungoro) and it still got nerfed. rakazus on the other hand runs multiple tools to handle agressive decks. it can even beat the most popular agressive deck of the current meta (tempo rogue) with good draws.
so, is it correct to compare caverns below with rakazus?
oh god there are somany of these complaints
I dont think so cause razakus is a broken Control deck while caverns was a broken aggro deck. Razakus is slower and you dont hit face all the time
And as many many mannnyy people said before, razakus doesnt need nerfing. Just be patient until wotog rotates out, and raza rotates out and razakus is trash
woops sorry i think i forgot to mention that i truly believe rakazus isnt actually broken. its just the fact that it makes control unplayable in the current meta that makes me wonder if it deserves a small nerf
I'm seeing an awful lot of midrange decks out there due to the popularity of this Razakus deck. I miss stomping on aggro decks with dodgy control decks but now I rarely get the chance. Thanks Razakus v.v
whats with deck complaints at this time, first netdecking now this? guys deal with it you cant do anything about it
Kobolds are almost as bad as goblins, they gotta die (⌐■_■)–︻╦╤─
1. They experimenting with cards at times before one set is rotating, or just letting them rotate instead of nerfing. If something is too powerfull "its okay, becouse it will rotate soon".
2. Cavern was too powerfull overall, not only vs control. It was theirs mistake. They thought "players will add some other cards to theirs decks, not only those to help completing quest". So they thought the quest will be completing mostly at 5-7 turn, not 4-5.
So mostly becouse its core card will rotate soon they will not nerf it and they dont care about wild so its all fine.
I use a control nzoth pally last season. Went from rank 22 with 1 star to rank 10 3 star and never lost a game. Rip priests haha
well i changed the title of this thread cause im pretty sure it gives the wrong idea. im definitely not complaining about rakazus itself, but just questioning the fact it restricts control a lot, just like caverns used to thats all
Dead Mans Hand Warrior actually beats Razakus. So there is at least 1 control deck that beats it.
The only thing i realy want to go is this retarded steal mechanic... and that goes for Rogue/Priest alike. Not that its actually strong but its so stupid random and sometimes you lose because RNG.
Ofcause soft RNG is a normal part of a cardgame but this hard RNG stuff like Tuskar Totemic, Barnes, Burglars etc. realy has to leave this game.
Before the hate begins: I don't think that OP asks an unreasonable question, though I'd like to add that Quest Rogue wasn't nerfed purely because it destroyed control decks. It also got nerfed because there was an overwhelming consensus from the player base that the deck was the most unfun deck to play against probably in the history of Hearthstone. Even Kibler expressed his hatred and argued for a nerf, even though he usually is a pretty moderate and reasonable person.
Against Rogue there was like a 99% chance that you lost and you always thought that you were wasting your time hunting for that 1%. There's a lot more interaction against Priest and you don't feel like you're wasting your time because there's always a reasonable chance that one of their combo pieces is at the bottom.
sorry but you totally get it wrong with the caverns below nerf.
it was never nerfed because it makes control unplayable and it was also never broken. the only reason it got nerfed was, because casual players (the biggest amount of the HS playerbase) cried and flamed long enough to get it done. quest rogue was necessary for a healthy metagame since it kept Jade in check - some weeks after the caverns nerf, druidstone began and the same casuals who wanted the cavern nerf started to cry again, this time because they could not beat druid anymore. I hate to read posts like that where people who do not really understand the game and the meta in detail wants to nerf a tier 3 deck again. honestly, we are having the best metagame maybe of all time, every class does have a viable metadeck and there is no deck which rules them all like midrange shaman back in the days. stop calling for nerfs and start to enjoy the game as it is in the current state please.
Razakus only sees play IN control decks. Logic does not compute.
Razakus is full of deck interaction. You try to kill him, he tries to stop you. One of you will fail.
The Crystal Caverns was not full of interaction. You try to kill him, he ignores you while he completes his quest and then smashes you with 5/5 charging 1 mana minions that get shadowstepped over and over.
The two decks are not in the same class.
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