Hearthpwn

I couldn't grasp this deck's mechanism. A freeze needs draw and a few specific cards (Emperor, Alex, Antonidas etc.) in a particular order to pull of the damage combo. Throwing in the forgotten torches makes it much more difficult to draw the right cards. Actually it adds two more cards and it reduces the chances of drawing the most important ones. Another cost would be the trade-offs made -- replacing other spells/minions for the above mentioned two cards. Basically, you're making your life harder adding more drawing rng into the mix. And for what? Additional damage? But good old classic freeze mage already had the required damage, if it followed the combo.

Quote from DanielSecara >>

I couldn't grasp this deck's mechanism. A freeze needs draw and a few specific cards (Emperor, Alex, Antonidas etc.) in a particular order to pull of the damage combo. Throwing in the forgotten torches makes it much more difficult to draw the right cards. Actually it adds two more cards and it reduces the chances of drawing the most important ones. Another cost would be the trade-offs made -- replacing other spells/minions for the above mentioned two cards. Basically, you're making your life harder adding more drawing rng into the mix. And for what? Additional damage? But good old classic freeze mage already had the required damage, if it followed the combo.

If you remove minions with the torch, that means the decks gets bigger (2 cards in total). That reduces the chances to draw important cards like Alexe, Emperor or Antonidas. Why would you want that? :))

Currently testing this deck. The Forgotten Torch comes in handy against aggro. But I am still not sure if like this card in Freeze Mage. With Freeze-Mage we are trying to cycle in order to get the cards necessary. Playing Forgotten Torch, puts a card back in the deck, effectivley reversing a draw. Is reducing the chance to draw Archmage Antonidas or Alexstrasza really worth it?

I find it's a great card at the moment, running it at a one tech at least. It means we have more viable active removal spells that we don't have to worry about using as much. Using frostbolts early on can be a bit awkward- using  a Forgotten torch instead is definitely great, and it doubles up as the x2 Fireballs that used to be run before. One extra card might be added to the deck, but this deck does run 2 loot hoarder. So it kind of balances out really. But I've found Forgotten torches to really help.

I simply feel like this card is simply a frostbold with a fireball shuffled in your deck again. I love it. Great early against aggro, you dont have to waste your frostbolt and we have 3 fireballs now!

Y'all don't get it do you? it's all about value. And this deck is butthurt to play against as a zoolock player

Freeze Mage is pretty good against Reno Jackson because you can usually wait until after your opponent plays Reno Jackson and then Alexstrasza your opponent, thus mitigating the health gain from Reno Jackson. This is why I think Alexstrasza is of high priority right now.

Why do people upvote only because Thijs plays it?

Probably because it's a really nice deck. Why so sour?

What does that even mean?  He should add monsters in to counter the exact same deck, effectively making this something completely different than freeze mage?

"Yeah your control warrior is good, but it's lacking ways to deal with control warriors" 

WTF?

I dunno, he might be referring to grinder deck with majordomo or something.

There are ten pairs of duplicate cards in this deck. It would have to be a very different deck to have Reno. Having created numerous Reno decks now, your best off having no more than 2 pairs of cards in the deck if you want the odds of him being an effective win condition. 

no

Why not?  These changes work really well for Reno Jackson, you can even -1 Loot Hoarder +1 Novice Engineer

11 cards in this deck have a duplicate. The odds of you drawing AND using these exact 11 cards in an efficient and useful way, and then playing your 6 mana Reno before an agro deck burns you into dust is extremely low. Especially if you are replacing card draw to do it.  In most cases you are wanting to combo your spells or save them for antonidas, you cant do that if you are desperately trying to find / use them all to play reno.

Forgotten torch is a removal + damage in any combination. It also can feed antonidas and has more synergy with bloodmage. It replaces pyroblast. 

Just my thoughts. I'm currently top 50 legend with reno control warrior, the card can definitely be good, but not with this specific deck.

Just no.

Freeze mage goes to fatigue more often than any other deck except fatigue warrior or dumb shit like that. Also, it has a lot of staying power on its own, but can still find itself at low life during the final few turns of the game. Reno is not actually a bad card in these decks. Try it before you knock it, people. I'm speaking from experience.