It feels like these cards are probably not even close to balanced but maybe I am missing something. There is no way to stop a person from reaching 10 attack on their cthun and most of the time it only takes dropping 2 "give your cthun +2/+2" battlecries to reach the condition. It is almost guaranteed you will have the condition met by the time you get a chance to play them. Anybody else feel like they need to be tweaked a bit?
I think there's a lot of deckbuilding around them though... if you flood your deck with c'thun buffers, yes, you get to 10 ATK C'thun very easily BUT you have a play-on-curve deck with few surprises.
The most interesting thing is how lots of decks are appearing now with _just enough_ C'thun buffers to get that 10 ATK bonus consistently but also having a proper deck as well :)
You hit on a very key point there. If these cards were limited to a strict deck archetype then they don't feel as absurd. But because the condition of 10 attack is so low you can just toss a few Beckoner of Evil in your deck and still get away with playing these.
I still think perhaps raising the attack requirement would make it so that they remain solid in the archetypes they are intended to be played and not allowing other decks to get the massive benefit almost for free.
I wonder if they're going to come out with more of these cards for newer expansions. The C'Thun decks feel really predictable with such a limited pool of cards to use with C'Thun, and I'm hoping maybe they will print some more in the future that can increase variety.
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The biggest issue is Twin Emperor Veklor. You can play him, C'thun, 2x Beckoner and 2x another C'thun buff and you have good early plays, a completely broken Dr. 7 plus a really powerful board clear on 10.
Still, the set is pretty awesome, tons of other things to play with. N'zoth is super powerful and already seeing Rogue, Paladin and Hunter decks built around him.
They aren't as powerful as one would think. Sure the effect of the individual card is strong, but the price is high. If someone tries to put 'just enough' C'Thun flavor in their deck for the Dr 7, they run the risk that that C'Thun followers are having a party at the bottom of the deck. In a true C'Thun deck, this isn't a problem because C'Thun will easily be 10+ by turn 7. It is similar to Reno decks, the heal is huge, but having only 1 Execute sucks.
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Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
I think they should increase the 10 attack requirement on some cards.. on the 4-5 cards it's ok.. on the vek'lor twins and the ancient shieldbearer it shoould be rised to 12 attack.
Emperor and shield bearer are total crap without the battlecry activating, and at least 1 full turn in the first 6 must be used to achieve the condition precedent to the battlecry.
Klaxxi requires a druid player to Mulligan for cthun cards rather than aggressively mulliganing for ramp cards. I think ramp is better for druid.
Seeing how strong the 'if your cthun has 10 atack' cards are.
AND seeing how strong the cthun decks are overall.
I think that cthun decks should be reinvented, cutting alot of the not needed minions. basing the deck more around the meta. and less around just buffing cthun and playing minions on curve.
They are amazing yet balanced, they don't even have to have c'tun in your deck to work but the stuff that buffs c'thun efficiently isn't exactly powerfuls tat-wise.
To clarify my position: I think they're fine as well, even Dr. 7 :) They are strong but not OP. Klaxxi is no different from Twilight Drake. Though with fewer board wipes and silences around, it does take some killing....
Not sure how people feel about this...but I just played a game against a C'Thun deck as control Pally and after my opponent played C'Thun, I reset its attack to 1. He played the priest 10 heal C'Thun card and got the heal, although the C'Thun is on board with 1 attack. Luckily I was able to win...but that's kind of bs, no?
Not sure how people feel about this...but I just played a game against a C'Thun deck as control Pally and after my opponent played C'Thun, I reset its attack to 1. He played the priest 10 heal C'Thun card and got the heal, although the C'Thun is on board with 1 attack. Luckily I was able to win...but that's kind of bs, no?
Yeah, that is not how I would expect the game to work, post that on the blizzard forums as a bug dude.
Not sure how people feel about this...but I just played a game against a C'Thun deck as control Pally and after my opponent played C'Thun, I reset its attack to 1. He played the priest 10 heal C'Thun card and got the heal, although the C'Thun is on board with 1 attack. Luckily I was able to win...but that's kind of bs, no?
The C'Thun buffs are tied to the player and not the minion itself, and has been clarified numerous times already.
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CDC #34, #3.07, #3.08 and Mini Competition #1 Finalist --- Click on the images below to check out my different custom card threads!
Not sure how people feel about this...but I just played a game against a C'Thun deck as control Pally and after my opponent played C'Thun, I reset its attack to 1. He played the priest 10 heal C'Thun card and got the heal, although the C'Thun is on board with 1 attack. Luckily I was able to win...but that's kind of bs, no?
Yeah, that is not how I would expect the game to work, post that on the blizzard forums as a bug dude.
It's probably working as "intended" (coded), but not as it SHOULD. Blizzard loves to cut corners with this kind of stuff, and C'thun's buffs are already on-hero not on-card so they persist after (card) death, so I'm sure they essentially have the check "If C'thunBuff >= 4, then use effect".
Not sure how people feel about this...but I just played a game against a C'Thun deck as control Pally and after my opponent played C'Thun, I reset its attack to 1. He played the priest 10 heal C'Thun card and got the heal, although the C'Thun is on board with 1 attack. Luckily I was able to win...but that's kind of bs, no?
The C'Thun buffs are tied to the player and not the minion itself, and has been clarified numerous times already.
Well that's a fail then, if you read the respective cards, you would expect it not to work. You shouldn't have to have read a tweet by Ben Brode or whoever said that that is how it works on purpose. LAME.
How weak of deck builders you guys must be to think that the cards are OK??If someone thinks that a good c'thun deck has all acolytes....well,then he's retarded...as retarded as the argument that a good tchun deck is weaker because the acolytes are subpar....a good t'chun deck does NOT have all acolytes,they are too weak,however a good cthun deck has just enough acolytes to activate the +10 buffs,they are op,it's a retarded archetype that blizz forced upon us ... just look at kripps CW video, he explains it perfectly ...the cthun 10+ minions are so OP that you CANNOT not play them in a control deck.
OP is right,the 10+ minions are NOT ok.
And,plebs,just look at the midrange decks out there...there are fucking no reliable midrange decks out there,you play hyper control,hyper aggro or you don't play at all....stupid meta w/o mid...gg blizz.
Not sure how people feel about this...but I just played a game against a C'Thun deck as control Pally and after my opponent played C'Thun, I reset its attack to 1. He played the priest 10 heal C'Thun card and got the heal, although the C'Thun is on board with 1 attack. Luckily I was able to win...but that's kind of bs, no?
The C'Thun buffs are tied to the player and not the minion itself, and has been clarified numerous times already.
Well that's a fail then, if you read the respective cards, you would expect it not to work. You shouldn't have to have read a tweet by Ben Brode or whoever said that that is how it works on purpose. LAME.
Well, the same could be said for a card like Lord Jaraxxus. It also doesn't explain how it interacts with other cards in it's text. Like you wouldn't assume Sacrificial Pact would work on it when in hero form, but it does. One should also be able to understand that C'Thun doesn't necessarily work like normal cards based on it's interactions.
It's all pretty much the result of the how hearthstone is designed to have such simple card texts, being only limited to 4 lines. Naturally, there are going to be some extremely vague interactions. Like in a thread I saw before, someone thought Justicar Trueheart shouldn't upgrade the hero power you get from Sir Finley Mrrgglton because it's not techincally your starting hero power.
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CDC #34, #3.07, #3.08 and Mini Competition #1 Finalist --- Click on the images below to check out my different custom card threads!
Not sure how people feel about this...but I just played a game against a C'Thun deck as control Pally and after my opponent played C'Thun, I reset its attack to 1. He played the priest 10 heal C'Thun card and got the heal, although the C'Thun is on board with 1 attack. Luckily I was able to win...but that's kind of bs, no?
The C'Thun buffs are tied to the player and not the minion itself, and has been clarified numerous times already.
Well that's a fail then, if you read the respective cards, you would expect it not to work. You shouldn't have to have read a tweet by Ben Brode or whoever said that that is how it works on purpose. LAME.
Well, the same could be said for a card like Lord Jaraxxus. It also doesn't explain how it interacts with other cards in it's text. Like you wouldn't assume Sacrificial Pact would work on it when in hero form, but it does. One should also be able to understand that C'Thun doesn't necessarily work like normal cards based on it's interactions.
It's all pretty much the result of the how hearthstone is designed to have such simple card texts, being only limited to 4 lines. Naturally, there are going to be some extremely vague interactions. Like in a thread I saw before, someone thought Justicar Trueheart shouldn't upgrade the hero power you get from Sir Finley Mrrgglton because it's not techincally your starting hero power.
The fact that Jar works with SP and not other demon buff cards is retarded,it's not ok and it's a mistake that blizz does not recognize,but they don't funking recognize any mistake they make...it's a broken,stupid and unreliable concept,either work with all or work with none,that is the norm and the fucking bastards are too lazy to comply,DO NOT try to argument a broken concept based of another broken concept.
It feels like these cards are probably not even close to balanced but maybe I am missing something. There is no way to stop a person from reaching 10 attack on their cthun and most of the time it only takes dropping 2 "give your cthun +2/+2" battlecries to reach the condition. It is almost guaranteed you will have the condition met by the time you get a chance to play them. Anybody else feel like they need to be tweaked a bit?
I think there's a lot of deckbuilding around them though... if you flood your deck with c'thun buffers, yes, you get to 10 ATK C'thun very easily BUT you have a play-on-curve deck with few surprises.
The most interesting thing is how lots of decks are appearing now with _just enough_ C'thun buffers to get that 10 ATK bonus consistently but also having a proper deck as well :)
Ibn Fahd.
You hit on a very key point there. If these cards were limited to a strict deck archetype then they don't feel as absurd. But because the condition of 10 attack is so low you can just toss a few Beckoner of Evil in your deck and still get away with playing these.
I still think perhaps raising the attack requirement would make it so that they remain solid in the archetypes they are intended to be played and not allowing other decks to get the massive benefit almost for free.
I wonder if they're going to come out with more of these cards for newer expansions. The C'Thun decks feel really predictable with such a limited pool of cards to use with C'Thun, and I'm hoping maybe they will print some more in the future that can increase variety.
CDC #34, #3.07, #3.08 and Mini Competition #1 Finalist ---
Click on the images below to check out my different custom card threads!
The biggest issue is Twin Emperor Veklor. You can play him, C'thun, 2x Beckoner and 2x another C'thun buff and you have good early plays, a completely broken Dr. 7 plus a really powerful board clear on 10.
Still, the set is pretty awesome, tons of other things to play with. N'zoth is super powerful and already seeing Rogue, Paladin and Hunter decks built around him.
Ibn Fahd.
They aren't as powerful as one would think. Sure the effect of the individual card is strong, but the price is high. If someone tries to put 'just enough' C'Thun flavor in their deck for the Dr 7, they run the risk that that C'Thun followers are having a party at the bottom of the deck. In a true C'Thun deck, this isn't a problem because C'Thun will easily be 10+ by turn 7. It is similar to Reno decks, the heal is huge, but having only 1 Execute sucks.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
I think they should increase the 10 attack requirement on some cards.. on the 4-5 cards it's ok.. on the vek'lor twins and the ancient shieldbearer it shoould be rised to 12 attack.
No they should not be tweaked.
Emperor and shield bearer are total crap without the battlecry activating, and at least 1 full turn in the first 6 must be used to achieve the condition precedent to the battlecry.
Klaxxi requires a druid player to Mulligan for cthun cards rather than aggressively mulliganing for ramp cards. I think ramp is better for druid.
The priest one is just a heal bot
Seeing how strong the 'if your cthun has 10 atack' cards are.
AND seeing how strong the cthun decks are overall.
I think that cthun decks should be reinvented, cutting alot of the not needed minions. basing the deck more around the meta. and less around just buffing cthun and playing minions on curve.
They are amazing yet balanced, they don't even have to have c'tun in your deck to work but the stuff that buffs c'thun efficiently isn't exactly powerfuls tat-wise.
To clarify my position: I think they're fine as well, even Dr. 7 :) They are strong but not OP. Klaxxi is no different from Twilight Drake. Though with fewer board wipes and silences around, it does take some killing....
Ibn Fahd.
Klaxxi need a tweak
Not sure how people feel about this...but I just played a game against a C'Thun deck as control Pally and after my opponent played C'Thun, I reset its attack to 1. He played the priest 10 heal C'Thun card and got the heal, although the C'Thun is on board with 1 attack. Luckily I was able to win...but that's kind of bs, no?
Ibn Fahd.
CDC #34, #3.07, #3.08 and Mini Competition #1 Finalist ---
Click on the images below to check out my different custom card threads!
Blizzard loves to cut corners with this kind of stuff, and C'thun's buffs are already on-hero not on-card so they persist after (card) death, so I'm sure they essentially have the check "If C'thunBuff >= 4, then use effect".
Ibn Fahd.
How weak of deck builders you guys must be to think that the cards are OK??If someone thinks that a good c'thun deck has all acolytes....well,then he's retarded...as retarded as the argument that a good tchun deck is weaker because the acolytes are subpar....a good t'chun deck does NOT have all acolytes,they are too weak,however a good cthun deck has just enough acolytes to activate the +10 buffs,they are op,it's a retarded archetype that blizz forced upon us ... just look at kripps CW video, he explains it perfectly ...the cthun 10+ minions are so OP that you CANNOT not play them in a control deck.
OP is right,the 10+ minions are NOT ok.
And,plebs,just look at the midrange decks out there...there are fucking no reliable midrange decks out there,you play hyper control,hyper aggro or you don't play at all....stupid meta w/o mid...gg blizz.
The 1st step towards a better game is firing Mike Donais! We had enough of his "skillful" balances!
#FireMikeDonais
CDC #34, #3.07, #3.08 and Mini Competition #1 Finalist ---
Click on the images below to check out my different custom card threads!
The 1st step towards a better game is firing Mike Donais! We had enough of his "skillful" balances!
#FireMikeDonais