[Hunter Meta] Belcher Miracle Rogue *UPDATED*
- Last updated Sep 12, 2014 (Naxx Launch)
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Wild
- 12 Minions
- 18 Spells
- Deck Type: Ranked Deck
- Deck Archetype: Unknown
- Crafting Cost: 6480
- Dust Needed: Loading Collection
- Created: 9/3/2014 (Naxx Launch)
- user-14052254
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Battle Tag:
Divenire#2551
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Region:
EU
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Total Deck Rating
142
Hello guys, I'm HexOnTheBeach. I really love playing miracle rogue but sadly I felt that it's too weak in this heavy hunter meta as many of you probably have already found out. So, I tried to make some changes and even if they seem minor they really improved my winrate vs hunter(and other classes) and that's the reason I wanted to share this deck with you and made this post.
Note: Do not forget to read the updates(in the end of the post).
I took out cards like Cold Blood, Sinister Strike and Edwin VanCleef because I think they are really weak vs hunter at the moment. The reason of cutting out Edwin VanCleef is that there are plenty of ways Hunters can deal with him like Hunter's Mark, Freezing Trap, Deadly Shot, Ironbeak Owl. However, he is so strong card in other matchups and can be good even vs hunter if you play around those cards and can win games by his own so I recently added him to the deck(look updates). Cold Blood and Sinister Strike are mostly dead cards without Gadgetzan Auctioneer and even if they can provide some nice burst they really hurt the deck's consistency.
I added Sludge Belcher, a really strong card (in my opinion the strongest naxx card) that gives you time and space to get the cards you need and make the opponent have a really hard time removing it as it leaves a taunted 1/2 body. Also, compared to Edwin VanCleef this card can be played alone without the need of combos thus it adds more consistency to the deck.
This is the deck I'm currently using to get Legend once more.
You can check my stream if you want to: http://www.twitch.tv/hexonthebeach
Any feedback/suggestions will be much appreciated and/or if you have any questions feel free to ask me, I'll be just glad to help.
Sorry for the long post but I wanted to justify my choices.
Also, don't forget to upvote(+1) the deck if you like it. Thanks!
Updates
[10/9/2014]: · +1 Azure Drake -1 [card]Loot Hoarder[/card]
· +1Earthen Ring Farseer -1 Sludge Belcher
· +1 Fan of Knives -1 Loot Hoarder
[08/9/2014]: · +1 Loot Hoarder -1 Azure Drake
· + Edwin VanCleef -1 Cold Blood
· +1 Shiv -1 Fan of Knives
Reason: · The Loot Hoarders are used for 3 reasons; a) as an early minion to help against aggro(trades well with Mad Scientist and Haunted Creeper), b) to replace the card draw lost by cutting the drake(s) c) lower the curve.
· Edwin VanCleef is so strong card in almost every matchup if you play around the cards that counter him. I added him because he can really win games by his own. You can always replace him with Cold Blood if you don't have him.
· Even though Fan of Knives is a great card in the current meta I prefer Shiv over it because with the addition of the Loot Hoarders our board can be a lot better in the early game so also Shiv can be played on turn 2 for cycling followed by a Dagger Mastery + Deadly Poison.
[05/9/2014]: +1 Loot Hoarder -1 Shiv
Reason: I think Shiv is a weak spell and having more board early presence without losing the card draw seems nice. It's also handy when trading Mad Scientist or Haunted Creeper.
[04/9/2014]: +1 Cold Blood -1 Earthen Ring Farseer
Reason: Even if the deck is OK vs Hunters I think it lacks some damage vs Warriors/Paladins and can be better this way. The extra heal is nice but I think Sludge Belchers are enough to prevent most of the damage and survive until you get your combo.
25% win rate, GG.
As an avid hunter I would suggest not relying too much on the belcher. Rogues have not been much of a problem for me to take down at all. Silencing the belcher is pretty much my main use for Owls against rogues. Since I am less than 60 wins from my golden hero now I'll be swapping to new class to build and will probably be rogue, since have lots of fun playin them too. Multiple taunts with at least 2 health slows down hunters more than anything else atm. Giving adjacent minions taunt seems to work rather well. 2 cards to make 4 taunts, and only 2 owls to silence them with. Just a thought.
Since most hunters aren't using Deadly Shot anymore, and since rogues don't use secrets therefor hunters don't mulligan for flare vs them, Shade of Naxxramas goes long way early game too. Had a druid use Shade on me on turn 1 and wasn't able to deal with it til right after he attacked with it on turn 6, happened to get flare right after that, go figure.
I'm kind of liking one Sap and two Sludge Belchers. I feel like 2 saps is a bit much considering not much handlock or zoo on the ladder at the moment, and there are a lot of other ways to deal with big taunt minions.
Most people seem to be replacing LJ with Arcane Golem, running 2 Cold Bloods and replacing Loatheb with a Faceless Manipulator, it's an interesting variation because Faceless Manipulator and Cold Blood take a lot of the work off of Shadowstep to be used for burst so you can Shadowstep your other minions pretty aggressively.
Would Gnomish Inventor work as the best replacement for Edwin VanCleef in your opinion? This deck has no turn 4 plays besides Leeroy Jenkins, which is obviously saved for finishing the opponent. (Some people suggest Questing Adventurer due to a similar effect, but I think he builds up way too slowly in comparison.)
Yeah, thanks a bunch for the explanation. I've heard various opinions on how necessary Edwin VanCleef is for Miracle. Some say it's going to help you win a lot more games on the high-end of the ladder, some think it's often just silence bait; guess it just depends on the meta.
I'll try playing Shade of Naxxramas instead. I can see it working pretty well with stuff like Cold Blood and the etc.
Hello, I'm glad you are trying miracle. Your deck seems pretty solid. However the changes I would suggest are:
-1 Sen'jin Shieldmasta +1 Sludge Belcher
-1 Loot Hoarder +1 Fan of Knives
-1 Gnomish +1 Sludge Belcher
x2 Sludge Belchers are so good vs the hunter matchup that I wouldn't cut out(you can use x1 senjin or x1 azure instead of one I guess). As for the Shade I haven't tested it out yet so got no real info about it.
A 4 drop would be really nice but the deck is still strong even without.
In my experience Fan of Knives is really better atm. Just so many sticky minions with 1hp that fan takes care of.
As for the Cold Blood, it's not needed atm but you can still cut something for it. Wouldn't do it though. The assassins blade provides lots of damage but we already got many 5 drops that are needed more than this.
Latest changes is exacly what I am playing right now ^^
I think the 1 / 1 split between Sludge Belcher and Azure Drake is a good idea!
Yeah, I guess the deck has a pretty standard form right now.
Been using Miracle on ladder a lot in the Zoo, Hunter, Warrior meta but I've been using the Sen'jin Shieldmasta and Shade of Naxxramas list without Sludge Belcher and Edwin Vancleef. I've tried the Sludge Belcher list and the main problem I keep encountering is that either the mana curve at 5 is too crowded, which you addressed by removing Azure Drakes, or your Shivs and Fan of Knives are too weak without spell power to really affect the board state. For aggro, Azure Drake is a "virtual Taunt" because they either have to kill it or risk a turn of 2 damage Fan of Knives, Shivs etc. so a lot of the times you're just trading one Taunt for "another" vs Zoo. We're not really living in the days of Argent Squire and Young Priestess in Zoo any more, getting to 2 damage with Fan of Knives and Shiv really matters. The real sticking point for Sen'jin Shieldmasta is that he fills the 4 mana slot and some times works as a Conceal for Gadgetzaan Engineer on curve.
Regarding Edwin Vancleef, man he is such a gamble right now that I don't think he's worth it vs anything but Zoo, just being terrible in the Hunter match up is a pretty huge sin right now and between Freezing Trap, Mad Scientist, Hunters Mark and the odd Ironbeak Owl it just has little to no value. Shade of Naxxramas is just consistent value that lets you play a win condition that doesn't involve you going all in, I really think you should mess around with it instead or in addition to just to appreciate how good it is right now.
Ok, I think if you're playing Loot Hoarder something has to be wrong about how the deck uses its mana, because the typical T2 is for Daggers and trading with parity against Mad Scientist or Haunted Creeper really isn't going to get you ahead in the match. You may want to cut that slot altogether and try out Gnomish Inventor so you can actually use your 4 mana slot for something really useful and get ahead on the board. Maybe you're spending your T4 between either a combination of Daggers, Loot Hoarder and Shiv tho'?
Anyway sorry for all of the criticism, I'm not trying to get you to play my variant of Miracle but just wanted to point out some of the problems I've ran across with this list when I was testing on ladder. I think you should mess around with your list tho' and try out some of those card choices, even if it's just something adding Gnomish Inventor over Loot Hoarder or cutting a spell and the last Earthen Ring Farseer for a couple of Shades of Naxxramas.
Thanks a lot for your comment man. Really appreciate your effort. I took your thoughts into account and proceeded with some changes.
What could replace/sub for Bloodmage and Edwin? I would love to try the deck.
I am terribly sorry! I did not read it thoroughly.
I don't think those substitutions are foregone, Loot Hoarder isn't really a replacement for Bloodmage Thalnos because Bloodmage Thalnos isn't actually a 2 drop as opposed to a combo card to play in conjuction with removal, and I fail to see how Edwin Vancleef and Cold Blood are even remotely related to each other in this deck.
If you have two slots spare in the deck from not having the legendaries, I really, really, really recommend you get cards into your 4 drop slot like Sen'jin Shieldmasta, Violete Teacher or Gnomish Invetor, but if you want the extra win condition Violete Teacher or Shade of Naxxramas are both reasonable subs for Edwin Vancleef.
Miracles is always a flexible archetype and you shouldn't think in terms of black or white card substitutions with it, I do all kinds of crazy shit like play the Acolyte of Pain, Crazed Pyromancer version or Violete Teacher, Coldlight Oracle or the Malygos version on ladder just for kicks. As long as you understand what the core class spells are and how the engine works you can put your own stamp on the deck. It also really depends on what match ups your facing, like Sen'jin Shieldmasta, Earthen Ring Farseer and Edwin Vancleef make a ton of sense if you're playing vs nothing but Zoo, but vs Warrior control they look pretty stupid. Just have a reason for what you play and you'll be alright.
Yeah you can replace 1 Sludge for a Tazdingo. It will definitely smooth the curve. I think the deck is a lot flexible.
Not sure how Baron Rivendare is relevant with this build...
like u update it, its going much better, also like edwin here thx update a lot. great work keep it up
Thanks a lot! I'll try to..
Cold Blood is a bad card in Miracle Rogue because it back loads into burst damage most of the time, the trouble with healing classes is best addressed by increasing the number of damage sources in the deck i.e. just playing a couple more minions that can get in for a few points of damage here and there.
There are also non obvious ways of increasing damage done, for instance a second Conceal probaly guarantess more damage than a Cold Blood because you're gaining roughly 5 mana in order to cycle thru' spells on your following turn and can chain into damage or you can just burn a conceal on a minion that would be removed otherwise and get in an attack next turn thanks to Stealth. The Violete Teacher versions of Miracle tend to run the 2nd Conceal fwiw because it gets in like ~5 damage with Coin on the following turn plus lets you shit tokens with 5 mana open.
The card is just generally bad, try to stick with more flexible options like the 2nd Conceal or Shivs so you aren't stuck with binary plays.