If you're not the one playing Murlocs, it's pretty common to get second place against someone who is, and it's pretty frustrating knowing your minions are in for an unfair fight.
I think the main culprit is Poison/Divine Shield, and I think there should be at least one other way to trump it, beyond Unstable Ghoul or your own Divine Shield minions. Here are my suggestions:
Fight fire with fire: Perhaps Poison should be introduced into another minion type like Beasts (which have historically had poison minions), or a neutral minion?
Equip that weapon: Maybe there could be a fragile minion with a Supercollider effect?
My pet mongoose: Would a minion with Immunity to poison be unwarranted? It makes sense there would be some Beasts or Mechs that would shrug off the key word.
Battlegrounds is a fun and different mode to help pass the time between expansions for me, and I think it's in a great spot. The game can always be improved and without removing the Poison key word, I think there are other options that could solve what I think is problem with the format.
i think poison murloc is very highroll, its the same getting dragons with +100 hp , or pirates with infinite gold , beasts goldring+baron and all of them are highroll , if you get the murlocs too late you can die vs other builds, if you get early you are deserved top1, same with any of the other comps
baron beast isnt highroll at all, see 1/3 games since macaw. There is only specific dragon that gets that large. There is a pirate neutral with similar potential. Shudderwock or the murloc guy playing murlocs is op af. If youre neither and you get bran, it can get just as ridiculous. I feel like I should never see a minion with 100 hp. Thats just stupid.
Games without Murloc as a tribe have been the most diverse and fun recently.
And Murloc isn't strictly all that high-roll anymore. You don't need big-stated murlocs to win anymore, divine shield + poison and a bit of stats is enough. I've won multiple times without Brann even. The past 50 games have been AT LEAST 90-100 Murlocs in the top 4, if not more with Murlocs presumably winning like 40-45 of those games. It's nuts.
Games without Murloc as a tribe have been the most diverse and fun recently.
And Murloc isn't strictly all that high-roll anymore. You don't need big-stated murlocs to win anymore, divine shield + poison and a bit of stats is enough. I've won multiple times without Brann even. The past 50 games have been AT LEAST 90-100 Murlocs in the top 4, if not more with Murlocs presumably winning like 40-45 of those games. It's nuts.
I agree. A few players often go for Murlocs when they are available, meaning the ones with bad luck (i.e. no good murlocs) quickly fall behind. But that one murloc player that manages to survive very often wins the whole thing. If they get ahold of a Brann, then it's usually a done deal. I lose to murlocs more than any other tribe.
It seems to me like the divine shield poison murloc build is best because it undermines every other strategy. It doesn’t matter how big your minions get, they die first attack. This really goes counter to pirates, demons, beasts and mech strategy. The only possibly viable counter is dragons with Nadina, but more often than not it becomes a push. It would be nice if megasaur lost poison, keep if for the toxfin.
I wonder if there's a misdiagnosed problem. My sense is that in a lot of earlier metagames, forcing Murlocs often didn't work, because you'd die first. These days, it seems like more Murloc-forcers are able to survive into the late game.
So is it that Murlocs are too strong (they were always very strong if they got everything together!), but maybe the problem is that the midgame isn't as punishing. The stuff that used to kill Murloc players before they had Poison/Divine Shield active might be too weak.
I wonder if there's a misdiagnosed problem. My sense is that in a lot of earlier metagames, forcing Murlocs often didn't work, because you'd die first. These days, it seems like more Murloc-forcers are able to survive into the late game.
So is it that Murlocs are too strong (they were always very strong if they got everything together!), but maybe the problem is that the midgame isn't as punishing. The stuff that used to kill Murloc players before they had Poison/Divine Shield active might be too weak.
It's hard to tell exactly what it is that makes Murlocs to strong. Even with Holy Mackerel being removed, they are somehow better than ever. The one saving grace is that sometimes they are not included in the game.
I'm fine with the poison/divine shield combo of the late game, there should just be other ways around it than having a huge minion with divine shield.
I wonder if there's a misdiagnosed problem. My sense is that in a lot of earlier metagames, forcing Murlocs often didn't work, because you'd die first. These days, it seems like more Murloc-forcers are able to survive into the late game.
So is it that Murlocs are too strong (they were always very strong if they got everything together!), but maybe the problem is that the midgame isn't as punishing. The stuff that used to kill Murloc players before they had Poison/Divine Shield active might be too weak.
I feel a lot comes from the fact that Brann isn't really worth it in a lot of other builds atm. Classic mangerie is hardly an end-game build anymore and is replaced by Goldgrubber-builds. Mechs might as well not exist at this point of the game, since they are utter shit and most people won't pick them or transition away from them around tavern 5 and other builds don't really require Brann, leaving it up for all the Murloc players to it pick up.
That's not the only reason, but one I heavily noticed. Whenever I force Murlocs, I get a Brann very, very often.
The other reason is that games are way too fast, leaving other end-game builds in the dust. Scaling builds like Dragons can hardy take off before it's over and Pirates fizzle out during end game anyway. That leaves forced demons and beast builds as other options most of the time, and both of them still lose to Murlocs.
So yeah, I'd very much like for Murlocs to take a breather and get removed entirely and then return in a more well-rounded package. They also need to do something about mechs. A good new self-scaling t5 mech card can go along way. I mean the beast equivalent to Junkbot is a fucking TAVERN 1 card... why is the mech one a tavern 5 again? It's ridiculous. In the past 400 games I have seen exactly 0 people play him. Must have the lowest pick-rate out of any card in the pool I'd bet. Plus you get heavily discouraged from running token-based builds against Pirates and Beasts.
I wonder if there's a misdiagnosed problem. My sense is that in a lot of earlier metagames, forcing Murlocs often didn't work, because you'd die first. These days, it seems like more Murloc-forcers are able to survive into the late game.
The Problem is that Pirates are kinda Highrollie either, nearly noone goes for the "Old-Shool" Beast build with rats , Packleaders, Highmane etc. And PPL avoiding Mech too because the feel not that strong, (just if you get enough Buffs obviously, and that means you need much luck too) So all the Midrange builds that where popular before, are seen as kinda "losing Play" atm, so Murlocs=Profit
I already made 200000 QQ Threads about it, since Pirate Patch Day. And somehow its getting worse and worse. Im at 9300 and I see Lobbys with freaking 5 Murloc Players including myself. And noone is changing Minions^^ stubborn like a Mule,everyone highrolling and Praying. (coz obvoisly if you have at least 1 of the better Murloc in Shop, youre obviously got Direction xD) Oh Boy itsucks and kills a lot of Diversity, but you have to join the Club and you climb faster then ever before.....
If you're not the one playing Murlocs, it's pretty common to get second place against someone who is, and it's pretty frustrating knowing your minions are in for an unfair fight.
I think the main culprit is Poison/Divine Shield, and I think there should be at least one other way to trump it, beyond Unstable Ghoul or your own Divine Shield minions. Here are my suggestions:
Fight fire with fire: Perhaps Poison should be introduced into another minion type like Beasts (which have historically had poison minions), or a neutral minion?
Equip that weapon: Maybe there could be a fragile minion with a Supercollider effect?
My pet mongoose: Would a minion with Immunity to poison be unwarranted? It makes sense there would be some Beasts or Mechs that would shrug off the key word.
Battlegrounds is a fun and different mode to help pass the time between expansions for me, and I think it's in a great spot. The game can always be improved and without removing the Poison key word, I think there are other options that could solve what I think is problem with the format.
i think poison murloc is very highroll, its the same getting dragons with +100 hp , or pirates with infinite gold , beasts goldring+baron and all of them are highroll , if you get the murlocs too late you can die vs other builds, if you get early you are deserved top1, same with any of the other comps
baron beast isnt highroll at all, see 1/3 games since macaw. There is only specific dragon that gets that large. There is a pirate neutral with similar potential. Shudderwock or the murloc guy playing murlocs is op af. If youre neither and you get bran, it can get just as ridiculous. I feel like I should never see a minion with 100 hp. Thats just stupid.
Fun > Meta
Games without Murloc as a tribe have been the most diverse and fun recently.
And Murloc isn't strictly all that high-roll anymore. You don't need big-stated murlocs to win anymore, divine shield + poison and a bit of stats is enough. I've won multiple times without Brann even. The past 50 games have been AT LEAST 90-100 Murlocs in the top 4, if not more with Murlocs presumably winning like 40-45 of those games. It's nuts.
Ghoul + Nadina + Big Dragons beats Murlocs everytime but it is pretty rare to get that.
I agree. A few players often go for Murlocs when they are available, meaning the ones with bad luck (i.e. no good murlocs) quickly fall behind. But that one murloc player that manages to survive very often wins the whole thing. If they get ahold of a Brann, then it's usually a done deal. I lose to murlocs more than any other tribe.
It seems to me like the divine shield poison murloc build is best because it undermines every other strategy. It doesn’t matter how big your minions get, they die first attack. This really goes counter to pirates, demons, beasts and mech strategy. The only possibly viable counter is dragons with Nadina, but more often than not it becomes a push. It would be nice if megasaur lost poison, keep if for the toxfin.
I wonder if there's a misdiagnosed problem. My sense is that in a lot of earlier metagames, forcing Murlocs often didn't work, because you'd die first. These days, it seems like more Murloc-forcers are able to survive into the late game.
So is it that Murlocs are too strong (they were always very strong if they got everything together!), but maybe the problem is that the midgame isn't as punishing. The stuff that used to kill Murloc players before they had Poison/Divine Shield active might be too weak.
It's hard to tell exactly what it is that makes Murlocs to strong. Even with Holy Mackerel being removed, they are somehow better than ever. The one saving grace is that sometimes they are not included in the game.
I'm fine with the poison/divine shield combo of the late game, there should just be other ways around it than having a huge minion with divine shield.
I feel a lot comes from the fact that Brann isn't really worth it in a lot of other builds atm. Classic mangerie is hardly an end-game build anymore and is replaced by Goldgrubber-builds. Mechs might as well not exist at this point of the game, since they are utter shit and most people won't pick them or transition away from them around tavern 5 and other builds don't really require Brann, leaving it up for all the Murloc players to it pick up.
That's not the only reason, but one I heavily noticed. Whenever I force Murlocs, I get a Brann very, very often.
The other reason is that games are way too fast, leaving other end-game builds in the dust. Scaling builds like Dragons can hardy take off before it's over and Pirates fizzle out during end game anyway. That leaves forced demons and beast builds as other options most of the time, and both of them still lose to Murlocs.
So yeah, I'd very much like for Murlocs to take a breather and get removed entirely and then return in a more well-rounded package. They also need to do something about mechs. A good new self-scaling t5 mech card can go along way. I mean the beast equivalent to Junkbot is a fucking TAVERN 1 card... why is the mech one a tavern 5 again? It's ridiculous. In the past 400 games I have seen exactly 0 people play him. Must have the lowest pick-rate out of any card in the pool I'd bet. Plus you get heavily discouraged from running token-based builds against Pirates and Beasts.
The Problem is that Pirates are kinda Highrollie either, nearly noone goes for the "Old-Shool" Beast build with rats , Packleaders, Highmane etc.
And PPL avoiding Mech too because the feel not that strong, (just if you get enough Buffs obviously, and that means you need much luck too)
So all the Midrange builds that where popular before, are seen as kinda "losing Play" atm, so Murlocs=Profit
I already made 200000 QQ Threads about it, since Pirate Patch Day. And somehow its getting worse and worse.
Im at 9300 and I see Lobbys with freaking 5 Murloc Players including myself. And noone is changing Minions^^ stubborn like a Mule,everyone highrolling and Praying. (coz obvoisly if you have at least 1 of the better Murloc in Shop, youre obviously got Direction xD)
Oh Boy itsucks and kills a lot of Diversity, but you have to join the Club and you climb faster then ever before.....
I can only play mechs as pyramid guy and even then, it's far riskier strat than demons, pirates, murlocs, or dragons.
Fun > Meta