It was announced that the interaction of eg Auchenai and MoP doesn't kill you anymore. Imo the change is incredibly stupid. The interaction was fully logical so I see no reason to change it. Basically one of the effects now doesn't trigger when it should which is pretty much just a bug.
Why it's incredibly stupid? In your opinion is logical that hitting with MoP while Auchenai is on board kills you when it deals 1 dmg? It should take 1 health from you, not until you have -3.
Without taking into philosophical to argue that anything that exists must be inherently logical...
Consider damage and heal as opposite and completely distinct concepts: in such a vision, negative healing is NOT damage, just negative healing. And vice versa.
Now, lifesteal applies damage and then equal healing. The auchenai inverts the sign of healing, making it negative. So it is negative healing, yet not damage (as we have just conceived it). Hence it cannot trigger itself again.
As you can see, the change is just as logical as the previous situation. And it avoids meme situations from becoming a common thing (making auchenai and embrace the shadows much less versatile), with the introduction of a widespread keyword.
This. It's less pulling a poll as it is trying to argue a point. Meh to your poll.
I liked the interaction but I can see why they are removing it. Before it was a rather specific event caused by only a spar few interactions. Now, we are having an entire expansion that's highlighting a keyword that will kill the user if used wrong. They probably don't want priests and warriors (via their 4 mana portal) to utterly avoid the entire Lifesteal mechanic for fear of autolosing because of something that is probably a bug anyway.
Not the first time they've changed a mechanic due to future mechanics (secrets affecting on your turn, eaglehorn bows not triggering on opponent secrets, so on). This is yet another.
I think this was a needed change because Lifesteal might become a prominent mechanic now. It was fine when only two non-priest cards enabled the infinite damage loop, but now who knows how many more there will be?
I am sad about the change too, but regardless of logic, I think it was needed.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health. - Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
This. It's less pulling a poll as it is trying to argue a point. Meh to your poll.
I liked the interaction but I can see why they are removing it. Before it was a rather specific event caused by only a spar few interactions. Now, we are having an entire expansion that's highlighting a keyword that will kill the user if used wrong. They probably don't want priests and warriors (via their 4 mana portal) to utterly avoid the entire Lifesteal mechanic for fear of autolosing because of something that is probably a bug anyway.
Not the first time they've changed a mechanic due to future mechanics (secrets affecting on your turn, eaglehorn bows not triggering on opponent secrets, so on). This is yet another.
The changes you mentioned are either card text changes or just rule changes. This change changes a single interaction between two mechanics that previously was the logical conclusion of rules to now be a random exception to the rules. I don't find the situations comparable.
Why it's incredibly stupid? In your opinion is logical that hitting with MoP while Auchenai is on board kills you when it deals 1 dmg? It should take 1 health from you, not until you have -3.
MoP deals damage, therefore it should trigger again.
Without taking into philosophical to argue that anything that exists must be inherently logical...
Consider damage and heal as opposite and completely distinct concepts: in such a vision, negative healing is NOT damage, just negative healing. And vice versa.
Now, lifesteal applies damage and then equal healing. The auchenai inverts the sign of healing, making it negative. So it is negative healing, yet not damage (as we have just conceived it). Hence it cannot trigger itself again.
As you can see, the change is just as logical as the previous situation. And it avoids meme situations from becoming a common thing (making auchenai and embrace the shadows much less versatile), with the introduction of a widespread keyword.
This would make sense if negative healing didn't trigger Floating Watchers.
Lifesteal and "does damage, heal for that much" Are two different things. Lifesteal heals/does damage and stops. "Does damage, heal for that much" or whatever doesn't. I don't understand why you can't get that through your head. They are changing lifesteal like cards into normal lifesteal cards to avoid confusion. There will be no text saying "every time this minion hurts you, heal for that much" anymore, therefore whatever intuitive shit you are rambling about doesn't apply. I swear there are loke 12 of you bitching about this and the other 12 million hearthstone players either didn't know or thought it was a bug to begin with. Get over it.
Lifesteal= "Heal for damage caused."
"Whenever this minion does damage, heal for that much."
Two completely different mechanics, but keep fighting the good fight to make the game inconsistent with these two different mechanics both existing at the same time.
Lifesteal and "does damage, heal for that much" Are two different things. Lifesteal heals/does damage and stops. "Does damage, heal for that much" or whatever doesn't. I don't understand why you can't get that through your head. They are changing lifesteal like cards into normal lifesteal cards to avoid confusion. There will be no text saying "every time this minion hurts you, heal for that much" anymore, therefore whatever intuitive shit you are rambling about doesn't apply. I swear there are loke 12 of you bitching about this and the other 12 million hearthstone players either didn't know or thought it was a bug to begin with. Get over it.
Lifesteal= "Heal for damage caused."
"Whenever this minion does damage, heal for that much."
Two completely different mechanics, but keep fighting the good fight to make the game inconsistent with these two different mechanics both existing at the same time.
The mechanics are worded differently but what do you claim to be the difference in how they function? First the card deals damage, then it heals for the damage caused.
This. It's less pulling a poll as it is trying to argue a point. Meh to your poll.
I liked the interaction but I can see why they are removing it. Before it was a rather specific event caused by only a spar few interactions. Now, we are having an entire expansion that's highlighting a keyword that will kill the user if used wrong. They probably don't want priests and warriors (via their 4 mana portal) to utterly avoid the entire Lifesteal mechanic for fear of autolosing because of something that is probably a bug anyway.
Not the first time they've changed a mechanic due to future mechanics (secrets affecting on your turn, eaglehorn bows not triggering on opponent secrets, so on). This is yet another.
The changes you mentioned are either card text changes or just rule changes. This change changes a single interaction between two mechanics that previously was the logical conclusion of rules to now be a random exception to the rules. I don't find the situations comparable.
The linking factor is "game elements that change due to new elements being added in." That is, the way secrets worked was fine until new secrets were added. That sort of thing.
As for why they can do it? Same reason why minions and heros at 0 health can be healed back without dying if the heal happens at the right time. Because card games aren't built on logic. They are built on rules, which means they can change how mechanics and interactions work so long as such features are consistent.
And since MoP's mechanic is now a formal term-lifesteal-they get to dictate just how such a feature works, such as "Deal damage, then attempt to heal the hero, then stop." Honestly they could've reworked it into anything such as "Heal hero then deal damage." or "Damage, then heal, ignoring auchenai type effects."
So whether it makes logical sense really doesn't apply. It's a question of whether it's better for the game to have all lifesteal cards kill you when healing damages you or not.
Which then begs the question: what's the benefit in having such a feature happen?
Beyond surprising newbies with a feature that kills themselves in a way they wouldn't expect, I'm not sure especially when it's going to be a bit part of an expansion rather than two completely different class cards on the board at the same time.
OP you obviously are out of your mind if you think players will want to deal with this stupid shit every time they queue up with a priest for the sake of it making logical sense.
If you are talking only about MoP and not the possible interaction with the new Life Steal mechanic, then my answer changes to meh, because hardly anyone uses MoP in wild, let alone faces a guy with Auchenai, then attacks the fucking thing. Its a live and learn situation.
Don't try to argue shit like this because you're only going to get burned.
OP you obviously are out of your mind if you think players will want to deal with this stupid shit every time they queue up with a priest for the sake of it making logical sense.
If you are talking only about MoP and not the possible interaction with the new Life Steal mechanic, then my answer changes to meh, because hardly anyone uses MoP in wild, let alone faces a guy with Auchenai, then attacks the fucking thing. Its a live and learn situation.
Don't try to argue shit like this because you're only going to get burned.
Maybe you're the one who shouldn't try to argue shit because you have no idea what you're talking of. Auchenai Soulpriest. Check the wording. The interaction happens when the same player has Auchenai and the lifesteal card, and it kills the fucker who's stupid enough to play Auchenai and a lifesteal minion simultaneously, not the opponent. I personally wouldn't call a free win due to the opponent not knowing the rules dealing with stupid shit.
As for why they can do it? Same reason why minions and heros at 0 health can be healed back without dying if the heal happens at the right time. Because card games aren't built on logic. They are built on rules, which means they can change how mechanics and interactions work so long as such features are consistent.
Characters at 0 health being healed is logical because of the rules, because of in what prder the events in the game resolve. Card games, any games with rules, are built on logic. The rules are the premises, and interactions of multiple rules are their logical conclusions. As to the features being consistent, they're not in this scenario. When a card with lifesteal deals damage, it now heals your hero with a couple of exceptions that are randomly hard coded and are not explained by any other rules.
I'd be fine with some rules of the game being changed so that the interaction would no longer kill you, such as negative healing being considered different from dealing damage by the game (including other scenarios), or Auchenai being the one to deal damage, but hard coding specific interactions that break the game's own rules is not just a decision that affects that interaction, it's also an important design decision. Is this what we want from the game? Now it's just one situation that's being changed, but many years from now, do we want to have to memorize endless exceptions to the rules? Do we want new players to constantly play cards only to notice that the cards are functioning in ways they had no way of expecting?
It depends on how they are defining lifesteal. If they for example say "whenever this minion deals combat damage, then heal for..." it is unambigeous and logical that the negative heal doesn't trigger another one. But that definition isn't working for spells as well, so either they have two definitions or it has to be something else (and probably not fully consistent). But I have given up on the hope that Hearthstone wording will ever be fully clear on how thinks work out in the end. Simultaneously, I got used to the inconsitencies and I do not care.
Likewise here, I do not mind that they changed auchenaai the synergy of Auchenai Soulpriest and Mistress of pain (as far as I understood OP that has happened, has it?) Just another thing that has changed like many other nerfs changed the game as well. Besides, I actually never experienced it in game, so it will likely never matter anyway for me.
Change makes sense. What is more interesting is if you have Hallazeal the Ascended on the board and use a Lifesteal effect (spell or minion) then you get both the Lifesteal effect and Hallazeal's healing effect (doubt they will change Hallazeal's effect to read Lifesteal).
It was announced that the interaction of eg Auchenai and MoP doesn't kill you anymore. Imo the change is incredibly stupid. The interaction was fully logical so I see no reason to change it. Basically one of the effects now doesn't trigger when it should which is pretty much just a bug.
Why it's incredibly stupid? In your opinion is logical that hitting with MoP while Auchenai is on board kills you when it deals 1 dmg? It should take 1 health from you, not until you have -3.
Nice leading poll to support your opinion.
poll options are so confusing.
i think that interaction was fun, so don't like change
Without taking into philosophical to argue that anything that exists must be inherently logical...
Consider damage and heal as opposite and completely distinct concepts: in such a vision, negative healing is NOT damage, just negative healing. And vice versa.
Now, lifesteal applies damage and then equal healing. The auchenai inverts the sign of healing, making it negative. So it is negative healing, yet not damage (as we have just conceived it). Hence it cannot trigger itself again.
As you can see, the change is just as logical as the previous situation. And it avoids meme situations from becoming a common thing (making auchenai and embrace the shadows much less versatile), with the introduction of a widespread keyword.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
I think this was a needed change because Lifesteal might become a prominent mechanic now. It was fine when only two non-priest cards enabled the infinite damage loop, but now who knows how many more there will be?
I am sad about the change too, but regardless of logic, I think it was needed.
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health.
- Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
Wow. Those poll options are ridiculous. And sets up a false incongruity between a logic and intuition. Sometimes these push in the same way.
Lifesteal and "does damage, heal for that much" Are two different things. Lifesteal heals/does damage and stops. "Does damage, heal for that much" or whatever doesn't. I don't understand why you can't get that through your head. They are changing lifesteal like cards into normal lifesteal cards to avoid confusion. There will be no text saying "every time this minion hurts you, heal for that much" anymore, therefore whatever intuitive shit you are rambling about doesn't apply. I swear there are loke 12 of you bitching about this and the other 12 million hearthstone players either didn't know or thought it was a bug to begin with. Get over it.
Lifesteal= "Heal for damage caused."
"Whenever this minion does damage, heal for that much."
Two completely different mechanics, but keep fighting the good fight to make the game inconsistent with these two different mechanics both existing at the same time.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
"Making sense is more important than being intuitive"
Boy, open up a dictionary and tell me what being intuitive means.
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OP you obviously are out of your mind if you think players will want to deal with this stupid shit every time they queue up with a priest for the sake of it making logical sense.
If you are talking only about MoP and not the possible interaction with the new Life Steal mechanic, then my answer changes to meh, because hardly anyone uses MoP in wild, let alone faces a guy with Auchenai, then attacks the fucking thing. Its a live and learn situation.
Don't try to argue shit like this because you're only going to get burned.
It depends on how they are defining lifesteal. If they for example say "whenever this minion deals combat damage, then heal for..." it is unambigeous and logical that the negative heal doesn't trigger another one. But that definition isn't working for spells as well, so either they have two definitions or it has to be something else (and probably not fully consistent). But I have given up on the hope that Hearthstone wording will ever be fully clear on how thinks work out in the end. Simultaneously, I got used to the inconsitencies and I do not care.
Likewise here, I do not mind that they changed auchenaai the synergy of Auchenai Soulpriest and Mistress of pain (as far as I understood OP that has happened, has it?) Just another thing that has changed like many other nerfs changed the game as well. Besides, I actually never experienced it in game, so it will likely never matter anyway for me.
Change makes sense. What is more interesting is if you have Hallazeal the Ascended on the board and use a Lifesteal effect (spell or minion) then you get both the Lifesteal effect and Hallazeal's healing effect (doubt they will change Hallazeal's effect to read Lifesteal).