It's a card that was iconic for Rouges back in vanilla; back in the days of Miracle; but it faded out.
However; the question arises: With Whispers of the Old Gods; could Edwin VanCleef come back? Because I was thinking, and things seem a lot more favorable for Edwin.
1: Big Game Hunter is now 5 mana. This means going big with Edwin is less risky, because BGH isn't as common anymore. Especially earlygame all-in ones.
3: Shadowcaster is disgusting on Edwin. 1 mana 1/1 Edwin? That is obscene. And it only costs 8 mana to set that up. You could quite easily set up a 4/4 or even 6/6 Edwin; Shadowcaster it and have a second Edwin in your pocket for later. Even if not used on Edwin himself; 1 mana 1/1's with probobly good effects are great for Edwin Combos.
4: Xaril, Poisoned Mind gives throwaway 1 mana cards which can only only buff up Edwin by being played for decent effects; but can also give Edwin Stealth without you having to play Conceal or Master of Disguise. This lets you make a big Edwin and potentially stealth it with Fadeleaf Toxin.
5: Tomb Pillager is still around; still good; and gives coins which can be used for Van Cleef.
6: Journey Below helps you discover the above two cards even if you're not running them.
7: The metagame will likely be slower; meaning getting to the stage where you can make a big Edwin play is more possible.
8: You can still Coin Edwin Turn 2 for a 4/4 [With Flamecannon gone that's pretty safe too now]; or get a good amount of tempo from something like Backstab Edwin early.
I dunno. It feels like Edwin VanCleef is a lot stronger with the rotation out and the nerf to BGH.
I do like your view on Edwin, but keep in mind of the generalized removal and who we expect to see at the top of the ladder. I'll reference the community's poll for the expected meta. Shaman, Rogue, Druid and Warrior. We expect a fast midrange deck from the shamans, and C'Thun from everyon else.
Warrior has many answers to Edwin, namely Execute, and Rogues can Sap or worse, Blade of C'Thun depending on how late it is. Druids lack the notable removal, and will try to slow him down with taunts. Lastly, Shaman could just outvalue you too quickly, as you exhaust 5 or so spells for a 10/10 Edwin and lose to a newly Evolved board or Hex.
These are the target points to 1. and 2. Just because no BGH does not mean no removal, so be smart when playing Edwin. I like your view on points 3 through 7, however. Edwin sounds quite viable on paper. Could easily play as an additional threat for some of the Rogue decks out there.
Lastly, point 8, Edwin doesn't die to Flamecannon in Standard, sure, but still dies to Eviscerate, Stormcrack, Shield Slam assuming the warrior just armored up, and Swipe albeit a bit late. So likewise, be cautious with your bomb. But good luck getting a 1 mana Edwin! :D
I'm not saying he's without flaws. Every large minion is vulnerable to removal. Except maybe an absolutely giant C'Thun that wins with his battlecry. Obviously people will run removal still; but it will usually cost more than 3 mana [Execute costs a 2 for 1; for example].
Against an aggressive Shaman you can just throw him out on Turn 2 or 3 as a 4/4 [Coin or Backstab]. I'm not sure Stormcrack will be run when it is a Lightling Bolt that costs 1 more and loses face potential for 1 extra damage. I'd think for early removal and face damage flexibility a Shaman would be far more likely to run Stormforged Axe and Rockbiter Weapon; since both can go face and Axe can deal with 3/2's.
Currently Edwin sees no play. I'm not saying 'build a deck around Edwin.' Edwin wasn't the core of Miracle Rouge. But I'm asking; with these factors working in his favor; could Edwin return to seeing play?
If priest or Shaman sees more play, doubtful. Priest can destroy it with Shadow Word: Death (and some might even use Silence in Standard or maybe in an Reno-type deck), Shaman has Earth Shock. Also the BGH-Nerf does not really effect the meta: it's still playable, and Edvin is mostly an minion that is played as a 4/4 or as a really big minion, but this require more mana than the 3 he costs.
I like the way you think. In the end though I think players will have tools in their decks to deal with Edwin, especially late game, but he might at least go from not being played at all, to seeing some use as a threat other players need to be aware of in Rogue decks, especially early/mid game. Using some of the cheap Rogue cards to clear enemy threats and then plomping out an Edwin for them to deal with on top might force plays or give good value.
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Best case scenario is to play Edwin as a 6/6 on turn 5. he can draw some attention and maybe give you good early tempo. trying to build Edwin into a monster will often leave you pissed off after your opponent deletes him.
Edwin van Cleef is still best Rogue Legendary imo. But I don't see how Rogue can be playable now neither in Wild neither in Standard. Currently Rogue is one of the worst classes, and completely out of meta. With new expansion there is no Rogue cards which can significantly boost him, and Blade Flurry nerf hurts a lot.
Edwin van Cleef is still best Rogue Legendary imo. But I don't see how Rogue can be playable now neither in Wild neither in Standard. Currently Rogue is one of the worst classes, and completely out of meta. With new expansion there is no Rogue cards which can significantly boost him, and Blade Flurry nerf hurts a lot.
Someone doesn't understand the power of Shadowstepping C'Thun...
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The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.
Edwin van Cleef is still best Rogue Legendary imo. But I don't see how Rogue can be playable now neither in Wild neither in Standard. Currently Rogue is one of the worst classes, and completely out of meta. With new expansion there is no Rogue cards which can significantly boost him, and Blade Flurry nerf hurts a lot.
Someone doesn't understand the power of Shadowstepping C'Thun...
It's a card that was iconic for Rouges back in vanilla; back in the days of Miracle; but it faded out.
However; the question arises: With Whispers of the Old Gods; could Edwin VanCleef come back? Because I was thinking, and things seem a lot more favorable for Edwin.
1: Big Game Hunter is now 5 mana. This means going big with Edwin is less risky, because BGH isn't as common anymore. Especially earlygame all-in ones.
2: Silence is going to be rarer between the nerf of Keeper of the Grove and Ironbeak Owl. Silence hard countered Edwin.
3: Shadowcaster is disgusting on Edwin. 1 mana 1/1 Edwin? That is obscene. And it only costs 8 mana to set that up. You could quite easily set up a 4/4 or even 6/6 Edwin; Shadowcaster it and have a second Edwin in your pocket for later. Even if not used on Edwin himself; 1 mana 1/1's with probobly good effects are great for Edwin Combos.
4: Xaril, Poisoned Mind gives throwaway 1 mana cards which can only only buff up Edwin by being played for decent effects; but can also give Edwin Stealth without you having to play Conceal or Master of Disguise. This lets you make a big Edwin and potentially stealth it with Fadeleaf Toxin.
5: Tomb Pillager is still around; still good; and gives coins which can be used for Van Cleef.
6: Journey Below helps you discover the above two cards even if you're not running them.
7: The metagame will likely be slower; meaning getting to the stage where you can make a big Edwin play is more possible.
8: You can still Coin Edwin Turn 2 for a 4/4 [With Flamecannon gone that's pretty safe too now]; or get a good amount of tempo from something like Backstab Edwin early.
I dunno. It feels like Edwin VanCleef is a lot stronger with the rotation out and the nerf to BGH.
Current Deck -http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/240420-army-paladin - Token Paladin
I do like your view on Edwin, but keep in mind of the generalized removal and who we expect to see at the top of the ladder. I'll reference the community's poll for the expected meta. Shaman, Rogue, Druid and Warrior. We expect a fast midrange deck from the shamans, and C'Thun from everyon else.
Warrior has many answers to Edwin, namely Execute, and Rogues can Sap or worse, Blade of C'Thun depending on how late it is. Druids lack the notable removal, and will try to slow him down with taunts. Lastly, Shaman could just outvalue you too quickly, as you exhaust 5 or so spells for a 10/10 Edwin and lose to a newly Evolved board or Hex.
These are the target points to 1. and 2. Just because no BGH does not mean no removal, so be smart when playing Edwin. I like your view on points 3 through 7, however. Edwin sounds quite viable on paper. Could easily play as an additional threat for some of the Rogue decks out there.
Lastly, point 8, Edwin doesn't die to Flamecannon in Standard, sure, but still dies to Eviscerate, Stormcrack, Shield Slam assuming the warrior just armored up, and Swipe albeit a bit late. So likewise, be cautious with your bomb. But good luck getting a 1 mana Edwin! :D
The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.
I'm not saying he's without flaws. Every large minion is vulnerable to removal. Except maybe an absolutely giant C'Thun that wins with his battlecry. Obviously people will run removal still; but it will usually cost more than 3 mana [Execute costs a 2 for 1; for example].
Against an aggressive Shaman you can just throw him out on Turn 2 or 3 as a 4/4 [Coin or Backstab]. I'm not sure Stormcrack will be run when it is a Lightling Bolt that costs 1 more and loses face potential for 1 extra damage. I'd think for early removal and face damage flexibility a Shaman would be far more likely to run Stormforged Axe and Rockbiter Weapon; since both can go face and Axe can deal with 3/2's.
Currently Edwin sees no play. I'm not saying 'build a deck around Edwin.' Edwin wasn't the core of Miracle Rouge. But I'm asking; with these factors working in his favor; could Edwin return to seeing play?
Current Deck -http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/240420-army-paladin - Token Paladin
If priest or Shaman sees more play, doubtful. Priest can destroy it with Shadow Word: Death (and some might even use Silence in Standard or maybe in an Reno-type deck), Shaman has Earth Shock. Also the BGH-Nerf does not really effect the meta: it's still playable, and Edvin is mostly an minion that is played as a 4/4 or as a really big minion, but this require more mana than the 3 he costs.
I like the way you think. In the end though I think players will have tools in their decks to deal with Edwin, especially late game, but he might at least go from not being played at all, to seeing some use as a threat other players need to be aware of in Rogue decks, especially early/mid game. Using some of the cheap Rogue cards to clear enemy threats and then plomping out an Edwin for them to deal with on top might force plays or give good value.
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Better get ready to be called a lapdog, then
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
Best case scenario is to play Edwin as a 6/6 on turn 5. he can draw some attention and maybe give you good early tempo. trying to build Edwin into a monster will often leave you pissed off after your opponent deletes him.
I definitely will try Edwin in a midrange deathrattle rogue deck...
Ibn Fahd.
Edwin van Cleef is still best Rogue Legendary imo. But I don't see how Rogue can be playable now neither in Wild neither in Standard. Currently Rogue is one of the worst classes, and completely out of meta. With new expansion there is no Rogue cards which can significantly boost him, and Blade Flurry nerf hurts a lot.
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Someone doesn't understand the power of Shadowstepping C'Thun...
The Roshambo to Hearthstone. Please be nice. Don't insult or be mad at someone for throwing Rock.
Hall of Fame (ignore list): aleathas, Baylith, cendol, DiamondDM13, Dominieq, doomr, glitterprincess, hamtarofr, Heck, Jwigg33, Kaladin, Krewger, Legend_Entomber, libertyprime, Maukiepaukie, PandarenHero, randjob, s2mikey, SchruteBucks, The_Giratina, TheWamts, ticandtac, tictactucroc, tsudecimo, WaffleMonstr