I'm sure we can all mostly agree by now during 3ed week, afew of the cards turned out a lot better than we thought, but we've all focused on the cards.
The heroic level of this Adventure is easier than some of the Naxx and black rock regulars. A huge disappointment to me. We can mostly all agree for Naxx and black rock we had to net deck, and even then it took the right timing and cards and abit of thought and a lot of luck on the side of rng to pull it off.
Just this week, on wing 3, 47 mins after it was released I bet regular, side challenges, and the heroic... For the first two I used reg ole N'zoth pally, for illhoof obviously warrior with two brawls, a lot of aoe, and taunts. All one shot. - Without much effort, and only had to make one custom deck, the warrior.
I personally believe blizz is heading hearthstone into the same direction as WoW, during vannila WoW it was a lot harder took more teamwork and a lot of trail and error etc. But after Lich King WoW became a joke once Activision got involved. Free epics for everyone, all bosses tank n spank, and so forth ( Which is after being a endgame raider (MT and Healer As warrior and Pally ) since Vannila. - Point being you should feel some sort of accomplishment after beating the heroics, not "oh look a free cardback" you get a free cardback each month don't need another freebie.
Yeah, owning a huge pool of cards makes it even easier too. I was annoyed because LoE also had the too easy problem, but since the whole adventure was TONS of fun, including creative stages such as temple escape, I just dismissed that problem and considered the whole thing much more than worth it. This time however I'm absolutely not amused.
Yeah, owning a huge pool of cards makes it even easier too. I was annoyed because LoE also had the too easy problem, but since the whole adventure was TONS of fun, including creative stages such as temple escape, I just dismissed that problem and considered the whole thing much more than worth it. This time however I'm absolutely not amused.
Couldn't agree more, aside from the cardpool at least on this adventure. Nothing extreme needed just reg ole ladder decks.
1. There are already such threads. Go cry there, instead creating a new one.
2. What exactly sort of "acomplishment" you feel after hitting perfect rng in order to win? You said yourself - we all had to netdeck and hit the right combination of cards to win. Yes, this is true - that's exactly what heroic naxx and brm were. You had to netdeck, then you had to draw those 2 or 3 cards within your first few draws and you were good to go. If not - concede, try again. Sure, such a challenge - netdeck a deck, then restart the boss 20 times till you have a hand that can beat it. So skillful.
3. We had tons of cards to play with. It's obviously much ahrder to create a boss that won't have easy counters amongst so many possible combination of cards. And still such boss have to not only be hard, but also unique and interesting, because if not, then people like would be creating threads "Kara so boring".
47mins vs hours for a wing, more time for what you paid for. And cards have not been an issue for this wing, and it's easily countered with bosses that generate cards for you or have preset decks. The cardpool would not be an issue there. And it's the same accomplishment you feel after anything that requires TIME invested, you finally got it.
I'm sure we can all mostly agree by now during 3ed week, afew of the cards turned out a lot better than we thought, but we've all focused on the cards.
The heroic level of this Adventure is easier than some of the Naxx and black rock regulars. A huge disappointment to me. We can mostly all agree for Naxx and black rock we had to net deck, and even then it took the right timing and cards and abit of thought and a lot of luck on the side of rng to pull it off.
Just this week, on wing 3, 47 mins after it was released I bet regular, side challenges, and the heroic... For the first two I used reg ole N'zoth pally, for illhoof obviously warrior with two brawls, a lot of aoe, and taunts. All one shot. - Without much effort, and only had to make one custom deck, the warrior.
I personally believe blizz is heading hearthstone into the same direction as WoW, during vannila WoW it was a lot harder took more teamwork and a lot of trail and error etc. But after Lich King WoW became a joke once Activision got involved. Free epics for everyone, all bosses tank n spank, and so forth ( Which is after being a endgame raider (MT and Healer As warrior and Pally ) since Vannila. - Point being you should feel some sort of accomplishment after beating the heroics, not "oh look a free cardback" you get a free cardback each month don't need another freebie.
Stop. It.
Let me destroy your arguments if you wouldn't mind...
First of all, Hearthstone is a PvP cardgame first and foremost. This means that of course folks will focus on the vocal point of these expansions - call them what you want, they expand the available cardpool, they are expansions.
So why is it that the adventures matter even in the first place? Because adding just a few small cards here and there that you have to pay for, either in time (gold) or money (cash) would make these cards very simple and boring. You pay a few bucks and voilá you got more cards. This isn't making use of the fact that Hearthstone is a digital cardgame, as in... you can add really anything to any small expansion of cards to spice things up.
But that's the full extent of it. The challenge in these adventures is not a focus point for Blizzard nor would they... they are there to expand the cardpool and not be exceedingly boring when doing so.
Secondly, the challenge in any PvE encounter in Hearthstone is about the deckbuilding challenge. Why? Because... how 'challanging' to just press 'restart' or as you would do in the past, concede, go back to the screen, do the battle again and rince and repeat.
NONE of the adventures have ever been difficult nor on Heroic or Normal. Nor should they nor can they be unless you force the player in a very unusual where skill, logic and critical thinking matters more than the deckbuilding aspect and even then... you have the reststart function. So what is such an example? The chess event. Litterally the only even remotely challanging encounter to this date for the simple fact of the matter that you need to think before doing anything, not just play cards willy-nilly.
And finally...
Fuck off. Vanilla WoW took longer but was far easier than the game has ever been. How can I say this? Because once again, the difficulty didn't come in the execution of the game it came in how you set it up! You had to organize 40 people to show up with gear, potions, knowledge of what to do and many, many, MANY more things than that.
TBC was a step in the right direction as the attunement process had been tuned down and simplified but not to the point where things became obsolete.
So please... if you want to make a thread that doesn't paint you as an idiot, please at least have a solid argument to begin with.
Hearthstone is a PvP game foremost, the PvE encounters have ALWAYS been stupidly easy, WoW is going both in a good direction and bad direction. Bad in that guilds aren't promoted as much as cesspool guilds, good in that folks like you quit the game since long ago.
It's MY personal belief as I stated, I'm entitled to it, just as you are. But the difference being I wasn't foul mouthed or attacking anybody. I think it's too easy for the aspect of the game ( I ) enjoy most. It's not an argument, it's my thoughts. Yes it's pvp foremost, but WoW has been a blend of both since Vannlia.
Heroic naxx and brm required a lot of persistence and near perfect card sequencing to get right. It was a pain in the ass, but it meant that having the card back felt like an achievement, and it was actually pretty rare to see them early after release
Everyone and his dog at rank 15 seemed to have the LOE heroic back the following week after the last wing was released, which kinda killed any sense of showing it off. I wouldn't be surprised if you're seeing the Karazhan heroic card back all over rank 20 a couple of hours after the last wing opens.
I'm sure we can all mostly agree by now during 3ed week, afew of the cards turned out a lot better than we thought, but we've all focused on the cards.
The heroic level of this Adventure is easier than some of the Naxx and black rock regulars. A huge disappointment to me. We can mostly all agree for Naxx and black rock we had to net deck, and even then it took the right timing and cards and abit of thought and a lot of luck on the side of rng to pull it off.
Just this week, on wing 3, 47 mins after it was released I bet regular, side challenges, and the heroic... For the first two I used reg ole N'zoth pally, for illhoof obviously warrior with two brawls, a lot of aoe, and taunts. All one shot. - Without much effort, and only had to make one custom deck, the warrior.
I personally believe blizz is heading hearthstone into the same direction as WoW, during vannila WoW it was a lot harder took more teamwork and a lot of trail and error etc. But after Lich King WoW became a joke once Activision got involved. Free epics for everyone, all bosses tank n spank, and so forth ( Which is after being a endgame raider (MT and Healer As warrior and Pally ) since Vannila. - Point being you should feel some sort of accomplishment after beating the heroics, not "oh look a free cardback" you get a free cardback each month don't need another freebie.
Stop. It.
Let me destroy your arguments if you wouldn't mind...
First of all, Hearthstone is a PvP cardgame first and foremost. This means that of course folks will focus on the vocal point of these expansions - call them what you want, they expand the available cardpool, they are expansions.
So why is it that the adventures matter even in the first place? Because adding just a few small cards here and there that you have to pay for, either in time (gold) or money (cash) would make these cards very simple and boring. You pay a few bucks and voilá you got more cards. This isn't making use of the fact that Hearthstone is a digital cardgame, as in... you can add really anything to any small expansion of cards to spice things up.
But that's the full extent of it. The challenge in these adventures is not a focus point for Blizzard nor would they... they are there to expand the cardpool and not be exceedingly boring when doing so.
Secondly, the challenge in any PvE encounter in Hearthstone is about the deckbuilding challenge. Why? Because... how 'challanging' to just press 'restart' or as you would do in the past, concede, go back to the screen, do the battle again and rince and repeat.
NONE of the adventures have ever been difficult nor on Heroic or Normal. Nor should they nor can they be unless you force the player in a very unusual where skill, logic and critical thinking matters more than the deckbuilding aspect and even then... you have the reststart function. So what is such an example? The chess event. Litterally the only even remotely challanging encounter to this date for the simple fact of the matter that you need to think before doing anything, not just play cards willy-nilly.
And finally...
Fuck off. Vanilla WoW took longer but was far easier than the game has ever been. How can I say this? Because once again, the difficulty didn't come in the execution of the game it came in how you set it up! You had to organize 40 people to show up with gear, potions, knowledge of what to do and many, many, MANY more things than that.
TBC was a step in the right direction as the attunement process had been tuned down and simplified but not to the point where things became obsolete.
So please... if you want to make a thread that doesn't paint you as an idiot, please at least have a solid argument to begin with.
Hearthstone is a PvP game foremost, the PvE encounters have ALWAYS been stupidly easy, WoW is going both in a good direction and bad direction. Bad in that guilds aren't promoted as much as cesspool guilds, good in that folks like you quit the game since long ago.
I think that you will find a lot of people here who had played Naxx and Brm on heroic difficulty when those adventures came and who would disagree with your statement that PVE encounters have always been stupidly easy. Naxx paladin class challenge was so insanely difficult that Blizzard had to nerf it after community outcry that it can't be beaten. Naxx heroic is still the most difficult heroic adventure in the entire game with bosses ranging from brutal to downright unfair. With the cards that we had when those adventures came out it was a pain in the ass to beat heroic mode, especially with Naxx.
So no, PVE encounters haven't always been easy in Hearthstone. They became easy when LoE came, but they were at least fun.
And before painting yourself like a retard and telling others that they should have a proper argument, you should check your own arguments because your entire argument is this ''Game is not hard because you can restart the challenge if you're not doing too well. Also Blizzard doesn't care about the challenge PVE aspect, why would they, I know because I say so.''
Game is not challenging because if you're not winning you can simply start over. Amazing argument. Thank you for sharing this with us. Everybody in this thread is now dumber for having to read that. The only thing that you've ''destroyed'' this way is your own credibility. Good job!
Bravo, I deferred from pointing all the obvious out but I'm glad somebody did.
Then please define "difficulty" because the only difficulty I have ever encountered in a PvE event, game or any of its like has been one of two things:
1. Difficulty by natural reactions
OR;
2. Difficulty by execution
A good way to put it is like this: compare a game like Super Mario where the difficulty is in the precision platforming. Its not a difficult game per say yet to master it, you require pin-point accuracy. This requires practice and talent to perform. This is a 'natural reaction' when you have learned a certain behaviour that leads to an immediate reaction, another good example of this type of games is FPS games.
However...
Can you make the argument that in a cardgame where RNG goes as deep as in just the notion that you can't control your resources? That you can't control your draw makes cardgames natively reliant to RNG. Where the only 'skill' is in limiting the RNG to be as beneficial as possible in the most circumstances as possible for you.
This is why you can treat Hearthstone's adventures with a little bit of a rogue-lite take on it; you can get fucked over by RNG completely. And the bosses in Naxx were bloody cruel yes, but cruel and punishing mechanics doesn't make a fight more difficult - it makes the fight harder to complete something which we have already established that for something like a 'natural reaction', is completely irrelevant. You CAN still complete the encounter if you could rely on reliable mechanics but cardgames are fabled as everything but 'reliable'. They are games of math where probability steer the course of victory far more than anything else in the entire game.
So yes... because of the restart function which means you can just throw your head at the same thing over and over again... you CAN and SHOULD expect different results because you will draw differently, your opponent will play differently and nothing is 'fair'. Its a fight of probability not skill which means that you cannot create a cardgame-based skill-intesive PvE-encounter unless you rely on other mechanics that are reliable. Hand of Fate is a bloody brilliant example of this where you can get screwed over royally... but the fighting and actual encounters still are in the control of the player. Starting over is because you failed the encounter, not because you randomly didn't succeed.
There's a HUGE difference between failing to succeed and failing. And if you don't believe me you can look just below in my signature and ponder over what Thomas Edison really meant when he said that.
Very valid point, I believe my take on the difficulty is a aspect of the time needed, and preparing for the inevitable rng to counter it not something that the entire deck can do I.E being illhoof deck full of aoes you win, I'd rather a game plan that requires you into turn 10 planing it out turn by turn, and countering any rng once you've played it afew times and know what to prepare for.
Heroic naxx and brm required a lot of persistence and near perfect card sequencing to get right. It was a pain in the ass, but it meant that having the card back felt like an achievement, and it was actually pretty rare to see them early after release
Everyone and his dog at rank 15 seemed to have the LOE heroic back the following week after the last wing was released, which kinda killed any sense of showing it off. I wouldn't be surprised if you're seeing the Karazhan heroic card back all over rank 20 a couple of hours after the last wing opens.
Don't worry, "everyone and his dog" won't be able to beat chess. It actually does require some thinking (and not that much rng, thank God). I won't even be surpised if after week 4 we start seeing threads like "Beaten entire heroic Kara, except chess, help!" etc. And best thing about it is there is no perfect solution, none guide will help you if you simply don't learn how to play the challenge and for obvios reasons there are no decklists you can netdeck. So you can be sure Kara cardback won't be THAT common.
What is it with this chess? I've beaten it on the first try. Then I came here and saw that everyone was crying how difficult it is so I gave it another go and beaten it again. Is there something that I am not aware of?
I actually found it challenging. It took me 4 tries to beat, but what is more important is that I actually had to think during the challenge. I know how it sounds, but yeah, all other bosses in basically every expansion were pretty much mindless. Chess isn't. So even though it's still not that hard for good players, seeing outcry it generated already, I'd say bad players won't clear it easily.
There was a video out how to beat heroic chest about a hour after release, showed you where to place you're bishop, and only need one in starting hand, then follow his moves and you won.
That's not the only way Hearthstone is becoming like WoW. Instead of putting their best foot forward and making as many cards as possible in the expansion useful, they've just made it "good enough" to make people say "Fuck it" and plop down $20 to stay up with the meta. I really thought League of Explorers was a step in the right direction, especially considering how good the legendary cards were and how many cards created entirely new types of decks. But this is a huge step back. Makes me wish I bought the adventure with that Amazon scam.
Heroic saphiron was harder than this entire adventure combined so far, which doesnt mean it s bad , i would say its the best one yet, just too easy ,cleared like half of it with zoo.. On hc
Heroic naxx and brm required a lot of persistence and near perfect card sequencing to get right. It was a pain in the ass, but it meant that having the card back felt like an achievement, and it was actually pretty rare to see them early after release
Everyone and his dog at rank 15 seemed to have the LOE heroic back the following week after the last wing was released, which kinda killed any sense of showing it off. I wouldn't be surprised if you're seeing the Karazhan heroic card back all over rank 20 a couple of hours after the last wing opens.
Yeah that'll be me.
Will use that or stay with my legend card back at rank 15 while I log in to do my quests on the toilet.
Edit: no idea why wows being brought up here the difficulty was killed not by the expansions but by add one, vanilla had close to no mechanics whereas now they're much more difficult take wrought of chaos on Archimonde (beams shoot out from everyone in the raid) these abilities are made a joke by weak auras.
I'm sure vanilla would be a joke now if we had these tools like weak auras, angry assigns, warcraft logs...
The bosses are not hard when you're taking them on with the card collection you've accumulated since playing before naxx. However the bosses do provide a bit of a challenge when you don't have access to every card which is pretty fun to come up with differant ways to beat them.
If this is the aspect you enjoy the most just get creative take them on using 0 legendaries, or only cards with an odd mana cost. They can be as fun as challenging as you like.
The card back doesn't need to be for the greatest of players that's why we have pro tournament/team, and the legend card backs for.
I've replayed heroic Medivh vs Malchezaar many times over when I'm in the mood for a puzzle but not feeling competitive, just like the Tavern Brawls where you work together with someone to beat a boss. Granted, I've long since figured out the secrets to said puzzles but the joy lies not in whether I can win but how and to what extent.
The most important thing for the solo quests is that they be enjoyable and provide replay value, which usually necessitates some difficulty and/or clever play. It's a fine line and probably difficult to come up with, but I do believe that type of gameplay is largely untapped on the developers part and well worth it to explore.
Heroic naxx and brm required a lot of persistence and near perfect card sequencing to get right. It was a pain in the ass, but it meant that having the card back felt like an achievement, and it was actually pretty rare to see them early after release
Everyone and his dog at rank 15 seemed to have the LOE heroic back the following week after the last wing was released, which kinda killed any sense of showing it off. I wouldn't be surprised if you're seeing the Karazhan heroic card back all over rank 20 a couple of hours after the last wing opens.
Don't worry, "everyone and his dog" won't be able to beat chess. It actually does require some thinking (and not that much rng, thank God). I won't even be surpised if after week 4 we start seeing threads like "Beaten entire heroic Kara, except chess, help!" etc. And best thing about it is there is no perfect solution, none guide will help you if you simply don't learn how to play the challenge and for obvios reasons there are no decklists you can netdeck. So you can be sure Kara cardback won't be THAT common.
What is it with this chess? I've beaten it on the first try. Then I came here and saw that everyone was crying how difficult it is so I gave it another go and beaten it again. Is there something that I am not aware of?
I actually found it challenging. It took me 4 tries to beat, but what is more important is that I actually had to think during the challenge. I know how it sounds, but yeah, all other bosses in basically every expansion were pretty much mindless. Chess isn't. So even though it's still not that hard for good players, seeing outcry it generated already, I'd say bad players won't clear it easily.
I don't understand why people are having difficulty with Heroic Chess. It was probably one of the easiest. I beat it my first try. Maybe people should learn how to play chess and accumulate a strategy on how to beat it.
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I'm sure we can all mostly agree by now during 3ed week, afew of the cards turned out a lot better than we thought, but we've all focused on the cards.
The heroic level of this Adventure is easier than some of the Naxx and black rock regulars. A huge disappointment to me. We can mostly all agree for Naxx and black rock we had to net deck, and even then it took the right timing and cards and abit of thought and a lot of luck on the side of rng to pull it off.
Just this week, on wing 3, 47 mins after it was released I bet regular, side challenges, and the heroic... For the first two I used reg ole N'zoth pally, for illhoof obviously warrior with two brawls, a lot of aoe, and taunts. All one shot. - Without much effort, and only had to make one custom deck, the warrior.
I personally believe blizz is heading hearthstone into the same direction as WoW, during vannila WoW it was a lot harder took more teamwork and a lot of trail and error etc. But after Lich King WoW became a joke once Activision got involved. Free epics for everyone, all bosses tank n spank, and so forth ( Which is after being a endgame raider (MT and Healer As warrior and Pally ) since Vannila. - Point being you should feel some sort of accomplishment after beating the heroics, not "oh look a free cardback" you get a free cardback each month don't need another freebie.
Yeah, owning a huge pool of cards makes it even easier too. I was annoyed because LoE also had the too easy problem, but since the whole adventure was TONS of fun, including creative stages such as temple escape, I just dismissed that problem and considered the whole thing much more than worth it. This time however I'm absolutely not amused.
I agree too. There is no challenge here, you can one-shot everything just looking at the boss hero Power, it's boring.
if you wanna challange don't use epic and legendary cards. it's more fun that way ;)
Heroic naxx and brm required a lot of persistence and near perfect card sequencing to get right. It was a pain in the ass, but it meant that having the card back felt like an achievement, and it was actually pretty rare to see them early after release
Everyone and his dog at rank 15 seemed to have the LOE heroic back the following week after the last wing was released, which kinda killed any sense of showing it off. I wouldn't be surprised if you're seeing the Karazhan heroic card back all over rank 20 a couple of hours after the last wing opens.
Chess is hard
Can someone tell me difference between Normal Nightbane and Heroic Nightbane? Other than the obvious HP tho.
...There is just no way that happens...
(It happens)
That's not the only way Hearthstone is becoming like WoW. Instead of putting their best foot forward and making as many cards as possible in the expansion useful, they've just made it "good enough" to make people say "Fuck it" and plop down $20 to stay up with the meta. I really thought League of Explorers was a step in the right direction, especially considering how good the legendary cards were and how many cards created entirely new types of decks. But this is a huge step back. Makes me wish I bought the adventure with that Amazon scam.
Heroic saphiron was harder than this entire adventure combined so far, which doesnt mean it s bad , i would say its the best one yet, just too easy ,cleared like half of it with zoo.. On hc
I've replayed heroic Medivh vs Malchezaar many times over when I'm in the mood for a puzzle but not feeling competitive, just like the Tavern Brawls where you work together with someone to beat a boss. Granted, I've long since figured out the secrets to said puzzles but the joy lies not in whether I can win but how and to what extent.
The most important thing for the solo quests is that they be enjoyable and provide replay value, which usually necessitates some difficulty and/or clever play. It's a fine line and probably difficult to come up with, but I do believe that type of gameplay is largely untapped on the developers part and well worth it to explore.