Subtlety - Control Rogue!
- Last updated Sep 25, 2015 (TGT Launch)
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Wild
- 17 Minions
- 13 Spells
- Deck Type: Ranked Deck
- Deck Archetype: Unknown
- Crafting Cost: 13060
- Dust Needed: Loading Collection
- Created: 9/19/2015 (TGT Launch)
- user-5725431
- Registered User
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- 4
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Battle Tag:
Achelon#2866
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Region:
EU
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Total Deck Rating
197
24/09/2015 - WE MADE IT TO THE FRONT PAGE!! OMFG, THANK YOU SO MUCH GUYS, I'VE NEVER THOUGHT THAT MY EXPERIMENT, THIS CRAZY IDEA I HAD AND WORKED IN FOR SO MUCH TIME, WOULD EVER REACH FRONT PAGE ON HEARTHPWN. I REALLY REALLY APPRECIATE ALL YOUR SUPPORT, ALL YOUR COMMENTS AND HELP, SINCE NOW IT'S NOT MY DECK, BUT IT'S OUR DECK.
IN ORDER TO SHOW MY GRATITUDE TO ALL OF YOU, I'M GONNA DO A VIDEOGUIDE FOR THE DECK WITH SOME GAMES AGAINST THE COMMON DECKS SO YOU CAN SEE IN A MORE INTERACTIVE WAY HOW TO PLAY WITH IT AND HOW IT WORKS.
AGAIN, THANKS A LOT!!!
22/09/2015 - I can't believe how much support are you all giving me and my deck!! 31 upvotes!! As promised, I've updated the "What if I don't have..." section.
20/09/2015 - Thanks for all your support guys!!! 10 upvotes in just one night!! Please, keep helping me reaching the perfection for this deck!!
Hi everyone, I'm Achelon, a casual player, that loves to create new decks, different to what everyone plays and is currently being played in the meta.
But let's stop with all that bla bla bla, and let's go with the deck:
SUBTETLY ROGUE - A CONTROL DECK GUIDE by Achelon
Well, first let's talk about the origins. I came up with this idea 3 or 4 months ago, tired of having to play Control Priest or Control Warrior to be able to face all those tempo, midranges and aggotards decks I was facing when trying to climb the ladder.
I always played Control Shaman until it became absolutely garbage and had to delete the deck, from that moment onwards, I was always trying new decks (always control decks), looking for "that" deck, the one it felt perfect for me.
Considering that Rogues are my fav class ever in every game, not only WoW, but other MMORPG, RPGs or even action games, I decided to take the step and build a deck that could face anything.
I started with a basic idea: "I need small and cheap creatures combined with cheap spells to clean the early board, and then, some big threats on late game to push the game and get the kill". Basically, the common idea for a control deck.
Before TGT release, the deck was doing fine, but on midgame lost everything since I didn't had weapons to stop the rush or at least, slow the enemy tempo. Thanks to TGT, that's finally solved and I (and you all who decide to play it) have a perfect deck.
Let's talk now about the cards:
CARDS
SPELLS
-Backstab: Basic include. For 0 a 2 damage spell it's our answer to stop from the very beginning all those turn 1-2-3 rushes from the aggro decks. In addittion, thanks to being 0 cost, it's perfect to combo him with SI:7 Agent or Defias Ringleader.
-Deadly Poison: Another card that doesn't need to be explained. +2 damage to our weapon for 1 mana? Give me 2 please. Same as Backstab, it's perfect to combo early game with SI:7 Agent, Defias Ringleader or Eviscerate. Two are a must for the best board clear with Blade Flurry.
-Blade Flurry: I only play one copy because we already have enough board clean with our creatures, Backstab, Eviscerate and the Dark Iron Skulker. Save Blade Flurry always for those moments when you are not getting the cards you need or even to finish the enemy with face + blade.
-Eviscerate: Another card that is a must in the deck. 2 damage for 2 mana, with the easy possibility to make it into a 4 damage for 2 mana. In addition, we can direct it not only to creatures but to face too. Always try to combo it, but if you have a good hand for the next 2-3 turns, you can use it as a 2 damage.
-Burgle: Ok, this card has a trick. People don't really seem to like or play it, but it's amazing. This card gives us 2 random CARDS from the enemy class. Not enemy deck. Not spells. Not creatures. 2 fucking random cards. For example, facing Warriors it hasn't been only one or two times when I've gotten Grommash, Gorehowl and other amazing cards. Really guys, play it, you can't even imagine how many times it will save you the game.
-Fan of Knives: Same as every 1 copy of other removals. We already have enough board clear. I mainly got one copy because of the draw.
-Sabotage: Why not Assassinate Achelon? It's easy. It's not hard to combo a Sabotage and if you are smart, you'll leave only one creature on the board and at the same time you will destroy the weapon.
-Sprint: Our late game card draw. With this deck sometimes you were finding yourself in the late game with only 1 or 2 cards in the hand. Sprint solve that problem and gives us the last push to keep controlling the game.
Ok, those are the spells we play in our deck, now let's talk about the creatures:
CREATURES
-Bloodmage Thalnos: Swaped one Skulker for Thalnos to improve the draw and combo with Blade Flurry or Eviscerate for better removals.
-Cutpurse: Ok, this guy is amazing. Not only because of the insane amount of coins he gives us if you protect him, but because he always will eat some removal. If he gets it, our big boys won't! Don't fear to Coin him on Turn 1. Even if he only gives you a single Coin and then dies, it will be worth.
-Defias Ringleader: Our main threat against aggro decks and our main early creature. Always Coin+Defias on turn 1 or Backstab+Defias on turn 2. Except if you have no other option, never play it withou the combo.
-SI:7 Agent: One of our early-mid threats. Don't fear to play him without the combo if you need to, in the end, it's a 3/3 for 3 mana. But it's when combo'ed when he shines. Backstab + SI:7 Agent will take care of any 3/4 life creatures and make the tempo of the game be in our favor.
-Kezan Kystic: Since the meta at the moment is full of paladin, mage and huntards with secrets, Kezan Mystic has been really helpful stealing one of them in a crucial moment.
-Antique Healbot: Nothing to say. 8hp and a 3/3 body talks by himself.
-Big Game Hunter: A 4/2 body for 3 mana and we can get rid of that annoying Dr. Balanced or Ragnaros.
-Loatheb: I don't need to say a thing about this guy. 5 mana for a 5/5 that absolutely freezes the enemy spell play the next turn.
-Dark Iron Skulker: One of our biggest board clearers if not the main one. For 5 mana we have a 4/3 body that does 2 damage to all enemy undamaged minions. You know what to do then, right? Don't damage enemy minions if you are not gonna kill them.
-Sunwalker: For one mor mana than Sludge we have a 4/5 body with Divine Shield.
-The Black Knight: Sometimes, we need to use too many things to get rid of an annoying taunt (I'm looking at you Tirion Fordring). The Black Knight just solves that. Don't use it too lightly, study the enemy deck, and try to save him for when you can get the most value of the dead taunt.
-Dr. Boom: He's not called Dr. Balanced for anything. He's just too op and cannot be ignored. 7/7 with two bombs for 7 mana!
-Troggzor the Earthinator: An amazing guy. A 6/6 body for 7 mana, and each time the enemy uses a spell we have a 3/5 guy that gets +2 damage each time the enemy plays a spell. This guys completely stops the enemy from using spells, and even if they use a removal for him, we get a 3/5 than can still grow into a big threat.
-Ragnaros the Firelord: Our big guy. Everyone knows him. It's a big threat because you cannot silence him or you'll have to deal with a 8/8. Only way to get rid of him is to use a big removal or BGH, and by the time we play him, with all the threats we have, the enemy probably won't have anything to deal with him.
-Anub'arak: Our second big guy. A 8/4 body immortal except if the enemy silence him. It's just a pain in the ass in the late game since you gotta chose to remove him and give us a 4/4 and see him again next turn or just leave him alone and eat 8 damage each turn.
Ok, now that we have already seen every card, let's talk about gameplay:
GAMEPLAY
Ok, let's face it, Control decks are not easy to play. We don't stop the enemy face like aggrotards. We don't play a wombo-combo when we reach X turn and stom the enemy face like Patron or Druids. We don't play one card and #yolo the enemy like Secret Paladin. No, our "plays" start at turn 1 and end when the enemy dies. It's a long and slow process, and a single mistake can turn the game around.
FIRST TURNS
On the first 1-3 turns, our priority is to clean the enemy board with Backstab, SI:7 Agent and exchanges with combo'ed Defias Ringleader while we get precious Coin thanks to Cutpurse. Play Beneath the Grounds and Burgle as soon as you can to presure the enemy with their unknown cards or three possible 4/4 in their decks for us.
MID GAME
Ok, we have reached turn 4, from now on until turn 7, aggro decks should be nearly done for, so it's time to slow the tempo of the game in our favor and reach the late game. Loatheb and Trade Prince Gallywix will be our anti-spell-tempo cards. Play them if you know it's coming the moment for a combo. Dark Iron Skulker time will come when the enemy has a full board (Aggro Paladin, Mages). Anub'ar Ambusher will start to shine comboing him with our SI:7 or Defias to refill the board with creatures. Now it's also time to combo our Eviscerate. Don't be scared to attack with Weapon+Deadly Posion and receive some damage, we have Antique Healbot for that.
LATE GAME
Ok, if you have done everything fine, your board should have a Gallywix having a party with one or two more friendly minions and the enemy board should be either clean or with 1 minion. It's time to play Troggzor and Anub'arak and finish this. Both of them are a big threat. Troggzor will give us more annoying minions if the enemy try to clear our board or kill our minions with spells, and Anub'arak is immortal if not silenced.
But hear me now, don't forget that we are not an aggro deck. Always control the enemy board. It's better to clean their two minions than to play Anub.
MULLIGAN
There are common cards that we will always look for in our starting hand.
These are Defias Ringleader, Backstab and Cutpurse.
Other good options are SI:7 Agent, Eviscerate and Deadly Poison. Don't be scared to turn 2 weapon, turn 3 Deadly Poison into Eviscerate and autoattack.
However, there are specific cards that we may prefer against some specific decks.
Aggro decks (Huntards, Aggrodin): Try to get the Dark Iron Skulker or Bloodmage Thalnos + Fan of Knives/Blade Flurry.
Combo Druid: Loatheb and Cutpurse are a must. If he plays Emperero Thaurissan, remember how many times he reduced the cost and play Loatheb accordingly. Playing Loatheb on turn 4 is good too to slow the Swipe plays so we still control the board.
WHAT IF I DON'T HAVE...
Ok, so I'm the first one that knows that this is not a cheap deck, but if you don't have or don't wanna craft some cards, here are some changes:
Defias Ringleader: You can swap him for Annoy-o-Tron for more control or for the 2 mana murloc that summons another murloc 1/1. Is not as strong but will give you presence on board and doesn't require combo.
Burgle: You could swap it for Sap or even Shadowstep, specially last one. Another good option it's Wild Pyromancer for more control.
Sabotage: If you don't have it, use Assassinate, or switch it for Sludge Belcher for midgame control.
Harrison Jones: Sylvanas Windrunner is the best option and will give you more board presence and control at midgame and in lategame she can give you an important enemy minion turning the tables. Azure Drake may help you with board clear thanks to the Spell Damage and you'll get better card draw.
The Black Knight: It could be changed for another Sunwalker or Sludge Belcher. It's not even close the utility they give, but they may help you hold the midgame.
Troggzor the Earthinator: Another core card and core legen. You could switch him for Baron Geddon or Alexstrasza. You'll lose a lot of spell control, but you'll win in threat or board clean and survival.
Ragnaros the Firelord: You can change him for Ysera, or, if you don't have her either, Nefarian could help both in a big body threat and improving our weapons with two new spells.
Anub'arak: Same as above, you can change him for Ysera or Nefarian. They do not provide as much late game presence as Anub, but they are also very good.
Dr. Boom: If you do not own Dr. Boom, I would play Trade Prince Gallywix without any doubt. Amazing spell control and really helpfull thanks to his 5/8 body.
Sunwalker: If you do not have any copy of Sunwalker, change her for a Sludge Belcher.
UPDATES
20/09/2015 - +1 Bloodmage Thalnos, +1 Azure Drake, -1 Dark Iron Skulker, -1Burgle --> Got rid of un Skulker (enough removal and AoE damage) and a Burgle to get more card draw and spell damage to combo.
20/09/2015 - 10 upvotes!! Mulligan section updated! Thanks for all the support guys!!
22/09/2015 - 31 upvotes!! What if I don't have secion updated! Thank you so much for the support and let's make it to the main page! Also, there has been a change in the deck!
+1 Ragnaros the Firelord, -1 Anub'arak --> Trying some games with Ragnaros instead of Anub since 4/5 times Anub is eating some freeze shit or things like that and he ends needing 2 or 3 turns to be useful while Ragnaros helps the moment you play him.
24/09/2015 - Update with latest changes. At the moment the deck is working better than ever. Less RnG, good card draw and better board presence.
-1 Sludge Belcher, -1 Cutpurse, -1 Sap, -1 Azure Drake, -1 Assassinate, -2 Beneath the Grounds, -1 Defias Ringleader], -1 [card]Trade Prince Gallywix, -1 [/card]Anub'ar Ambusher[/card], +1 Burgle, +1 Sprint, +1 Anub'arak, +1 Harrison Jones, +1 Big Game Hunter, +1 Sunwalker, +1Dr. Boom, +1 Kezan Mystic, +1 The Black Knight, +1Blade Flurry
25/09/2015 - What if I don't have section updated!! - Following some advice from you guys, I'm testing a -1 Kezan Mystic, -1 Sprint, +2Shadowstep - It's working nicely, it improves the survival when returning Healbot to hand and our control with Loatheb, Harrison or TBK. Still thinking about which other card could I change it for since Sprint is a good addition for late game card draw.
Thank you all for reading, and please, if you like it, upvote and help me stay in front page!!
I'll write Mulligan section when we reach 10 votes and What if I don't have section when we reach 25 votes.
Feel free to comment, I'll answer every comment you write, promised!
I do not want to disappoint you but I do not see no way this deck work on the ladder competitively, I will explain why I think so but making it clear that is just my opinion and I can even be wrong.
Trade Prince Gallywix : This card is unplayable since appeared Flamewaker and usually it most helps your opponent than you, the only way it really have an impact on the game is you are way ahead on board and your opponent will not be able to use removal, but I'd say that "never" happen to this deck.
Anub'ar Ambusher: This card is garbage and i think will never see play, unfortunately.You speak as if she had not drawback but I disagree obviously or she already have been played before, it's very easy to play around and even if you can return something good for your hand you will be losing Tempo doing it. There are many other better options for you to use in that spot.
Cutpurse: Pretty weak body but huge effect,as you said he always eat a removal and trades well with others 2 drop but it will be enough to for this card on the deck? Since the Cutpurse is usually used in a heavy deck with heavy mana curve with Combo cards or interaction with spells like Shado-pan Cavalary or Violet Teacher, I can not see it being useful in your deck and also do not think it is good enough for competitive. PS: I'm testing it since the first day that TGT was released.
Assassinate This card is absolutely garbage and more without preparation on the deck, paid 5 mana and lose Tempo. Would much rather you use the second Blade Flurry here or something like that.
Beneath the Grounds This card is BAD every player I've seen trying to make it work failed , only can do something with Coldlight Oracle and still remains a situational card, in most cases you will pay 3mana and will not do anything, and the dream would proc 3 ambushes in a row then but this is only dream.
Defias Ringleader Typically used in extremely aggressive decks to divide Threats at the beginning of the game,again I see not being good enough for ladder except on aggro archtype and even then there are better options.
I wanted to see a gameplay of this deck to take better conclusions but this is my opinion.
I think you forget the point of this deck. This isn't a tempo deck, this is a control deck. Tempo means just about nothing in a deck where your goal is to control the board and just about nothing else. You go on and on about how all these cards are bad because they are a loss of tempo. Well guess what, this deck isn't about tempo and will generally last long enough for these "tempo losses" to make little difference.
Also learn to spell, its disgraceful.
Look Dreu, is really hard to say I would have to test the deck as I am doing with my Dragon Rogue (Control) insatiably, are a number of things that you need to test on the ladder of course, is not simple to create a new archetype for Rogue from one day to another requires much effort and dedication and know how to choose the right cards according to the metagame and their changes,
Honestly, can be wrong but I do not think this deck works well to compete in the ladder against the meta decks but have you ever noticed that want to make a video, we see better how the deck works in action.
First I'd probably trade anub for Piloted Shredder Gallywix for Assassin's Blade and Troggzor for Dr. Boom, Beneath the Grounds for another Burgle and Blade Flurry i dont think you have enough AoE then it would be good. also BGH is very necessary, is too good against Fel Reaver, Dr. Boom Avenge + Mysterious Challenger etc...
Good lucky bro!
Scary amount of 1-ofs in this deck.
I mean it looks very inconsistent because of the fact it has so many single-copies of cards.
you know 1 of...the card
Hey man I was just curious to pick your brain about a few card picks since I tried to make a slower Anub'arak deck similar to Crusher Shaman. Do you think Cutpurse is worth it? It's only a 2mana 2/2body so I'm not convinced it trades well enough to merit 2 spots, I could understand the coins being useful to proc your Combo cards, but it says only when it attacks a Hero do you get one, it just seems a bit inconsistent. Perhaps Loot Hoarder or Acolyte of Pain? Since you mentioned the deck struggled with draw. Maybe even Earthen Ring Farseer?
I'm just spitballing though, the deck I made used Emperor Thaurissan as a 6 drop as well as Kel'Thuzad, to try and get Anub out earlier, then just get a ton of value out of him by means of KT. Do you think this is a viable way to try and play him? I feel like Rogue has trouble with a more minion control based board, just cause they don't have a lot of late game threats like Tyrion and Antonidas. Which need to be immediately dealt with, but then again I'm not the most well versed with Rogue so I could easily be wrong.
Thanks for the read, and cool deck! :D
Yea you are definitely right, I tried playing around with this, personally I like having just the 1 Cutpurse. I've had great mulligan luck and had it in my starting hand every time and it works well, I'm just debating running 2 Burgles now because it feels like a Thoughtsteal with a larger pool. Used it vs a warrior and got Iron Juggernaut and Grommash lol, so satisfying.
Probably gonna replace the other Cutpurse with a Autobarber, just cause I feel like it squeezes a bit more value out of your weapon, as well as Blade Flurry.
Only one other question, why not run Edwin Vancleef? Is it because the lack of preparations dont make for as big a Cleef as with other Oil decks?
Again thanks for the response and input, enjoying the deck a lot , Burgle rules lmao. XD
lookin to try this deck out once i get the legendaries for it, does it fend well in ladder? and if so whats the highest rank anyones gotten with it so far :o
Ty for the reply. The deck looks hella fun. I def dont agree with the beneath the grounds choice although it makes sense since this is a control deck that can stall out until those cards are drawn. I'll definatly be checkin up on this deck alot seeing how u improve it since it looks like alot of fun :).
Have you considered trying Zombie Chow, Refreshment Vendor and Shado-Pan Rider in this deck? I have tried it myself and I think that Zombie Chow is pretty good in this aggressive meta and it also has synergy with Refreshment Vendor and Shado-Pan Cavalry.
Refreshment Vendor is also a nice substitution for Antique Healbot since his Battlecry helps you more than your opponent in the midgame since the rogue has usually taken more damage at that point. He also fills a nice hole in the curve and has a body that can compete with early game minions.
I haven't played too much with Shado-Pan Rider, but I think it might be good, because of the great synergy with Cutpurse and Zombie Chow. Similarly to Dark Iron Skulker, two copies of Shado-Pan Rider might be too much, because it's a bit expensive and situational.
How do you deal with Paladin decks?
As much as I love the idea of a control rogue and using cards like anub arak and beneath the grounds. It feels like it lacks sustain. Rogue is one of the most face damage oriented classes in the game because of their hero power. And since you don't have armor like warriors, secrets like mages and pallies or healing spells like priest, druid and shaman, I feel like the deck would benefit from having more healing minions. One antique healbot just doesn't feel like its enough in a metagame that's swarming with cancerous aggro decks.
This deck is missing one thing, that's card draw, the games ive lost are from lack of cards and getting overwhelmed by the enemies amount of cards and having no answers. I think 1 sprint is very necessary. Or for a more control card, Harrison!
Ok let's get this out right. This looks like an amazingly well made deck. I've seen tons of "control rogue" theory crafting decks since the start of TGT and this seems to be the first one that has a chance of succeeding. Its clear that you didn't whip this together in 2 minutes and post this up. You spent a lot of time working on. I'm still very curious on the actually performance of the deck but its looking really nice. I unfortunately can't jump on this deck just yet because Im a free to play scrub without all the new TGT cards. Im liking the potential though. Is this the deck that brings rogue back? maybe. We'll have to see.
I think you may have misunderstood my reasoning why Im not choosing this deck to run (which thinking back on it, it'd be hard for you to understand just from my comment). I am not jumping on this deck because I do not know replacements for the cards I don't have in this deck (Anub'arak, Trade Prince Gallywix, Beneath the Grounds) its because I personally think that not having those cards would not only drop the win rate of the deck, it would also make the deck less fun to play and it would make it less of what it's trying to represent. Im thankful that you're willing to be such an interactive deck author with the people who've found your deck and are so willing to help find replacements because let's face it, most of us don't buy 420 packs at the start of an expansion, but until I either find enough dust to make the cards that makes this deck unique and good or until this deck possibly inevitably stops performing well, Im gonna just sit back, watch it be fine tuned, and wait for the time to come where Blizzard is being harassed by players to nerf Anub'arak. that'll happen someday right? :3
Excellent deck!
I've recently been trying out a similar control deck running two Ambushers and things like Patient Assassin or Valiant instead of Ringleader. Your deck has definitely been working out better for me though!
This list looks pretty interesting, I haven't seen anyone make a successful non- oil rogue deck since tgt. I'll have to try it out when I get the cards.